Colossians 2:16-17 Let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
Some thoughts on the Sabbath...
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Colossians 2:16-17 Let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
1 Timothy v8 But we know that the LAW is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the LAWLESS and INSUBORDINATE, for the ungodly and for the sinners , for the unholy and profane , for murders of mothers , for manslayers, for fornicators,for sodomites, for kidnappers , for liars , for perjurers, AND IF THERE IS ANY OTHER THING CONTRARY TO SOUND DOCTRINE…. NKJV
Obviously this is to Jew and Gentiles. To say the Sabbath is not according to sound doctrine would be erroneous.
Obviously this is to Jew and Gentiles. To say the Sabbath is not according to sound doctrine would be erroneous.
Here is more scripture on the validity of the Law of which the Sabbath is 4th from the top .
Apostle Paul is speaking to the Gentile church in Corinthians 1
Let your women keep silence in the churches , for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be SUBMISSIVE, as the LAW also says .
If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let HIM acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the COMMANDMENTS of the Lord. But if any one is ignorant , let him be ignorant . NKJV
Here we see Paul using the authority of the Law in a gentiles church, giving the Lords COMMANDMENTS, not suggestions .
How well is this done in churches today ?
Why is it ? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. Just the ones we choose ?
That is simply not true. Justin Martyr referred to Sunday worship in the second century. The transition was not immediate or universal. It is of no interest to God which day believers choose to meet. God looks at the heart attitude, not outward observance. Sunday is convenient for most people. It is also the day that Lord Jesus rose from the dead.
Paul acknowledge that the gentiles were not subject to the law: "To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law." 1 Corinthians 9:21. Since gentiles have never considered the sabbath as anything, Paul did not insist on sabbath day worship for gentiles.
If you want to worship on Friday evening to Saturday nightfall, that is fine. When you turn that into a rule to follow for other believers, that is false doctrine.
Don't be a tool...
She knows more about scripture than you have evidenced, so far.
You SDA's seem to come in waves.... we won't hear anything from you for a while, then several show up at once... do you guys get some sort of handout or something?
The early church met in worship and to break bread on the first day of the week... referred to as "the Lord's day"..... historically undeniable. Do you think the apostles and disciples that lived and walked with Jesus somehow got it wrong?
Keeping the law by your own strength is death and will lead to failure.
Keeping the law by the Spirit of God within us leads to righteousness.
Not our own righteousness. No glory to us because it is God working in us.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The law is Spiritual and good.
But the flesh is not able to obey it.
Rom 7:12-14 KJV 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
By God's power we can obey the law but only by faith in God's Spirit.
The paragraph you quoted I gave to AI and AI did an excellent analysis of the text.
A common way to read First Epistle to Timothy 1:5–11 in the broader context of Paul the Apostle is that
Paul is distinguishing between:
Using the Law rightly (“lawfully”), and
Using the Law wrongly (as speculative, identity-forming, or self-righteous teaching).
That distinction matters because elsewhere Paul says things like:
believers are “not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14),
a person is not justified by works of the Law (Galatians),
Christ is the culmination/goal of the Law (Romans 10:4).
So the question becomes: if Paul says believers are not under the Law as a covenant system for justification,
why does he still call the Law “good”?
The immediate context of 1 Timothy 1
Paul is addressing false teachers in Ephesus who are obsessed with:
“fruitless discussion,”
speculative teaching,
and wanting to be “teachers of the Law” without understanding it.
So his concern is not primarily:
“Should Christians obey God morally?”
but:
“What is the proper function of the Law?”
He says the goal of Christian instruction is:
love,
a pure heart,
a good conscience,
sincere faith.
That already sounds very close to Paul elsewhere:
“The whole Law is fulfilled in one word: love your neighbor” (Galatians 5).
“The Law is good, if one uses it lawfully”
This is probably the controlling statement.
Paul does not reject the Law itself. In fact, in Romans he says:
“The Law is holy, righteous, and good.”
But for Paul, the Law has a particular role:
it exposes sin,
restrains evil,
reveals God’s moral order,
and drives people toward grace and Christ.
