Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

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This post of yours looks like it is quoting me but I did not say what is quoted. How did this happen???

When you click the link to see my original post it is a Scripture panel only, with the citation and verse given underneath ("invisible").
I don't know how it happened. When I saw your name, I quit the post (after copying my diatribe) and started again. I thought that had corrected it. Obviously not.

Every now and again, it seems as if the screen is so slow to update that I end up typing in the wrong panel. I normally pick it up, but not this time. My apologies.
 
I do not see "obsolete": declared old, vanishing, yes. It requires both parties to declare a contract/covenant null and void. unless there was a clause stating God could on His own, void the contract, He can not and there is no clause for that.
Your reply was a contradiction of a fact that you will readily admit to.

It is not possible to say that the old covenant is not obsolete given you readily disregard some 600 laws
in the old covenant. No one can claim the old covenant is still in force and throw the book of the covenant
away. The old covenant is solely based on that book of the covenant, the entire law spoken by the Lord.

You also know full well that Jesus fulfilled the law in it's entirety.

If the old covenant was still in force then you would be required to obey the entire law.

That is the old covenant between God and Israel all 613 laws.

Yet, you freely admit that you do not obey almost everything the Lord said at Mt Sinai.

Your contradicting yourself.

How can you sleep at night knowing you don't obey the old covenant law?
 
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I would like it ckick
But It great Joy to be contested in Him cus of Him i pretty sure they no like Jesus word Eithe

Your reply was a contradiction of a fact that you will readily admit to.

It is not possible to say that the old covenant is not obsolete given you readily disregard some 600 laws
in the old covenant. No one can claim the old covenant is still in force and throw the book of the covenant
away. The old covenant is solely based on that book of the covenant, the entire law spoken by the Lord.

You also know full well that Jesus fulfilled the law in it's entirety.

If the old covenant was still in force then you would be required to obey the entire law.

That is the old covenant between God and Israel all 613 laws.

Yet, you freely admit that you do not obey almost everything the Lord said at Mt Sinai.

Your contradicting yourself.

How can you sleep at night knowing you don't obey the old covenant law?
"You also know full well that Jesus fulfilled the law in it's entirety."
what does the word "fulfill" actually mean? you want it to ended the law.

pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

none of the 4 definitions in Strong's mean end or abolish, "to make full" is what it means which Christ did.
it was only physical, Christ raised it, filled it up to be spiritual as well which He explains in chapter 5, the Torah is now complete, full.
reading Matthew 5 Christ states clearly 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
Think NOT! twice Christ said that! Chapter 5 alone proves the Torah is in force.

Yet, you freely admit that you do not obey almost everything the Lord said at Mt Sinai
Sorry I do not remember saying that, actually I do obey all that are possible.
I do not eat unclean meat, I keep the Sabbath and the 7 Holy Feasts of GOD, I tithe,
Christ's one sacrifice ended the Sacrificial Law which was added because of sin, so i do not offer animals as sacrifices, Christ shed blood paid for all my sins.
As there is no Temple, nothing related is possible.
I observe the Commandments

you can make all these accusation but I never see those that demand the Just and Holy Righteous Law of GOD ever use the words of Jesus Christ that command obeying the 10 Commandments and the Torah.

Never has one Law hater quoted this scripture.
27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus Christ IS GOD, HE made man, thus the Words in the O T AND the Words in the N T are His WORDS and He states we must keep, do, obey every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

where does Christ say except the Commandments and the Torah?

I obey Christ --- bring forth His exact words, from His mouth stating He came to, in effect, end the whole Law of God, abolish the Torah.

14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

My hope is a few will repent of their sins, transgressions of the Law,--
His return is so close, the whole world is crumbling, soon food will be scarce and very expensive, this year.
 
The whole thing is really quite simple , yet men make it so confusing!

Jesus lived a sinless life . Fulfilled the Fathers will . Died for the sins of the world , by shedding his blood. Therefore the offences past that broke the law are put away . Jesus was raised by God because he was not a sinner . Therefore justification through his resurrection to those that repent to follow Jesus and not their former sinful ways .
“If thou shalt confess with thy mouth and believe in thy heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead thou shalt be saved . “ you can look up the quote in the NT . Confusion is of the devil .
 
