Doubting Salvation? What's Your Belief?

[Mreal402]

I do believe that the desire to repent is a gift which can be removed (Heb 6:4-6)...and that continuing in sin should lead us to expect judgment - at the Bema Seat, Judgment Seat of Christ. Some will be saved, yet as through fire...1 Corinthians 3:15 That is an exceptionally sobering truth to consider. In Christ we will face judgment for our works as sealed, saved servants and adopted children I believe - likewise I believe His promise to be the "Author and Finisher" of our faith is true. I will not be moved!
We may grieve the Spirit...but break His seal of promise? I say no.

 

[GWH]

I do believe that the desire to repent is a gift which can be removed (Heb 6:4-6)...and that continuing in sin should lead us to expect judgment - at the Bema Seat, Judgment Seat of Christ. Some will be saved, yet as through fire...1 Corinthians 3:15 That is an exceptionally sobering truth to consider. In Christ we will face judgment for our works as sealed, saved servants and adopted children I believe - likewise I believe His promise to be the "Author and Finisher" of our faith is true. I will not be moved!
We may grieve the Spirit...but break His seal of promise? I say no.

There are two types of people in your post:

1. Christians who are not disqualified because of forgivable sins (1Cor. 3:15).
2. Christians who are disqualified if they repudiate saving faith (Heb. 6:4-6).

Being the Author means God enables/gives sinners MFW to repent/seek/believe,
and being the Finisher assumes saints persevere in having saving faith per the following promises:


Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[Chester]

Its just that simple

The thief on the cross simply believed - and then he openly testified of his faith by his words: no water baptism, no statement of theology: he just had good old fashioned grace from God that resulted in a deep faith that openly testified (worked)!

 

[sawdust]

I've heard people say that they don't know if they're saved, and some go so far as to "rededicate" their lives of Christ at some institutional church altar with some getting water baptized again, and some again and again...

Did some of you lose your salvation? How?

Do some of you believe you can't lose it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn and/or retain it by your good works, or by abstaining from some sins? Why?

Do some of you believe your water baptism saved you, or that it sealed your salvation? Why?

MM

I think a lot of times it is well intentioned people who desperately want to live righteous lives but go about it backwards. Instead of focusing on Christ and His work, they look to themselves to see where they are going wrong and how they can improve.

Constantly looking at the fallible is bound to cause doubts and fears.

Matthew 11:28
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Heb.12:1-2a
1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.

When we focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and rest in His all encompassing provision, trusting His word to be true no matter what our five senses might try to tell us, we can rest in His grace and mercy and be confident in our salvation.

 

[Kroogz]

I've heard people say that they don't know if they're saved, and some go so far as to "rededicate" their lives of Christ at some institutional church altar with some getting water baptized again, and some again and again...

Did some of you lose your salvation? How?

Do some of you believe you can't lose it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn and/or retain it by your good works, or by abstaining from some sins? Why?

Do some of you believe your water baptism saved you, or that it sealed your salvation? Why?

MM

Saved by Grace through faith ............PERIOD.

We will get all kinds of "salvation" If we don't stick to HIS protocol.

 

[Mreal402]

There are two types of people in your post:

1. Christians who are not disqualified because of forgivable sins (1Cor. 3:15).
2. Christians who are disqualified if they repudiate saving faith (Heb. 6:4-6).

Being the Author means God enables/gives sinners MFW to repent/seek/believe,
and being the Finisher assumes saints persevere in having saving faith per the following promises:


Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

My position is no one saved can be disqualified.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame."

This verse is often quoted to me in regards to losing salvation - but I see not one thing in this verse describing salvation at all. The ability to repent, or to be brought again unto repentence? Absolutely...which we are warned over and over about hardening our heart regarding willful sin as believers - the ability and desire to REPENT as a believer is a gift - one which can be removed apparently.

 

[GWH]

My position is no one saved can be disqualified.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame."

