The book of Job

[reneweddaybyday]

Why didn't he allow Satan full access to Job from the start?

satan's first claim wherein he (satan) set the terms:

Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

and God told satan:

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

satan himself set the boundary, and God restricted satan from touching Job.

Then when satan failed, he claimed Job would not stand in faith if he were to suffer personally.

When satan told God "Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life" (Job 2:4), he was basically saying Job could suffer the loss of his children, his herds, and his servants so long as he was spared ... which is nothing but a bunch of hooey from the father of lies.

Again, God placed restrictions on satan "he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

I believe Job was a believer in God ... he was not perfect, just as you and I are not perfect. I actually believe all his friends were believers as well. they all uttered some pretty profound truths in the various discussions between them.

The problem was the friends all believed Job had sinned and he was suffering judgment at the hand of God, that Job needed to repent and confess his sin in order to have his relationship with God restored. Job knew he had not sinned ... or if he had sinned, he asked God to reveal that to him so he could repent and have his relationship with God restored

All the while ... they were all ignorant of satan's involvement in the fiasco. We are afforded information concerning what went on that they all were completely unaware of.

.

 

[Mem]

When satan told God "Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life" (Job 2:4), he was basically saying Job could suffer the loss of his children, his herds, and his servants so long as he was spared ... which is nothing but a bunch of hooey from the father of lies.

Job seemed to me to tolerate that loss fairly well saying, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away..."

The problem was the friends all believed Job had sinned and he was suffering judgment at the hand of God, that Job needed to repent and confess his sin in order to have his relationship with God restored. Job knew he had not sinned ... or if he had sinned, he asked God to reveal that to him so he could repent and have his relationship with God restored

I view the problem as the friends' attempt to remove the sliver out of Job's eye, telling Job that he needed to repent of his sins, as if they had not enjoyed God's grace in spite of their own. They could just as well have found themselves in Job's shoes, "If it were not for the grace of God, there I go."
Without going back over the book, and only going by vague recall, I'm fairly confident that Elihu, and only Elihu, maintained humility throughout the discourse.

Again, God placed restrictions on satan "he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

God made reservations for Himself, for His Grace, in Job's situation. He determined that He would speak to Job and give him opportunity to remember his humility. This is what God rewarded, rather than Job's triumph in maintaining his uprightness, at the conclusion of the ordeal. After all, this wasn't a book with any intention of glorifying Job at all, however it may seem to be in considering the final outcome.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Job seemed to me to tolerate that loss fairly well saying, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away..."

read the verse just before Job said that ...

Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped

Job was in mourning ... he tore his clothes, shaved his head, and fell on the ground. This was a public display of grief and mourning.

I view the problem as the friends' attempt to remove the sliver out of Job's eye, telling Job that he needed to repent of his sins, as if they had not enjoyed God's grace in spite of their own. They could just as well have found themselves in Job's shoes, "If it were not for the grace of God, there I go."
Without going back over the book, and only going by vague recall, I'm fairly confident that Elihu, and only Elihu, maintained humility throughout the discourse.

We have the advantage of knowing satan was behind all the shenanigans ... a fact Job and his friends were not aware of ... and had they known, they might have had words of comfort and edification for Job rather than the finger pointing that went on.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God made reservations for Himself, for His Grace, in Job's situation. He determined that He would speak to Job and give him opportunity to remember his humility. This is what God rewarded, rather than Job's triumph in maintaining his uprightness, at the conclusion of the ordeal. After all, this wasn't a book with any intention of glorifying Job at all, however it may seem to be in considering the final outcome.

I believe the final outcome glorifies God ... His faithfulness and how He alone is able to work all things together for our good ... in spite of what we see in our current circumstances.

.

 

[Mem]

Job was in mourning ... he tore his clothes, shaved his head, and fell on the ground. This was a public display of grief and mourning.

The grief for his children did nothing to prevent him from blessing God, though it had a different effect on His wife.

We have the advantage of knowing satan was behind all the shenanigans ... a fact Job and his friends were not aware of ... and had they known, they might have had words of comfort and edification for Job rather than the finger pointing that went on.

