The book of Job

[reneweddaybyday]

How does a vile person have integrity?

Please provide the verse wherein God said Job was vile.

Elihu had spoke for six chapters, without God, or anyone else, having anything negative to say about Elihu?

so? Elihu had the same mistaken opinion concerning Job that Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar had ... that Job was being chastened by God for some sort of sin he had committed which required Job to repent.

You know that is not what occurred. You know satan was the cause of Job's distress (Job 2:7) ... and not for any sin on the part of Job. satan made an accusation against Job and God put satan's claim to the test. satan's claim was wholly without merit notwithstanding the fact that some of the statements made by Job were erroneous. Elihu, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar made erroneous statements as well.

You know God's words concerning Job from the outset were that Job worshipped God. Three times God tells us ... (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3) ... how many times does God have to tell you before you believe Him?

While God spoke evilly of Job and his three friends.

please provide the verse wherein God spoke "evilly" as you claim.

The question was, why did Job think he had salvation just because God said Job was blameless and upright?

God said more than Job was blameless and upright.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

God also said Job feareth God and escheweth evil.

To fear God is to reverence God. Unbelievers do not reverence God.

To eschew evil means to turn away from evil. Unbelievers do not eschew evil.

And if it is true that Job was already saved, why was it that Job wasn't accepted until after he made intercession for his friends? What does it mean to be accepted by God?

I explained Job 42:7-9 to you here.

In vs 8, God told Eliphaz that he, Bildad and Zophar were to offer seven bullocks and seven rams and go to Job.

Job made the burnt offering for his friends and Job prayed for them.

In vs 9, God accepted the prayer of Job and the offerings made on behalf of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar.

If I said to you, will you condemn me so that you can look good, what would your response be?

what does your question have to do with what Job went through?

.

 

[tttallison]

Please provide the verse wherein God said Job was vile.





so? Elihu had the same mistaken opinion concerning Job that Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar had ... that Job was being chastened by God for some sort of sin he had committed which required Job to repent.

You know that is not what occurred. You know satan was the cause of Job's distress (Job 2:7) ... and not for any sin on the part of Job. satan made an accusation against Job and God put satan's claim to the test. satan's claim was wholly without merit notwithstanding the fact that some of the statements made by Job were erroneous. Elihu, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar made erroneous statements as well.

You know God's words concerning Job from the outset were that Job worshipped God. Three times God tells us ... (Job 1:1; Job 1:8; Job 2:3) ... how many times does God have to tell you before you believe Him?





please provide the verse wherein God spoke "evilly" as you claim.





God said more than Job was blameless and upright.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

God also said Job feareth God and escheweth evil.

To fear God is to reverence God. Unbelievers do not reverence God.

To eschew evil means to turn away from evil. Unbelievers do not eschew evil.





I explained Job 42:7-9 to you here.

In vs 8, God told Eliphaz that he, Bildad and Zophar were to offer seven bullocks and seven rams and go to Job.

Job made the burnt offering for his friends and Job prayed for them.

In vs 9, God accepted the prayer of Job and the offerings made on behalf of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar.





what does your question have to do with what Job went through?

.

I don't believe I ever said, that God said Job was vile.

Satan was a servant, so who has the most blame, the servant, or the master that allowed the attack?

Why do you think Job called himself vile, and abhorred himself? Are you saying Job didn't repent.

Are you saying it is not a sin to reprove, or rebuke God?

What erroneous statements did the three friends, and Job's judge make?

Did I really say evilly? Must have been tired.

I believe Satan fears God.

Our bibles do not read the same in Job 42:9.

Job was blameless and upright until he no longer blessed God.

God said to Job, "Will you condemn me so that you might be righteous", and that is the reason I asked you what you would think if I asked "you" that question.

God's love for the man's soul was the reason God had Satan chastise Job. Satan meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. Elihu makes this clear in Job 33:16-28

Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword. He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain: So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat. His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out. Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers. If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth: He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't believe I ever said, that God said Job was vile.

you didn't. what you said was "How does a vile person have integrity?"

