Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[legion]

It is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so if Gentiles have never been under the Mosaic Law, then Gentiles have never needed to refrain from sin, have never needed to repent from sin, have never needed salvation from sin, have never needed the Gospel message, ha

You do not understand the mosaic law. and I'm going to smack you with it. If your understanding is true, then no one sinned prior to the giving of the law at mt Sinai. On the contrary, mankind knew without the mosaic law that murder was bad, stealing was bad etc.... these did not originate in the mosaic law. therefore the mosaic law was a selction of a larger body of laws that israel was commanded to follow if they wanted to be with god.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and he commissioned his disciples to teach to the nations everything that he taught them. Christianity is about following what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow Christ.

this is a complete lie. no text in the bible shows Jesus or his disciples commanding gentiles tg follow the mosaic law. He did however corre3ct many jews of their error regarding the law.

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that came up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai.

Again, you don't understand the mosaic law.
No these were sojourners they were people who opted to JOIN Israel on their journey. To do so they were obigated to most of the mosaic law because they were with Israel. IN some cases, people decided to be a part to be sure, but those who did not did not have to follow all the mosaic laws... they could eat strangled meat. they could touch dead things etc...

Likewise, in Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born. In Ephesian 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in this world, which is in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of the Mosaic Law, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is in accordance with Gentiles becoming doers of the Mosaic Law.

As i explained above you do not understand the mosaic law.

The New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:33), so it is only through becoming joined to Israel through faith in Christ that Gentiles are able to partake of the New Covenant. Israel was given the role of being a light and a blessing to the nations, but would you prefer it if the light and the blessing was just for Israel?

This is a lie. you do not understand the new covenant either. specifically, you do not understand the fulfillment of Jer 31:33.
If you remember....

Jesus was rejected by the jews.... thus Rim 11: 1 (in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.) Rom 11:15 (For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!)

What WAS intended for Israel and Judah salvation was was given to the gentiles. by writing it on their heart. and Rom 11:17 (But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree.)

Paul spoke about multiple categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law, so it is alway important to be careful to discern which law he was referring to. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul said that he served the Law of God with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which he served with his flesh, and he said that the Law of the Spirit has freed us from the law of sin and death, so its should at least be worth considering whether those verses are referring to one of these categories of law or to a different category that Paul spoke about.

But there was no actual division in the law, you again don't understand. Paul is calling the Mosaic Law several different names, as it is being used in his topic. he isnt dividing it. He explains how the law brings death and sin and then calls it the law of sin and death... rinse repeat.

Paul spoke about the Law of God as being the good that he wanted to do and the law of sin as being something that was hindering him from doing the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that he was not under as being a law where sin had dominion over him, which is clearly not referring to the Law of God that is the good that he wanted to do, but rather that is the role of the law of sin.

Like ive said, you dont understand, and as previously Paul is making a masterful explination the law. The Law exposes sin... Because of the difficulty in doing the whole of the law it is holding him back. Paul is saying under the Law of Liberty in Christ he isnt under the mosaic law which is a doctrine of sin. It lists 613 things that are sin in all its glory. He is free from the mosaic law of sin...

In Romans 6:15, Paul said that being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 7:7, the Law of God is not sinful but how we know what sin is, so we are still under the Law of God. Moreover, everything else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to God and against sin, so there is nothing that suggest that we are no longer under the Law of God and are free to become doers of what it reveals to be sin.

Sin is not the exclusive domain of the mosaic law. there are other ways to sin. you cant get that through your head. Of importance is that God told them specifically 613 things that are sin for THEM and if they cannot do them all they fail.

The condition for the Israelites to return to the land after they had been exiled to Babylon was to first return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which contains laws in regard to Temple practice that could no longer be obeyed because the Temple had just been destroyed, so when there are laws that no longer have their conditions men, then we should nevertheless be faithful to follow Christ's example of obedience to the laws that we can obey.

they were Israelites they had the mosaic law. yes. but you can't just do part of the mosaic law it's all or nothing

If you want to accuse me of something, then by all means please make the case for it instead of offering bluster.

