Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

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I am guessing you are trying to.make that verse in Rev 3 go away?
Rev 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the
word of my patience, I also
will keep thee from the hour of
temptation, which shall come
upon all the world, to try them
that dwell upon the earth."

Jesus also said in
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So really, you need both of those to go away.
They are not taught by your teachers, because we had to point it out to them.

Is there a weird reframing of Luke 21 that you have come up with ?

Maybe both verses are plain and mean what they say?

Very good.
What is the hour of temptation?
It is the mark of the beast.
Thus, the individuals spoken to in Rev. 3:10 will be spared from the trial of the mark of the beast, in the tribulation.
Meaning, they will go into the tribulation but not into the time of the mark of the beast.
At that time, they will be taken on an exodus (Rev. 12:6), and not taken off the earth in a rapture.
Again, the pre-tribulation false doctrine is destroyed.

And Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, (watch)
and pray always, (and pray)
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things (that you may be accounted to God worthy to escape these things)
that shall come to pass, (that shall come to pass)
and (and)
to stand before the Son of man.

Many will be accounted worthy to escape the things referenced in this chapter and verse.
But like Christ asking to be spared the bitter cup, it was not and will not be so.
Therefore, the greater desire is to be worthy to stand before Jesus Christ, having salvation (Rev. 12:11).

Stay with me, and you will learn how to read scripture.
 
I just did a quick skim
There are over 50 references of the word "heaven" in Rev .
I skimmed the context of each.
EVERY ONE OF THEM referenced heaven.
(The place where the throne is)
A Few of them say "heaven and earth"

But you say "earth" can be inserted instead if "heaven"?

Not in my bible.
Not in any bible.

Here is an example.
And by the way, I love our dialogue. Thank you.

14:7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The four groups of people listed in the above verse are:
1) the saints to be harvested in Rev. 14:14-16
2) the followers of the beast of the earth from Rev. 13:11
3) the followers of the beast of the sea from Rev. 13:1
4) the followers of the false prophet Wormwood in Rev. 8:10-11

Thus, the metaphor "heaven" is being used to mean the saints of God in this verse.

And then when we get to the judgment in Chapter Sixteen the group formerly called heaven are no longer listed. Becasue, the were harvested (Rev. 14:14-16), prior to the winepress (Rev. 14:17-20)

However, the remaining three groups are stated being subject to judgment:
2) the followers of the earth (Rev. 13:11) in Rev. 16:2
3) the followers of the sea (Rev. 13:1) in Rev. 16:3
4) the followers of the false prophet Wormwood (Rev. 8:10-11) in Rev. 16:4-7

This is how the metaphor "heaven" is used in the Book of Revelation.
 
May God bless us all with wisdom and understanding on this topic, so as to follow His ways as commanded and follow them correctly as He has written in Jesus' name, amen. May the truth be unveiled as God wishes it to be....
 
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Here is an example.
And by the way, I love our dialogue. Thank you.

14:7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The four groups of people listed in the above verse are:
1) the saints to be harvested in Rev. 14:14-16
2) the followers of the beast of the earth from Rev. 13:11
3) the followers of the beast of the sea from Rev. 13:1
4) the followers of the false prophet Wormwood in Rev. 8:10-11

Thus, the metaphor "heaven" is being used to mean the saints of God in this verse.

And then when we get to the judgment in Chapter Sixteen the group formerly called heaven are no longer listed. Becasue, the were harvested (Rev. 14:14-16), prior to the winepress (Rev. 14:17-20)

However, the remaining three groups are stated being subject to judgment:
2) the followers of the earth (Rev. 13:11) in Rev. 16:2
3) the followers of the sea (Rev. 13:1) in Rev. 16:3
4) the followers of the false prophet Wormwood (Rev. 8:10-11) in Rev. 16:4-7

This is how the metaphor "heaven" is used in the Book of Revelation.
No.
It even says "made heaven and earth"
Not "made heaven which is earth"
 
Very good.
What is the hour of temptation?
It is the mark of the beast.
Thus, the individuals spoken to in Rev. 3:10 will be spared from the trial of the mark of the beast, in the tribulation.
Meaning, they will go into the tribulation but not into the time of the mark of the beast.
At that time, they will be taken on an exodus (Rev. 12:6), and not taken off the earth in a rapture.
Again, the pre-tribulation false doctrine is destroyed.

And Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, (watch)
and pray always, (and pray)
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things (that you may be accounted to God worthy to escape these things)
that shall come to pass, (that shall come to pass)
and (and)
to stand before the Son of man.

Many will be accounted worthy to escape the things referenced in this chapter and verse.
But like Christ asking to be spared the bitter cup, it was not and will not be so.
Therefore, the greater desire is to be worthy to stand before Jesus Christ, having salvation (Rev. 12:11).