This verse is often quoted to me in regards to losing salvation - but I see not one thing in this verse describing salvation at all. The ability to repent, or to be brought again unto repentence? Absolutely...which we are warned over and over about hardening our heart regarding willful sin as believers - the ability and desire to REPENT as a believer is a gift - one which can be removed apparently.

I understand you to believe that it is impossible for a believer to repudiate saving faith/commit apostasy
despite the numerous warnings in GW indicating that it IS possible!

Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[Mreal402]

I understand you to believe that it is impossible for a believer to repudiate saving faith/commit apostasy
despite the numerous warnings in GW indicating that it IS possible!

Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

If you are defining repudiate as a refusal to accept or acknowledge then I agree with you - a believer may indeed for whatever reason come to refuse to believe once they are saved by God's grace that they are sealed until the final day of redemption and think they can somehow undo the work of grace God has given them. I submit that they would simply be wrong/deceived regarding what God's word says on the matter, which of course is the ultimate arbiter of truth.

 

[GWH]

If you are defining repudiate as a refusal to accept or acknowledge then I agree with you - a believer may indeed for whatever reason come to refuse to believe once they are saved by God's grace that they are sealed until the final day of redemption and think they can somehow undo the work of grace God has given them. I submit that they would simply be wrong/deceived regarding what God's word says on the matter, which of course is the ultimate arbiter of truth.

I submit that you ignore what GW says on the matter that I quoted,
so please state your reason for disagreeing with each verse one at a time.

 

[Mreal402]

I submit that you ignore what GW says on the matter that I quoted,
so please state your reason for disagreeing with each verse one at a time.

I submit that you ignore what GW says on the matter that I quoted,
so please state your reason for disagreeing with each verse one at a time.

That is a rather arrogant position on your part - we don't even know each other. It seems we have a large gulf between us as relates to salvation being permanent or conditional - and while it is a very important doctrine I believe, arrogance isn't necessary - zeal perhaps. I have tons to learn and in no way believe I know it all or have a full knowledge and wisdom as a believer. That being said, I will never surrender my position that I am saved and KEPT by God's grace alone - as regards to my salvation. If that stance causes you to believe I ignore God's word I'm ok with that.

 

[Mreal402]

I submit that you ignore what GW says on the matter that I quoted,
so please state your reason for disagreeing with each verse one at a time.

I submit that you ignore what GW says on the matter that I quoted,
so please state your reason for disagreeing with each verse one at a time.

I noticed you didn't respond to my discussion point regarding how you are defining repudiate...I am honestly curious.

 

[Musicmaster]

Interesting verse. There are many like it. Here are the notes in the margin of the NKJV - 1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chr. 28:9; Matt. 9:4; [Mark 2:8]; John 6:64; 16:30; Acts 1:24; Rev. 2:23.

As regards a person's salvation, it seems reasonable to think that when a person responds to God's evangelistic call to turn to Jesus for salvation (John 6:44) that he understands that God knows everything about him and as a result would not be trying to hide anything from Him. And it would also seem reasonable that he would have an understanding that he was being drawn to Jesus for salvation with all his shortcomings in God's view so that his positive response would include the forgiveness of all his shortcomings.

How does a person who has heard and learned from God to go to Jesus for salvation (John 6:45) lose confidence that Jesus has saved him? It seems reasonable to think that his eyes must have drifted away from the fact that he was saved with all his shortcomings in view.

Many a preacher has asked his congregation, "What is the gospel?" In answer to the silence, which is expected of the audience given the status quo of the congregation remaining silent anyway, they then launch into a 30+ minute dissertation to try and explain a gospel so vastly complex in definition that not one of the hearers will remember it all.

The Gospel is simple, and requires nowhere near a 30 minute sermon:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

No command for water baptism or anything else of works, contrary to what some out there claim otherwise. Simply believing, and these verses define what it is to believe, what it is to "come to Christ," or to "enter in," or whatever other descriptor they may use. The works-based gang will always claim that this is nothing but "easy believe-ism..." That battering ram silences the weaker in the faith, making them feel as though they must do works to finish the earning of their salvation and even to retain their salvation from then onward. How tragic that anyone would make salvation about our faithfulness rather than the Lord's faithfulness:

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Ah, but the desire to please the false god of the works-based salvationists drives them into denying this by them applying their own brand of "interpretation" as a battering ram against the clarity of the language that speaks of it not being of ourselves.