Ok. You do not understand the Old Testament, the Mosaic law specifically. You do not understand the New Testament, specifically the finishing work of Christ on the Cross. You fail to have been educated on 2000 years of Christian doctrine. What you are teaching with saying the mosaic law is binding on Christians is that you are a heretic preaching a different gospel. Any questions. This isn't about me it's about you trying to insert heretical teachings into a group of Christians. Believe what you want but don't call yourself Christian.

Gal 5:4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

Gal 1:6-8 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, (7) which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. (8)But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

 

[BBerean]

Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him , The first of all the commandments is Here , O Israel ; The Lord our God is one Lord : And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart , and with all thy soul , and with all thy mind , and with all thy strength; this is the first commandment.

I must ask the question how many commandments are there ? 10

Are there 2 sets of commandments?
No just one set of commandments.

What seems to be the problem?

think about it .

 

[Inquisitor]

I'm asking whether it is God's will or not.

Will you obey them or not obey them?
Will you obey some of them or just the laws that suit your circumstances?

It was God's will that Israel obeyed the law and God bound them in a covenant to obey that law (Exodus 24).

I am a Gentile and I do not belong to that covenant (Exodus 24).

I will not obey one single iota of the law because I am not in covenant to obey the Mosaic law.

You ignore the covenants and those bound by the covenants.

That is one of the critical mistakes that the legalists make.

The law of Noah was universal but the ten commandments were specific to the covenant (Exodus 24).

To tell Gentiles that they are under the Mosaic law is heresy, witchcraft.

Israel only was bound to obey the law only.

 

[Soyeong]

If your understanding is true, then no one sinned prior to the giving of the law at mt Sinai.

Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits, such as with unrighteousness being sin, so the way to sin has existed for as long as God has been righteous regardless of when God gave laws in that regard. Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13) because people were able to act in a way that was contrary to God's character traits before the law was given, moreover, that means that there were no actions that because righteous or unrighteousness when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been the way to do that.

The Mosaic Law teaches us how to know, love, glorify, worship, believe in, and testify about God through embodying His character traits, so anyone who want to do those things should obey the Mosaic Law and anyone who doesn't want to do those things should argue against obeying it.

this is a complete lie. no text in the bible shows Jesus or his disciples commanding gentiles tg follow the mosaic law. He did however corre3ct many jews of their error regarding the law.

No. Jesus spent the vast majority of his ministry interacting with Jews and teaching Jews to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, but in Matthew 28:16-20, he commissioned his disciples to teach to the nations everything that he taught them.

Again, you don't understand the mosaic law.
No these were sojourners they were people who opted to JOIN Israel on their journey. To do so they were obigated to most of the mosaic law because they were with Israel. IN some cases, people decided to be a part to be sure, but those who did not did not have to follow all the mosaic laws... they could eat strangled meat. they could touch dead things etc...

By all means please quote where the Bible states these things.

As i explained above you do not understand the mosaic law.

That sentiment is mutual. Though those verses I quoted do show that Gentles were included into Israel and thus the verses that spoke in regard to Israel would also apply to them.

This is a lie. you do not understand the new covenant either. specifically, you do not understand the fulfillment of Jer 31:33.
If you remember....

Sorry, I meant Jeremiah 31:31. Those who have faith in the promise are included as part of Israel (Romans 9:6-8), so Romans 11 is speaking about Gentles who have not been joined to Israel. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that have knowledge of what sin is (Roman 3:20), so the way that salvation from sin comes to Gentiles is by turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey the Mosaic Law. Those who have no obligation to obey the Mosaic Law would have no need to be saved from not obeying it. Likewise, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so those who want nothing to do with obeying it also want nothing to do with the New Covenant. In Acts 3:25-25, Jesus was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, and in Psalm 119:1-3 the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed, so the way that the children of Abraham are a blessing to the nations is by turning the nations from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey the Mosaic Law.

But there was no actual division in the law, you again don't understand. Paul is calling the Mosaic Law several different names, as it is being used in his topic. he isnt dividing it. He explains how the law brings death and sin and then calls it the law of sin and death... rinse repeat.