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The whole thing is really quite simple , yet men make it so confusing!

Jesus lived a sinless life . Fulfilled the Fathers will . Died for the sins of the world , by shedding his blood. Therefore the offences past that broke the law are put away . Jesus was raised by God because he was not a sinner . Therefore justification through his resurrection to those that repent to follow Jesus and not their former sinful ways .
“If thou shalt confess with thy mouth and believe in thy heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead thou shalt be saved . “ you can look up the quote in the NT . Confusion is of the devil .
Romans chapter 10 v8 - 13 read more of the chapter as well the Truth shall set you free ! Amen!
 
Romans chapter 10 v8 - 13 read more of the chapter as well the Truth shall set you free ! Amen!

Words that that I have come to dislike:
Words I believe hide what the shed blood of Jesus Christ actually did for mankind and me.

"justification", propitiation, forgive --there are too many.

The Death of Christ was payment for our sins. there is no forgiveness, either each of us must die because we have sinned against God or Christ dies instead of us.

A debt is 'justified' when payment is made.

If you own me money and I forgive the debt - there is no payment made. Christ paid in full with His Life.

I do not believe there are any that really understand what Christ gave up.
He is our Maker! He and the Father have no beginning, they are the only two beings that have no beginning -- and Christ died.

Pardon means the law is being set aside, God's Law can not be set aside, if not, so Christ did not need to die.

Jesus Christ gave up being IMMORTAL, gave up existing for ever. the ONE who made us, for 3 days and 3 night did not exist,

After existing forever -- He was dead 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

It has taken me almost 60 years to begin to understand what our PASSOVER did for ME, what He gave up for me, so I could be with Him and with the Father for ever.
 
"You also know full well that Jesus fulfilled the law in it's entirety."
what does the word "fulfill" actually mean? you want it to ended the law.

pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

none of the 4 definitions in Strong's mean end or abolish, "to make full" is what it means which Christ did.
it was only physical, Christ raised it, filled it up to be spiritual as well which He explains in chapter 5, the Torah is now complete, full.
reading Matthew 5 Christ states clearly 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
Think NOT! twice Christ said that! Chapter 5 alone proves the Torah is in force.

I highlighted the part where you add to the meaning of scripture. In these examples:

Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced...
And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

In the above examples, the same word is used, pléroó, yet there is nothing to add to what has been completed. And that's the definition of the word fulfill: "to complete, to fill up". You added "Jesus made the law spiritual". Once you take that away your whole doctrine falls apart.

David, in Psalm 19, already declared the law "perfect":

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple"

David declared, by the Spirit of God, that nothing is needed for it to fulfill its intended purpose.

Paul takes the law out of the equation completely and says

"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed..."
So he sets the law "over there" and declares that the righteousness of God exists in a place where the law is not, where it does not function...

"..being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

This is what "propitiation" means: a substitute that satisfies the original debt.

And just to be clear: the writer of Hebrews for what Christ was propitiation:

"Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."

Now, sin is defined by the law. It is faith in Christ as our propitiation for sin that saves us from condemnation: His life and His death.
It is not faith in His behavior that saves us, it is faith in Him, Himself, the person of Christ, that saves us. He is our propitiation.
 
Jesus Christ gave up being IMMORTAL, gave up existing for ever. the ONE who made us, for 3 days and 3 night did not exist,

Not true. He "has no beginning or end"... only His flesh died.

Jesus was God in the flesh of man. His body of flesh died but His Spirit never died. Indeed, Our Lord ministered to the dead by His Spirit:

"..by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared..."
 
Not true. He "has no beginning or end"... only His flesh died.

Jesus was God in the flesh of man. His body of flesh died but His Spirit never died. Indeed, Our Lord ministered to the dead by His Spirit:

"..by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared..."


The flesh can not save!

IF GOD did not die for us then our payment for sin has not been paid,

my death can not pay for your sins, only mine own.

