Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

[tttallison]

Yes the “apacalypse “ or the “ revelation” is pretty open to interpretation . It’s why I was wondering if you I or about any ag trust teachings that we could read explaining Jesus return where anyone mentions a thousand year earthly riegn ? Doctrine isn’t really able to be interpreted in many ways it just sort of says what it says.

i was curious is you were basing it on a teaching from the New Testament that teaches us about a thousand year riegn on earth before Jesus destroys it when he returns from heaven as he promised to do to gather his people and take them home .

It seems to me we are waiting for Jesus to return from heaven and raise up the dead saving those who belong to him before he destroys the wicked with this earth.

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

…. but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…..Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


aim just struggling with there not being any person in the Bible who was ever teaching this but rather it seems to be created from that verse in revelation which as you say it can be interpreted many ways ….it seems as if someone would have taught this very important event like they always do when they do teach us what we are waiting for

Do we agree that this is still what we are waiting for ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m wondering where the millennium fits in the doctrine

I believe the bible is meant to be taken literal, except where parables are found, and it is clear that it is a parable. A thousand years is a thousand years, and 490 years is 490 years, not 490 plus 2,000 years. We shouldn't try to make the bible fit our narrative.

I believe the earth to be about six thousand years old, and make no apology. You know that the bible states that earth is stationary and I believe that.

Prior to the 6th Century it was accepted as fact that the earth was the center of the Universe, and then came Copernicus. Copernicus decided the sun was the center of the Universe, and that idea has been accepted universally ever since, in spite of empirical evidence to the contrary. They sent up three space probes to map the microwave background radiation, the first being somewhere around 1995. All three probes had the same anomaly which showed the Universe to be aligned with the axis of the earth.

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist/cosmologist with enough respect in his field to call Stephen Hawking, three Noble lauerates, as well as many top cosmologists, experimentalists, theorists, and particle physicists to a convention with the topic being "Confronting Gravity".

At that convention Lawrence made this statement. "But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

They call this finding "The Axis of Evil", because if true, most of their scientific theories are out the window.

The millennium equals the seventh day, the day God rested. Peter said one day is as a thousand years to God. That was when Peter was referencing the beginning of creation. The Jews believe we are appointed 6 thousand years and then a thousand years of rest.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe the bible is meant to be taken literal, except where parables are found, and it is clear that it is a parable. A thousand years is a thousand years, and 490 years is 490 years, not 490 plus 2,000 years. We shouldn't try to make the bible fit our narrative.

I believe the earth to be about six thousand years old, and make no apology. You know that the bible states that earth is stationary and I believe that.

Prior to the 6th Century it was accepted as fact that the earth was the center of the Universe, and then came Copernicus. Copernicus decided the sun was the center of the Universe, and that idea has been accepted universally ever since, in spite of empirical evidence to the contrary. They sent up three space probes to map the microwave background radiation, the first being somewhere around 1995. All three probes had the same anomaly which showed the Universe to be aligned with the axis of the earth.

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist/cosmologist with enough respect in his field to call Stephen Hawking, three Noble lauerates, as well as many top cosmologists, experimentalists, theorists, and particle physicists to a convention with the topic being "Confronting Gravity".

At that convention Lawrence made this statement. "But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

They call this finding "The Axis of Evil", because if true, most of their scientific theories are out the window.

The millennium equals the seventh day, the day God rested. Peter said one day is as a thousand years to God. That was when Peter was referencing the beginning of creation. The Jews believe we are appointed 6 thousand years and then a thousand years of rest.

“believe the bible is meant to be taken literal, except where parables are found, and it is clear that it is a parable. “

Yeah I think that’s probably the disconnect . I see johns cushion as apacalypse which is it’s actual title …

So I’m not looking for a lamb with seven eyes but I know that is referencing ot prophecy about Christ the living stone with seven eyes and the lamb of God slain for sin ….

im not waiting for a giant seven headed beast to appear but rather I understand it’s apocalypse of ot prophecy like Daniel and his four beasts with seven heads and ten horns which actually aren’t beasts either but are kingdoms …. Ect

I think we’re probably looking at the whole book of revelation with different ideas


i appreciate the discussion though and God bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe the bible is meant to be taken literal, except where parables are found, and it is clear that it is a parable. A thousand years is a thousand years, and 490 years is 490 years, not 490 plus 2,000 years. We shouldn't try to make the bible fit our narrative.

I believe the earth to be about six thousand years old, and make no apology. You know that the bible states that earth is stationary and I believe that.

Prior to the 6th Century it was accepted as fact that the earth was the center of the Universe, and then came Copernicus. Copernicus decided the sun was the center of the Universe, and that idea has been accepted universally ever since, in spite of empirical evidence to the contrary. They sent up three space probes to map the microwave background radiation, the first being somewhere around 1995. All three probes had the same anomaly which showed the Universe to be aligned with the axis of the earth.

Lawrence Krauss, a physicist/cosmologist with enough respect in his field to call Stephen Hawking, three Noble lauerates, as well as many top cosmologists, experimentalists, theorists, and particle physicists to a convention with the topic being "Confronting Gravity".

At that convention Lawrence made this statement. "But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe."

They call this finding "The Axis of Evil", because if true, most of their scientific theories are out the window.

The millennium equals the seventh day, the day God rested. Peter said one day is as a thousand years to God. That was when Peter was referencing the beginning of creation. The Jews believe we are appointed 6 thousand years and then a thousand years of rest.

“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

literal ? Or do the details represent biblical doctrine established throughout the Bible ?

“behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, “

‭‭the messiah would come from the tribe of Judah , well established biblical doctrine genesis 49:8-10. Hebrews 7:14

“the Root of David, hath prevailed “

the messiah would be the son of David , well established biblical doctrine

Matthew 1:1, revelation 22:16

stood a Lamb as it had been slain,

Jesus the lamb of God (genesis 22:8 , John 1:29 . ) Was slain for the sins of the world …..

“having seven horns and seven eyes, “
this is referencing the messiah who zechariah calls “ the righteous BRANCH and likens to a living stone laid before joshue the high priest that would lead to the removal of iniquity and the sending of Gods spirit into the world

“Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭

The whole vision John is seeing is like that it’s made up of the things established throughout the Bible like “ the messiah would die for the sin of the world as an atoning sacrifice . That’s why John sees “ a lamb looking as if it had been slain yet lived and received power and glory “

there’s no literal lamb the lamb represents what the bible has already made very clear , in a vision that summarizes and makes sense of some things . then it also forecasts what is to come or what was to come beginning back in the first century when it was received .

Do you agree there’s no actual literal lamb ? But the lamb represents Jesus which we know because we’ve read the Bible ?


thats how to make real sense of revelations vision look at the big picture of the Bible’s story from the beginning concerning the messiah and Gods ultimate victory over evil and what he’s promised will last forever


theres really some cool stuff daniels visions really connect with johns second half well , Ezekiel and zechariah both hold sections of revelations apacalypse as well

things Moses said like the song he wrote and gave to the people is shown …many important and repetetive doctrinal points are revealed in the book . But only if we let other prior scripture make sense of it


here’s a simple yet pretty obvious example that speaks a bit about what I’m saying

zechariah saw a vision of a golden candlestick and by it stood two olive trees . This is what he’s told after he asked about it

“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:11, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In revelation John doesn’t ever see two olive trees ….. he’s being told something by an angel speaking for God and John references that this is what zechariah saw
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John didn’t see this he’s directly referencing what zechariah saw when he saw two candlesticks and two alive trees standing beside the golden candlestick being the lord and his two witnesses being seen more than seven hundred years before johns received his apacalypse.


the reason many people don’t grasp revelation is that you need to know the Bible first then the vision makes sense according to what’s already written beforehand pretty cool because that’s what reveals our future and ends the same way showing us what’s already been shown and promised for ages by the lord
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look for the doctrine beforehand is all I mean to say almost every chapter and subject in revelation is already established and often the meaning is plain like when he asked “ what are these two olive trees ? The angel answers him literally

but my point is what he had seen wasn’t literal Jesus isn’t actually a candlestick of gold , the two witnesses aren’t actually two olive trees ….just as Jesus isn’t literally a lamb with seven eyes and god doesn’t literally have seven spirits and horns . Those images mean something doctrinally

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is referencing israel it’s an image Joseph saw of jacobs whole clan in a dream before he was sold into slavery Jacob was the sun his wife the moon and the twelve stars represented his sons including Joseph. And later in prophecy god tells them it’s going to be like labor pains until the messiah comes ….

Pretty much the entire vision is laid out in scripture

 

[tttallison]

“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

literal ? Or do the details represent biblical doctrine established throughout the Bible ?

“behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, “

‭‭the messiah would come from the tribe of Judah , well established biblical doctrine genesis 49:8-10. Hebrews 7:14

“the Root of David, hath prevailed “

the messiah would be the son of David , well established biblical doctrine

Matthew 1:1, revelation 22:16

stood a Lamb as it had been slain,

Jesus the lamb of God (genesis 22:8 , John 1:29 . ) Was slain for the sins of the world …..

“having seven horns and seven eyes, “
this is referencing the messiah who zechariah calls “ the righteous BRANCH and likens to a living stone laid before joshue the high priest that would lead to the removal of iniquity and the sending of Gods spirit into the world

“Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭

The whole vision John is seeing is like that it’s made up of the things established throughout the Bible like “ the messiah would die for the sin of the world as an atoning sacrifice . That’s why John sees “ a lamb looking as if it had been slain yet lived and received power and glory “

there’s no literal lamb the lamb represents what the bible has already made very clear , in a vision that summarizes and makes sense of some things . then it also forecasts what is to come or what was to come beginning back in the first century when it was received .

Do you agree there’s no actual literal lamb ? But the lamb represents Jesus which we know because we’ve read the Bible ?


thats how to make real sense of revelations vision look at the big picture of the Bible’s story from the beginning concerning the messiah and Gods ultimate victory over evil and what he’s promised will last forever


theres really some cool stuff daniels visions really connect with johns second half well , Ezekiel and zechariah both hold sections of revelations apacalypse as well

things Moses said like the song he wrote and gave to the people is shown …many important and repetetive doctrinal points are revealed in the book . But only if we let other prior scripture make sense of it


here’s a simple yet pretty obvious example that speaks a bit about what I’m saying

zechariah saw a vision of a golden candlestick and by it stood two olive trees . This is what he’s told after he asked about it

“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:11, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In revelation John doesn’t ever see two olive trees ….. he’s being told something by an angel speaking for God and John references that this is what zechariah saw
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John didn’t see this he’s directly referencing what zechariah saw when he saw two candlesticks and two alive trees standing beside the golden candlestick being the lord and his two witnesses being seen more than seven hundred years before johns received his apacalypse.


the reason many people don’t grasp revelation is that you need to know the Bible first then the vision makes sense according to what’s already written beforehand pretty cool because that’s what reveals our future and ends the same way showing us what’s already been shown and promised for ages by the lord
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look for the doctrine beforehand is all I mean to say almost every chapter and subject in revelation is already established and often the meaning is plain like when he asked “ what are these two olive trees ? The angel answers him literally

but my point is what he had seen wasn’t literal Jesus isn’t actually a candlestick of gold , the two witnesses aren’t actually two olive trees ….just as Jesus isn’t literally a lamb with seven eyes and god doesn’t literally have seven spirits and horns . Those images mean something doctrinally

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is referencing israel it’s an image Joseph saw of jacobs whole clan in a dream before he was sold into slavery Jacob was the sun his wife the moon and the twelve stars represented his sons including Joseph. And later in prophecy god tells them it’s going to be like labor pains until the messiah comes ….

