So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?

[Drich]

again start a new thread, i am not going to allow you to highjack this one.

sorry I though this was a different thread.

I'll not make a counter point, but ask two questions:
1. Give the book, chapter and verse that states all sex outside of marriage is sin. Fornication is sin, which involves M-F, not M-M.
2. Where in any of my posts have I supported or defended such a thing as Gay marriage?

1. Any time the word fornication fornicator is used it by defination of the word is refering to unmarried people having sex.

Hebrews 13:4
​

4Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Merrium-Webster:

fornication​

noun​

for·ni·ca·tion ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən

Synonyms of fornication
: consensual (see consensual sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other.

There was no one word for homosexuals at the time of christ. The word He had was a catch all term that meant or is translated "fornication" it means any and all sex outside of a sanctified marriage. Santified meaning god blessed relationship. This word for "fornication" include any and all sexual acts from masterbation to adultery to homosexuality as again it describes any and all sex outside of a sanctified marriage.That said Paul some decades later literally coins or create a totally new word from two existing words to describe the specific act of homosexuality so as to specifically identify same sex sin.That word is an unusual word. It’s a new word; we don’t know of any other instances of the word until Paul coins the word in 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1. It’s a compound word: “arsen” means man and “koite” or “koitas” or “koitai”—depending on a verb or a noun—means bed. It’s men who bed with other men.It’s quite clear that Paul has coined this word from Leviticus 18 and 20. Even if you don’t know any Greek, you could find online or pull up the Greek transliteration of these two verses. Look at the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and then just look at the Greek for the necessary passage in Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20 and you'll see there (and in fact the words are right next to each other in Leviticus 20) this word for man (“arsen”) and the word for bed (“koitai” or “koite”).https://www.crossway.org/articles/what-does-arsenokoitai-mean/

2. Whether you support gay marriage or not is irrelevant. My argument centers around that ALL Sex is a Sin, unless you have sex with in the boundaries of a sanctified marriage. This includes gay sex as gay sex outside of a sanctified marriage is also fornication. That is unless you can prove this rule does not apply to gay sex.

 

[Jon777]

again start a new thread, i am not going to allow you to highjack this one.

Am I missing something here? Are you a head Moderator who determines what amounts to highjacking a thread?

 

[Drich]

Am I missing something here? Are you a head Moderator who determines what amounts to highjacking a thread?

calm down old sport. If you keep reading I admit to my mistake. I thought you where highjacking one of my threads of another subject. I do not have to be a mod to choose not to answer you in this thread or any other.

 

[Jon777]

sorry I though this was a different thread.



1. Any time the word fornication fornicator is used it by defination of the word is refering to unmarried people having sex.

Hebrews 13:4​

​

4Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Merrium-Webster:

fornication​

noun​

for·ni·ca·tion ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən

Synonyms of fornication
: consensual (see consensual sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other.

There was no one word for homosexuals at the time of christ. The word He had was a catch all term that meant or is translated "fornication" it means any and all sex outside of a sanctified marriage. Santified meaning god blessed relationship. This word for "fornication" include any and all sexual acts from masterbation to adultery to homosexuality as again it describes any and all sex outside of a sanctified marriage.That said Paul some decades later literally coins or create a totally new word from two existing words to describe the specific act of homosexuality so as to specifically identify same sex sin.That word is an unusual word. It’s a new word; we don’t know of any other instances of the word until Paul coins the word in 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1. It’s a compound word: “arsen” means man and “koite” or “koitas” or “koitai”—depending on a verb or a noun—means bed. It’s men who bed with other men.It’s quite clear that Paul has coined this word from Leviticus 18 and 20. Even if you don’t know any Greek, you could find online or pull up the Greek transliteration of these two verses. Look at the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and then just look at the Greek for the necessary passage in Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 20 and you'll see there (and in fact the words are right next to each other in Leviticus 20) this word for man (“arsen”) and the word for bed (“koitai” or “koite”).https://www.crossway.org/articles/what-does-arsenokoitai-mean/

2. Whether you support gay marriage or not is irrelevant. My argument centers around that ALL Sex is a Sin, unless you have sex with in the boundaries of a sanctified marriage. This includes gay sex as gay sex outside of a sanctified marriage is also fornication. That is unless you can prove this rule does not apply to gay sex.

Okay, I see your explanation on highjacking a thread. I too have posted something on a thread other than what I thought I was on.