You are greatly minimizing the sacrifice Christ made for man,


7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The flesh is nothing -- it is a temporary dwelling place,, for Christ to give up a temporary place He dwells in ---- is nothing!

His Spirit returned to the Father, just like our spirit.. we are NOT immortal souls. If that were so then God could not give us the Gift of eternal life as we would already have it.

you are giving me the doctrines of Rome --- which I hate.

" while the ark was ""being prepared."" did you not read this??

Christ preached to the spirits ----- while the ark was being prepared. Not while dead for 3 days and 3 nights.


Folks always read in to scripture what they want it to say

I stand by what I wrote
 
The flesh can not save!

IF GOD did not die for us then our payment for sin has not been paid,

my death can not pay for your sins, only mine own.

You are greatly minimizing the sacrifice Christ made for man,


7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The flesh is nothing -- it is a temporary dwelling place,, for Christ to give up a temporary place He dwells in ---- is nothing!

His Spirit returned to the Father, just like our spirit.. we are NOT immortal souls. If that were so then God could not give us the Gift of eternal life as we would already have it.

you are giving me the doctrines of Rome --- which I hate.

" while the ark was ""being prepared."" did you not read this??

Christ preached to the spirits ----- while the ark was being prepared. Not while dead for 3 days and 3 nights.


Folks always read in to scripture what they want it to say

I stand by what I wrote

Sheesh!

Here's the whole passage:

18"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."

The "ark" reference is tied to the time Noah, not Christ. It could signify that the spirits in prison were from Noah's time, but Christ preached to them after His Spirit left His body while on the cross. This MUST have happened after His sacrifice otherwise there is no new thing to preach to the prisoners, they would have remained condemned in their sins.

Any way, since you could not hear it, you seem firmly committed to your current level of understanding. So, "Good luck with that".
 
Hebrews 9 v 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God , purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Verse 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood ; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I’d read chapter 9 and 10 of Hebrews for a better understanding.
 
Sheesh!

Here's the whole passage:

18"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."

The "ark" reference is tied to the time Noah, not Christ. It could signify that the spirits in prison were from Noah's time, but Christ preached to them after His Spirit left His body while on the cross. This MUST have happened after His sacrifice otherwise there is no new thing to preach to the prisoners, they would have remained condemned in their sins.

Any way, since you could not hear it, you seem firmly committed to your current level of understanding. So, "Good luck with that".

translations differ, here is the NKJV

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
"by a resurrection to spirit"

Was He not resurrected into Spirit? That is the hope we are given by His death and resurrection.
If Christ's physical body died but He was alive as a spirit ---- there is no need for a resurrection to spirit!

Our physical body dies and are we resurrected as spirit into the same spirit body as Christ has now. See Philippians 3: 21

If Christ had been resurrected back to a physical body, I pass I have had enough of this body of pain and death.

He was made flesh and blood so He could die, He had the Father's spirit with out measure, But He was not a Spirit until He rose from death.

How can one rise from death if they are not dead?


19 ""After"" being made alive, After being made alive into Spirit in the spirit, then after being made alive

19 in which also he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

I believe this is the only reference about preaching to the spirits
Attempting to make hard and fast doctrines from one hard to translate scripture in not a good Idea.

Here is one point I believe you are missing --- if Christ did not die --- if He was alive as spirit and went to the spirits to give them a message --- there is no point in Him rising from death as a spirit - if he was always a spirit?

How do you rise from death if you are not dead?
explain how that makes sense.
If I am an immortal soul, I do not need to be resurrected to eternal life and neither would Christ.

Another thought just came.
Would Christ have gone to the imprisoned spirits before He was accepted by the Father on sunday morning? He was accepted after He was Resurrected.

Nope, until His sacrifice was accepted, Christ would not have done any thing, He did not even want the women to touch Him.
 
translations differ, here is the NKJV

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. "by a resurrection to spirit"

Was He not resurrected into Spirit? That is the hope we are given by His death and resurrection.
If Christ's physical body died but He was alive as a spirit ---- there is no need for a resurrection to spirit!

