So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?

[HatedForNoReason]

I know for a fact, sodom and gomorrah people in the bible are nonelects.

Romans 1:24-32
​

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [a]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [b]men, leaving the natural use of the [c]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [d]sexual immorality, wickedness, [e]covetousness, [f]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [g]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [h]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How do you follow Jesus command in Matthew 7:6 without discerning their fruits, if they are nonelect or God's elect?

Matthew 7:6
​

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Matthew 13:19-23
​

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”​

 

[Brasspen]

"Trained behavior"

 

[Gideon300]

I know for a fact, sodom and gomorrah people in the bible are nonelects.​

​

Romans 1:24-32​

​

”

I had a bit to do with the homosexual community when I lived in Sydney. Some of the reasons they gave included

Abuse by paedophiles. Not every youth objected.
Mothers who raised their boys to be girls. They are the effeminate types.
Men and women who are so sexually corrupt that they are bisexual. Many of the sailors on my ship were that way inclined.

One thing that surprised me then is how many had a Christian upbringing. It makes more sense to me now.

Homosexuality is a demon that needs to be cast out. Believers can be delivered. First, they need to acknowledge that it is sin. They need accept God's judgement and repent. It's a stronghold and has to be fought if the person is to be set free.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

THIS VIDEO

I know for a fact, sodom and gomorrah people in the bible are nonelects.​

​

Romans 1:24-32​

​

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [a]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [b]men, leaving the natural use of the [c]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [d]sexual immorality, wickedness, [e]covetousness, [f]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [g]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [h]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How do you follow Jesus command in Matthew 7:6 without discerning their fruits, if they are nonelect or God's elect?

Matthew 7:6​

​

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Matthew 13:19-23​

​

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”​

The terms usually used in the Bible are "sodomites" and "reprobate".
Since this is a Pastor and small group leader sub forum, I will address this topic in that context.
It's appropriate to say that ministers can be turned over to a reprobate mind by rejection of the gospel over time.

I learned of this book from THIS VIDEO< on YouTube before they removed it.
It was written by a wicked guy who tried to justify placement of sodomites in children's ministries.

 

[Ceph]

I learned of this book from THIS VIDEO< on YouTube before they removed it.
It was written by a wicked guy who tried to justify placement of sodomites in children's ministries.

The author of that book clearly hasn't studied the science.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The author of that book clearly hasn't studied the science.

That's a good comparison.
If there's a gross meter, I would rank maggots at 20% and 2 dudes kissing at 90-100%.
The exception would be the "greet one another with an holy kiss" that is still common among families in parts of Europe and the middle east last I heard. That's totally different peck on the back of the cheek by the ear.
I Thessalonians 5:26 KJV
Americans usually just give a hug and pat on the back.

 

[JohnDB]

The OP posted the scriptures...

Why does he not understand them?

Your infamous "John 3:16" passage...

Read the WHOLE passage in chapter 3 of John. Jesus states this very thing quite clearly...

You either love and seek the truth or you don't.
Pick your poison.
I'm choosing light and truth.

 

[Aussie52]

I had a bit to do with the homosexual community when I lived in Sydney. Some of the reasons they gave included

Abuse by paedophiles. Not every youth objected.
Mothers who raised their boys to be girls. They are the effeminate types.
Men and women who are so sexually corrupt that they are bisexual. Many of the sailors on my ship were that way inclined.

One thing that surprised me then is how many had a Christian upbringing. It makes more sense to me now.

Homosexuality is a demon that needs to be cast out. Believers can be delivered. First, they need to acknowledge that it is sin. They need accept God's judgement and repent. It's a stronghold and has to be fought if the person is to be set free.

While there may be demonic involvement in some homosexual practice, I believe it would be hard to prove biblically or otherwise, that this is always the case.
Blessings.

 

[jacko]

God's grace extends to all, for all have fallen short.

 

[Gideon300]

While there may be demonic involvement in some homosexual practice, I believe it would be hard to prove biblically or otherwise, that this is always the case.
Blessings.

That's why we need the gift of discerning of spirits. The lack of knowledge concerning the activity of evil spirits has led to many believers suffering bondages unnecessarily. I know that the denomination you belonged to rejected the idea that Christians could be afflicted with demons. And that partly explains why demonic manifestations such as the Toronto Blessing were so readily accepted. Ignorance is not bliss. It is dangerous.

Derek Prince ministered deliverance. I have personal experience of that.

 

[Burn1986]

I know for a fact, sodom and gomorrah people in the bible are nonelects.​

​

Romans 1:24-32​

​

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [a]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [b]men, leaving the natural use of the [c]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [d]sexual immorality, wickedness, [e]covetousness, [f]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [g]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [h]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How do you follow Jesus command in Matthew 7:6 without discerning their fruits, if they are nonelect or God's elect?

Matthew 7:6​

​

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Matthew 13:19-23​

​

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”​

So, you don’t have any commentary; just bible quoting? I’ll bet you ask God, “Should I drink Lite beer or regular?” You might need to fast and pray for such a deep issue lol

 

[JohnDB]

Look above at Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Look at how this parallels with what Jesus tells Nicodemus....


John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


You either love and live the truth or you want lies and corruption.

