The book of Job

[reneweddaybyday]

I guess you could say Job honored God with his lips, but his heart was far from God.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

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[tttallison]

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

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Job did not say anything right until after he confessed that he was vile and abhorred himself. That was when his true faith made him whole.

God never said the three friends said anything wrong. God was saying that they had not said what was right with God as Job had at the end. Eliphaz's words are the only ones that are quoted as scripture in the New Testament.

 

[christophernyc]

Are we both agreeing that God is talking about leviathan, the serpent, who is king over all the children of pride, and it is Job who God is talking to.

Yes, of course. That's not what's in dispute.

I am not confusing subjects. Both Moses and Job were speaking of how great their words were. The difference was Moses was attributing those great words to his great God, while Job was attributing his great words to how great Job was.

What I wrote was that you are confusing the subjects in chapter 41. God calls leviathan the king of the children of pride, not Job. Confusing the subjects was not in reference to your Job / Moses comparison.

Regarding the Job / Moses comparison what I wrote is that you are conflating two different contexts.

You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of that chapter.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

Do you see?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Job did not say anything right until after he confessed that he was vile and abhorred himself. That was when his true faith made him whole.

Job was a man of faith (Job 1:1). According to God Himself, Job believed God (Job 1:8; 2:3).

Job said:

Job 19:25-27

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

you make the same claim about yourself that Job made about himself (that you know your Redeemer lives and He will stand upon the earth in the latter day; that if you die before that day and your body decays, you shall see God for yourself with your own eyes) yet when Job said those words, it was not "true faith" ???

Job's words reveal a deep conviction of faith on his part ... not pride, as you keep insisting was Job's problem.

God never said the three friends said anything wrong. God was saying that they had not said what was right with God as Job had at the end.

Interesting that "they had not said what was right with God" ... yet you hold the words of Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu as the only words in the book of Job that are not "wrong".

Eliphaz's words are the only ones that are quoted as scripture in the New Testament.

so? Eliphaz was commanded by God to make offering of seven bullocks and seven rams (Job 42:8). Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar were not restored to fellowship with God until Job prayed for them.

If none of them had erred, there would have been no need to make an offering ... and if they had not made the offering, God would have dealt with them "after [their] folly".

.

 

[tttallison]

Yes, of course. That's not what's in dispute.

What I wrote was that you are confusing the subjects in chapter 41. God calls leviathan the king of the children of pride, not Job. Confusing the subjects was not in reference to your Job / Moses comparison.

Regarding the Job / Moses comparison what I wrote is that you are conflating two different contexts.

You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of that chapter.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

Do you see?

Not confused about the serpent. God asked Job if he was going to take the serpent for a servant forever. The serpent is the king over all the children of pride. Can't you see the implication?

Job said, "My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down."

Moses said, "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." (No conflation, just one man glorifying God, and another glorifying himself.)

In regards to chapter nine, are you implying that if a man says twenty good things about God, and only ten bad things about God, then it all equals out?

 

[tttallison]

Job was a man of faith (Job 1:1). According to God Himself, Job believed God (Job 1:8; 2:3).

Job said:

Job 19:25-27

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

you make the same claim about yourself that Job made about himself (that you know your Redeemer lives and He will stand upon the earth in the latter day; that if you die before that day and your body decays, you shall see God for yourself with your own eyes) yet when Job said those words, it was not "true faith" ???

Job's words reveal a deep conviction of faith on his part ... not pride, as you keep insisting was Job's problem.





Interesting that "they had not said what was right with God" ... yet you hold the words of Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu as the only words in the book of Job that are not "wrong".





so? Eliphaz was commanded by God to make offering of seven bullocks and seven rams (Job 42:8). Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar were not restored to fellowship with God until Job prayed for them.

If none of them had erred, there would have been no need to make an offering ... and if they had not made the offering, God would have dealt with them "after [their] folly".

.

You presented Job 19:25-27 as examples of Job's faith, but I believe they are merely words that Job hopes for, but has no confidence of.

