Reconciled to God while enemies !

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Granted, we were chosen before the foundation of the world. But consider that God is creating our story. We are the hero of our own story. Our road to Salvation, we experience moment by moment and decision by decision.

Nevertheless, paying attention to verb tenses and temporal aspects of a Biblical text are among the demands of proper hermeneutics. When Paul says that Christ died while we were his enemies, he doesn't refer to any of us because we weren't alive when Christ was crucified. Paul isn't saying that we were reconciled 2,000 years ago, he is saying that there is no other person in all of creation that is the basis for our reconciliation. In short, Jesus Christ is the sole means for our reconciliation.

But we must all reconcile with God while it is still called "today."

I would disagree. We are not our own "hero": Christ alone is the "hero". We are but the recipients of what He, as the Savior, achieved on behalf of His chosen, and which, He freely bequeaths to them in its fullness at a time of His choosing. God knew before the foundation of the world, individually, whom He would save, otherwise, He couldn't have stated what He did Eph 1 and throughout all of Scripture.
In Romans 5 (and in prior chapters), Paul's purpose and focus, I believe, was to illuminate doctrine, not establish the timing of events. or the "temporal aspects" relative to those people to whom He was speaking. Were that his intentions, then the purpose of whole chapter would be devoted to, and limited specifically to them, and not be to teach the timeless full council of the gospel of God's salvation by His grace alone, and unworthy as edification for all of the Saints (remember God moved Paul to write what He wanted written and that was to illuminate His gospel - as established in Act 9:15 and Act 22:14-15, following).
I think this can be seen by the "Wherefore" in vs 5:12 which ties the verses prior to it with it and the verses that follow after it (5:12 - 5:21). They demonstrate that the full chapter is of one context and to edify of God's judgment and salvation.

[Act 9:15 KJV] 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

[Act 22:14-15 KJV]
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
 
No you dont believe Rom 5:10. you oppose it
Your interpretation is wrong because it fails to understand the absurdity of your premise that you and I were alive when Christ was crucified. Christ didn't die while WE were his enemies because WE were not alive then.
 
The we implies believers, and whoever becomes a believer, everyone Jesus died for.
While it is true that Christ died for all believers, it is not true that he died while each of them was alive. Christ didn't die while WE were his enemies because WE weren't alive yet.
 
While it is true that Christ died for all believers, it is not true that he died while each of them was alive. Christ didn't die while WE were his enemies because WE weren't alive yet.
You just as confused as all get back, all because you dont believe the plain truth
 
You misunderstood what Paul said. Christ died 2000 years ago. None of us was alive when Christ died. Therefore, when Paul says that Christ died while we were enemies, he is talking about himself and his Jewish contemporaries.

No. I think you've misunderstood Rom 5:10.
It does not just say that "Christ died while we were enemies" and stop there (per your rendition); instead, it says, "when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God". Do you see the difference? It is the reconciliation that occurs while we are enemies, not Christ's death. By including the complete verse, it makes the interpretation completely different from what you came up with. I can try to clarify further if you'd like.

Here is the verse according to several translations:

[Rom 5:10 KJV] 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is confirmed by the next verse

[Rom 5:11 KJV] 11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

[Rom 5:10-11 NIV]
10 For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

[Rom 5:10-11 ESV]
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
 
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No. I think you've misunderstood Rom 5:10.
It does not just say that "Christ died while we were enemies" and stop there (per your rendition); instead, it says, "when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God". Do you see the difference? It is the reconciliation that occurs while we are enemies, not Christ's death. By including the complete verse, it makes the interpretation completely different from what you came up with. I can try to clarify further if you'd like.

Here is the verse according to several translations:

[Rom 5:10 KJV] 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is confirmed by the next verse

[Rom 5:11 KJV] 11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

[Rom 5:10-11 NIV]
10 For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

[Rom 5:10-11 ESV]
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
We weren't alive when Jesus died on the cross. So, no, he did not die while we were his enemies.
 