That fits verses 9–10:
“law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless…”
The list that follows echoes the Ten Commandments:
murder,
sexual immorality,
kidnapping,
lying,
etc.
So Paul is using the Law primarily as:
a diagnostic and restraining tool for sin,
not
a ladder for attaining righteousness before God.
That is very consistent with Romans and Galatians.
“Not under law” does not mean “no moral reality”
A major Pauline distinction is between:
the Law as covenantal system for justification, and
the moral will of God fulfilled through the Spirit.
In Galatians and Romans, Paul argues strongly against:
circumcision as covenant obligation,
Torah observance as the basis of standing before God,
ethnic/legal boundary markers as identity.
But he does not teach moral chaos.
Instead:
the Spirit produces love,
love fulfills the Law,
believers become inwardly transformed rather than externally regulated.
So in Paul’s framework:
the Law cannot save,
but the Law still witnesses to what sin is.
That is why 1 Timothy can simultaneously say:
the gospel is central,
grace is central,
and yet the Law properly identifies conduct “contrary to sound teaching.”
The difficult phrase in verse 10
Many readers focus on the phrase translated “homosexuals.” The underlying Greek terms and their interpretation
are heavily debated among scholars and traditions. Different Christian traditions read this text differently:
traditional/conservative readings see Paul condemning same-sex sexual acts,
progressive readings argue the text addresses exploitative, abusive, or idolatrous sexual behavior rather
than all same-sex relationships.
That debate is larger than this passage alone and usually involves:
Romans 1,
1 Corinthians 6,
ancient Greco-Roman sexual practices,
and questions of translation.
But whichever position one takes, in the flow of 1 Timothy Paul’s point is that the Law identifies behaviors
he considers contrary to “sound teaching.”
The broader theological synthesis
A coherent Pauline reading is something like:
The Law is good.
The Law reveals sin.
The Law restrains evil.
The Law cannot justify or give life.
Christ and grace are the basis of salvation.
The Christian life is led by the Spirit and fulfilled in love.
Therefore Christians are not “under the Law” as a condemning covenant system, yet God’s moral reality
is not abolished.
That is why Paul can sound:
anti-Law in Galatians when combating legalism,
and simultaneously
pro-Law in 1 Timothy when combating moral disorder and false teaching.
In 1 Corinthians 9:9-10 and 1 Timothy 5:18, the apostle Paul uses the law shown below.
Deuteronomy 25:4
You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain.
To argue that those who labour for the gospel, evangelists, ministers, inquisitors, are entitled to financial
and material support from the church they serve.
Paul uses this phrase to illustrate that the worker deserves to partake in the fruits of their labor, and it
directly influences the understanding that Moses wrote about Jesus.
John 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
By showing that even the ancient law was designed with a higher spiritual application in mind.
Paul argues "Is it for oxen that God is concerned?"
The idea that Moses wrote about Jesus must be enforced in any reading of the law.
The law is not a set of written rules but a complex prophetic discourse on Christ and
the church.
In 1 Timothy 5:18, Paul quotes Jesus "The worker is worthy of his wages" (Luke 10:7).
Christians are the "threshers" that do the work of spreading the gospel.
Paul is saying that Moses was writing with an eye toward the future ministry of the gospel.
Paul demonstrates that the Old Testament is not obsolete but contains principles that, when
interpreted through the lens of Christ, are meant for the encouragement and guidance of the Church.
In essence, Paul "unmuzzles" the law from its literal reading to show that it was always
intended to point toward, that spiritual understanding.
The law points directly at Jesus Christ and that was the purpose of the law.
The law is useless otherwise.
The law is summed up in how you treat others according to Jesus (love).
The law never tells you to love your enemies.
The law will not warn you about seeking wealth.
The law refuses to point out self preoccupation, selfishness is death.
The law never states do not drink alcohol.
The law is useless when it comes to a righteous life.
The only thing the law can do is point out a limited set of sins.
you did not answer the question
The Tribulation is coming as well as the 7 Trumpets plagues of the Seventh Seal, Jesus Christ is going to put to death billions.
Is Jesus Christ just doing this because He can or is He following law?