I was not speaking about subdivision within the Law of God but about categories of law other than the Law of God. While Paul does refer to Law of God in multiple ways, he also refers to some categories in contrast with each other, so he is not always referring to the Law of God. For example, Paul said that he served the Law of God with his mind in contrast with serving the law of sin sin his flesh and he said that the Law of the Spirit has freed us from the law of sin and death, so he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted the Book of the Law with "works of the law", and in Romans 3:31, he said that our faith upholds the Law of God in contrast with saying in Galatians 3:10-12 that "works of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to the Law of God, which is why it is not of faith.

Like ive said, you dont understand, and as previously Paul is making a masterful explination the law. The Law exposes sin... Because of the difficulty in doing the whole of the law it is holding him back. Paul is saying under the Law of Liberty in Christ he isnt under the mosaic law which is a doctrine of sin. It lists 613 things that are sin in all its glory. He is free from the mosaic law of sin...

Please base your understanding of the law of sin on what Paul stated about it.

In Romans 7-8:2, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to d the good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which the Law of the Spirit has freed us from. In Romans 8:3-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. Paul described the law of sin as something that was working within his members that was causing him not to do the good of obeying the Law of God that he wanted to do.

So verses that refer to something that would be absurd for Paul to delight in doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God while verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin. For example, in would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:5 and 7:22 as both referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death or as if that was the good that Paul wanted to do, but rather that is the role of the law of sin.

Sin is not the exclusive domain of the mosaic law.

Everything that the Bible says about what sin is is sin accordance with being in transgression of the Mosaic Law and at no point does the Bible refer to a completely different set of laws as being an alternative form of sin.

you can't just do part of the mosaic law it's all or nothing

There can be either legitimate or illegitimate reasons for not following certain laws. For example, Deuteronomy 17:18 specifically instructs the king to write a copy of the Torah, so everyone who is not the king has a legitimate reason for not following those laws. The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so everyone who was not in the land had a legitimate reason for not following those laws. Jesus did not meet the condition of being a woman, so he had a legitimate reason to not follow the laws in regard to giving birth or to having a period.

You do not understand the New Testament, specifically the finishing work of Christ on the Cross

Gal 5:4

Gal 1:6-8

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which Paul also taught based on the Mosaic Law (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23), so you should not interpret Galatians 1:6-8 in a way that turns it against the Gospel that Jesus and Paul taught.

Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 Joh 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ, so both Jesus and Paul taught their followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus sent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. Again, Christianity is about following what Christ taught, not about refusing to follow Christ.

I do not hold the position that Gentiles are requires to obey works of the law in order to become justified, so my position is in complete accordance with Galatians 5:4.

 

[BBerean]

Romans 3 v 26 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law . Is he God of the Jews only ? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes of the Gentiles also : Seeing it is one God , which shall justify the circumcision by faith , and uncircumcision through faith .
Do we then make void the law through faith ? God forbid: yea , we establish the Law . ( that’s all the law )

 

[memberofthebride]

Leviticus 23 only mentions two specific days that are practiced as a sabbath day.

The seventh day and the day of atonement.

Both carry a death penalty and both are a complete rest not a partial rest, not a rest from laborious work.

Leviticus 23:28-30...32
You shall not do any work on this same day, for it is a day of atonement, to make atonement on your behalf before
the Lord your God. If there is any person who will not humble himself on this same day, he shall be cut off from
his people. As for any person who does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people...
It is to be a sabbath of complete rest to you.

The other six feasts are not recognized as a sabbath day rest.

A partial rest and a convocation on any day is not a sabbath rest day.

He's Lord and Master of every day

Read it again.

Jesus was crucified on the day of Preparation (Friday) for the Sabbath (Saturday).

The following day was a sabbath.

Jesus was also crucified on the day of the Passover therefore, the sabbath then includes the first day
of unleavened bread. FOR THAT SABBATH (SATURDAY) was a high day.

so no 12 hour days and nights, no 3 days and 3 nights as Christ said would be the only sign given ?