Did Job come to the revelation that it was Satan? Is that why he said, "My ears had heard of You, but now my eyes have seen You," and therefore retracted his words and repented in dust and ashes? Repenting in dust and ashes is done as a display of humility. If Job was right all along, what did he have to repent of? Why did he despise himself after God effectively called him a fool?

The word pride, ge'ah, only occurs once and that in Prov 8:13 attached to arrogant, ga'own, which appears in Job 35:12 of evil men that God does not answer when they cry out in great oppression, in Job 38:11 and Job 40:10 as God challenges Job, and Job 37:4 as Elihu proclaims God majesty, ga'own.

The first instance is given in the context of Elihu recalling God's Justice, followed with his declaration that God does not listen to empty pleas (Job 35:13) then asks Job how much less when he says that he does not see Him (Job 35:14) and concludes that Job opens his mouth in folly and multiplies words without knowledge (Job 35:16).

If Elihu was wrong in including Job among such 'evil men', why was he not rebuked at all as with the other three?

 

[tttallison]

Answer my question and then I'll be happy to consider your question.

Also since the three friends of Job predate the New testament, you must define what you mean by "saved".

Jhn 3:3-2 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Elihu said Job 33:23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

 

[ZNP]

Jhn 3:3-2 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Elihu said Job 33:23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

You have not answered the question I asked, and it looks like you are trying to equate what Elihu said to what Jesus said about being born again meaning that you are answering your own question without actually defining salvation. This is not an honest way to conduct a conversation.

 

[tttallison]

You have not answered the question I asked, and it looks like you are trying to equate what Elihu said to what Jesus said about being born again meaning that you are answering your own question without actually defining salvation. This is not an honest way to conduct a conversation.

Are you like Job, hearing but not seeing? To be saved is to be born again into the family of God. It is to be able to call God, my Father. Elihu explained it very aptly. Job was heading for the pit and Elihu explained salvation to Job. Job was to accept God's righteousness, and that righteous was Jesus Christ, the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, the ransom for Job's soul.

Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

 

[ZNP]

Are you like Job, hearing but not seeing? To be saved is to be born again into the family of God. It is to be able to call God, my Father. Elihu explained it very aptly. Job was heading for the pit and Elihu explained salvation to Job. Job was to accept God's righteousness, and that righteous was Jesus Christ, the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, the ransom for Job's soul.

Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So your question was whether or not Elihu was born into the family of God, not according to the flesh, not according to the first creation, but according to the second birth, the new creation. Everyone born of Adam is born of God, but that is not what you are referring to, you mean everyone born again, as a result of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. It seems you are saying that Elihu was saved but then quote Jeremiah referring to the days of Jesus Christ and the church saying "in His days Judah shall be saved" as support? Melchisedek was the king of righteousness, and he was a shadow of Jesus Christ, who is the High Priest, abiding forever, according to the priesthood of Melchisedek prophesied to come.

So yes, I can hear you very well and I will take this response of yours to also answer the other question about whether or not you are saved.

"Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him." So I would encourage you to "Hear Him".

 

[tttallison]

So your question was whether or not Elihu was born into the family of God, not according to the flesh, not according to the first creation, but according to the second birth, the new creation. Everyone born of Adam is born of God, but that is not what you are referring to, you mean everyone born again, as a result of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. It seems you are saying that Elihu was saved but then quote Jeremiah referring to the days of Jesus Christ and the church saying "in His days Judah shall be saved" as support? Melchisedek was the king of righteousness, and he was a shadow of Jesus Christ, who is the High Priest, abiding forever, according to the priesthood of Melchisedek prophesied to come.

So yes, I can hear you very well and I will take this response of yours to also answer the other question about whether or not you are saved.

"Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him." So I would encourage you to "Hear Him".

No! No! No! No! No! No! You Don't Hear Me.

I was not talking about whether or not Elihu was born into the family of God. There is only one salvation and it comes through Jesus Christ. That works for both Old and New Testament. I presented Elihu because he presented to Job the way of salvation. I presented Jeremiah because he presented Christ our righteousness. The official wedding garment.

Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem. Job had clothed himself in his own righteousness and he was on his way to the pit, as Elihu had explained to him.

Job had his own righteousness, and it was not a proper wedding garment. Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?