Pretty much the entire vision is laid out in scripture

Yes, the bible is full of metaphors, allegories, and parables, but the bible makes them distinguishable as such, as opposed to that which is to be taken literal. Take the trees in the garden as an example. To anyone who studies the bible it should be clear that the trees are a metaphor for beings, therefore one should realize that the fruit of those trees is not an apple or an orange, but rather a fruit that is derived from beings. God is not the author of confusion, but he does expect us to search the scriptures, for in them we think we have eternal life.

 

[ThunderPen]

I believe after the millennium that the second resurrection includes the Jews of Ezekiel chapter thirty seven

Ezekiel and Revelation are giving the same prophecy, in the same order.

Ezekiel 37:1-15 resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-24 reign
Ezekiel 38 and 39 Gog and Magog.

Revelation 20:1-5 resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 reign
Revelation 20:7-10 Gog and Magog.

The army of resurrected saints is mentioned in Ezekiel 37:9-10 and Revelation 19:14.
'And they stood up on their feet an exceedingly great army.' Ezekiel 37:10
'The armies in the sky followed Him on white horses' Revelation 19:14

( In Revelation 19:14 'which were' is an added in phrase that is not originally there, most Bibles will denote it as such by having it in italics )

And we see the same order in Isaiah.

Isaiah 26:19 resurrections.
Isaiah 27:1-2 slaying of two beasts.

Revelation 19:7-14 resurrections
Revelation 19:20-21 slaying of two beasts.

The prophecies taken together give us a full understanding.

There is only 1 return of the Lord, when He returns Israel's dead men shall rise, the dead in Christ shall rise, and any remaining alive believers will also be changed and caught up to be part of the Lords army, literally in the sky, in the clouds, coming down to reign with Christ for 1000 literal years.

 

[memberofthebride]

You have the wedding, you have the judgment, you have the end of the beast and the false prophet, you have the dragon locked up for a thousand years, you have the first resurrection, and you have the end of all living humanity that was not invited to the wedding. The only ones left on the earth are the dead who were not written in the book of life.

What think you?

"What think you?" ----That you do not understand the Plan of God.

Where is it written God puts to death all humans

Directly After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings on the Feast of Trumpets, to rule the entire earth with The rod of iron, the Second Exodus takes place. All of the 12 Tribes that survived the last 3 1/2 years make their way to Jerusalem to receive the promise God made to Abraham.

Jeremiah 16: 14 - 15

14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, ----that it shall - --- no more be said, ---The LORD liveth, ---- --- that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

15 But, -- The LORD liveth, -------that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither He had driven them: --------and I will bring them ---“again”--- into their land that I gave unto their fathers.


The 12 Tribes will be given the Promised Land, they will live in peace and even the nature of animals will changed

You have the wedding, you have the judgment, you have the end of the beast and the false prophet, you have the dragon locked up for a thousand years, you have the first resurrection, and you have the end of all living humanity that was not invited to the wedding. The only ones left on the earth are the dead who were not written in the book of life.

What think you?

 

[Yahshua]

It’s why I was wondering if you I or about any ag trust teachings that we could read explaining Jesus return where anyone mentions a thousand year earthly riegn ? Doctrine isn’t really able to be interpreted in many ways it just sort of says what it says.

i was curious is you were basing it on a teaching from the New Testament that teaches us about a thousand year riegn on earth before Jesus destroys it when he returns from heaven as he promised to do to gather his people and take them home .

It seems to me we are waiting for Jesus to return from heaven and raise up the dead saving those who belong to him before he destroys the wicked with this earth.

Just cutting in to comment here on the millennium. Where does it come from? As you know the book of Revelation is like the "graduate" material after all other material has been covered. The Almighty is fulfilling his plan outlined in creation week to the very millennium of man, a day for each millennium.

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Are these passages literal? Well, recall that the Almighty told Adam that "in the day" he eats of the forbidden tree, he will "surely" die. Adam lived to be 930 years old and then died. Did Adam die "in the day" he ate of the forbidden tree? Absolutely, if we see time from the Almighty's POV. True to His word, Adam died within the day that he sinned; within the 1st millennium of mankind.

Creation Week: The Plan of the Almighty​

1st Day - Light was separated from darkness

1st Millennium - Years 1 to 1000 from Adam

Details - Sinful mankind (darkness) was separated from the presence of God (Light; 1 John 1:5) as Adam was kicked out of the garden.


2nd Day - Waters above are separated from waters below, creating dry land

2nd Millennium - Years 1001 to 2000 from Adam

Details - After the flood, Noah witnessed waters above separating from waters below, once again revealing dry land. And if you count up the years when each firstborn from Adam were born, you'll discover that Noah lived during the 2nd millennium of mankind. 1648 years from Adam (YFA).


3rd Day - All seed-bearing trees and fruit were provided

3rd Millennium - Years 2001 to 3000 from Adam

Details - The central theme you read about next in scripture is Abraham's promised seed and the promise to become the father of many nations. Continuing to count up the year of each firstborn from Adam, Abram was reborn as Abraham and given Isaac during the 3rd millennium of mankind. 2090 YFA.