The 14th of Nisan is the preparation day for Passover, the day to remove all leaven from your house, to make unleavened bread and to roast the Lamb over the wood fire to eat after sunset begins the Feast of Unleavened bread.
the Passover Lambs must be slain on the 14th.

here us another interesting fact, Many including myself have come to believe Christ was put to death in the year 31 AD
I looked up that year and the 14th falls on our Wednesday.

here is how that works out

Wednesday the 14th at our 3 PM Christ died
He was put in the tomb moments before the sunset
at sunset the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread began, the 15th and that day is a High Sabbath Holy Day.

using our days
Christ was in the tomb Wednesday night -- night 1
Thursday day 1
Thursday night 2
Friday day 2
Friday night 3
Saturday day 3
moments before sunset ended the Sabbath, our Saturday, Christ was resurrected.

3 days and 3 nights exactly

here are other facts
29 AD the 14th is on the Sabbath our Saturday
30 AD it is on our Wednesday
31 AD it is on our Wednesday
32 AD it is on our Monday
33 AD its on our Friday
34 AD its on our Wednesday

So unless Christ died in 33 AD it is impossible He died on a Friday.

I do not believe I have come across many saying He died in 33 AD and i doubt many have thought to use God's calendar

here is God's calendar web site http://www.cgsf.org/dbeattie/calendar/calendar?roman=31

I have followed this site for decades and it has been correct on Passover and on every one of the 7 Feasts,

What is also interesting -- when Passover is on our Wednesday then the Feast of Trumpets 7/1, the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles 7/15 and the Last Great Day 7/22 all fall on a 7th day Sabbath.

to me this points to 31 AD which would mean Christ was born on 7/15/4 BC and died at exactly 33 1/2 years old on 1/14/31 AD.

another interesting fact Passover is on our Wednesday in 4 BC. look it up on the web site

there are many ways to confirm the Bible

 

[BBerean]

Romans 3 v 26 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law . Is he God of the Jews only ? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes of the Gentiles also : Seeing it is one God , which shall justify the circumcision by faith , and uncircumcision through faith .
Do we then make void the law through faith ? God forbid: yea , we establish the Law . ( that’s all the law )

A verse that some over look is Romans 3.25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST , through the forbearance of God ;

So I ask the question is the Law needed for future sins ? And does that give validity to Jesus as a mediator as the order of Melchisedec , Jesus is the everlasting priest . Hebrew 7 wherefore he is able also to save them to the utmost that come unto God by him , seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them .
That’s really good news ! Jesus makes intercession for us as a priest in heaven . Therefore the law that convicts of sin can go on as Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away before the law . Why because it’s needed to convict of sin .

 

[Cameron143]

so no 12 hour days and nights, no 3 days and 3 nights as Christ said would be the only sign given ?

The 14th of Nisan is the preparation day for Passover, the day to remove all leaven from your house, to make unleavened bread and to roast the Lamb over the wood fire to eat after sunset begins the Feast of Unleavened bread.
the Passover Lambs must be slain on the 14th.

here us another interesting fact, Many including myself have come to believe Christ was put to death in the year 31 AD
I looked up that year and the 14th falls on our Wednesday.

here is how that works out

Wednesday the 14th at our 3 PM Christ died
He was put in the tomb moments before the sunset
at sunset the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread began, the 15th and that day is a High Sabbath Holy Day.

using our days
Christ was in the tomb Wednesday night -- night 1
Thursday day 1
Thursday night 2
Friday day 2
Friday night 3
Saturday day 3
moments before sunset ended the Sabbath, our Saturday, Christ was resurrected.

3 days and 3 nights exactly

here are other facts
29 AD the 14th is on the Sabbath our Saturday
30 AD it is on our Wednesday
31 AD it is on our Wednesday
32 AD it is on our Monday
33 AD its on our Friday
34 AD its on our Wednesday

So unless Christ died in 33 AD it is impossible He died on a Friday.

I do not believe I have come across many saying He died in 33 AD and i doubt many have thought to use God's calendar

here is God's calendar web site http://www.cgsf.org/dbeattie/calendar/calendar?roman=31

I have followed this site for decades and it has been correct on Passover and on every one of the 7 Feasts,

What is also interesting -- when Passover is on our Wednesday then the Feast of Trumpets 7/1, the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles 7/15 and the Last Great Day 7/22 all fall on a 7th day Sabbath.

to me this points to 31 AD which would mean Christ was born on 7/15/4 BC and died at exactly 33 1/2 years old on 1/14/31 AD.

another interesting fact Passover is on our Wednesday in 4 BC. look it up on the web site

there are many ways to confirm the Bible

3 days and nights only has to contain parts of 3 days and nights.