Elihu said, Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Do you realize Elihu said he was in God's place? Yet God had no condemnation for Elihu. Why?

 

[ZNP]

No! No! No! No! No! No! You Don't Hear Me.

I was not talking about whether or not Elihu was born into the family of God. There is only one salvation and it comes through Jesus Christ. That works for both Old and New Testament. I presented Elihu because he presented to Job the way of salvation. I presented Jeremiah because he presented Christ our righteousness. The official wedding garment.

Job 29:14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem. Job had clothed himself in his own righteousness and he was on his way to the pit, as Elihu had explained to him.

Job had his own righteousness, and it was not a proper wedding garment. Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?

Elihu said, Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Do you realize Elihu said he was in God's place? Yet God had no condemnation for Elihu. Why?

I have already answered all of this. The book of Job gives us the priesthood according to the order of Melchisedek. Elihu represents Jesus Christ coming after the three friends who represent three religions that minister condemnation. The reason all this happened to Job is because he must have sinned. Job desires to offer a propitiation for his children in chapter 1, this means he wants to take part in the ministry of reconciliation which is the New Testament ministry. We know that only Jesus Christ is righteous so the fact that Job is righteous in chapter 1 indicates he is a believer in Christ (in typology). As soon as you believe in Jesus Christ He becomes your righteousness, that is the first stage in salvation, but the second stage is to take heed to your calling and to take part in the ministry of reconciliation. His children all die in sin, but then after he has been a burnt offering to the Lord all of his children are there in the second birth.

Maybe if you read what I shared already you wouldn't be asking people stuff in such a convoluted way.

 

[christophernyc]

Do you realize that God did not have one good thing to say to Job after the second test. Everything God said to Job had a negative connotation. There was no well done my good and faithful servant.

You're right. God actually says two good things about Job, not just one.

Job 42:7,8
And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to yourfolly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

Notice the comparison is the words of the 3 friends with the words of Job. These are the words that occur during chapters 4 - 31.

As for what God says to Job, I realize you are insistent on a negative connotation, with which I disagree. God is asking questions of Job, He is not making accusations. Also, reneweddaybyday addressed your points about this very well in Post #526..

Do you notice how all of this plays out. Job was contending, instructing, and reproving God.

Job was struggling to understand what went wrong in his relationship with God.

Also, do you have any response to the substance of that explanation about relationship in my previous post.? Care to comment?

If your friend suddenly stopped talking to you, refused to answer your calls, and offered you no help when you were suffering, how would you respond? Would you think that was normal? Or would you reach out to them, and ask them what's wrong? Wouldn't you consider that, perhaps unknowingly, you had done something to offend them? Wouldn't you ask them if you had? Wouldn't you try to find out? Who wouldn't do that with a friend?

And then God tells Job to bring low those that are full of pride. (It is evident that God is speaking of Job being full of pride.) Job's pride was evident when he reproved God so that he might be righteous. Then God says if you can do the things that I can do, then I (God) will confess that your own right hand can save you.

It is not evident God is speaking of Job. In fact, this description is a perfect fit for the most pompous, arrogant one of the bunch: Elihu.

Job had been exalting himself above God.

Incorrect. Job does not exalt himself above God. Elihu accuses Job of this, but Job professes the opposite. For example, Job 9:1-8.

Job 9:1-8
Then Job answered and said,
2I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
3If he will contend with Him, he cannot answer Him one of a thousand.
4He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against Him, and hath prospered?
5Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in His anger.
6Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

By the way, it sure sounds like God is praising and blessing God here, is he not?

And read all of Job chapter 28, too, where God is glorified by Job for His wisdom, among others things. Are you able to comment on these?

Are you able to answer any of these other questions?

1. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, why is that information not included in chapters 1 and 2?

2. Is it your belief then that God's mission in allowing Job to suffer is because Job is so proud that God must resort to allowing him to be viciously attacked and beaten into submission? If Job was "proud" as you claim, was God not able to confront Job in another way, and lead him to repentance by simply convicting him of sin? Doesn't God's kindness lead to repentance?