Here are some words from his heart. Job 9:24The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he? And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?

In Deu 32:20 God said, And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. In this verse God is speaking to the upright one, Jeshurun, the apple of his eye. Notice that God hid his face from them because of sin. Then notice that God also hid his face from Job. Job 13:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?

My bible says that the three friends did not say "the thing that is right". Actually there is only one Hebrew word to be found here, and it is most often translated prepare(85x) and establish(58x). God tells us that Job spoke without knowledge, so we are left to determine what and when Job said something right. The obvious answer should be his repentance at the end of the book.

Why was it that Job should plead for his friends? Wasn't it because Job had requested someone to plead for him. Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

Notice that Job was also accepted at the end. Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You presented Job 19:25-27 as examples of Job's faith, but I believe they are merely words that Job hopes for, but has no confidence of.

r-i-g-h-t ... when you speak the same words Job does, you're stating them "in faith", but for Job the words are wishful thinking on his part.

Job spoke of his Redeemer as being alive during his day, as well as "at the latter day". This reveals Job's belief in an eternal reality.

Job also spoke of his own death, demise, and resurrection ... that he would be able to visibly see God with his own eyes in his resurrected body.

When you speak of the new body you will be clothed with, do you believe your words are "merely words that [you] hope for" ... words you have "no confidence" of?

Here are some words from his heart. Job 9:24The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he? And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?

I have already explained to you that Job and his friends knew nothing about satan. Even at the end of Job's affliction, after God blessed him with much more than he had before satan's attack, Job's friends and family still said God brought "evil" upon him:

Job 42:10-11

10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

God did not bring evil upon Job. satan was the one who brought evil against Job.

In Deu 32:20 God said, And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. In this verse God is speaking to the upright one, Jeshurun, the apple of his eye. Notice that God hid his face from them because of sin.

God was not speaking to Jeshurun. God was speaking to Moses about Jeshurun.

God partially removed His hedge from around Job ... God watched over Job while he was going through the turmoil brought on by satan. The only reason God partially removed His hedge was so that satan had no leg to stand on in his claim that the only reason Job worshipped God was because God had a hedge around him. God partially removing the hedge had nothing to do with sin on the part of Job.

Then notice that God also hid his face from Job. Job 13:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?

Those were Job's words ... not God's words.

Job asked God to reveal to him whatever iniquities and/or sins he had committed so that he could make offering to God. However, there was no sin. He had no idea he was under attack from satan for no other reason than satan is who he is.

We have the privilege of knowing about our adversary ... however, Job and his friends did not know about satan and that is why they all believed God was chastening Job for some sort of sin on the part of Job.

My bible says that the three friends did not say "the thing that is right". Actually there is only one Hebrew word to be found here, and it is most often translated prepare(85x) and establish(58x). God tells us that Job spoke without knowledge, so we are left to determine what and when Job said something right. The obvious answer should be his repentance at the end of the book.

All of them ... Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu ... spoke some truth and some error. With the exception of the first couple chapters and the last several chapters, the whole book reveals discussion between the 5 men.

All their discussions were based upon a faulty premise because the 4 friends believed Job was being chastened for some sort of sin ... and Job defended himself against their error while at the same time feeling he had been abandoned by God.

However, God had not abandoned Job. God was careful to watch that satan did not take Job's life.

Why was it that Job should plead for his friends? Wasn't it because Job had requested someone to plead for him. Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

Job was vindicated by God ... Job was proven correct in his defense against the false accusations of his friends.

Notice that Job was also accepted at the end. Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

read the verses, tttallison:

Job 42:7-9

7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

Eliphas, Bildad, and Zophar offered up the burnt offerings as God commanded and God accepted their offerings. God also accepted the prayer Job made on behalf of his friends.


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[christophernyc]

Not confused about the serpent. God asked Job if he was going to take the serpent for a servant forever. The serpent is the king over all the children of pride. Can't you see the implication?

Can you please state what you believe the implication is exactly?

Job said, "My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down."

Moses said, "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." (No conflation, just one man glorifying God, and another glorifying himself.)