Stay with me, and you will learn how to read scripture.
..or just stop rejecting what is there.

What a coincidence those 2 escape verses line up with the pretrib rapture.

I read scripture without postrib rapture doctrine workbook.

The no spin bible.
Stick around and learn end times are not centered where you are centered.
You center, as all postribbers, on one thing..."tribulation".

End times study is best viewed from heavens perspective ....which is "bride and bridegroom".

That dynamic is absolutely missing from postrib doctrine.

The actual basis for the rapture, is missing.
The purpose for the trib is missing in postribber workbook.
The purpose in Rev 14, is missing.

You guys are way way off.

Appalling actually.
 
So far we have Rev 14 reframed by postrib rapture doctrine.
Every component changed in that chapter.
Same with Rev 19...no clue as to the setting...or they purposefully change it.
Acts one
" like manner" is reframed into "not like manner"
The virgin parable in mat 25 changed to steer the reader away from what it CLEARLY says.
The 2 escape verses changed in hopes to divert from what they say.
"The gathering before the flood" in mat 24, is deliberately muddied up as if there is no pretrib gathering in Noah.

The gathering in Luke 17 where Jesus uses Lot as a picture of a pretrib rapture is either omitted or muddied up.

What a hard job being a postribber, trying to deliberately cast Down God's word.

They do all that, then attribute any Bible hound, that searches God's word, to an agent of lucifer.

It was lucifer, that presented Jesus with bent up scripture, to bring his evil into play.

Let's see...who is doing that same thing here???????
 
May God bless us all with wisdom and understanding on this topic, so as to follow His ways as commanded and follow them correctly as He has written in Jesus' name, amen. May the truth be unveiled as God wishes it to be....

Thank you, Standard,
God is revealing that truth, through me, to you.
The time of the tribulation is at hand. Draw close to the Savior and his appointed Davidic King, the great Apostle John. For if you are one of his, then you are protected under the Davidic Covenant whereby the Davidic king can sacrifice for the protection of his people. Such protection is that you will live through the tribulation into the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ.
This I testify to you, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
 
Yeah, they are posting some warped scripture imo.

It is not they, but I myself.
And just because you have not heard this before does not negate its truth. You have been taught the doctrine of the various Christian churches. And now that we are going into the tribulation, I am teaching you the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Learn to read the metaphors for your safety and security in the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Come into the light of Jesus Christ.
 
No.
It even says "made heaven and earth"
Not "made heaven which is earth"

In some verses, heaven is used as a metaphor to mean the earth. Not in all verses, however. So "heaven" is one of the words that is sometimes metaphor, and sometimes literal, depending upon the context of the verse.
 
..or just stop rejecting what is there.

What a coincidence those 2 escape verses line up with the pretrib rapture.

I read scripture without postrib rapture doctrine workbook.

The no spin bible.
Stick around and learn end times are not centered where you are centered.
You center, as all postribbers, on one thing..."tribulation".

End times study is best viewed from heavens perspective ....which is "bride and bridegroom".

That dynamic is absolutely missing from postrib doctrine.

The actual basis for the rapture, is missing.
The purpose for the trib is missing in postribber workbook.
The purpose in Rev 14, is missing.

You guys are way way off.

Appalling actually.

P1,
The basis for the rapture is to remove saints from the earth so that they will not be destroyed during the wrath of God.
The purpose of the tribulation is to transfer control of the earth from Lucifer to Jesus.
And the purpose of Rev. 14 is to show the actions of the 144,000 who stand with Jesus Christ.
 
So far we have Rev 14 reframed by postrib rapture doctrine.
Every component changed in that chapter.
Same with Rev 19...no clue as to the setting...or they purposefully change it.
Acts one
" like manner" is reframed into "not like manner"
The virgin parable in mat 25 changed to steer the reader away from what it CLEARLY says.
The 2 escape verses changed in hopes to divert from what they say.
"The gathering before the flood" in mat 24, is deliberately muddied up as if there is no pretrib gathering in Noah.

The gathering in Luke 17 where Jesus uses Lot as a picture of a pretrib rapture is either omitted or muddied up.

What a hard job being a postribber, trying to deliberately cast Down God's word.

They do all that, then attribute any Bible hound, that searches God's word, to an agent of lucifer.

It was lucifer, that presented Jesus with bent up scripture, to bring his evil into play.

Let's see...who is doing that same thing here???????

P1, the things you are claiming are inaccurate.
Because you hold to a pre-trib false doctrine.
Thus, anything you come up with to support the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture has putrefying holes (Isa. 1:6) that can be easily exposed. Because it supports false doctrine.

And the sad thing is that when saints have that false doctrine as their only option, and then find themselves in the tribulation proper, they will feel betrayed. And many of the weaker saints will loose their eternal lives when they cave to Lucifer for the mark of the beast. So I am fighting for their souls and debunking your immature and selfish pre-tribulation false doctrine.