God said Job had integrity (Job 2:3).

What Job said about himself in Job 40:4) was that he was vile (Hebrew qālal which means slight, insignificant). Job was wholly insignificant compared to the magnitude of God's creative power revealed in Job 38-39.

Satan was a servant, so who has the most blame, the servant, or the master that allowed the attack?

satan was not a servant in this scenario. satan was the accuser and satan's claim was proved wrong.

Why do you think Job called himself vile, and abhorred himself?

In the Hebrew, the word "vile" means insignificant.

Job abhorred himself because he uttered things too wonderful which he did not completely understand (Job 42:3).

Once God revealed Himself in chapters 38-41, Job realized that what he thought he knew about God was like a drop in the ocean. Same with us ... as much as we think we know God ... or know about God ... there is so much more we need to learn. Even in eternity we will never, ever come to the end of God. God is beyond any glorious magnificence we could ever imagine or comprehend.

Are you saying Job didn't repent.

I am saying there was no sin on Job's part that led to satan's attack. That was the faulty assumption on the part of Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu ... that Job was being chastened for sin committed for which he needed to repent.

Even Job himself asked God to show him what sin he had committed so he could repent and have his close fellowship with God restored.

What I am saying is that sin on the part of Job was not why satan attacked ... satan attacked because Job was a man of faith ... one who had faith in God and walked in integrity.

In his ongoing effort to steal, kill, destroy the fellowship between the believer and God, satan goes after those who believe in God. The believer who stands firm in faith against the onslaught of satan can have peace in his or her heart even during tumultuous times ... or comfort during tribulation ... or joy while walking through the valley. Not every moment of the believer's life is the mountaintop ... but the mountaintop can remain in the heart while going through the valley, thereby bringing comfort in the midst of adversity. and the valley can remain in the heart while on the mountaintop, thereby keeping the believer humble.

We know these truths because God has told us ... but back in Job's day, they were ignorant of satan. Even after Job's trial, his friends and family comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him (Job 42:11). satan brought evil upon Job ... not God.

Are you saying it is not a sin to reprove, or rebuke God?

Job begged for an opportunity to speak with God ... to have God reveal to Job why he was going through what he was going through (Job 13:3; Job 23:3-5). God remained aloof until He spoke to Job in chapter 38 at which point God revealed His powerful magnificence in His creation, as well as His intimate knowledge of creatures, and man's complete inability to tame the largest and/or wildest of creatures (behemoth/leviathan). Job's response ...

Job 42:2-3

2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

What erroneous statements did the three friends, and Job's judge make?

Eliphaz implied sin on the part of Job (Job 4:7-8) was the reason Job was undergoing his distress;

then accused Job of turning from God (Job 15:13) when Job did not agree with Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar in their claims that he had sinned;

then falsely accused Job of great wickedness (Job 22:5) ... claiming Job had behaved poorly toward folks in need.


Bildad claimed Job's children were killed because of their sin (Job 8:4) ... so nice to discuss when a "friend" is covered from head to toe with sore boils ... then accused Job of being a hypocrite who forgot God (Job 8:13);

then claimed that Job dwelt with the wicked and he did not know God (Job 18:21).


Zophar accused Job of lying and mocking in an effort to not hear his friends tell "truth" to Job (Job 11:3);

then lumped Job in with the hypocrite and the wicked (Job 20:5).


Elihu claimed Job sinned in his insistence he had not sinned (Job 33:9-12);

then accused Job of keeping company with wicked men and walking in the way of the wicked (Job 34:7-8) ... that Job added rebellion to his sin in his disregard of the words of Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar (Job 34:37);

then claimed that there was no answer from God when Job cried out because Job was prideful and evil (Job 35:12).


Nowhere did Job claim to be perfectly sinless ... Job's claim was that in the current circumstance, there was no sin on Job's part for which he needed to repent, or if Job had sinned, he asked God to reveal that to him so he could repent.