Transgressing any of the 10 Commands is punishable by death and the 10 are in the Torah, if the Torah in which are the 10 commands including number 4 the Sabbath, has been abolished, what give Christ the legal right to put billions to death?
Sin is punishable by death, the Torah is what codifies what is a sin, if it is gone then by what legal means is Christ putting to death billions
"Keep the commandments of Jesus". When did He command the church to meet on the Sabbath? Don't tell me the law of Moses. And when did Paul command gentiles to meet on the sabbath? The opposite is true. Colossians
Sure, obey the Law that brought death. Romans 7:10. Which means that any time you break the law, you die. Again. You have no idea what you re saying.
The definition of a righteous life is...
Jesus .... or " an existence anchored in moral integrity, ethical behavior, and alignment with a higher set of principles. It is defined by justice, compassion, honesty, and actively contributing to the well-being of others, ".
The law you say is useless when it comes to a righteous life. Except it points out a limited set of sins.
It can not change our heart and cause us to live a righteous life.. only God can do that.
But the laws are given to clearly define what sin is. The 10 commandments are clearly a higher set of principles to point out sin. By faith in Jesus and love for Him we can recieve strength to obey the Law.
A righteous life is a beautiful journey of walking with God, empowered by the very life and obedience of Jesus Christ dwelling within us.
To live righteously is to choose the path of life and blessing, acknowledging that we have no power of our own to be holy, but rather receiving His strength moment by moment.
By beholding Jesus—His humility, patience, and love—we become changed into His likeness and enabled to live the life He lived, John 15:10.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
1Pe 1:15-16
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
How can we know what is righteous and Holy and Good without a standard.
Christ was our example, and the law is what defines sin.
It does not save us and we can not save ourselves by keeping it .... Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
This verse is not saying the law is made void. It is not saying the law is obsolete and useless. It is saying that we can not save ourselves by keeping the Law.
If obeying the law was the means of salvation then Jesus would not have needed to give His blood. If i could obey the law to gain righteousness and pay for my salvation then i would not need a saviour. By dieing for us Jesus paid the price of transgressing the law. The law reveals sin and Jesus saves us from the sin. But if the law is obsolete and removed then Jesus would not have needed to die for us, (no law =no sin). It is by grace that the penalty of transgressing the law is paid.
The law is not useless
But the law can not save us.
THERE WAS NO TORAH WHEN GOD KILLED ALL BUT 8 PEOPLE BY THE FLOOD. How hard is that to understand? God warned Cain not to kill his brother because that was sin. Cain disobeyed anyway. Cain did not have the law. The Law came around 2,600 years after Cain.
Paul said it not me...
Rom 7:10-14
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Sin = death
The law reveals sin.
If you want to pretend that your not sinning, pretend or think your not transgressing the law, then remove the law. By making the law obsolete you are freeing yourself from the guilt of transgressing the law.
But I will say the same as Paul...
Rom 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
wow, are you saying God is a murderer?
then for what reason did God kill men, women and little babies, possibly millions, by the flood?
they had bad breath? no reason?? what?
God will only put to death only those that transgress HIS Divine HOLY Law
Sin is the transgression of the Torah, period.
transgressions of any of the 10 Commands allows God to legally carry out the penalty of death
What gives God the legal right to put any to death?
If you say God does not need a legal right,
then even if I am bothering no one, minding my own business God can just put me to death for no reason?? I will not follow that god.
So the time of the end is upon us and 7 or 8 billion are going to die SOON, some horribly.
if the Torah was abolished, these billions are going to suffer and die for no reason?
if you say they are evil -- define evil.
Who is it that determine what is evil, what is sin??
illogical, lawless confusion
I didn't catch this at first.
"God warned Cain not to kill his brother because that was sin."
Please define what is sin??
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law/Torah: for sin is the transgression of the law.
the only Law in the entire Word of God is Torah.
Thus: Cain transgressed the Torah. there is a commandment against murder, sin.
And are you aware Abraham obeyed the Torah, including the commandments and the Statutes
That can be found in Genesis 26. the word used as law is #8451 Torah.
I have come to learn just how hated the Torah is. shocking