4th Day - The stars of heaven, the Sun and the Moon are provided "to rule over" the day and night respectively

4th Millennium - Years 3001 to 4000 from Adam

Details - Next, scripture enters the time of the kings. Several times the scriptures describe kings and rulers as stars (Isaiah 14:12; Numbers 24:17), culminating with the birth of THE King, The Messiah; literally called "the Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2). 3998 YFA (3 BCE).

---

Historically, mankind has never stopped existing through time. Mankind has continued for approximately 2000 years since the birth and ministry of the Messiah. So by reason, the Almighty has continued to fulfill the next two days of His plan outlined by creation week; a day for each millennium of man.

---


5th Day - The beasts of the sea are created and commanded to multiply to fill up the sea

5th Millennium - Years 4001 to 5000 from Adam

Details - Scripturally, this takes us into the book of Revelation and specifically why it prophesies about a beast that rises from the sea. Historically, this takes us to approximately between the years 1 AD and 1000 AD. Scripturally, the beast was prophesied to persecute the saints. Historically, we know that the Holy Roman Empire persecuted both Jews and protestant believers in Christ. It rose to power in 538 AD and persecuted them for 1260 years until the Pope was imprisoned by the French in 1798 AD. From that religious empire birth a multitude of religious kingdoms (as the Pope ordained kings).

----

There are no coincidences when it comes to the Almighty's Word.

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6th day - The beasts of the earth are created and commanded to multiply to fill up the land

5th Millennium - Years 5001 to 6000 from Adam (approx. 1001 AD to 2000 AD)

Details - Scripturally, immediately after the beast from the sea is introduced, we're told that a beast will rise from the earth and assume all the authority of the beast from the sea in that beast's presence. Historically, if the Papacy was deposed in 1798 AD, then another empire would necessarily emerge on the world's stage around the same time. The USA was born in 1776 AD.

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If Revelation 17 says that "the waters" the sea beast emerged from are "many peoples, nations, languages", then "the earth" that the earth beast emerges from is a land without many peoples, nations, or languages. The Frontier land of North America.

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Scripture says the earth beast will have the power to "call fire down from heaven". The USA developed the atomic bomb and used it on Japan.

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Scripture says the earth beast would have the power "to give life to the image" of the beast that it should speak. Anima. To animate the image. Move the picture. Motion Pictures. The USA was the chief exporter of Television programming/movies. Hollywood = holy wood = magic wands.

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Scripture says that through this power, it would cause all who refuse to worship the beast "should be killed". In other words, the power of mainstream media propaganda, the ability to make an enemy out of anyone who doesn't follow the program or projected image (e.g., Egypt, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Palestine).

Propaganda is short for the Latin "Congregatio de Propaganda Fide", meaning "Congregation for Propagating the Faith". In other words, the congregation of prophets. The beast of the earth is called the false prophet because of this empire's power of propaganda.

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Scripture says this earth beast would appear like a lamb but speak like a dragon (i.e., appear righteous but speak like satan). The USA appears Christian, but its policies are to lie, to kill, and to steal from other nations...as well as to promote all forms of ungodliness.

----

Scripture says the earth beast would operate in this power in the presence of the sea beast that would have its deadly wound healed. The Papacy was restored to power in 1929 during the Lateran Treaty.

----

...I can go on, but I think this is sufficient.

Each beast was commanded to be fruitful and multiply. So what started as the Holy Roman Empire (Papacy) and later the USA have since grown into a multitude of nations emulating both the Holy Roman Empire and the USA in governmental structure, military power, and their religious institutions.

Which brings us to the 7th day.

----


7th day - The Almighty completed His work and rested

7th Millennium - Years 6001 - 7000 from Adam (to start at some point within approx. 2001 - 3000 AD)

Details - This is why Revelation speaks of a 1000-year reign. It isn't an arbitrary or spiritual number of years. The Almighty has been fulfilling creation week, a day for each millennium. The 1000-year reign is the Sabbath day; the Day of the Lord.

Historically, it will only begin when the Messiah (with and through His body) is here in glory. He will destroy all false religions and eradicate all military power (weapons, soldiers, commanders) that stands against Him. And then He and His saints will rule over and teach the surviving nations how life is supposed to be lived and how The Almighty is supposed to be worshipped.

The Rod of Iron will be for the rebellious many who will refuse to submit. Their lives will be very hard until their rebellious hearts are broken or until they perish. Either way, all iniquity will be removed from the land in one day (Zechariah 3:9).

Daniel 7 details all the beast kingdoms of mankind that will appear, followed by the Son of Man's kingdom that will destroy the terrible beast and then reign over the other kingdoms.

 

[tttallison]

Ezekiel and Revelation are giving the same prophecy, in the same order.

Ezekiel 37:1-15 resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-24 reign
Ezekiel 38 and 39 Gog and Magog.

Revelation 20:1-5 resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 reign
Revelation 20:7-10 Gog and Magog.

The army of resurrected saints is mentioned in Ezekiel 37:9-10 and Revelation 19:14.
'And they stood up on their feet an exceedingly great army.' Ezekiel 37:10
'The armies in the sky followed Him on white horses' Revelation 19:14

( In Revelation 19:14 'which were' is an added in phrase that is not originally there, most Bibles will denote it as such by having it in italics )

And we see the same order in Isaiah.

Isaiah 26:19 resurrections.
Isaiah 27:1-2 slaying of two beasts.

Revelation 19:7-14 resurrections
Revelation 19:20-21 slaying of two beasts.