Our physical body dies and are we resurrected as spirit into the same spirit body as Christ has now. See Philippians 3: 21

If Christ had been resurrected back to a physical body, I pass I have had enough of this body of pain and death.

He was made flesh and blood so He could die, He had the Father's spirit with out measure, But He was not a Spirit until He rose from death.

How can one rise from death if they are not dead?


19 ""After"" being made alive, After being made alive into Spirit in the spirit, then after being made alive

19 in which also he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

I believe this is the only reference about preaching to the spirits
Attempting to make hard and fast doctrines from one hard to translate scripture in not a good Idea.

Here is one point I believe you are missing --- if Christ did not die --- if He was alive as spirit and went to the spirits to give them a message --- there is no point in Him rising from death as a spirit - if he was always a spirit?

How do you rise from death if you are not dead?
explain how that makes sense.
If I am an immortal soul, I do not need to be resurrected to eternal life and neither would Christ.

Another thought just came.
Would Christ have gone to the imprisoned spirits before He was accepted by the Father on sunday morning? He was accepted after He was Resurrected.

Nope, until His sacrifice was accepted, Christ would not have done any thing, He did not even want the women to touch Him.

let me add to the last thought, It was the Father that raised Christ from death to Spirit and until Christ was raise from death as a Spirit He could not return to the 3rd heaven to be accepted by the Father.

There is no possible way during the 3 days and 3 nights Christ did anything.
 
translations differ, here is the NKJV

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. "by a resurrection to spirit"

Was He not resurrected into Spirit?

Follow me here:

The reason "made a line in the Spirit" is important (and why it is written here, is because in the same fashion Jesus was made alive, man is made alive: in the Spirit. Neither the Spirit in Jesus nor the spirit in men changes: all are of God and eternal.

All men have a spirit from God. It's what gives them life. Each spirit is a unique facet of the Living God. In the natural, what is given is lost. Unlike in the natural realm, a spirit may be given without diminishing the source.

The Spirit in Jesus, the man, was the Spirit of the One: God's Only Begotten Son (a title) e.g. The Messiah, The Anointed One. His Spirit uniquely represented the fullness of God. "God is Spirit" and the spirit within the man, Jesus, represented the fullness of God. Jesus condemned sin in the flesh.

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh..."

The flesh of Jesus was like the flesh of man; given to the same temptations and urges. He HAD to be like us, otherwise He could not become our propitiation: the fulfillment of our debt to sin. So, in a body like the bodies of all men, Jesus lived without sin and thus without the condemnation of death over His life.

But what if He is killed any way? What if someone kills the man Jesus, so that His body is no longer suitable to house the Spirit of the Messiah, the Only Begotten Son, in Him? He gives up His Spirit to God: commends His Spirit to the One Who gave it... just like man does when he dies EXCEPT, Jesus does so willingly and without the cause to die because of sin.

So what happens?

Now, after death, He stands in front of the spirits Death and Hell, His Spirit stands blameless: deserving neither of death nor the grave. So He disarms them!

"Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
He rids them of their right to rule over Him. Why? Because Death took a man Who did not sin and thus, not deserving of death, stood as righteous before God. And Hell could not keep Him as Hell can only keep a many rightfully condemned to die. Jesus was neither! So what does He say to them? "Give me your keys!" a.k.a. "Give my your right and authority to rule over men!"

"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

So, understanding that the original intent of creation was the fully house the estate of Son of God, what does God the Father do? He raises Jesus not as "Jesus the man" (a seed does not sprout into a seed but something else entirely) but as Christ, the Living God, the Everlasting Father etc.

(let me truncate this a bit)

And what of men in the flesh? They may identify in the likeness of His death - not in the life of the man Jesus - His death... man may, by faith, enter into the death of Jesus and by summarily raised to life by the same Spirit! Our deaths are not like His death: we only must give up our right to rule our own lives so that we may, in Christ, receive the resurrection from the dead: once as men condemned to die and then as men - having died in faith - no longer under the power of sin and death (Death and Hell).

To you last post:

"There is no possible way during the 3 days and 3 nights Christ did anything."