So you are repeating the same point without any acknowledgement of the context. You had no response to the substance of the context pointed out to you. Is that because it proves your theory wrong? Yes, that seems to be the case.

Here is that context again for you from post #343.

(begin)
You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of that chapter.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.
(end)

This passage alone disproves your entire theory about Job being “lost” and “self-righteous”. Like Moses, Job too gives glory to God.

I would encourage you to base your interpretation of this story on what is actually written in the book and the actual context in which those words are written.

 

[ZNP]

Prophecy of Methuselah

"When he dies it shall come" or "his death shall send".

There is a very important prophesy concerning the Days of Noah and therefore concerning the rapture. It is the prophecy of Methuselah, he lived 969 years and died the year of the flood. Now there are two ways to calculate years, generally it is understood that a prophetic year is 360 days, a little shorter than the 365.25 days of our years.

If we subtract 969 years from 2026 we get either 1069 or 1071 depending on which formula we use.

So then what major thing concerning the church was born at that time which would "die" the year the tribulation begins? It turns out that

"Freedom of the church" was first born at that time.

2 Kings 11:1 And when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal. 2 But Jehosheba, the daughter of king Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king's sons which were slain; and they hid him, even him and his nurse, in the bedchamber from Athaliah, so that he was not slain. 3 And he was with her hid in the house of the Lord six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

Joash a king was hidden for six years, and then brought out to reign when he was seven. In 1077 there was a Papal Bull declaring this doctrine of "freedom of religion": the theory of freedom of religion of ecclesiastical authority of the Catholic Church from secular or the temporal power, that is, the freedom to accomplish its spiritual mission without interference from any secular power.

Clearly that will die when Antichrist is revealed and takes power. If this is the modern analog to Methuselah, then Methuselah being 7 in 1077 fits perfectly with the year of 2026 being the start of the tribulation and the year that the Antichrist is revealed. If freedom of religion has been restraining the Antichrist from being revealed, and if the rapture is "when we go up the fallen angels are sent down" then it makes sense that when the rapture takes place freedom of religion will die, and that will send the judgement.

Ken Johnson Just Connected the Fig Tree to the 120th Cycle… This Changes Everything​

 

[christophernyc]

Prophecy of Methuselah

"When he dies it shall come" or "his death shall send".

There is a very important prophesy concerning the Days of Noah and therefore concerning the rapture. It is the prophecy of Methuselah, he lived 969 years and died the year of the flood. Now there are two ways to calculate years, generally it is understood that a prophetic year is 360 days, a little shorter than the 365.25 days of our years.

If we subtract 969 years from 2026 we get either 1069 or 1071 depending on which formula we use.

So then what major thing concerning the church was born at that time which would "die" the year the tribulation begins? It turns out that

"Freedom of the church" was first born at that time.

2 Kings 11:1 And when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal. 2 But Jehosheba, the daughter of king Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king's sons which were slain; and they hid him, even him and his nurse, in the bedchamber from Athaliah, so that he was not slain. 3 And he was with her hid in the house of the Lord six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

Joash a king was hidden for six years, and then brought out to reign when he was seven. In 1077 there was a Papal Bull declaring this doctrine of "freedom of religion": the theory of freedom of religion of ecclesiastical authority of the Catholic Church from secular or the temporal power, that is, the freedom to accomplish its spiritual mission without interference from any secular power.

Clearly that will die when Antichrist is revealed and takes power. If this is the modern analog to Methuselah, then Methuselah being 7 in 1077 fits perfectly with the year of 2026 being the start of the tribulation and the year that the Antichrist is revealed. If freedom of religion has been restraining the Antichrist from being revealed, and if the rapture is "when we go up the fallen angels are sent down" then it makes sense that when the rapture takes place freedom of religion will die, and that will send the judgement.

Ken Johnson Just Connected the Fig Tree to the 120th Cycle… This Changes Everything​

Did you mean to post this in another thread? What is the relevance of this to the discussion on Job? Can you explain why you posted it here?