Good stuff, NLIC.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Actually, back then it was not an act to get their sins forgiven but rather an act to acknowledge that their sins had been forgiven.

True, but that act of acknowledgement was not commanded of us today.

According to the Dead Sea Scrolls, which predate Jesus, Gentiles could be included in the baptism to recognize that their sins were forgiven.

Gentiles could only realize salvation by joining with Israel before the fall of Israel. That's what that middle wall of partition was all about of which Paul spoke. Therein is why Paul stated that, in those times, Gentiles were outside the commonwealth of Israel, without God, without Christ and without hope. This is denied by many Evangelicals to day who have swallowed the various rudiments of replacement theology.

There are many truths about the pre-Christian beliefs that Christian tradition likes to ignore or misinterpret.

Yes. Very well said. I have yet to meet one Evangelical, Charismatic, Reformed, cult member of other religions and denominations who have said to me that they heard their preacher teach the requirement for Gentiles, in times past, had to join with Israel for salvation before the fall of Israel.

One would think that all those who claim to love the Bible would believe what it says...

MM

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Gentiles could only realize salvation by joining with Israel before the fall of Israel. That's what that middle wall of partition was all about of which Paul spoke. Therein is why Paul stated that, in those times, Gentiles were outside the commonwealth of Israel, without God, without Christ and without hope. This is denied by many Evangelicals to day who have swallowed the various rudiments of replacement theology.

That happened decades earlier in Acts 10 when the door was officially opened to the gentiles.

 

[frederickdoc]

In John 13, when Peter mistakenly asks Jesus to wash his entire body, hands, and head, Jesus corrects him:
John 13:10 (KJV): "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean..."
The Spiritual Reality: When you Accept Jesus, you receive a full Spiritual "Bath". Your identity is changed Forever, and you are Declared completely Clean ("Every Whit") in the eyes of God. You do not need to be re-saved or fully "re-bathed" every time you make a mistake
Dust
Even though your body is clean from the bath, walking through the dusty, broken world causes your feet to pick up dirt.

• The Spiritual Reality: You don't " (whine) or grovel in fear of losing your salvation. Instead, your daily prayers are simply holding out your feet to Jesus, saying, "Lord, wash off the dirt from where I walked today." It is a matter of maintaining clear fellowship, not begging for a brand-new birth.

Grace "Covers" the Journey
You mentioned it is like a "cover". The Apostle John later expands on this beautifully:

• 1 John 1:7 (KJV): "...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
• The Spiritual Reality: The word "cleanseth" in the original text implies an ongoing, continuous action. His grace covers you constantly. Your daily confession is just letting Him rinse away the dust of daily offenses, habits, or negative thoughts so that your walk remains unimpeded. understanding is perfectly sound: you are already completely clean because of Christ’s finished work. Your daily relationship with Jesus is about keeping your feet clean so you can walk closely with Him without the dirt of the world getting in the way.

Would you like to explore how 1 John 1 explains the difference between the "bath" and the "foot washing",

 

[EmethAlethia]

I've heard people say that they don't know if they're saved, and some go so far as to "rededicate" their lives of Christ at some institutional church altar with some getting water baptized again, and some again and again...

Did some of you lose your salvation? How?

Do some of you believe you can't lose it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn and/or retain it by your good works, or by abstaining from some sins? Why?

Do some of you believe your water baptism saved you, or that it sealed your salvation? Why?

MM

While it is possible to completely refuse to judge yourself correctly and practice a life of sin, "If" you are a true Christian, this choice ALWAYS results in God Himself correcting you. Heb. 12:6-8 And this "Correction by God" always takes the form of sickness, weakness, and or physical death ("Sleep": 1Co. 15:51 Not a loss of salvation, just being taken home because you are an embarrassment to your Father.) and example of this is the non-repentant Christian who is sleeping with his stepmother and showing up in church. 1Co. 5:5

If you do not see the correction of God, and you depart from the faith, and live as you please, it always means you were never a child in the 1st place. 1Jn. 2:19

Salvation is a "Free gift" never earned. All we've "earned" is the death on the cross and eternity in hell.