3. Have you ever responded to the words of the apostle James and what he writes about Job in his epistle? James commends Job for persevering and enduring through his trial. One of the main themes of James's epistle is the believer being tested in their faith, and then he provides Job as an example. If Job is suffering because of his "pride" why would James commend him, and hold him up as an example? What say you? According to you, is Job persevering in stubborn pride and self-righteousness? That seems to be how you see the story. So why would James commend Job for that?

4. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, as you are accusing him, then why does Job cry out to God, seek for Him, and continue desiring to have his relationship restored with Him? Wouldn't a proud person simply be done with God after suffering so horrendously? These concepts in your interpretation appear to be completely incompatible. Can you explain?

5. If it's your position that Job is in "sin" then where is the sacrifice for his sin? Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. The 3 friends are convicted by God of sin, and God requires a sacrifice to be made for their atonement. So if you are accusing Job of sinning, where is the sacrifice required for his sin?

Do you have any answers to these questions? Can you answer them?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The grief for his children did nothing to prevent him from blessing God, though it had a different effect on His wife.

I cannot imagine the grief a parent goes through in losing a son or a daughter ... much less all of my children in one fell swoop. Job and his wife were blessed in the end with another 7 sons and 3 daughters.

Did Job come to the revelation that it was Satan?

I do not believe any of them knew satan was behind all of Job's turmoil. Job 42:11 says ...

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

They all still thought it was God Who afflicted Job with sore boils all over his body. They all thought Job had sinned and he needed to repent. Even Job asked God to reveal any sin on his part.

Is that why he said, "My ears had heard of You, but now my eyes have seen You," and therefore retracted his words and repented in dust and ashes? Repenting in dust and ashes is done as a display of humility.

I believe Job had a good relationship with God prior to Job 1. I believe Job was a godly man who listened when God spoke to him. When Job was at his very lowest point, enduring the pain and suffering, he called out to God. When God finally revealed Himself to Job in chapters 38-41, He showed Job how glorious and powerful He was. God revealed Himself to Job in a more intimate way. At that point, Job saw God's majesty and glory. Whenever God reveals Himself like that, the response is to fall flat on our face before Him. Job is not the only one we read about in Scripture who fell on his face before the Lord.

If Job was right all along, what did he have to repent of?

Job had uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not (Job 42:3).

Why did he despise himself after God effectively called him a fool?

God is so Holy ... God is so Glorious ... God is so Magnificent ... all else pales in God's Holiness, God's Glory, God's Magnificence.

The word pride, ge'ah, only occurs once and that in Prov 8:13 attached to arrogant, ga'own, which appears in Job 35:12 of evil men that God does not answer when they cry out in great oppression, in Job 38:11 and Job 40:10 as God challenges Job, and Job 37:4 as Elihu proclaims God majesty, ga'own.

The first instance is given in the context of Elihu recalling God's Justice, followed with his declaration that God does not listen to empty pleas (Job 35:13) then asks Job how much less when he says that he does not see Him (Job 35:14) and concludes that Job opens his mouth in folly and multiplies words without knowledge (Job 35:16).

Was Job an evil man? According to Job 1:1, Job 1:8, Job 2:3, Job was a man who reverenced God and eschewed evil.

In Job 35:12, Elihu inferred that Job was filled with pride which is why God had not answered when Job cried out to Him.

Job 38:11 refers to the oceans and the seas ... the boundaries which God placed in creation which the waves of the sea shall not pass.

In Job 40, God sets forth a series of rhetorical questions and says if Job could do things that only God can do, then Job could save himself.

Elihu believed the same as Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar believed ... that Job had sinned and needed to repent ... that once Job repented, his suffering would be over. Even Job asked God to tell him what sin he had committed so he could repent. None of them knew satan was the one who killed Job's children, his servants, his herds, and smote Job with boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.

If Elihu was wrong in including Job among such 'evil men', why was he not rebuked at all as with the other three?

that is a question only God can answer.

.

