Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[Inquisitor]

If Israel had obeyed they would own the world right now and it would be like the Garden of Eden. God would have blessed them beyond measure.

The specific promises were made to Israel, the nation, if they obeyed the covenant.

Deuteronomy 28:3-4
Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country. Blessed shall be the fruit of your body,
the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

Not a good deal for the Gentile nations as only Israel was chosen.

No promise made to Israel that they would own the world.

Nor was there a promise to Israel that the world would be like the Garden of Eden.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away before any of the law . The earth is still here so is the Law . Fulfilling the law is another way to say Doing the law or keeping the law . He did it on our behalf so in that sense he did it for us . He who knew no sin was made sin for us . The law must remain or there is no sin . Or sinners . The proof the law is still in effect. Just a few thoughts I have on it .

According to Hebrews the first covenant has passed and a new covenant was enacted by Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:13
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing
old is ready to disappear.

What was the first covenant that was obsolete?

The first covenant was based on the book of the law which includes everything the Lord spoke.

Here is the first covenant below and includes the ten commandments.

Exodus 24:7-8
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said, “All that the Lord has
spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” So Moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, and said,
“Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

The New Covenant is not based on the words of the covenant that Moses wrote in Exodus 24.

Now read carefully what the author of Hebrews states about the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:11-14
Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that
time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time
those who are sanctified.

Members of the New Covenant are perfected forever by that one perfect sacrifice that Jesus performed.

There are folk on this forum that will force you into obeying all the words, or part thereof, that God spoke
under the old covenant to the Jews.

They do not recognize the old covenant is obsolete and all the words God spoke are obsolete also.

 

[Inquisitor]

First thing for Gentiles who desire to hold fast to the Sabbath on the 7th day, go ahead and do so if you feel convicted to do so as a blessing comes with it (Isaiah 56:3–8)

No, a Gentile in the 1st Century must be circumcised and be living in Israel to join that first covenant.

That first covenant was between God and Israel and that first covenant did not include the Gentile nations.

A Gentile today cannot join the first commandment because that first covenant was obsolete, 2000 years ago.

No one can obey all the words, or part thereof, that God spoke in the first covenant.

It is impossible to obey a sabbath commandment today because that was a commandment in that
obsolete, first covenant.

 

[GWH]

do you not understand the OT NEVER offered salvation,
never offered eternal life,
never offered forgiveness.

the OT was physical blessings for obedience and death for transgressions. period -- it saved not ONE, never meant to save.
Lev. 26: 1 - 39 read it see if what it offered.

If Israel had obeyed they would own the world right now and it would be like the Garden of Eden. God would have blessed them beyond measure.

keeping the Torah/Commandments is required -- it is our duty, no reward for doing what is expected of a person.

I do not kill anyone --- what is my reward?? none, it is expected of me.

Do you believe God the Father will allow into HIS Family liars, thief's, an adulterer, a person that lust after what another has like Satan is doing right now?

Satan transgresses every Commandment, every Word out of the Mouth of God --- I will state for certain Satan will never be allowed near the Kingdom and neither will any that will not obey what God has determined is righteousness.

Obeying is required, not an option, no reward. we are required to live by every WORD.

We will be rewarded for growth, what we produce in our lives, in us -- remember the parable of the pound?

I keep the Commandments and I only want to be around others that do also --- do you want to be close friends with those that transgress the Commandments? Do you want your children to be liars, crooks, I can't believe any one would.

God wants righteous children, each of us has the right to say no, but God the giver of life will say by by.

Re "do you not understand the OT NEVER offered salvation, never offered eternal life, never offered forgiveness":
This is where interpreting the OT in light of the NT is revealed as being the right way to understand Scripture.
The NT indicates that OT folks were indeed offered salvation (in Rom. 1:20, 2:6-16, 4:1-8, 9:4-8, 10:5-18, 11:1-7),
although this truth was expressed in terms of longevity rather than eternal life, and the requirement was stated
as obedience of laws instead of cooperation with the Holy Spirit.

God knows who is in His family, but those who do not manifest the fruit of His Spirit probably do not qualify,
because genuine saving faith begins with repentance from sinful ignorance of His Word. When Christians sin,
they should immediately confess, and God will forgive them of all sins per 1John 1:9. Jesus said faith would be
known by love (John 13:34-35), not by keeping every OT commandment perfectly. Love summarizes righteousness.

I urge you not to ignore what Heb tells us as we sinners repent of ignoring GW, so that when Christ returns,
there will be no need for punishment with a rod of iron. Hebrews indicates that a reverse hermeneutic is perverse and
that the NT Gospel fulfills and overrides the OT concept of being saved by obeying Mosaic laws such as the Sabbath
(Heb. 7:11-10:1). Those who accept the Gospel receive the Holy Spirit per Jesus in John 14-16 (cf. 1John 2:20-3:24) and
per Jesus via Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1 & 8:1-15 (cf. Col. 2:16-17).