From the 22-Volume Oxford English Dictionary –

“fornication n - Voluntary sexual intercourse between a man (in restricted use, an unmarried man) and an unmarried woman. In Scripture extended to adultery.”

The Oxford applies the word “fornication” to opposite sexes, man and woman. See, it is written:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,” (1Cor 6:9, KJV)

The “abusers of themselves with mankind/arsenokoites” M-M sex, is distinguished from the “fornicators” M-F sex.

“For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind/arsenokoites, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1Tim 1:10, KJV)

The “them that defile themselves with mankind” is listed different from the whoremongers.

I know of no scripture where fornication is mentioned, where the genders are shown, that it is applied to M-M sex.

I find it odd that so many wish to cover gay sex with the word relating to marriage “fornication”, while at the same time rejecting gay marriage.

This is the reason I reject totally the changing “fornication” into “sexually immoral”! The term “sexually immoral” can be whatever some nutcase wishes to say it is. Maybe man and wife having sexual intercourse without intending procreation is “sexually immoral”.

 

[Brasspen]

This here should be part of this talk.

KJV Romans 14:20-23

"
{14:20} For meat destroy not the work of God. All
things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who
eateth with offence. {14:21} [It is] good neither to eat flesh,
nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother
stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. {14:22} Hast
thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he
that condemneth not himself in that thing which he
alloweth. {14:23} And he that doubteth is damned if he eat,
because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of
faith is sin.
"

 

[Drich]

Any specific reason you used volume 22 of the oxford english dictionary?

I ask because currently they only print a 20 volume set. Apart from this 20 volume set, they have an abridged 2 volume set. (The definitions do not change, the 2 volume set are more commonly used words.

Finally they have two on line versions as well. One you have to pay to access (Presumably the more exhaustive 20 volume set) and one that is free to the public (Two volume/common word set.)

Here is the current on line definition from the oxford english dictionary (The non pay wall definition

fornicate​

verb

/ˈfɔːnɪkeɪt/

/ˈfɔːrnɪkeɪt/
[intransitive] (formal, disapproving)
Verb Forms

1. to have sex with somebody that you are not married to

fornicate verb - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of fornicate verb in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

As you can see there seems to be a slight discrepancy in your citation, and representation of what the Oxford english dictionary records as the definition of fornicate, and what an official definition tells us the meaning of the word fornicate means.

So I am asking in an effort to clear up the official definition of this word is, Can you please provide a on line source that supports your claim, otherwise your whole argument is moot.

 

[Jon777]

If you study Rom 1:26-27, you see nothing about two males in a loving romantic relationship! But you can see a reflection of the debauchery seen in the LGBTQ Pride Parades, etc.

“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Rom 1:26-27, RSV)

I am attaching this study of arsenokoites to the previous study of Rom. 1:27 so back up and read the entire post of Rom. 1:27. Paul certainly had the same sinners in mind when we wrote each of these passages, so Rom 1:27 and 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:9-10 should all be seen together.

From The Ethics of Sex, Copyright 1964, by Helmut Thielicke (1908-1986) German Protestant theologian and rector of the University of Hamburg from 1960 to 1978 -
"One cannot expect to find in the theological ethics of German-speaking Protestantism a clear, consistent attitude toward homosexuality simply because hitherto the writers on ethics have taken little or no notice of the mere fact itself and therefore a body of opinion -- to say nothing of the unanimity of judgement -- is almost non-existent... Doctrinaire prejudices, which at the same time distort the theological problem presented by homosexuality, manifest themselves also in the fact that the value-judgment "homosexuality is sinful" is not isolated from an objective assessment of the phenomenon but is rather projected into it, and the result is that one arrives at an a priori defamation of those who are afflicted with this anomaly." page 269, 270 The ethics of sex : Thielicke, Helmut, 1908-1986 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

A sure tip off of homophobia is when someone uses sodomy and sodomite for homosexuality and homosexual. Those are not synonyms and only hateful or stupid persons would use them as if they were. When did those words originate? sodomy in c1300, sodomite in late 14c., homosexual in Germany 1869, coming into English 1895. You must do a careful word study to determine the meaning of uncertain or rare words in the NT Greek. Paul uses the word of M-M sex sin in Greek: arsenokoitēs and Paul apparently formed the word and it was not seen for over 100 years after. Over 1000 years passed after the 1st advent, before the church created the words/idea of sodomy & sodomites.