 

[tttallison]

r-i-g-h-t ... when you speak the same words Job does, you're stating them "in faith", but for Job the words are wishful thinking on his part.

Job spoke of his Redeemer as being alive during his day, as well as "at the latter day". This reveals Job's belief in an eternal reality.

Job also spoke of his own death, demise, and resurrection ... that he would be able to visibly see God with his own eyes in his resurrected body.

When you speak of the new body you will be clothed with, do you believe your words are "merely words that [you] hope for" ... words you have "no confidence" of?

.

Job said, my redeemer liveth, and that he should see God in the flesh. That was Job's hope, but did Job have faith in that hope?

Job said, Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?

Job said, Job 14:19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.

Job said, Job 17:15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it?

Job said, Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Why did Job think that he salvation was for him? Was it because God was a fair judge, or was it because Job had earned it?

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

The following verses are the similarities and the difference between David and Job.

Psa 38:1 A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.

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Psa 38:2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.

Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

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Psa 38:3There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.

Job 19:20 My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.

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Psa 38:4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

Job 19:7 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.

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Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.

Job 19:17 My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children's sake of mine own body.

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Psa 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.

Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.
Psa 38:7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.

Job 7:5 My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.

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Psa 38:11 My lovers and my friends stand aloof from my sore; and my kinsmen stand afar off.

Job 19:14 My kinsfolk have failed, and my familiar friends have forgotten me.

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Psa 38:15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God.

Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

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Psa 38:22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

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Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.

Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.

Psa 38:18 For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

 

[ZNP]

Did you mean to post this in another thread? What is the relevance of this to the discussion on Job? Can you explain why you posted it here?

Yes, my mistake

 

[christophernyc]

Yes, my mistake

No worries! It looks very interesting nonetheless

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Job said, my redeemer liveth, and that he should see God in the flesh. That was Job's hope, but did Job have faith in that hope?

do you have faith in that hope when you say it? If so, why is your claim based in faith but Job's claim is not?

Job said, Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?

see the words "my strength"? Job had no hope in his own strength or ability to prolong his life.

Job thought he was dying and Job stated in vs 10 that if he died, he would find comfort. Job knew he would see his Redeemer ... just as you know that if you die, you will see your Redeemer.

Job said, Job 14:19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.

Job points to the complete inability of man to prevail against God.

and, again, Job was not aware that satan was the cause of all his distress.

Job said, Job 17:15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it?

Job had put up with his friends who had done nothing but mock him because he rejected their faulty premise in insisting that he had sinned and when Job insisted he had not sinned, his friends continued haranguing him rather than joining with him in prayer for relief.

Look at Job 17:3-4:

Job 17:3-4 Lay down now, put me in a surety with thee; who is he that will strike hands with me? For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them.

In vs 3, Job implored God to be surety for him and in vs 4, Job understood that God hid understanding concerning his present dilemma from his friends and, in the end, God exalted them (restored fellowship) only after they brought burnt offerings and Job prayed for them (Job 42:7-9).

Job said, Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Job attributed his dilemma to God because he did not know that he was under attack from satan. Job knew he could not fight against God. Job knew no one could stand against God.

You believe that the words "mine hope hath he removed like a tree" refers to the hope Job had concerning his Redeemer and the fact that Job knew he would see his Redeemer after he was resurrected.

However, consider that the hope Job referred to related to Job living out his life in the peace and tranquility he had enjoyed prior to satan's attack. All hope for that life was now shattered ... although in the end God did right by Job and God blessed Job's latter end more than his beginning. God is so, so good!!!

Why did Job think that he salvation was for him? Was it because God was a fair judge, or was it because Job had earned it?

God already told you why ... repeated 3 times (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3):

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

How many times does God have to tell you something before you believe Him?

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

already discussed ... here and here.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job was responding to the incessant claims by his friends that he was living in sin.

How would you respond to someone who insists you're living in sin when you're not? Would you agree with that person, even though you haven't sinned? ... and if you did agree, would that be a sin (because it would be a lie)?