And I understand that these "friends" were completely unaware of satan and his antics, but these guys completely disregarded Job when Job insisted he had not sinned ... that he was not being punished or chastened for sin on his part.

Or, if he was being chastened, Job asked God to show him where he had sinned and he would gladly repent.

When Job disregarded the arguments of his friends ... the claim was that it was due to pride or lying or hypocrisy or wickedness on his part.

But when the four friends disregarded what Job said ... that was not due to pride on their part.

I believe Satan fears God.

"fears" as in worships God? ... or "fears" as in is terrified of God?

Our bibles do not read the same in Job 42:9.

what version of the bible do you read?

God's love for the man's soul was the reason God had Satan chastise Job. Satan meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. Elihu makes this clear in Job 33:16-28

again, Job was not being chastened by God. Job was under attack from satan for no other reason than satan's stated ministry is to steal, kill, destroy (John 10:10).

satan's claim that Job would "curse God to His face" was proven to be nothing but the lying words of the windbag (satan).

God worked all out for good because that is Who He is.

.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Now some people teach that Job refers to Jesus Christ. That would fit perfectly. No doubt. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins, to redeem us. That is righteous judgement, we sinned, a price had to be paid, we couldn't pay it, but nothing prohibits Jesus from paying it for us. So His suffering was righteous judgement, not because He had sinned, but because He was paying the price for those who had sinned.

The problem is that it doesn't explain why believers would also go through that kind of suffering. There are many Christians who have gone through terrible suffering whether a disease, or loss of a child, losing their job, their home, etc.

So on the one hand you can certainly explain this by saying that Jesus is Job. But what if a redeemed, born again believer also endures terrible suffering. How would you explain

“Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: but rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part is Sort of like what happened to job ?

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for their's is the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:8-9‬ ‭

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a wicked world we live in and we have an enemy that’s working to destroy us

“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[ZNP]

“Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: but rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This part is Sort of like what happened to job ?

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; and patience, experience; and experience, hope:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for their's is the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:8-9‬ ‭

“But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:12, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a wicked world we live in and we have an enemy that’s working to destroy us

“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yep, that is how you would explain it.

 

[christophernyc]

Not confused about the serpent. God asked Job if he was going to take the serpent for a servant forever. The serpent is the king over all the children of pride. Can't you see the implication?

You never explained what you believe the implication is exactly. Can you tell us?

Job said, "My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down."

Moses said, "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." (No conflation, just one man glorifying God, and another glorifying himself.)

In regards to chapter nine, are you implying that if a man says twenty good things about God, and only ten bad things about God, then it all equals out?

You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of that chapter.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

Do you see?

You have no response for these statements by Job. Why? Because this passage alone dissolves the entirety of your theory on this book.

 

[tttallison]

You never explained what you believe the implication is exactly. Can you tell us?



You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of that chapter.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

Do you see?

You have no response for these statements by Job. Why? Because this passage alone dissolves the entirety of your theory on this book.

You are asking what are the implications of Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

It should seem obvious. If I asked you if you are always going to beat your wife, what would the implications be?

In Job 41:30 God tells Job that Satan (or if you prefer, (The king over all the children of pride) threshes the potsherds in the mire. Your bible will not read the same as mine, since it was translated from a different manuscript. Perhaps this is why this book is so hard to understand for some.

We can define Job as a potsherd since he was striving with God, and God said the following. Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You are asking what are the implications of Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

It should seem obvious.

It is obvious ... God described leviathan in Job 41 so that Job would realize that God, as Creator, is so far above His creation that no one can fathom the depth of His might, nor come to the end of God's wisdom.

In Job 41, God was describing a creature of great might and power ... and God's power far surpasses the power of the thing created. God's wisdom in creation is fully observable and God's wisdom far exceeds the extent of man's wisdom. That is the point God made to Job beginning in chapter 38.

What is "obvious" is that Job was wholly incapable of taking leviathan as a servant. Job could never subdue leviathan, much less tame leviathan to the point where leviathan would "serve" Job.

The question emphasizes that it is impossible for humans to control such creatures in contrast to the Creator Who can direct leviathan as He desires.