The prophecies taken together give us a full understanding.

There is only 1 return of the Lord, when He returns Israel's dead men shall rise, the dead in Christ shall rise, and any remaining alive believers will also be changed and caught up to be part of the Lords army, literally in the sky, in the clouds, coming down to reign with Christ for 1000 literal years.

I would argue that there is a resurrection before the millennium and a resurrection after the millennium.

Consider Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection is made up of those that were beheaded and reigned with Christ a thousand years. They are told not to fear the second death, but the second group resurrected after the millennium seems to have the potential for a second death.

The way Revelation twenty verse five is written is misleading, when it states "this is the first resurrection" , for it is not referring to the rest of the dead but rather the first group who reign with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

I don't believe there will be anyone, who has not been resurrected, walking on the earth during the millennium. The earth is to have her Shabbat for a thousand years without anyone to disturb the peace, neither sinner, nor accuser.

Rev 19:21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[tttallison]

"What think you?" ----That you do not understand the Plan of God.

Where is it written God puts to death all humans

Directly After Christ has returned to earth as KING of Kings on the Feast of Trumpets, to rule the entire earth with The rod of iron, the Second Exodus takes place. All of the 12 Tribes that survived the last 3 1/2 years make their way to Jerusalem to receive the promise God made to Abraham.

Jeremiah 16: 14 - 15

14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, ----that it shall - --- no more be said, ---The LORD liveth, ---- --- that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

15 But, -- The LORD liveth, -------that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither He had driven them: --------and I will bring them ---“again”--- into their land that I gave unto their fathers.


The 12 Tribes will be given the Promised Land, they will live in peace and even the nature of animals will changed

I did make an error in that post when I stated, "The only ones left on the earth are the dead who were not written in the book of life." I should have stated "The only ones left on the earth are the dead in the ground."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Just cutting in to comment here on the millennium. Where does it come from? As you know the book of Revelation is like the "graduate" material after all other material has been covered. The Almighty is fulfilling his plan outlined in creation week to the very millennium of man, a day for each millennium.

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Are these passages literal? Well, recall that the Almighty told Adam that "in the day" he eats of the forbidden tree, he will "surely" die. Adam lived to be 930 years old and then died. Did Adam die "in the day" he ate of the forbidden tree? Absolutely, if we see time from the Almighty's POV. True to His word, Adam died within the day that he sinned; within the 1st millennium of mankind.

Creation Week: The Plan of the Almighty​

1st Day - Light was separated from darkness

1st Millennium - Years 1 to 1000 from Adam

Details - Sinful mankind (darkness) was separated from the presence of God (Light; 1 John 1:5) as Adam was kicked out of the garden.


2nd Day - Waters above are separated from waters below, creating dry land

2nd Millennium - Years 1001 to 2000 from Adam

Details - After the flood, Noah witnessed waters above separating from waters below, once again revealing dry land. And if you count up the years when each firstborn from Adam were born, you'll discover that Noah lived during the 2nd millennium of mankind. 1648 years from Adam (YFA).


3rd Day - All seed-bearing trees and fruit were provided

3rd Millennium - Years 2001 to 3000 from Adam

Details - The central theme you read about next in scripture is Abraham's promised seed and the promise to become the father of many nations. Continuing to count up the year of each firstborn from Adam, Abram was reborn as Abraham and given Isaac during the 3rd millennium of mankind. 2090 YFA.


4th Day - The stars of heaven, the Sun and the Moon are provided "to rule over" the day and night respectively

4th Millennium - Years 3001 to 4000 from Adam

Details - Next, scripture enters the time of the kings. Several times the scriptures describe kings and rulers as stars (Isaiah 14:12; Numbers 24:17), culminating with the birth of THE King, The Messiah; literally called "the Sun of Righteousness" (Malachi 4:2). 3998 YFA (3 BCE).

---

Historically, mankind has never stopped existing through time. Mankind has continued for approximately 2000 years since the birth and ministry of the Messiah. So by reason, the Almighty has continued to fulfill the next two days of His plan outlined by creation week; a day for each millennium of man.

---


5th Day - The beasts of the sea are created and commanded to multiply to fill up the sea

5th Millennium - Years 4001 to 5000 from Adam

Details - Scripturally, this takes us into the book of Revelation and specifically why it prophesies about a beast that rises from the sea. Historically, this takes us to approximately between the years 1 AD and 1000 AD. Scripturally, the beast was prophesied to persecute the saints. Historically, we know that the Holy Roman Empire persecuted both Jews and protestant believers in Christ. It rose to power in 538 AD and persecuted them for 1260 years until the Pope was imprisoned by the French in 1798 AD. From that religious empire birth a multitude of religious kingdoms (as the Pope ordained kings).

----

There are no coincidences when it comes to the Almighty's Word.

----


6th day - The beasts of the earth are created and commanded to multiply to fill up the land

5th Millennium - Years 5001 to 6000 from Adam (approx. 1001 AD to 2000 AD)

Details - Scripturally, immediately after the beast from the sea is introduced, we're told that a beast will rise from the earth and assume all the authority of the beast from the sea in that beast's presence. Historically, if the Papacy was deposed in 1798 AD, then another empire would necessarily emerge on the world's stage around the same time. The USA was born in 1776 AD.

----

If Revelation 17 says that "the waters" the sea beast emerged from are "many peoples, nations, languages", then "the earth" that the earth beast emerges from is a land without many peoples, nations, or languages. The Frontier land of North America.

----

Scripture says the earth beast will have the power to "call fire down from heaven". The USA developed the atomic bomb and used it on Japan.