Read the verses before vs 6:

Job 27:2-6

2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;

3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

4 My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

5 God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.

6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

The following verses are the similarities and the difference between David and Job.

the difference between what David wrote and what Job wrote is that David was speaking directly to God while Job was responding to the faulty accusations of his friends.

Read the book of Job the same as if you were reading through the pages of one of the threads here. You've got folks who know certain truths concerning a particular subject in Scripture and you've got folks who do not know so much ... or folks who have been tossed to and fro by a wind of doctrine sown through cunning craftiness of those who are deceitful. This is what you observe in reading the book of Job. All of them (Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu) made some amazing, insightful statements ... and all of them made some statements in error.

In addition, the fact that none of them knew Job was under attack from satan ... so the friends thought Job was being chastened for a sin he had committed and for which he needed to repent ... while Job asked God to reveal to him what sin he had committed so he could repent.

.

 

[tttallison]

do you have faith in that hope when you say it? If so, why is your claim based in faith but Job's claim is not?





see the words "my strength"? Job had no hope in his own strength or ability to prolong his life.

Job thought he was dying and Job stated in vs 10 that if he died, he would find comfort. Job knew he would see his Redeemer ... just as you know that if you die, you will see your Redeemer.





Job points to the complete inability of man to prevail against God.

and, again, Job was not aware that satan was the cause of all his distress.





Job had put up with his friends who had done nothing but mock him because he rejected their faulty premise in insisting that he had sinned and when Job insisted he had not sinned, his friends continued haranguing him rather than joining with him in prayer for relief.

Look at Job 17:3-4:

Job 17:3-4 Lay down now, put me in a surety with thee; who is he that will strike hands with me? For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them.

In vs 3, Job implored God to be surety for him and in vs 4, Job understood that God hid understanding concerning his present dilemma from his friends and, in the end, God exalted them (restored fellowship) only after they brought burnt offerings and Job prayed for them (Job 42:7-9).





Job attributed his dilemma to God because he did not know that he was under attack from satan. Job knew he could not fight against God. Job knew no one could stand against God.

You believe that the words "mine hope hath he removed like a tree" refers to the hope Job had concerning his Redeemer and the fact that Job knew he would see his Redeemer after he was resurrected.

However, consider that the hope Job referred to related to Job living out his life in the peace and tranquility he had enjoyed prior to satan's attack. All hope for that life was now shattered ... although in the end God did right by Job and God blessed Job's latter end more than his beginning. God is so, so good!!!





God already told you why ... repeated 3 times (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3):

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

How many times does God have to tell you something before you believe Him?





already discussed ... here and here.





Job was responding to the incessant claims by his friends that he was living in sin.

How would you respond to someone who insists you're living in sin when you're not? Would you agree with that person, even though you haven't sinned? ... and if you did agree, would that be a sin (because it would be a lie)?

Read the verses before vs 6:

Job 27:2-6

2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;

3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

4 My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

5 God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.

6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.





the difference between what David wrote and what Job wrote is that David was speaking directly to God while Job was responding to the faulty accusations of his friends.

Read the book of Job the same as if you were reading through the pages of one of the threads here. You've got folks who know certain truths concerning a particular subject in Scripture and you've got folks who do not know so much ... or folks who have been tossed to and fro by a wind of doctrine sown through cunning craftiness of those who are deceitful. This is what you observe in reading the book of Job. All of them (Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu) made some amazing, insightful statements ... and all of them made some statements in error.

In addition, the fact that none of them knew Job was under attack from satan ... so the friends thought Job was being chastened for a sin he had committed and for which he needed to repent ... while Job asked God to reveal to him what sin he had committed so he could repent.

.

How does a vile person have integrity?

Elihu had spoke for six chapters, without God, or anyone else, having anything negative to say about Elihu? While God spoke evilly of Job and his three friends.

 

[tttallison]

God already told you why ... repeated 3 times (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3):

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

How many times does God have to tell you something before you believe Him?

.