You cannot remain stuck in time when explaining Christ's Spirit. He was slain "from the foundation of the world"... this is in the eternal. Of course He appeared to us and in creation in the "fullness of time" but since the price was paid, the anointing by God was secured before creation was made.
 
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The reason "made a line in the Spirit" is important (and why it is written here, is because in the same fashion Jesus was made alive, man is made alive: in the Spirit. Neither the Spirit in Jesus nor the spirit in men changes: all are of God and eternal.

All men have a spirit from God. It's what gives them life. Each spirit is a unique facet of the Living God. In the natural, what is given is lost. Unlike in the natural realm, a spirit may be given without diminishing the source.

The Spirit in Jesus, the man, was the Spirit of the One: God's Only Begotten Son (a title) e.g. The Messiah, The Anointed One. His Spirit uniquely represented the fullness of God. "God is Spirit" and the spirit within the man, Jesus, represented the fullness of God. Jesus condemned sin in the flesh.

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh..."

The flesh of Jesus was like the flesh of man; given to the same temptations and urges. He HAD to be like us, otherwise He could not become our propitiation: the fulfillment of our debt to sin. So, in a body like the bodies of all men, Jesus lived without sin and thus without the condemnation of death over His life.

But what if He is killed any way? What if someone kills the man Jesus, so that His body is no longer suitable to house the Spirit of the Messiah, the Only Begotten Son, in Him? He gives up His Spirit to God: commends His Spirit to the One Who gave it... just like man does when he dies EXCEPT, Jesus does so willingly and without the cause to die because of sin.

So what happens?

Now, after death, He stands in front of the spirits Death and Hell, His Spirit stands blameless: deserving neither of death nor the grave. So He disarms them!

"Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
He rids them of their right to rule over Him. Why? Because Death took a man Who did not sin and thus, not deserving of death, stood as righteous before God. And Hell could not keep Him as Hell can only keep a many rightfully condemned to die. Jesus was neither! So what does He say to them? "Give me your keys!" a.k.a. "Give my your right and authority to rule over men!"

"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

So, understanding that the original intent of creation was the fully house the estate of Son of God, what does God the Father do? He raises Jesus not as "Jesus the man" (a seed does not sprout into a seed but something else entirely) but as Christ, the Living God, the Everlasting Father etc.

(let me truncate this a bit)

And what of men in the flesh? They may identify in the likeness of His death - not in the life of the man Jesus - His death... man may, by faith, enter into the death of Jesus and by summarily raised to life by the same Spirit! Our deaths are not like His death: we only must give up our right to rule our own lives so that we may, in Christ, receive the resurrection from the dead: once as men condemned to die and then as men - having died in faith - no longer under the power of sin and death (Death and Hell).

To you last post:

"There is no possible way during the 3 days and 3 nights Christ did anything."

You cannot remain stuck in time when explaining Christ's Spirit. He was slain "from the foundation of the world"... this is in the eternal. Of course He appeared to us and in creation in the "fullness of time" but since the price was paid, the anointing by God was secured before creation was made.

Wow, I will let Jesus Christ explain this to you, I can not "Fix" what they have taught you.
 
let me add to the last thought, It was the Father that raised Christ from death to Spirit and until Christ was raise from death as a Spirit He could not return to the 3rd heaven to be accepted by the Father.

There is no possible way during the 3 days and 3 nights Christ did anything.
Jesus rose in the flesh , anti Christ denies Jesus is come in the flesh , before and after his resurrection. End of discussion.
 
Jesus rose in the flesh , anti Christ denies Jesus is come in the flesh , before and after his resurrection. End of discussion.
I pass, no thank you very much

Are you saying Christ went to the 3rd heaven in a body of flesh?
if so,That is a new one i have never heard before and never want to again.

I KNOW Christ came to earth as a physical flesh and blood man, He was raised from death a spirit 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
I have only one teacher of Promise .I don't like to use Words blacks law talk to me ask .I share but go find on you own But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead Dwell in you, He that raised up
I just realized my Education is not What I use anymore He hates God
Ok u no understand all that matters is u got washed let Jesus HS anointing ,I call it
abode in.you . The flesh will die hs Seed to His Life to Glory to Glory