----

Scripture says the earth beast would have the power "to give life to the image" of the beast that it should speak. Anima. To animate the image. Move the picture. Motion Pictures. The USA was the chief exporter of Television programming/movies. Hollywood = holy wood = magic wands.

----

Scripture says that through this power, it would cause all who refuse to worship the beast "should be killed". In other words, the power of mainstream media propaganda, the ability to make an enemy out of anyone who doesn't follow the program or projected image (e.g., Egypt, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Russia, North Korea, Palestine).

Propaganda is short for the Latin "Congregatio de Propaganda Fide", meaning "Congregation for Propagating the Faith". In other words, the congregation of prophets. The beast of the earth is called the false prophet because of this empire's power of propaganda.

----

Scripture says this earth beast would appear like a lamb but speak like a dragon (i.e., appear righteous but speak like satan). The USA appears Christian, but its policies are to lie, to kill, and to steal from other nations...as well as to promote all forms of ungodliness.

----

Scripture says the earth beast would operate in this power in the presence of the sea beast that would have its deadly wound healed. The Papacy was restored to power in 1929 during the Lateran Treaty.

----

...I can go on, but I think this is sufficient.

Each beast was commanded to be fruitful and multiply. So what started as the Holy Roman Empire (Papacy) and later the USA have since grown into a multitude of nations emulating both the Holy Roman Empire and the USA in governmental structure, military power, and their religious institutions.

Which brings us to the 7th day.

----


7th day - The Almighty completed His work and rested

7th Millennium - Years 6001 - 7000 from Adam (to start at some point within approx. 2001 - 3000 AD)

Details - This is why Revelation speaks of a 1000-year reign. It isn't an arbitrary or spiritual number of years. The Almighty has been fulfilling creation week, a day for each millennium. The 1000-year reign is the Sabbath day; the Day of the Lord.

Historically, it will only begin when the Messiah (with and through His body) is here in glory. He will destroy all false religions and eradicate all military power (weapons, soldiers, commanders) that stands against Him. And then He and His saints will rule over and teach the surviving nations how life is supposed to be lived and how The Almighty is supposed to be worshipped.

The Rod of Iron will be for the rebellious many who will refuse to submit. Their lives will be very hard until their rebellious hearts are broken or until they perish. Either way, all iniquity will be removed from the land in one day (Zechariah 3:9).

Daniel 7 details all the beast kingdoms of mankind that will appear, followed by the Son of Man's kingdom that will destroy the terrible beast and then reign over the other kingdoms.

Interesting reading thank you for taking the time.

Do Jesus and his apostles ever Teach that there’s going to be a thousand year reign ? Or did they teach something else ?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do Jesus and his apostles ever Teach that there’s going to be a thousand year reign ? Or did they teach something else ?

If John the apostle wrote Revelation, then he explicitly stated there will be a 1000-year earthly reign of the kingdom of God. That's where the idea comes from

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If John the apostle wrote Revelation, then he explicitly stated there will be a 1000-year earthly reign of the kingdom of God. That's where the idea comes from

That’s sort of my point in order to make the idea work we have to look at one verse from an apacalyptic vision filled with figures and prophetic imagery in order to force the idea into the doctrine they all actually taught about his return

heres an example of my point Peter was teaching the church this about Jesus retirn they were waiting for

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

…..but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;( god doesn’t view time the same way we do ) but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? ….

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, ( that’s gods promise to israel and all who believe ) wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is Peter is teaching people doctrine . John was seeing an apocalypse . Doctrine is literal apacalyptic prophetic visions filled with figures of red dragons and slain lambs with seven eyes and heads of beasts with ten horns who take power for a single hour ect ect that’s not a literal teaching of doctrine . It’s an apocalyptic vision that requires us to have hears the imagery in prior prophecy in order to make any sense of it


revelation is all about the rest of what the Bible says not about magical lambs with seven horns and eyes and riders on horses with crowns or dragons and giant beasts rising up from the sea and earth ….. none of that’s literal doctrine Jesus doesn’t actually have seven eyes and isn’t actually a lamb at gods throne … that imagery is showing us what the Bible said about Jesus Christ

The whole book is that way . There’s no actual doctrine . Don’t you think someone would have mentioned it in an epistle ? Or Jesus would have mentioned it in the gospel he was preaching to israel ? That’s my issue if you don’t take that single verse from revelation …… there’s nothing else in the entire nt that says anything about a thousand year “ millenial “ esrthly riegn

infactall the doctrine teaches that when Jesus returns this world ends

Look at what Jesus and his apostles taught in the actual doctrine about his return he doesn’t promise them he’ll return and make them rulers of the earth he says he’s going to his fathers house and he’s going to prepare a place for them to be with him where he is then he’s going to come back and get them …..

he tells them his kingdom is not of this world . But listen it’s a legitimate question for those who teach so much aboit this “ millenial riegn “

Wouldn’t there be some sort of aftual
Literal teaching about it like there is everything else ? Or wouldn’t the idea at least fit together with some of the things they taught about his return ?


I’m open to changing my mind but I think it’s alright to want to see something other than an apocalyptic vision of prophetic imagery teaching it . Or to expect at least someone in the nt to mention “ oh by the way jesus is retirning and for a thousand years and then the stuff we taught will happen about judgement and all that ….there should be some doctrine somewhere and I’ve never read it

 

[Yahshua]

Interesting reading thank you for taking the time.

Do Jesus and his apostles ever Teach that there’s going to be a thousand year reign ? Or did they teach something else ?

1 Corinthians 15:20-26
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn:

- Christ the firstfruits;
- then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.