 

[Inquisitor]

so no 12 hour days and nights, no 3 days and 3 nights as Christ said would be the only sign given ?

The bulk of the verses in the N.T tell us that Jesus rose the third day.

Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many
things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed
and on the third day be raised to life.

Jesus own words, "on the third day be raised to life"

Jesus does not say after the third day.

here us another interesting fact, Many including myself have come to believe Christ was put to death in the year 31 AD
I looked up that year and the 14th falls on our Wednesday.

No one knows the year Jesus was crucified and the year is not important, who cares.

Wednesday the 14th at our 3 PM Christ died
He was put in the tomb moments before the sunset

So Jesus was in the tomb on Wednesday.

So Wednesday must be the first day.

Is that correct or not?

You have Jesus rising on the day of Preparation; well that cannot be correct.

I do not believe I have come across many saying He died in 33 AD

33 AD (specifically April 3, 33 AD) is a common and widely supported date for the crucifixion of Jesus, often
cited alongside 30 AD. While a slight majority of scholars prefer AD 30, a significant number favor 33 AD. (Google)

You must have your head buried in SDA books and you are not aware of anything else.

 

[Inquisitor]

A verse that some over look is Romans 3.25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST , through the forbearance of God ;

So I ask the question is the Law needed for future sins ? And does that give validity to Jesus as a mediator as the order of Melchisedec , Jesus is the everlasting priest . Hebrew 7 wherefore he is able also to save them to the utmost that come unto God by him , seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them .
That’s really good news ! Jesus makes intercession for us as a priest in heaven . Therefore the law that convicts of sin can go on as Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away before the law . Why because it’s needed to convict of sin .

Are you trying to say that Jesus did not fulfill the law?

Did Jesus really accomplish (fulfill the law) and become our righteousness?

Matthew 5:18
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law
until all is accomplished.

Jesus accomplished all the requirements not you.

The law was given to Israel not to the Gentiles.

Your not trying to say your grubby obedience amounts to anything, are you?

The law makes a Jew aware of their need for the messiah.

Gentiles were grafted into the tree of life and Gentiles by merely believing are saved.

 

[Inquisitor]

another interesting fact Passover is on our Wednesday in 4 BC. look it up on the web site

Based on historical calculations for the Jewish calendar in the 1st century BC, Passover in 4 BC (14/15 Nisan) did not occur on a Wednesday. (Google AI)

 

[GWH]

Do I sense a bit of sarcasm? I don't agree there is anything backward in trying to understand scripture. Please tell me how getting a clearer understanding of sin perverts truth; or am I missing the point.

You missed the point, which was/is that the correct direction for understanding Scripture is forward:
interpret the OT in light of the NT (Heb. 7:11-10:1), not the reverse.

 

[memberofthebride]

Based on historical calculations for the Jewish calendar in the 1st century BC, Passover in 4 BC (14/15 Nisan) did not occur on a Wednesday. (Google AI)

the calendar site I sent has been correct going forward and backwards, it includes the 13th month.
I have kept the Sabbath and the Seven Holy Convocations beginning almost 6 decades ago and this calendar has been correct on all of God's Holy days.

I am not SDA, they hold some of the same catholic doctrines as the 45,000 flavors of confusion

you are not addressing the ONE proof Christ gave that HE IS THE Christ,
3 days and 3 nights each 12 hours in length thus 72 hours.
Friday night till sunday morning is 36 hours. big problem

 

[TMS]

We are not under the law but under grace.

Nor are we under the ceremonial law and the two greatest commandments in the ceremonial law.

We are only under the law of Christ which is equipped with the full power of the Holy Spirit.

Israel was under the law and Gentile were never in covenant to obey the law (Exodus 20).

So we can murder?
We can steal, and commit adultery?
We can take the Lord's name in vain?
We can have other god's?

This is acceptable because we are not under the law.

No law = no sin.