But the intent of God was never what you claim.

God's intent was for Job to understand that God, as creator of this great and mighty leviathan, was far greater and mightier than leviathan.

Job understood God's intent and came away with more understanding of God than before hearing from God. Job "saw" God in a far greater capacity than before (Job 42:5).

If I asked you if you are always going to beat your wife, what would the implications be?

that you engage in fallacious reasoning.

In Job 41:30 God tells Job that Satan (or if you prefer, (The king over all the children of pride) threshes the potsherds in the mire. Your bible will not read the same as mine, since it was translated from a different manuscript. Perhaps this is why this book is so hard to understand for some.

what version of the Bible do you read? ... what manuscript was your bible translated from?

We can define Job as a potsherd

complete misrepresentation of what is written because the verse is referring to the scales on the underside of leviathan leaving a trail in the mud.

.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Let me ask you this; Can a person's own righteousness save him?

Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness. Ezek 14:20

 

[christophernyc]

You are asking what are the implications of Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

It should seem obvious. If I asked you if you are always going to beat your wife, what would the implications be?

In Job 41:30 God tells Job that Satan (or if you prefer, (The king over all the children of pride) threshes the potsherds in the mire. Your bible will not read the same as mine, since it was translated from a different manuscript. Perhaps this is why this book is so hard to understand for some.

We can define Job as a potsherd since he was striving with God, and God said the following. Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

You did not really answer the question. Can you explain what you believe the implication is for those to whom it not obvious? Can you give a plain answer instead of speaking in riddles?

What verse are you referring to regarding threshing the potsherds in the mire? You did not provide a reference. Also, what is this your bible / my bible stuff? You use the KJV, right? Your last post quoting Isaiah 45:9 was from KJV.

How do you assume which translation others use compared to yours? How are you determining that in your mind?

 

[christophernyc]

Job did not say anything right until after he confessed that he was vile and abhorred himself. That was when his true faith made him whole.

This is abhorrently wrong.

Here are just two examples.

Job 19:25
For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Job 28:23-28
God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
For He looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
To make the weight for the winds; and He weigheth the waters by measure.
When He made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Then did He see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
And unto man He said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Read all of chapter 28, actually.

 

[christophernyc]

Job said, "My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down."

Moses said, "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." (No conflation, just one man glorifying God, and another glorifying himself.)

In regards to chapter nine, are you implying that if a man says twenty good things about God, and only ten bad things about God, then it all equals out?

You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of chapter 29.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

It appears you are ignoring these verses. Why is that? I believe you cannot answer because it shows your entire interpretation is built on a faulty foundation.

Therefore, we can disregard your personal take on this book.

 

[tttallison]

You referred to Job’s words in chapter 29, but please read the beginning of chapter 29.

Job 29:1-5
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
When His candle shined upon my head, and when by His light I walked through darkness;
As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Everything else Job says in chapter 29 is preceded by Job acknowledging that everything he had, or said, or did was because of God.

It appears you are ignoring these verses. Why is that? I believe you cannot answer because it shows your entire interpretation is built on a faulty foundation.

Therefore, we can disregard your personal take on this book.

I am not denying that Job acknowledged that everything he had came from God. There are two billion professed Muslims in this world, and I believe the large majority of them would say the same thing. Does that mean those Muslims have a personal relationship with God?

In the first six verses of chapter 29 Job speaks of God's hedge that has been removed, and in the rest of the verses Job speaks of his greatness, or goodness, and this gives us the reason the hedge was removed. PRIDE!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

In the first six verses of chapter 29 Job speaks of God's hedge that has been removed, and in the rest of the verses Job speaks of his greatness, or goodness, and this gives us the reason the hedge was removed. PRIDE!

Job 2:3-7

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.


vs 5 - satan wanted God to inflict Job.

vs 6 - God refused and lowered His hedge (which satan had complained was in his way).

vs 7 - satan smote Job with sore boils ... no mention of the PRIDE! you continuously claim was the reason Job suffered.


The one and only reason Job Job suffered was that satan attacked Job because Job was an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil (Job 2:3).

.

 

[christophernyc]

I am not denying that Job acknowledged that everything he had came from God. There are two billion professed Muslims in this world, and I believe the large majority of them would say the same thing. Does that mean those Muslims have a personal relationship with God?

We are talking about Job. You are jumping to a different context, yet again and trying to force some extrapolation. Focus, please.

Job does glorify God for everything, like Moses glorified God.

 

[christophernyc]

In the first six verses of chapter 29 Job speaks of God's hedge that has been removed, and in the rest of the verses Job speaks of his greatness, or goodness, and this gives us the reason the hedge was removed. PRIDE!

Yeah, no, sorry…that’s not the story. One of the main ways we know this is not the story is because that is not what it says in chapters 1 and 2. When we read chapters 1 and 2 we are told how and why the hedge of protection was removed.

The reason the hedge of protection was removed has nothing to do with the incongruous theories you insist on foisting upon it.

My suggestion is to read the book again and accept the words as written without inventing ideas not germane to the text.

 

[tttallison]

It is obvious ... God described leviathan in Job 41 so that Job would realize that God, as Creator, is so far above His creation that no one can fathom the depth of His might, nor come to the end of God's wisdom.

In Job 41, God was describing a creature of great might and power ... and God's power far surpasses the power of the thing created. God's wisdom in creation is fully observable and God's wisdom far exceeds the extent of man's wisdom. That is the point God made to Job beginning in chapter 38.

What is "obvious" is that Job was wholly incapable of taking leviathan as a servant. Job could never subdue leviathan, much less tame leviathan to the point where leviathan would "serve" Job.

The question emphasizes that it is impossible for humans to control such creatures in contrast to the Creator Who can direct leviathan as He desires.

But the intent of God was never what you claim.

God's intent was for Job to understand that God, as creator of this great and mighty leviathan, was far greater and mightier than leviathan.

Job understood God's intent and came away with more understanding of God than before hearing from God. Job "saw" God in a far greater capacity than before (Job 42:5).





that you engage in fallacious reasoning.





what version of the Bible do you read? ... what manuscript was your bible translated from?





complete misrepresentation of what is written because the verse is referring to the scales on the underside of leviathan leaving a trail in the mud.

.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Is the serpent presented here Satan?

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Is the serpent presented here Satan?

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. Is the serpent presented here Satan?
Which one of these serpents is king over all the children of pride?

Job 41:3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? Is this what Satan did to Eve?

It is obvious that God thought Job was taking the serpent for a servant, or else God would not have asked Job if he was taking the serpent for a servant forever. Does God also mis-speak as does Job?

I apologize for the statement about translations. Most of the translations present that the serpent is acting as a threshing machine that is dragging the potsherds through the mire, with the intent that they are being refined.

 

[tttallison]

We are talking about Job. You are jumping to a different context, yet again and trying to force some extrapolation. Focus, please.

Job does glorify God for everything, like Moses glorified God.

Not true. Compare the words of Moses with Job.

(Moses) Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

(Job) Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

(Job) Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

(Job) Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

(Job) Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?

Job declares God's greatness, but not God's goodness.

Job was striving and reproving God, for God says so in Job Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Job was the potsherd that strove with three other potsherds. Job had said God had sent his friends as witnesses against him.

 

[christophernyc]

Job declares God's greatness, but not God's goodness.

So you are moving the goal posts? Also, you are contradicting your own argument. You’ve insisted Job has said nothing right before chapter 42, and now you admit Job is declaring God’s greatness?

Trying to follow your argument sometimes feels like walking on marbles.

 

[tttallison]

So you are moving the goal posts? Also, you are contradicting your own argument. You’ve insisted Job has said nothing right before chapter 42, and now you admit Job is declaring God’s greatness?

Trying to follow your argument sometimes feels like walking on marbles.

You are absolutely right, that I mis-spoke, when I said Job did not say anything right.

Can you find any place that Job spoke of God's goodness, righteousness, or mercy?