Paul gives a quick summary of the order of events, which matches the order given in Revelation.

- The Messiah returns, and those who belong to Him are resurrected.
- The Messiah reigns for a time, subjecting His enemies to Him...destroying all earthly rule
- Then the end comes, as the Messiah gives the kingdom over to the Almighty
- And death is destroyed at last.

Notice that, from the context, Paul has established that death remains part of the human condition during the Messiah's reign, which means this reign is occurring on earth among mortals. Also, notice that His reign is finite, when the Messiah gives the authority back to the Almighty; the only thing Paul doesn't give us here is a timeframe for this earthly reign.


Phillippians 2:9-10
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,


Everyone will submit to the Messiah:

- Those in heaven now, when He ascended to the right hand at Pentecost (war in heaven...Rev 12...satan cast out)
- Those on earth, when He returns
- Those under the earth, when they resurrect for their final judgment


Acts 1:6-7
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. ”


The kingdom of Israel was on earth. The Messiah is the King of Israel. The Messiah didn't say it wouldn't happen, but told them The Father has set the time for that restoration.


Matthew 6-10
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


The Messiah instructed us to pray daily for the kingdom to come to earth and for the almighty's will to be done on earth.



Luke 13:28-29
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.


This passage describes the sorrow of those excluded from God’s kingdom as they witness the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) and prophets inside the kingdom, while they are cast out. There will be people unworthy to enter the city gates, perfectly mirroring what Revelation 22 says.


Revelation 22:14-15
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.



Luke 19-17
“‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’


In this parable of the kingdom, the Messiah explains that the saint will be rewarded with authority over cities of people based on their obedience now.

----

All these passages align with Old Testament prophesies, Daniel's visions, and John's visions.

 

[dkontner]

I was baptized in 1970, in 2015, as I laid flat on my back, I found myself in a King James Bible. The Lord baptized me. It freaked me out. I had questions upon questions. I asked him. He told me via His word. See my signature? He has been saving those that are His by any means for two days. I nearly died without Him. On the third day.... It's everywhere in scripture, these are just a few.

Exodus 19:10-11
King James Version
10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Luke 13:31-32
King James Version
31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

John 2:1-2
King James Version
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The whole book is that way . There’s no actual doctrine . Don’t you think someone would have mentioned it in an epistle ? Or Jesus would have mentioned it in the gospel he was preaching to israel ? That’s my issue if you don’t take that single verse from revelation …… there’s nothing else in the entire nt that says anything about a thousand year “ millenial “ esrthly riegn

If you're going to take this approach, then to be honest you have to apply it to everything in the book. Like the vast multitude before the throne. If you say that the vast multitude is mentioned elsewhere in the bible, then you also need to take in account that an earthly reign of Christ is also mentioned elsewhere in the bible in numerous places.

Just because the specific time period is mentioned in only one book isn't a legitimate excuse to dismiss it. It may have been revealed to only one person. Also, I'm sure we can find other things that are only mentioned once, or by only one person, yet we don't question it. Would it have been legitimate for the writer of Hebrews to dismiss David's prophecy that Christ would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek simply because no one else had mentioned it?

Furthermore, to take the approach you're taking you have to allegorize many things in non apocalyptic books that God personally said. Like him promising to give the land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You're taking the liberty to allegorize that. What gives you that license? When the writer of Hebrews wrote that Abraham and others were looking beyond the current corrupt demonic world to a heavenly country ruled by God you are taking the liberty to interpret that as meaning not on earth. But the simple explanation that fits with so much other scripture is that they were simply looking beyond to a heavenly world ruled by God (out of heaven, not in heaven) instead of by the devil.

And finally, you are conflating things said about the lord's return in which the "elements melt" and the heavens "pass way" with the new heavens and earth. The two can be distinguished as separate. The word elements does not refer to atoms, but to the orderly arrangement of the current world (not earth) which is to be completely dissolved. And the heavens passing away and being rolled up like a scroll does not refer to no more sky, but is allegorical language to describe the loud violent nature of the lord's return as the veil of heaven is rolled back to reveal the son of God in all his power and glory.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1 Corinthians 15:20-26
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn:

- Christ the firstfruits;
- then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.


Paul gives a quick summary of the order of events, which matches the order given in Revelation.

- The Messiah returns, and those who belong to Him are resurrected.
- The Messiah reigns for a time, subjecting His enemies to Him...destroying all earthly rule
- Then the end comes, as the Messiah gives the kingdom over to the Almighty
- And death is destroyed at last.

Notice that, from the context, Paul has established that death remains part of the human condition during the Messiah's reign, which means this reign is occurring on earth among mortals. Also, notice that His reign is finite, when the Messiah gives the authority back to the Almighty; the only thing Paul doesn't give us here is a timeframe for this earthly reign.


Phillippians 2:9-10
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,


Everyone will submit to the Messiah:

- Those in heaven now, when He ascended to the right hand at Pentecost (war in heaven...Rev 12...satan cast out)
- Those on earth, when He returns
- Those under the earth, when they resurrect for their final judgment


Acts 1:6-7
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. ”


The kingdom of Israel was on earth. The Messiah is the King of Israel. The Messiah didn't say it wouldn't happen, but told them The Father has set the time for that restoration.


Matthew 6-10
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


The Messiah instructed us to pray daily for the kingdom to come to earth and for the almighty's will to be done on earth.



Luke 13:28-29
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.


This passage describes the sorrow of those excluded from God’s kingdom as they witness the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) and prophets inside the kingdom, while they are cast out. There will be people unworthy to enter the city gates, perfectly mirroring what Revelation 22 says.