The question was, why did Job think he had salvation just because God said Job was blameless and upright? And if it is true that Job was already saved, why was it that Job wasn't accepted until after he made intercession for his friends? What does it mean to be accepted by God?

If I said to you, will you condemn me so that you can look good, what would your response be?

 

[christophernyc]

The question was, why did Job think he had salvation just because God said Job was blameless and upright? And if it is true that Job was already saved, why was it that Job wasn't accepted until after he made intercession for his friends? What does it mean to be accepted by God?

If I said to you, will you condemn me so that you can look good, what would your response be?

Another grievous error here. The pattern I see in your interpretation is that you get hung up on certain words. This time it's with the word "accepted". The Hebrew word is Strong's #5375 "nasa" or "nasah" which can mean:

NASB: lifted, lift, bear, take, carried, carry, took

Once again **context**. Reread Job 42:6 just prior to Job 42:9. Job was "in dust and ashes" --- on the ground --- and God lifted him up. Up to this point in his ordeal, Job was convinced he soon on his way to death. However, God restored him, gave him life, and lifted him up.

Then, in the next verse Job 42:10 God restores Job's fortunes. See? Remember the beginning of the story? Job lost his possessions first. Then Job lost his health second. Now it's going in reverse. God restores Job's health first. Then God restores his possessions second.

By the way, I don't believe you had any answer to the remarks regarding Job 29:1-5. This passage alone disproves your theory that Job is "lost" and "self-righteous".

Additionally, God refers to Job as "My servant" every single time when referring to him.

Your words are in opposition to God's words.

 

[tttallison]

Another grievous error here. The pattern I see in your interpretation is that you get hung up on certain words. This time it's with the word "accepted". The Hebrew word is Strong's #5375 "nasa" or "nasah" which can mean:

NASB: lifted, lift, bear, take, carried, carry, took

Once again **context**. Reread Job 42:6 just prior to Job 42:9. Job was "in dust and ashes" --- on the ground --- and God lifted him up. Up to this point in his ordeal, Job was convinced he soon on his way to death. However, God restored him, gave him life, and lifted him up.

Then, in the next verse Job 42:10 God restores Job's fortunes. See? Remember the beginning of the story? Job lost his possessions first. Then Job lost his health second. Now it's going in reverse. God restores Job's health first. Then God restores his possessions second.

By the way, I don't believe you had any answer to the remarks regarding Job 29:1-5. This passage alone disproves your theory that Job is "lost" and "self-righteous".

Additionally, God refers to Job as "My servant" every single time when referring to him.

Your words are in opposition to God's words.

Our bibles read differently, although your bible does have "accepted" in Job 42:9. My bible was translated from many manuscripts written in a variety of languages. I believe yours was possibly derived from one manuscript.

In regards to Job 29:1-5.----From your take, sometimes Job has it all wrong, and other times he has it all right. How do you determine when he is right, and when he is wrong, considering Job was without knowledge?

Yes Job was God's servant, but then so was Nebuchadnezzar. Job indicated he was a hired servant, similar to a mercenary. Hired servants can have more than one master, but they can't partake of the Passover Lamb. God indicated Job was making, or thinking about making, a covenant with the serpent.

Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

What does the bible say about having two masters?

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[JayWalker]

Ken Johnson Just Connected the Fig Tree to the 120th Cycle… This Changes Everything

So what are you going to do if the world goes on as it has been for another 50 or 60 years?

These end times guys are always trying to come out with outlandish claims to sell books, get more clicks, or more donations so one should grab a grain of salt each time one of these guys claim "this changes everything"

We all should be living as though these are the last days because no matter how we slice it these are OUR last days as each of us are getting closer to death daily.

 

[christophernyc]

So what are you going to do if the world goes on as it has been for another 50 or 60 years?

These end times guys are always trying to come out with outlandish claims to sell books, get more clicks, or more donations so one should grab a grain of salt each time one of these guys claim "this changes everything"

We all should be living as though these are the last days because no matter how we slice it these are OUR last days as each of us are getting closer to death daily.

Wrong thread, brother. Try again.​