And I must say that many of my friends hold to this pre-tribulation false doctrine. And I do not argue with them but know what is coming to test their testimonies. But for you I am working to show the greater light. So that anyone reading this will know the truth.
 
P1, the things you are claiming are inaccurate.
Because you hold to a pre-trib false doctrine.
Thus, anything you come up with to support the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture has putrefying holes (Isa. 1:6) that can be easily exposed. Because it supports false doctrine.

And the sad thing is that when saints have that false doctrine as their only option, and then find themselves in the tribulation proper, they will feel betrayed. And many of the weaker saints will loose their eternal lives when they cave to Lucifer for the mark of the beast. So I am fighting for their souls and debunking your immature and selfish pre-tribulation false doctrine.

And I must say that many of my friends hold to this pre-tribulation false doctrine. And I do not argue with them but know what is coming to test their testimonies. But for you I am working to show the greater light. So that anyone reading this will know the truth.
I could insert one word into that post and it would then be accurate.
Your model simply does not fit.
Generalizing how you assume, out of thin air, someone is wrong, proves nothing.
You can not reconcile passages so you divert into generalities.
The truth is in the bible. Not your theory that you failed to defend.
 
P1,
The basis for the rapture is to remove saints from the earth so that they will not be destroyed during the wrath of God.
The purpose of the tribulation is to transfer control of the earth from Lucifer to Jesus.
And the purpose of Rev. 14 is to show the actions of the 144,000 who stand with Jesus Christ.
No.
The PURPOSE of the rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

Yet another bible misundstanding that postrib teachers are oblivious to.

The trib is not the setting for the church raptured.
The CORRECT setting, FROM THE BIBLE, for the rapture, is pretrib setting.
 
In some verses, heaven is used as a metaphor to mean the earth. Not in all verses, however. So "heaven" is one of the words that is sometimes metaphor, and sometimes literal, depending upon the context of the verse.
I found no such dynamic.
None
 
P1,
The basis for the rapture is to remove saints from the earth so that they will not be destroyed during the wrath of God.
The purpose of the tribulation is to transfer control of the earth from Lucifer to Jesus.
And the purpose of Rev. 14 is to show the actions of the 144,000 who stand with Jesus Christ.
Rev 14 has 3 gatherings.

What does your doctrine do with that ?

How does firstfruits apply to the 144,000?
Why is Jesus positioned differently in vs 14, than in the other comings?
 
Thank you, Standard,
God is revealing that truth, through me, to you.
The time of the tribulation is at hand. Draw close to the Savior and his appointed Davidic King, the great Apostle John. For if you are one of his, then you are protected under the Davidic Covenant whereby the Davidic king can sacrifice for the protection of his people. Such protection is that you will live through the tribulation into the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ.
This I testify to you, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Draw close to John?
Huh?

You think you will go through the trib protected?
The bible says the opposite.
Complete opposit.
Rev 13
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

so Every Christian must refuse the mark and die.
Or....if you want protection, take the mark and live.
So you got it backwards.

....it gets even worse for your theory doctrine;
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

See that? GODS WORD authenticates itself. So that makes 2 passages against what you falsely believe.

Oh..wait ..hold on...God's word is not done with debunking the postrib rapture theory.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

ALL ON THE PLANET WORSHIP THE AC, or die.

It keeps getting worse for your doctrine, because there is NO BUYING OR SELLING FOR ANY BELIEVERS.

You see yourself, in your imagination, running frantically from the AC, hiding in caves.

Surely it can't get any worse for tge debunked postrib theory?

Well it does.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Billions of Christians in heaven during the gt.

"But, but, but ....don't we get protected???"
No. It is the great Christian slaughter of all those left behind.
Right there in front of your eyes.

Ok ...not convinced? The bible is not done debunking you.
Rev 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14;And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The great martyrs In heaven, during the trib.

There is absolutely ZERO persons that are believers, "going through the trib"

It gets worse.
Rev 20 underscores the martyrs that are the foolish virgins left behind after the pretrib rapture....AND HOW THEY DIE, AND WHEN THEY DIE.

The bible rules, debunks your tired theory, and AUTHENTICATES WHAT IT SAYS.

You were saying?

Your entire deal busted in just one of many components of end times.
 
Why do people cling to what the bible debunks?
Part of it is a preconceived starting place.
" I hate the IDEA of a pretrib rapture"
They start there.
Then someone shows them misplaced verses.
They transpose," Jesus comes after the trib and gathers the saints", onto," Jesus sends angel and gathers in heaven".

Then they concoct an entire doctrine off of that perversion of scripture.

I tell you we are truly in the last days where the Bible is being cast down, and trampled, over a tired and stupid debunked doctrine.
A baby with a bible, can debunk any hope of a postrib rapture.

It is appalling.