Your primary identity is no longer in God but in a sexual practice....and they (LGBTQ) seem to have to tell everyone about their pronouns and/or sexual preferences.....as if it's something worthy to be celebrated. All of this leaving no room to make the most out of every opportunity to tell how great and wonderful God is. Because in truth....the essence of what they are about is how everything is about them....it's not about God...just themselves.

 

[Ceph]

So, you don’t have any commentary; just bible quoting? I’ll bet you ask God, “Should I drink Lite beer or regular?” You might need to fast and pray for such a deep issue lol

Proverbs 21:
2Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but Yahweh weighs the hearts.
3To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to Yahweh than sacrifice.
4A high look and a proud heart, the lamp of the wicked, is sin.


4:
10Listen, my son, and receive my sayings. The years of your life will be many.
11I have taught you in the way of wisdom. I have led you in straight paths.
12When you go, your steps will not be hampered. When you run, you will not stumble.
13Take firm hold of instruction. Don’t let her go. Keep her, for she is your life.
14Don’t enter into the path of the wicked. Don’t walk in the way of evil men.
15Avoid it, and don’t pass by it. Turn from it, and pass on.
16For they don’t sleep unless they do evil. Their sleep is taken away, unless they make someone fall.
17For they eat the bread of wickedness and drink the wine of violence.
18But the path of the righteous is like the dawning light that shines more and more until the perfect day.
19The way of the wicked is like darkness. They don’t know what they stumble over.
20My son, attend to my words. Turn your ear to my sayings.
21Let them not depart from your eyes. Keep them in the center of your heart.
22For they are life to those who find them, and health to their whole body.
23Keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it is the wellspring of life.
24Put away from yourself a perverse mouth. Put corrupt lips far from you.

 

[Aussie52]

I believe that the homosexual issue is definitely one of 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. The cause of the Gospel has been badly hurt by the 'God hates fags' mentality of so many conservative evangelical Christians.
God has given us a great opportunity to demonstrate the love of God to the gay community. If we are to see gays & lesbians come to Christ, it will not happen if we stand aloof, like the Pharasees, being judgmental of them.
This issue cuts close to the bone for me as I have a lesbian daughter who I love to bits. It has been hard over the years witnessing to her when she has been the object of 'abuse' by unloving Christians
So, please, let us always 'speak the truth in love' and in our actions, show Christ's love.

 

[JohnDB]

I believe that the homosexual issue is definitely one of 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. The cause of the Gospel has been badly hurt by the 'God hates fags' mentality of so many conservative evangelical Christians.
God has given us a great opportunity to demonstrate the love of God to the gay community. If we are to see gays & lesbians come to Christ, it will not happen if we stand aloof, like the Pharasees, being judgmental of them.
This issue cuts close to the bone for me as I have a lesbian daughter who I love to bits. It has been hard over the years witnessing to her when she has been the object of 'abuse' by unloving Christians
So, please, let us always 'speak the truth in love' and in our actions, show Christ's love.

Oh I definitely understand the pain and grief this subject is causing you.

Finding out the root cause of WHY she chose to live a lie is NEVER easy. She will hide it from everyone....she won't tell because for her it's too personal to ever share....she might not even really understand it herself. But it's definitely willful and deliberate on her part despite the loud noise she might make otherwise. It's not genetics or predisposition or anything but a choice.

But why she chose it....that's what she really will not tell.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Whether it's homosexuality or any other sin, God gave them up because they gave Him up first. They were so insistent that they go their own way that God basically said "Okay, have at it". God gave them what they wanted.

However, that doesn't mean that someone involved in such sins cannot repent and come back to God. (Ezekiel 18, Luke 15)

 

[JohnDB]

Whether it's homosexuality or any other sin, God gave them up because they gave Him up first. They were so insistent that they go their own way that God basically said "Okay, have at it". God gave them what they wanted.

However, that doesn't mean that someone involved in such sins cannot repent and come back to God. (Ezekiel 18, Luke 15)

I really don't want to ever give people false hope....

But how easily is a unique identity you have fought, worked and been tortured over for given up for a seemingly mundane identity that costs nothing?

Especially when there is a TON of short term pleasures given for the status quo.

The long term pleasure from becoming "mundane" seem esoteric in nature....

 

[Gideon300]

Whether it's homosexuality or any other sin, God gave them up because they gave Him up first. They were so insistent that they go their own way that God basically said "Okay, have at it". God gave them what they wanted.

However, that doesn't mean that someone involved in such sins cannot repent and come back to God. (Ezekiel 18, Luke 15)

Sin is sin. The problem with homosexuals is getting them to agree that it is sin.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Sin is sin. The problem with homosexuals is getting them to agree that it is sin.

Yep, I agree with that.

 

[Burn1986]

I know for a fact, sodom and gomorrah people in the bible are nonelects.​

​

Romans 1:24-32​

​

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [a]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [b]men, leaving the natural use of the [c]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [d]sexual immorality, wickedness, [e]covetousness, [f]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [g]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [h]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How do you follow Jesus command in Matthew 7:6 without discerning their fruits, if they are nonelect or God's elect?

Matthew 7:6​

​

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Matthew 13:19-23​

​

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”​

So stupid