Revelation 22:14-15
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.



Luke 19-17
“‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’


In this parable of the kingdom, the Messiah explains that the saint will be rewarded with authority over cities of people based on their obedience now.

----

All these passages align with Old Testament prophesies, Daniel's visions, and John's visions.

“All these passages align with Old Testament prophesies, Daniel's visions, and John's visions.”

yes daniels visions are the same visions John had but from different perspectives as prophecy usually is . and all osssges align with one another we just have to find the reconciling sections of verses that makes sense of it all . So No argument with that idea just apparently some of your conclusions of what the large sections of scripture you are leaving out says or how your interpreting most of them


bit indeed Daniel and johns visions along with Ezekiel’s and Zechariah’s are obviously all foretelling and revealing the same things being gods ultimate plan for people.

For now however there’s a kingdom with many folks who’ve already lived on earth it’s in heaven currently and a conflict rages on earth

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

…And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

revaltion isnt what many of you seem to think it is it’s showing a vision of biblically established doctrine from long ago to the end .

In order to unveil things or reveal those things that have been there always the vision makes an orderly account of what’s been n the Bible

 

[Yahshua]

“All these passages align with Old Testament prophesies, Daniel's visions, and John's visions.”

yes daniels visions are the same visions John had but from different perspectives as prophecy usually is . and all osssges align with one another we just have to find the reconciling sections of verses that makes sense of it all . So No argument with that idea just apparently some of your conclusions of what the large sections of scripture you are leaving out says or how your interpreting most of them


bit indeed Daniel and johns visions along with Ezekiel’s and Zechariah’s are obviously all foretelling and revealing the same things being gods ultimate plan for people.

For now however there’s a kingdom with many folks who’ve already lived on earth it’s in heaven currently and a conflict rages on earth

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

…And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

revaltion isnt what many of you seem to think it is it’s showing a vision of biblically established doctrine from long ago to the end .

In order to unveil things or reveal those things that have been there always the vision makes an orderly account of what’s been n the Bible

Weren't you asking if the messiah or the apostles ever taught about a 1000 yr reign on earth? I shared passages Paul wrote about it plainly and times the messiah spoke about it in parable.

Is it the time frame of the reign, or the location of the reign, or the reason for the reign that you disagree with? Or all of the above?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Weren't you asking if the messiah or the apostles ever taught about a 1000 yr reign on earth? I shared passages Paul wrote about it plainly and times the messiah spoke about it in parable.

Is it the time frame of the reign, or the location of the reign, or the reason for the reign that you disagree with? Or all of the above?

Yes I was and no you really didn’t you tried to make something fit. Show me where anyone was teaching it in thier own words. Show me where anyone was teaching the church about it is my question

your pointing to lines from parables and prophecy and interpreting it to mean things . I’m asking for a teaching in the New Testament like thisnis a teaching

“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬

i don’t have to re interpret this I can just say Paul taught this …it says What it says

im asking for a teaching teaching about a thousand year reign rather than what they all taught about Jesus retirning and raising everyone up

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1 Corinthians 15:20-26
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.




In this parable of the kingdom, the Messiah explains that the saint will be rewarded with authority over cities of people based on their obedience now.

----

All these passages align with Old Testament prophesies, Daniel's visions, and John's visions.

“ But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.”
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:

that’s my point. Thats the first resurrection the firstfruits regarding those who slept. Paul’s talking about that the first resurrection Christ , the firstfruits of those who slept in waiting for him since the beginning. Then he explains it happens every one in thier order one group with Christ who is the firstfruits of those who had slept but raised up after he did because they are his firstfruits harvest like in the ot laws

and then he explains “ and then those who are Christs when he comes back “




and this is what they were teaching the church we are waiting for regarding those of our folks who fall asleep since then and anyone alive that day who believes

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them ( those who have died in Christ before that day ) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember what he told them ? It wasn’t “ I’ll come back and we’ll riegn here in earth together that’s not at all what he promised

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:

but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It never was about redeeming the earth it’s about saving the people from it before this day when he returns

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s giving us time to repent before this day comes

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 8-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They are just teaching the things Jesus taught in the gospel about his retirn from heaven which it’s all based on the resireection came when the messiah came to fulfill the old covenant promoses

and the promise of resurrection will also be fulfilled when he returns . There are two covenants made with two different groups of people . Each testament promised the group of people a resurrection.

its why the Bible speaks of two of everything even two heavens and two earths an old and a new there are two testaments . In each he promised the people of that covenant a resurrection


I go to prepare a place for you …..


“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This group appears several times in revelation in heavens kingdom



Those of Israel’s tribes have already risen with him and they reign with him in sion the true Jerusalem he had promised them
those saints were never waiting to be raised up and then to live again on this earth
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. …

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

“ But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.”
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:

that’s my point. Thats the first resurrection the firstfruits regarding those who slept. Paul’s talking about that the first resurrection Christ , the firstfruits of those who slept in waiting for him since the beginning. Then he explains it happens every one in thier order one group with Christ who is the firstfruits of those who had slept but raised up after he did because they are his firstfruits harvest like in the ot laws

That's not the first resurrection according to Revelation 20:5.

I've been wondering who the 24 elders are, and this makes me think that those who were raised from the dead at Chrost's death are them. It doesn't make sense that they would be raised from the dead into a world they never knew and then be left there to die again. Doesn't seem very kind.

So if the 24 elders are the patriarchs, that could be 10 from Adam to Noah; Seth; Job; Abraham, Issac and Jacob; Moses and Elijah (who we know are there); Joseph; David; Samuel; and who else? That's 20, need 4 more