 

[tourist]

Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away before any of the law . The earth is still here so is the Law . Fulfilling the law is another way to say Doing the law or keeping the law . He did it on our behalf so in that sense he did it for us . He who knew no sin was made sin for us . The law must remain or there is no sin . Or sinners . The proof the law is still in effect. Just a few thoughts I have on it .

I fully concur with your estimate in this regard. Your synapsis is right on target.

 

[memberofthebride]

Re "do you not understand the OT NEVER offered salvation, never offered eternal life, never offered forgiveness":
This is where interpreting the OT in light of the NT is revealed as being the right way to understand Scripture.
The NT indicates tha
t OT folks were indeed offered salvation (in Rom. 1:20, 2:6-16, 4:1-8, 9:4-8, 10:5-18, 11:1-7),

although this truth was expressed in terms of longevity rather than eternal life, and the requirement was stated

as obedience of laws instead of cooperation with the Holy Spirit.

you confirmed what I wrote --- long physical life NOT eternal life,

what is called "salvation" by christianity today is either living in the 3rd heaven or eternal life, I am sure there are others.

here is the actual covenant. please point out where "salvation" is offered.

if they Had obeyed God would have physically blessed them, physical things

as Paul wrote the difference between the Old and the New are the blessing, the promises --
verses 1 -3 remain part of the New C but are now raised to the Spirit level -- in our minds.

1Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.

2Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.

3If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

4Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make [you] afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.

7And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.

8And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.

9For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.

10And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.

11And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

12And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

13I [am] the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.

 

[GWH]

you confirmed what I wrote --- long physical life NOT eternal life,

what is called "salvation" by christianity today is either living in the 3rd heaven or eternal life, I am sure there are others.

here is the actual covenant. please point out where "salvation" is offered.

if they Had obeyed God would have physically blessed them, physical things

as Paul wrote the difference between the Old and the New are the blessing, the promises --
verses 1 -3 remain part of the New C but are now raised to the Spirit level -- in our minds.

1Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.

2Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.

3If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;

4Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make [you] afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.

7And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.

8And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.

9For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.

10And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.

11And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

12And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

13I [am] the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.

Re "you confirmed what I wrote --- long physical life NOT eternal life": Yes, revelation progressed/moved forward/advanced/improved from the OT to the NT, which is why it is wrong to go in reverse.

In the passage you posted, salvation is indicated in verses 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.
The NT clarifies that such blessings foreshadow heaven.

 

[memberofthebride]

Re "you confirmed what I wrote --- long physical life NOT eternal life": Yes, revelation progressed/moved forward/advanced/improved from the OT to the NT, which is why it is wrong to go in reverse.

In the passage you posted, salvation is indicated in verses 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.
The NT clarifies that such blessings foreshadow heaven.

If rain in due season is salvation, then the Word of God can mean what ever anyone wants it to mean.
Actually that is the way it is done --- even on this blog --- 10 people have 15 interpretations of the same verse

 

[Roger316]

Remember the resurrection of Lazarus? It seems Mary and Martha believed in eternal life. Undoubtedly, they learned about eternal life from the OT.

 

[GWH]

If rain in due season is salvation, then the Word of God can mean what ever anyone wants it to mean.
Actually that is the way it is done --- even on this blog --- 10 people have 15 interpretations of the same verse

If you lived in the desert, you would understand why rain signifies salvation.

 

[memberofthebride]

If you lived in the desert, you would understand why rain signifies salvation.

so rain is what pays for our sins -- I'm a little confused by all this

 

[TMS]

Just wanted to clear some things up here, because I know the Sabbath is a hot topic for some people. First thing for Gentiles who desire to hold fast to the Sabbath on the 7th day, go ahead and do so if you feel convicted to do so as a blessing comes with it (Isaiah 56:3–8). However, please understand that as a Gentile, you are not required to uphold it on the seventh day. The seventh day is treated as a weekly high holy day by Jews across the world on the seventh day because it clearly states in Exodus 31:16–17 that the seventh day is a perpetual covenant between God and Jews (not the Gentiles). Early Gentiles believers would not and some could not adhere to the Sabbath seventh day of rest because they worked every day, especially slaves. But that was ok because that Mosiac covenant was not binding on them. Nonetheless, keeping the sabbath once a week no matter what day of the week it falls on has many benefits and it should be practiced for your benefit.

The fact is that before Israel, or Jew, before sin God made the 7th day HOLY.

The 7th day was sanctified and blessed by God at creation. It has not been changed and it was made for mankind. Not just the Jew.

You can make many excuses to forget the day God said to rest on or you can keep it Holy as He intended.

When was the Sabbath made?
Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No other day has been blessed or sanctified. Only the 7th day has the blessing of God.

 

[Roger316]

The point is this. God commanded Israel to remember the Sabbath day. He didn't command us to do that.

 

[BBerean]

Yes well said ! Also The Sabbath was put into the law because of transgressions against the Sabbath that preceded the Jews . It is said Abraham kept Gods Laws Genesis 26 .