Correct, there could not have been any reconciliation unless their sins have been removed away, thats legal salvation, forgiveness of sins. Also which I will discuss later, the legal reconciliation ensures to be saved by His Life. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So they're connected
It's not salvation. It is removal of the debt. That does not save any more than it saved the unforgiving servant in Matt.18:21-35

The reconciliation is from God's side of things. He has forgiven the debt of every man. Now the wrath of God rests only on the sons of disobedience, the ones who reject Christ which is why, as @ChristRoseFromTheDead pointed out, Paul appeals to people to be reconciled to God and that is done by faith in Christ, then there is salvation.
 
We weren't alive when Jesus died on the cross. So, no, he did not die while we were his enemies.

we weren't alive then, but by His death (when it occurred) by that death, we became reconciled later.
iow It means Christ’s death was the means by which reconciliation occurs, but does not mean
that His death occurred at the time of the reconciliation
 
We weren't alive when Jesus died on the cross. So, no, he did not die while we were his enemies.

Correct, we were not His enemies then, but all who are born into this world become His enemies by Adam's sin,
and His elect, become reconciled.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
Not really. Again, reconciliation is not one-sided. I don't cease being God's enemy until I cease being God's enemy.

The Bible teaches an existential faith. That is, while Christ died for the whole world, his death doesn't apply to me, personally, unless I surrender, repent, and acknowledge that God has assigned Jesus to be my advocate.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled [Greek = katallassō] to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled [Greek = katallassō], we shall be saved by his life.

The word "reconciled" in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son. God does not change.

The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes (therefore being justified by faithRom 5:1 ... justified by His bloodRom 5:9). At that point, the person "changed" his or her position and is reconciled to God ... both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (both God and the person are reconciled ... i.e. Greek katallássō).

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not provided all that is necessary for them to be reconciled, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the reconciliation ... there is no other way.

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is reconciliation to God.

If a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ ... who is the Way, the Truth, the Life ... there is no reconciliation with God because the party of the second part is not in agreement with God (the Party of the first part).


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What the adversaries of Truth have failed to acknowledge, and is why they are guilty of diminishing the Merit's of Christ's Death alone, apart from the application work of the Spirit, that is, even though these Christ died for, and by His Death did reconcile them to God Legally, even while they are being enemies; while others, whom Christ did not die for, and while they are being enemies, they are under God's Wrath and Condemnation as Per Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Now clearly the only difference from one group being reconciled to God while being enemies, and another group being under God's Wrath and Condemnation while being enemies, the only difference is the Death of Christ ! If this cannot be acknowledged then we are against Christ, against His Death, against His Blood, and The Accomplishments of it before the Law and Justice of God for those He died for !
 
It's not salvation. It is removal of the debt.
That is salvation, saved from the legal debt of sin, this person or persons will never go to hell for their sins and unbelief, all is paid for, and forgiven. Now there will be more salvific blessings given them, but that's premised on them being reconciled to God and all their sins taken away.
 
That is salvation, saved from the legal debt of sin, this person or persons will never go to hell for their sins and unbelief, all is paid for, and forgiven. Now there will be more salvific blessings given them, but that's premised on them being reconciled to God and all their sins taken away.
Nope. The unforgiving servant had his debt removed, he was not saved.
 
Correct, we were not His enemies then, but all who are born into this world become His enemies by Adam's sin,
and His elect, become reconciled.

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I agree, we are born enemies. And I agree that Jesus Christ is the sole basis for our reconciliation.

Nevertheless, the original post claimed that Christ died for a limited group of individuals who cannot be under condemnation because Christ died for them while they were his enemies.


Quote from original post:
All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

I take issue with that argument because it is based on a faulty assumption. Let me explain. The statement concludes that those for whom Christ died are not under condemnation because he died for them while they were his enemies. The problem is two-fold. First, Paul doesn't argue that Christ died only for a few, select, human beings. Second, most Christians down through history weren't God's enemies when Christ died.

So what does Paul mean by "we" when he talks about God's enemies? The first-person plural "we" doesn't refer to us as individuals; so it must refer to humanity in general. Christ died while humanity was God's enemy.

In Romans 5:9-11, Paul is making a simple argument in the form "if A, then much more B." He is arguing from the greater to the lesser. That is, given that Jesus died to secure reconciliation between God and man while we were his enemies, it is much more likely that he will save those who have become his friends.