 

[tttallison]

I have already answered all of this. The book of Job gives us the priesthood according to the order of Melchisedek. Elihu represents Jesus Christ coming after the three friends who represent three religions that minister condemnation. The reason all this happened to Job is because he must have sinned. Job desires to offer a propitiation for his children in chapter 1, this means he wants to take part in the ministry of reconciliation which is the New Testament ministry. We know that only Jesus Christ is righteous so the fact that Job is righteous in chapter 1 indicates he is a believer in Christ (in typology). As soon as you believe in Jesus Christ He becomes your righteousness, that is the first stage in salvation, but the second stage is to take heed to your calling and to take part in the ministry of reconciliation. His children all die in sin, but then after he has been a burnt offering to the Lord all of his children are there in the second birth.

Maybe if you read what I shared already you wouldn't be asking people stuff in such a convoluted way.

Where have you answered anything? We need some intellectual honesty in place of word salad.

 

[tttallison]

You're right. God actually says two good things about Job, not just one.

Job 42:7,8
And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to yourfolly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

Notice the comparison is the words of the 3 friends with the words of Job. These are the words that occur during chapters 4 - 31.

As for what God says to Job, I realize you are insistent on a negative connotation, with which I disagree. God is asking questions of Job, He is not making accusations. Also, reneweddaybyday addressed your points about this very well in Post #526..



Job was struggling to understand what went wrong in his relationship with God.

Also, do you have any response to the substance of that explanation about relationship in my previous post.? Care to comment?

If your friend suddenly stopped talking to you, refused to answer your calls, and offered you no help when you were suffering, how would you respond? Would you think that was normal? Or would you reach out to them, and ask them what's wrong? Wouldn't you consider that, perhaps unknowingly, you had done something to offend them? Wouldn't you ask them if you had? Wouldn't you try to find out? Who wouldn't do that with a friend?



It is not evident God is speaking of Job. In fact, this description is a perfect fit for the most pompous, arrogant one of the bunch: Elihu.



Incorrect. Job does not exalt himself above God. Elihu accuses Job of this, but Job professes the opposite. For example, Job 9:1-8.

Job 9:1-8
Then Job answered and said,
2I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
3If he will contend with Him, he cannot answer Him one of a thousand.
4He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against Him, and hath prospered?
5Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in His anger.
6Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

By the way, it sure sounds like God is praising and blessing God here, is he not?

And read all of Job chapter 28, too, where God is glorified by Job for His wisdom, among others things. Are you able to comment on these?

Are you able to answer any of these other questions?

1. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, why is that information not included in chapters 1 and 2?

2. Is it your belief then that God's mission in allowing Job to suffer is because Job is so proud that God must resort to allowing him to be viciously attacked and beaten into submission? If Job was "proud" as you claim, was God not able to confront Job in another way, and lead him to repentance by simply convicting him of sin? Doesn't God's kindness lead to repentance?

3. Have you ever responded to the words of the apostle James and what he writes about Job in his epistle? James commends Job for persevering and enduring through his trial. One of the main themes of James's epistle is the believer being tested in their faith, and then he provides Job as an example. If Job is suffering because of his "pride" why would James commend him, and hold him up as an example? What say you? According to you, is Job persevering in stubborn pride and self-righteousness? That seems to be how you see the story. So why would James commend Job for that?

4. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, as you are accusing him, then why does Job cry out to God, seek for Him, and continue desiring to have his relationship restored with Him? Wouldn't a proud person simply be done with God after suffering so horrendously? These concepts in your interpretation appear to be completely incompatible. Can you explain?

5. If it's your position that Job is in "sin" then where is the sacrifice for his sin? Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. The 3 friends are convicted by God of sin, and God requires a sacrifice to be made for their atonement. So if you are accusing Job of sinning, where is the sacrifice required for his sin?

Do you have any answers to these questions? Can you answer them?

Words have meanings. I said God did not have anything good to say to Job. I did not say God did not have anything good to say about Job, and God did not have anything good to say to Job, and that was because Job had not repented yet. Later, after Job had repented, God praised Job for repenting, which was something the three friends had not done yet.

God had Job plead for his friends because Job had pleaded to God that if only his friends would plead for him. And since Job was now saved God would hear him.

Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

The blood offering God required was a picture of what Christ would do on the cross.

Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God did not have anything good to say to Job.

What are you talking about???

God revealed Himself to Job in chapters 38-41. After God revealed Himself, Job knew God in a more intimate way than he had before satan's attack.

You and I are not in agreement as to when Job lived. I know you believe Job lived in a later time period than I believe Job lived. My understanding is that God told Job about creation before the creation account in Genesis was revealed to Moses. And what God revealed to Job about Himself in those four chapters is utterly fantastic.

.

 

[ZNP]

Where have you answered anything? We need some intellectual honesty in place of word salad.

If you don't understand what propitiation is, or what the Priesthood according to Melchisedek is then just say so. But saying that the book of Job presents the Priesthood according to Melchisedek the same way Leviticus presents the levitical priesthood should be seen as an answer to every question you have asked me, it you don't understand that then simply ask.

 

[christophernyc]

Words have meanings. I said God did not have anything good to say to Job. I did not say God did not have anything good to say about Job, and God did not have anything good to say to Job, and that was because Job had not repented yet. Later, after Job had repented, God praised Job for repenting, which was something the three friends had not done yet.

This is how you wrote your statement:

Do you realize that God did not have one good thing to say to Job after the second test.

You wrote "after the second test" as if it's a comparison to before the second test. Well, God does not say anything *to* Job before the tests either, He only says things *about* him. It appears you are referring to when God saying Job is perfect and upright, fearing God and shunning evil, which is also *about* Job and not *to* him. That is how have framed the point.

This kind of equivocation is a disservice and only muddies the conversation.

God had Job plead for his friends because Job had pleaded to God that if only his friends would plead for him. And since Job was now saved God would hear him.

Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

Job was a man of faith with an established relationship with God. That's in the text. Your conjecture Job is not "saved" is not in the text. I know the places you refer to, and will be happy to address in another post (i.e., you say Job does not know where God is, etc.).

The blood offering God required was a picture of what Christ would do on the cross.

Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

So explain why the 3 friends were required to offer a sacrifice for their sin. It's clearly a part of this story. Yes, everyone here knows the ultimate sacrifice was Jesus's shed blood on the Cross. So explain why sacrifice is used here in this story with the 3 friends and not with Job.

But are you able to answer these questions? Yes or no? Here they are again:

1. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, why is that information not included in chapters 1 and 2?

2. Is it your belief then that God's mission in allowing Job to suffer is because Job is so proud that God must resort to allowing him to be viciously attacked and beaten into submission? If Job was "proud" as you claim, was God not able to confront Job in another way, and lead him to repentance by simply convicting him of sin? Doesn't God's kindness lead to repentance?

3. Have you ever responded to the words of the apostle James and what he writes about Job in his epistle? James commends Job for persevering and enduring through his trial. One of the main themes of James's epistle is the believer being tested in their faith, and then he provides Job as an example. If Job is suffering because of his "pride" why would James commend him, and hold him up as an example? What say you? According to you, is Job persevering in stubborn pride and self-righteousness? That seems to be how you see the story. So why would James commend Job for that?

4. If Job is full of pride and self-righteousness, as you are accusing him, then why does Job cry out to God, seek for Him, and continue desiring to have his relationship restored with Him? Wouldn't a proud person simply be done with God after suffering so horrendously? These concepts in your interpretation appear to be completely incompatible. Can you explain?

 

[tttallison]

What are you talking about???

God revealed Himself to Job in chapters 38-41. After God revealed Himself, Job knew God in a more intimate way than he had before satan's attack.

You and I are not in agreement as to when Job lived. I know you believe Job lived in a later time period than I believe Job lived. My understanding is that God told Job about creation before the creation account in Genesis was revealed to Moses. And what God revealed to Job about Himself in those four chapters is utterly fantastic.

.

What am I talking about? When God was speaking directly to Job God had nothing good to say about Job, only criticism.

Yes, Job knew God in a more intimate way in the last chapter, and that is called salvation.

Yes I believe it is a very late book. God did not explain creation to Job, but rather asked Job if he was there at creation, and understood it.

God was presenting what Elihu had already presented to Job in chapters 36 and 37, only God added a few more questions in chapters 38 and 39.

If you have evidence that Job is an early book I would like to hear about it. Some one saying it is an old book is not evidence.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you have evidence that Job is an early book I would like to hear about it.

I have already provided the information ... you do not agree.

Some one saying it is an old book is not evidence.

Just as someone saying it was written later is not evidence.

.