 

[BBerean]

The point is this. God commanded Israel to remember the Sabbath day. He didn't command us to do that.

Then you must be free to commit Adultery? It’s the same Law is it not ? God did command them not to commit Adultery. How does it not apply to Gentiles just the same ? I see no argument here . Just a neglect of the 4th commandment. My view on it .

 

[memberofthebride]

The point is this. God commanded Israel to remember the Sabbath day. He didn't command us to do that.

to be part of the New Covenant, a person must be a spiritual Israelite.

Jeremiah 31: 33 the two parties to the New C are Israel and God, not gentiles nor christians.

Did Christ observe the 7th Day or the First?
Did John or Peter observe the First day??
yes John and Peter are from the Tribe of Judah, but they are the first members in the Body of Christ and they observed and taught the Torah.

Was Peter not eating unclean meat even after Christ has returned to His Father?

Contrary to common doctrine --- Paul obeyed the Law/Torah.

21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things,

whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

So either Paul kept the Torah in secret and taught the Jews and the Gentiles they did not need to -- making Paul a hypocrite, or Paul taught all Jews and Gentiles they needed to walk according to the Torah.

Paul did teach the Jews circumcision was not a requirement for salvation which did causes problems for some Jews.
Circumcision is fine -- but has nothing to do with eternal life.

 

[BBerean]

to be part of the New Covenant, a person must be a spiritual Israelite.

Jeremiah 31: 33 the two parties to the New C are Israel and God, not gentiles nor christians.

Did Christ observe the 7th Day or the First?
Did John or Peter observe the First day??
yes John and Peter are from the Tribe of Judah, but they are the first members in the Body of Christ and they observed and taught the Torah.

Was Peter not eating unclean meat even after Christ has returned to His Father?

Contrary to common doctrine --- Paul obeyed the Law/Torah.

21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things,

whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

So either Paul kept the Torah in secret and taught the Jews and the Gentiles they did not need to -- making Paul a hypocrite, or Paul taught all Jews and Gentiles they needed to walk according to the Torah.

Paul did teach the Jews circumcision was not a requirement for salvation which did causes problems for some Jews.
Circumcision is fine -- but has nothing to do with eternal life.

I just read some interesting passage in John chapter 12 when Jesus is going into Jerusalem v 20 And there were certain GREEKS among them that came up to worship at the feast v 21 the same came therefore to Philip , which was of Bethesda of Galilee , and desired him to, Sir , WE WOULD SEE JESUS.
Jesus speaking v 26 IF ANY MAN serve me , let him follow me : and where I am there shall also my servant be ; if ANY MAN serve me , HIM will my Father honour .

Read the whole passage, but here we can see the Gentiles are included by Jesus and the Father . If they follow in obedience.

 

[memberofthebride]

I just read some interesting passage in John chapter 12 when Jesus is going into Jerusalem v 20 And there were certain GREEKS among them that came up to worship at the feast v 21 the same came therefore to Philip , which was of Bethesda of Galilee , and desired him to, Sir , WE WOULD SEE JESUS.
Jesus speaking v 26 IF ANY MAN serve me , let him follow me : and where I am there shall also my servant be ; if ANY MAN serve me , HIM will my Father honour .

Read the whole passage, but here we can see the Gentiles are included by Jesus and the Father . If they follow in obedience.

The main problem within christianity, in the main, is it's unwillingness to obey and not just a few words but every Word coming from the mouth of Jesus Christ i.e. the O T and the N T

The human mind is very capable of twisting words to mean what ever they want them to mean.

Paul is going to be blown away when he sees what has been done with his letters.

 

[Roger316]

Then you must be free to commit Adultery? It’s the same Law is it not ? God did command them not to commit Adultery. How does it not apply to Gentiles just the same ? I see no argument here . Just a neglect of the 4th commandment. My view on it .

Where I live, there is no law against adultery.

 

[Roger316]

to be part of the New Covenant, a person must be a spiritual Israelite.

Jeremiah 31: 33 the two parties to the New C are Israel and God, not gentiles nor christians.

Good Point, in my opinion.

Did Christ observe the 7th Day or the First?

Jesus declared himself to be Lord of the Sabbath, and he wasn't talking about a day of the week.

Did John or Peter observe the First day??
yes John and Peter are from the Tribe of Judah, but they are the first members in the Body of Christ and they observed and taught the Torah.

They were living under the Mt. Sinai covenant.

So either Paul kept the Torah in secret and taught the Jews and the Gentiles they did not need to -- making Paul a hypocrite, or Paul taught all Jews and Gentiles they needed to walk according to the Torah.

There is a third alternative. Paul rested on Saturday, but didn't teach the Gentiles to rest on a day of the week.

Paul did teach the Jews circumcision was not a requirement for salvation which did causes problems for some Jews.
Circumcision is fine -- but has nothing to do with eternal life.

Good point.