 

[memberofthebride]

Are you trying to say that Jesus did not fulfill the law?

Did Jesus really accomplish (fulfill the law) and become our righteousness?

Matthew 5:18
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law
until all is accomplished.

Jesus accomplished all the requirements not you.

The law was given to Israel not to the Gentiles.

Your not trying to say your grubby obedience amounts to anything, are you?

The law makes a Jew aware of their need for the messiah.

Gentiles were grafted into the tree of life and Gentiles by merely believing are saved.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Christ stated that HE "did" His Father's will -- "did" is an action word, not just words out of one's mouth.
What Christ did is keep the Torah to perfection -- not one sin, not one transgression and as the example we are to follow.

How can what Christ did, show us the Father's will to perfection -- not be what we are to follow, to DO?
and what Christ DID was obey the Torah to perfection which was and still IS His Father's will
Christ is telling those He does not know --- "THEY" are NOT doing the Father's Will -- but are LAWLESS which is what Iniquity IS!
Christ is pointing to the Many, not to the Few, that call HIM Lord and are doing many wonderful works in His Name.
These are christians and Christ states HE does not Know them!

it is amazing to me the "45,000 kinds" all ignore most of what Christ taught in the four Gospels, they must because the teachings of Christ are counter to what they DO.


22 Many "christian" will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive ---- many.

Jesus Christ states clearly it is the MANY that are deceived, that are lawless and yet the Many can not allow this into their minds.

for certain the Words of Christ can and are twisted to match what the lawless are willing to do

 

[Dino246]

How can what Christ did, show us the Father's will to perfection -- not be what we are to follow, to DO?
and what Christ DID was obey the Torah to perfection which was and still IS His Father's will
Christ is telling those He does not know --- "THEY" are NOT doing the Father's Will -- but are LAWLESS which is what Iniquity IS!
Christ is pointing to the Many, not to the Few, that call HIM Lord and are doing many wonderful works in His Name.
These are christians and Christ states HE does not Know them!

Jesus Christ states clearly it is the MANY that are deceived, that are lawless and yet the Many can not allow this into their minds.

You have assumed that Jesus contrasted “many” with “few” in these passages.

He didn’t.

Don’t base your conclusions on things Jesus didn’t say.

 

[Soyeong]

You missed the point, which was/is that the correct direction for understanding Scripture is forward:
interpret the OT in light of the NT (Heb. 7:11-10:1), not the reverse.

The whole Bible is true, so no part of it should be interpreted in a way that contradicts another part. The Apostles quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to support what they were saying, so they were writing commentary on the OT.

 

[memberofthebride]

You have assumed that Jesus contrasted “many” with “few” in these passages.

He didn’t.

Don’t base your conclusions on things Jesus didn’t say.

Not sure how to understand --

there are "the many" but there is a difference? the few can also be the many or is it the many can also be the few??

Jesus Christ called those the Father calls to HIM -- His little flock!

32 Fear {5737} not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Logically from this Statement from the mouth of Jesus Christ I must believe those that the Father gave to Christ to be His Bride, are FEW IN NUMBER --i.e. the Few.

it is the FEW that are given the Kingdom, ---- not the many that are lawless.

question, how many of the 45,000 would agree with what you believe to be the truth?
my guess, there would be 2 billion different ideals as to what is Truth.

And we are told to be of ONE MIND!

 

[GWH]

The whole Bible is true, so no part of it should be interpreted in a way that contradicts another part. The Apostles quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to support what they were saying, so they were writing commentary on the OT.

Scripture is true, and the true interpretation of GW is true when done in the forward direction indicated by Heb. 7:11-10:1,
not contradicting the Gospel with OT laws, which is the way/direction Jesus and the Apostles went/commented.
You should do/go the same/way.

 

[Soyeong]

Scripture is true, and the true interpretation of GW is true when done in the forward direction indicated by Heb. 7:11-10:1,
not contradicting the Gospel with OT laws, which is the way/direction Jesus and the Apostles went/commented.
You should do/go the same/way.

All of Scripture is true, so the Gospel shiny be interpreted as contradicting OT laws and vice versa. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and OT laws were how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to them is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace.