Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations

[Psalm1]

There is probably a name for your logic.
1) an erroneous doctrine
2) fixed in a deception
3) without collaboration
4) proves the error


1) You are saying that metaphors are erroneous.
2) You are saying that the interpretation of metaphors is a deception.
3) You are saying that reading metaphors requires collaboration.
4) You are saying that the above three proves the error.

Nothing in the bible is erroneous, whether allegory or literal.
You making things up ( obviously) is error every time.

Like I said the virgin parable is one of the easiest and vivid no brainers.
Tons of vivid allegory.
Yet You missed it.
How, I have no idea.
But in order to spin it, you have motive...correct?

 

[LTL]

Nothing in the bible is erroneous, whether allegory or literal.
You making things up ( obviously) is error every time.

Like I said the virgin parable is one of the easiest and vivid no brainers.
Tons of vivid allegory.
Yet You missed it.
How, I have no idea.
But in order to spin it, you have motive...correct?

Are you using the word "virgin" literally or metaphorically?

 

[Psalm1]

Are you using the word "virgin" literally or metaphorically?

The entire parable, is allegory.
A story withing a story, representing a truth or dynamic to educate the reader.

As is the case in every parable.
Virgin =pure, undefiled, set apart, holy, and kept pure for a purpose.

 

[Psalm1]

Are you using the word "virgin" literally or metaphorically?

How can it possibly be literal?

 

[Psalm1]

There is probably a name for your logic.
1) an erroneous doctrine
2) fixed in a deception
3) without collaboration
4) proves the error


1) You are saying that metaphors are erroneous.
2) You are saying that the interpretation of metaphors is a deception.
3) You are saying that reading metaphors requires collaboration.
4) You are saying that the above three proves the error.

Demonstrate a single example of my error, or deception.

Expose your own silly lies for us.

You seem to get into wild baseless personal mess when challenged.

 

[LTL]

The entire parable, is allegory.
A story withing a story, representing a truth or dynamic to educate the reader.

As is the case in every parable.
Virgin =pure, undefiled, set apart, holy, and kept pure for a purpose.

Okay. Great.

The word "virgin" is not literal and refers to saints having been cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

 

[Maestro]

The only people who go into the millennium will be those who become Christians everybody else will be destroyed and the 7 year tribulation will be like hell on Earth ( remember no Christians and no Holy Spirit to hold back evil) but if you take the mark of the beast you have condemned yourself.
But those who accept Christ as saviour at this time there are Bibles and other mediums plus 144000 Jewish evangelists and Angels going throughout the Earth plus people realising all the Christians disappeared will probably be the biggest conversation’s in history.
1000 years under Christs rule with us, abundance of everything but still with all this goodness people rebellion at the end.
Why because these converts still have inherited sin and their offspring of 1000 years of breeding means a lot of new people with free will as this millennium is ruled with an iron rod. Human nature is evil and only Christ can solve this problem.

 

[LTL]

The only people who go into the millennium will be those who become Christians everybody else will be destroyed and the 7 year tribulation will be like hell on Earth ( remember no Christians and no Holy Spirit to hold back evil) but if you take the mark of the beast you have condemned yourself.
But those who accept Christ as saviour at this time there are Bibles and other mediums plus 144000 Jewish evangelists and Angels going throughout the Earth plus people realising all the Christians disappeared will probably be the biggest conversation’s in history.
1000 years under Christs rule with us, abundance of everything but still with all this goodness people rebellion at the end.
Why because these converts still have inherited sin and their offspring of 1000 years of breeding means a lot of new people with free will as this millennium is ruled with an iron rod. Human nature is evil and only Christ can solve this problem.

Hi M.
As we move into the tribulation, the economy will fall and be replaced by a new economy. This economic fall will kill hundreds of millions. And many of the saints will take the mark of the beast and participate in this new economy. However, many saints will evade the mark of the beast and will be hunted like the Jews of Nazi Germany in WWII.

During this time, the U.S. will be a wasteland, having been ravaged by civil war. So the tribulation really is as you said, "hell on earth."
As these things develop, the 144,000 will be taken to a location here upon the earth, to prepare them for the coming gathering of saints. Then, near the 3-year mark, the 144,000 gather the saints of God to that same secure location. Both of these events are stated in Rev. 12:6, 14.

Then the beast and his false prophet are destroyed, and the tribulation is over. The length of time for the tribulation is 3.5-years. Next comes the gathering of the repentant. This period involves judging who will not be included, and this is stated in Rev. 16:2-7. Thus, it is called the 3.5-year judgment era.

After the judgment, the saints are taken off the earth in a rapture, and the earth is cleansed by fire. Later, the saints are returned to repopulate the earth during the thousand-year reign of the Savior. It is during this time that the saints of the first resurrection come forth to their eternal bodies. After the thousand years is over there is a second resurrection for those who are spiritually dead. Some of these die a second death and are cast out to an abyss worse than hell.

In total there are two resurrections. But there was also the resurrection of the dead at the time of the Savior's resurrection. So he is really in charge of this, and we are along for the ride.

 

[Maestro]

Hi M.
As we move into the tribulation, the economy will fall and be replaced by a new economy. This economic fall will kill hundreds of millions. And many of the saints will take the mark of the beast and participate in this new economy. However, many saints will evade the mark of the beast and will be hunted like the Jews of Nazi Germany in WWII.

During this time, the U.S. will be a wasteland, having been ravaged by civil war. So the tribulation really is as you said, "hell on earth."
As these things develop, the 144,000 will be taken to a location here upon the earth, to prepare them for the coming gathering of saints. Then, near the 3-year mark, the 144,000 gather the saints of God to that same secure location. Both of these events are stated in Rev. 12:6, 14.

Then the beast and his false prophet are destroyed, and the tribulation is over. The length of time for the tribulation is 3.5-years. Next comes the gathering of the repentant. This period involves judging who will not be included, and this is stated in Rev. 16:2-7. Thus, it is called the 3.5-year judgment era.

After the judgment, the saints are taken off the earth in a rapture, and the earth is cleansed by fire. Later, the saints are returned to repopulate the earth during the thousand-year reign of the Savior. It is during this time that the saints of the first resurrection come forth to their eternal bodies. After the thousand years is over there is a second resurrection for those who are spiritually dead. Some of these die a second death and are cast out to an abyss worse than hell.

In total there are two resurrections. But there was also the resurrection of the dead at the time of the Savior's resurrection. So he is really in charge of this, and we are along for the ride.

Hi thanks for your input some things I agree with you on the effects of the tribulation we can’t comprehend how bad it will be but you’re timing and mine differ but that doesn’t matter as each to their own.
I believe the Saints meaning departed Christians like my wife and those who are alive when the rapture comes will avoid the tribulation.
Interesting fact there are 5 raptures in the Bible.
Also the 144000 Jewish virgins who will be hated not one dies or is harmed.
Non of this matters as long as we are saved and most Christians don’t delve into revelation and not one of us is going to get it completely right.
Peace in the Lord Allen

 

[Psalm1]

The virgin parable.
a good start Start is with the components of the story.

1) 10 virgins
2) they are divided into 2 Groups.
3) they are half foolish/ half wise.
4) they all 10 had lamps
5) they WENT OUT TO MEET JESUS.
6) JESUS delayed.
7) all 10 had oil, lamps, fire, illumination.
8) we are told what made the wise "wise", and what made the foolish"foolish".
9) the amount of oil, or the presence of oil at the rapture ( gathering of the virgins by the groom) was the game changer)
10) a alert is made that the groom is approaching in mere minutes is made.
11) a scramble to prepare is made by all 10 virgins.
12) the foolish ask for an impartation of the Holy Spirit from/ by the wise.
( a transfer of the oil (Holy Spirit)).
13) the request is rejected on a basis.
14) the basis is revealed. "We could have normally, but there is no time and we will be like you...." found wanting".
15) when Jesus returns for the bride, for those wise virgins , (half the group), (half the church), the wise go from one location to another, no uturn.
(3 distinct locations in the parable.) Again, no uturn.
16) the wise are taken to the wedding chamber in heaven.
17) The foolish that are left behind are forced to face the AC.

 

[Psalm1]

Hi thanks for your input some things I agree with you on the effects of the tribulation we can’t comprehend how bad it will be but you’re timing and mine differ but that doesn’t matter as each to their own.
I believe the Saints meaning departed Christians like my wife and those who are alive when the rapture comes will avoid the tribulation.
Interesting fact there are 5 raptures in the Bible.
Also the 144000 Jewish virgins who will be hated not one dies or is harmed.
Non of this matters as long as we are saved and most Christians don’t delve into revelation and not one of us is going to get it completely right.
Peace in the Lord Allen

The 144,000 are in heaven in Rev 14.
They must die or be raptured.
No way around it.
They are firstfruits.
So "they", precede main harvest.
They are ethnic Jews.
So they, (firstfruit ethnic Jews), are firstfruit Jews to a Jewish main harvest.
The Main Jewish harvest, (more or less midpoint of 7 yr trib), is rev14:14.

No way around it.
In order for them to be firstfruits, they have to die or be raptured to heaven.(before main harvest).
FIRSTFRUITS guarantees main harvest is at the door.
I don't see where they preach the gospel.
Where is that verse?

 

[LTL]

The virgin parable.
a good start Start is with the components of the story.

1) 10 virgins
2) they are divided into 2 Groups.
3) they are half foolish/ half wise.
4) they all 10 had lamps
5) they WENT OUT TO MEET JESUS.
6) JESUS delayed.
7) all 10 had oil, lamps, fire, illumination.
8) we are told what made the wise "wise", and what made the foolish"foolish".
9) the amount of oil, or the presence of oil at the rapture ( gathering of the virgins by the groom) was the game changer)
10) a alert is made that the groom is approaching in mere minutes is made.
11) a scramble to prepare is made by all 10 virgins.
12) the foolish ask for an impartation of the Holy Spirit from/ by the wise.
( a transfer of the oil (Holy Spirit)).
13) the request is rejected on a basis.
14) the basis is revealed. "We could have normally, but there is no time and we will be like you...." found wanting".
15) when Jesus returns for the bride, for those wise virgins , (half the group), (half the church), the wise go from one location to another, no uturn.
(3 distinct locations in the parable.) Again, no uturn.
16) the wise are taken to the wedding chamber in heaven.
17) The foolish that are left behind are forced to face the AC.

P1,
I can see why you regard the parable as an allegory, like a "fill in the blank" document.
12) The oil is the holy ghost?
14) The foolish are told to buy from those who sell because there is not enough to go around. Like, there is not enough of the Holy Ghost to go around, and this member of the godhead must be purchased.

Think about what can be purchased to keep the family alive? It is food. The oil that can be purchased is food. It is simply a metaphor. Like virgins is a metaphor meaning the saints of God. The purchase of oil is the purchase of food.

 

[Maestro]

The 144,000 are in heaven in Rev 14.
They must die or be raptured.
No way around it.
They are firstfruits.
So "they", precede main harvest.
They are ethnic Jews.
So they, (firstfruit ethnic Jews), are firstfruit Jews to a Jewish main harvest.
The Main Jewish harvest, (more or less midpoint of 7 yr trib), is rev14:14.

No way around it.
In order for them to be firstfruits, they have to die or be raptured to heaven.(before main harvest).
FIRSTFRUITS guarantees main harvest is at the door.
I don't see where they preach the gospel.
Where is that verse?

Yes I agree but you have all the Old Testament Jews that have died throughout the Old Testament that I believe? Jesus collected from Sheol or whatever you wish to call the place as Jesus so the Bible tells us Jesus went to preach to those in the times of Noah and remember the thief on the cross who Just said to him today you will be in paradise plus the Jewish believers after Jesus reserrection Luke 16:19-31).
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So there are plenty to go round as these believers like us who are raptured receive our glorious new bodies.
And then the souls under the altar waiting for vengeance who were martyred in this great tribulation. ( these will have to wait )
I don’t know exactly how things work out and never will and nobody else does but the Bible has a lot of answers if like me and you look hard enough.
I am happy at what I believe is going to happen but we will have to wait and see.
But if we are saved that’s all that really matters but I am not static in my beliefs because I am always open to new interpretations of Gods word if they are a better fit than I have come to accept.
Allen.

 

[Psalm1]

Yes I agree but you have all the Old Testament Jews that have died throughout the Old Testament that I believe? Jesus collected from Sheol or whatever you wish to call the place as Jesus so the Bible tells us Jesus went to preach to those in the times of Noah and remember the thief on the cross who Just said to him today you will be in paradise plus the Jewish believers after Jesus reserrection Luke 16:19-31).
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So there are plenty to go round as these believers like us who are raptured receive our glorious new bodies.
And then the souls under the altar waiting for vengeance who were martyred in this great tribulation. ( these will have to wait )
I don’t know exactly how things work out and never will and nobody else does but the Bible has a lot of answers if like me and you look hard enough.
I am happy at what I believe is going to happen but we will have to wait and see.
But if we are saved that’s all that really matters but I am not static in my beliefs because I am always open to new interpretations of Gods word if they are a better fit than I have come to accept.
Allen.

Those dynamics are the first resurrection.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection .

The 144k are the firstfruits of the Jewish harvest.
That happens right before the wrath.

 

[LTL]

Yes I agree but you have all the Old Testament Jews that have died throughout the Old Testament that I believe? Jesus collected from Sheol or whatever you wish to call the place as Jesus so the Bible tells us Jesus went to preach to those in the times of Noah and remember the thief on the cross who Just said to him today you will be in paradise plus the Jewish believers after Jesus reserrection Luke 16:19-31).
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So there are plenty to go round as these believers like us who are raptured receive our glorious new bodies.
And then the souls under the altar waiting for vengeance who were martyred in this great tribulation. ( these will have to wait )
I don’t know exactly how things work out and never will and nobody else does but the Bible has a lot of answers if like me and you look hard enough.
I am happy at what I believe is going to happen but we will have to wait and see.
But if we are saved that’s all that really matters but I am not static in my beliefs because I am always open to new interpretations of Gods word if they are a better fit than I have come to accept.
Allen.

M,
It good that you are willing to wait and see. So when the rapture does not arrive as you expect, then stand firm in your testimony. That is the answer. In the meantime, however, millions will die. And if you are one of those, do not yield your testimony in Jesus Christ.

 

[LTL]

Those dynamics are the first resurrection.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection .

The 144k are the firstfruits of the Jewish harvest.
That happens right before the wrath.

P1,
What is the Jewish harvest? Who is saying this? Where is it found in scripture?

 

[Psalm1]

P1,
I can see why you regard the parable as an allegory, like a "fill in the blank" document.
12) The oil is the holy ghost?
14) The foolish are told to buy from those who sell because there is not enough to go around. Like, there is not enough of the Holy Ghost to go around, and this member of the godhead must be purchased.

Think about what can be purchased to keep the family alive? It is food. The oil that can be purchased is food. It is simply a metaphor. Like virgins is a metaphor meaning the saints of God. The purchase of oil is the purchase of food.

No parable is fill in the blank.
They all have components.
If those components are tampered with, then there is no point in even reading it.
QUOTE

Rev 3
17;Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

We see "buying" again here in Rev 3
Buying points to "not having", then the remedy being "possession".
Both mat 25 and Rev 3 have "buying" connected to spiritual deprivation.

In both cases "buying" ,is, "go and get".

Buying is simply "go and get".

Oil will be the Holy Spirit. (oil in the parable)
Note that the oil was normally transferable.
Same as the Holy Spirit being transferable.

In Rev 3 it is gold refined in fire.
Again purity of Gold. No dross. No contaminants. Purity throug fire.
Pure = the Holy Spirit.

 

[Maestro]

M,
It good that you are willing to wait and see. So when the rapture does not arrive as you expect, then stand firm in your testimony. That is the answer. In the meantime, however, millions will die. And if you are one of those, do not yield your testimony in Jesus Christ.

Well at my age unless the rapture comes soon I will be one of the first to be raised from the dead.
I know one thing my faith is strong and nothing on this earth or anywhere else can ever take it away.
I have seen many things in this life including a lot of deaths, friends, wife, family, including my nephew + two others at the same time.
But also the revival in the 80s and had the pleasure of organising a trip to see Billy Graham in the UK .

 

[LTL]

Well at my age unless the rapture comes soon I will be one of the first to be raised from the dead.
I know one thing my faith is strong and nothing on this earth or anywhere else can ever take it away.
I have seen many things in this life including a lot of deaths, friends, wife, family, including my nephew + two others at the same time.
But also the revival in the 80s and had the pleasure of organising a trip to see Billy Graham in the UK .

M,
A friend told me years ago that he used to deliver baked goods, like rolls and donuts, to Billy Graham's house.
I remember the Billy Graham crusades on TV.
He was powerful.

But first, there is a civil war coming for the U.S. as the economy falls.
Figure the population of the earth reduces by eight billion over seven years. That's like a billion per year.

And Christians think they will escape this via a rapture. It is not going to happen.

At best, they can hold on for about three years to be harvested (Rev. 14:14-16). But even then, they must wait till the end of the seven years to be taken up as the earth is cleansed by fire.

So it is going to be horroriffic. No one escapes, and all must rely on their testimonies.

 

[Psalm1]

M,
A friend told me years ago that he used to deliver baked goods, like rolls and donuts, to Billy Graham's house.
I remember the Billy Graham crusades on TV.
He was powerful.

But first, there is a civil war coming for the U.S. as the economy falls.
Figure the population of the earth reduces by eight billion over seven years. That's like a billion per year.

And Christians think they will escape this via a rapture. It is not going to happen.

At best, they can hold on for about three years to be harvested (Rev. 14:14-16). But even then, they must wait till the end of the seven years to be taken up as the earth is cleansed by fire.

So it is going to be horroriffic. No one escapes, and all must rely on their testimonies.

"""And Christians think they will escape this via a rapture. It is not going to happen."""

Then by jettisonong the 8 or 15 pretrib rapture verses you must have many more counter verses.

Maybe post one so I can also cut out those menacing pretrib rapture verses.