Salvation always produces a specific set of ongoing "Fruits" Mat. 7:15-20 that those who believe they are saved but fail the "Fruits" tests can never possess. The "Fruits" result from the beliefs but are the proof of it. Faith without works is "Stillborn". It is a birth that produced no life.

Water baptism is an outward profession of a change of belief.

 

[GWH]

I noticed you didn't respond to my discussion point regarding how you are defining repudiate...I am honestly curious.

To repudiate means to reject, deny, or refuse to accept or be associated with something.
It often implies formally disowning or severing ties with something that was previously accepted (2Tim. 2:12),
such as a claim, a contract, or a belief, such as "Jesus is Lord" (Acts 16:31).

I notice you did not respond to my request for you to please state your reason for disagreeing with what I posted.

 

[GWH]

I've heard people say that they don't know if they're saved, and some go so far as to "rededicate" their lives of Christ at some institutional church altar with some getting water baptized again, and some again and again...

Did some of you lose your salvation? How?

Do some of you believe you can't lose it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn and/or retain it by your good works, or by abstaining from some sins? Why?

Do some of you believe your water baptism saved you, or that it sealed your salvation? Why?

MM

Do some of you believe you can repudiate saving faith? Why?: Because of GW that teaches the need for perseverance:

Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[Musicmaster]

While it is possible to completely refuse to judge yourself correctly and practice a life of sin, "If" you are a true Christian, this choice ALWAYS results in God Himself correcting you. Heb. 12:6-8 And this "Correction by God" always takes the form of sickness, weakness, and or physical death ("Sleep": 1Co. 15:51 Not a loss of salvation, just being taken home because you are an embarrassment to your Father.) and example of this is the non-repentant Christian who is sleeping with his stepmother and showing up in church. 1Co. 5:5

If you do not see the correction of God, and you depart from the faith, and live as you please, it always means you were never a child in the 1st place. 1Jn. 2:19

Salvation is a "Free gift" never earned. All we've "earned" is the death on the cross and eternity in hell.

Salvation always produces a specific set of ongoing "Fruits" Mat. 7:15-20 that those who believe they are saved but fail the "Fruits" tests can never possess. The "Fruits" result from the beliefs but are the proof of it. Faith without works is "Stillborn". It is a birth that produced no life.

Water baptism is an outward profession of a change of belief.

The problem is convincing the works-based salvation gang of these things. They're fixated on their fleshly pride in the strength of their own works to save them and/or to retain their salvation. They duplicate themselves in their failure to rightly divide the word of truth, producing more and more just like them, similar to what Jesus said:

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

This is serious stuff their preaching that other gospel.

MM

 

[JacobGilbert]

I've heard people say that they don't know if they're saved, and some go so far as to "rededicate" their lives of Christ at some institutional church altar with some getting water baptized again, and some again and again...

Did some of you lose your salvation? How?

Do some of you believe you can't lose it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn it? Why?

Do some of you believe you have to earn and/or retain it by your good works, or by abstaining from some sins? Why?

Do some of you believe your water baptism saved you, or that it sealed your salvation? Why?

MM

I believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, not something we earn or maintain through our works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I don't believe water baptism saves us, but I do believe it is an act of obedience that follows salvation.

As for assurance, I think many sincere Christians struggle with doubt at times, which is why passages like 1 John were written so believers may know they have eternal life (1 John 5:13).

Regarding losing salvation, faithful Christians have disagreed on that for centuries. Personally, I lean toward the view that salvation is secured by Christ and not by our ability to perform perfectly. At the same time, genuine faith should produce a changed life and a desire to follow Him. In other words you can walk away from Christ if you and only YOU chose to do so.

So for me, salvation is not earned, maintained, or sealed by works or baptism, but by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.