The word is compound arsen- koites and in English it is male-couch or bed. The word koites means “marriage bed” in Heb. 13:4, “conceived” in Rom 9:10, and the key to the word’s meaning, in Rom. 13:13, a vice-list where koites is between rioting and drunkenness; and wantonness where it is translated chambering. In this vice list, the word chambering means: “sexual indulgence, lewdness, wanton behaviour”. So, when combined arsen- koites that is a M-M sin of promiscuity (one-night stands). When you read arsen- koites in 1 Tim 1:9-10 you have context:
A lawless, disobedient ungodly, sinners,profane
B murderers of fathers, murderers of mothers, manslayers
C whoremongers(pornos), arsenokoites, menstealers
D liars, perjured persons

With the word between whoremongers and menstealers, we have added the element of violence. So, along with the promiscuity shown by Rom. 13:13, you now have violence. So, how does the 1828 Webster’s English Dictionary define:
ABU'SER, n. s as z. One who abuses, in speech or behavior; one that deceives; a ravisher; a sodomite. 1 Cor 6. *Notice this lets us know what a “sodomite” was meant in the 1828 W.
DEFILE, v.t. 5. To corrupt chastity; to debauch; to violate; to tarnish the purity of character by lewdness. Schechem defiled Dinah. Gen 34.

From the 1611 KJV all through the 1901 ASV, there is agreement on what the word means:
KJV - abusers of themselves with mankind
RV - abusers of themselves with men
YLT - sodomites
ASV - abusers of themselves with men

The word arsenokoites does not mean homosexual! The modern evangelical translations change the traditional, historic understanding of English translations that would be considered standard. The author’s use of a word overrules a differing Lexicon definition. By the way, many say Paul was using Lev. 18:22 when he wrote this, but Paul quoted from Leviticus several times, so if he had Lev 18:22 in mind, he would quote it. Since he uses the key words himself in the NT why look back into Leviticus.

 

[Jon777]

Any specific reason you used volume 22 of the oxford english dictionary?

I ask because currently they only print a 20 volume set. Apart from this 20 volume set, they have an abridged 2 volume set. (The definitions do not change, the 2 volume set are more commonly used words.

Finally they have two on line versions as well. One you have to pay to access (Presumably the more exhaustive 20 volume set) and one that is free to the public (Two volume/common word set.)

Here is the current on line definition from the oxford english dictionary (The non pay wall definition

fornicate​

verb

/ˈfɔːnɪkeɪt/

/ˈfɔːrnɪkeɪt/
[intransitive] (formal, disapproving)
Verb Forms

1. to have sex with somebody that you are not married to

fornicate verb - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of fornicate verb in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

As you can see there seems to be a slight discrepancy in your citation, and representation of what the Oxford english dictionary records as the definition of fornicate, and what an official definition tells us the meaning of the word fornicate means.

So I am asking in an effort to clear up the official definition of this word is, Can you please provide a on line source that supports your claim, otherwise your whole argument is moot.

I paid $100 for the full one-year OED subscription, so I use it. The main reason I use the OED is it gives the meaning of word down through its history, not just our current meaning. The 1828 Webster's is inline with the KJV meanings. Even with the usual Merriam-Webster type definitions, the meaning is in reference to "marriage", so M-F is the context; unless you want to adopt and accept gay marriage, M-M.

 

[Jon777]

This here should be part of this talk.

KJV Romans 14:20-23

"
{14:20} For meat destroy not the work of God. All
things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who
eateth with offence. {14:21} [It is] good neither to eat flesh,
nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother
stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. {14:22} Hast
thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he
that condemneth not himself in that thing which he
alloweth. {14:23} And he that doubteth is damned if he eat,
because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of
faith is sin.
"

I agree, a simple male to male sexual, emotional, romantic relationship should fit this chapter, Rom. 14. V21 I see when someone may be genuinely hurt by my beliefs that I would use caution, but when someone tries to tell me something is sin when the Bible does not say it, I reject that fully. But, in dealing with a sensitive Christian dealing with M-M romantic desires, who cannot set himself from from totally having ease in what I believe, I give a paragraph from an old Puritin Thomas Brooks on a matter like this:

Remedy (2). The second remedy against this device of Satan is, seriously to consider, That God has nowhere engaged himself by any particular promise, that souls converted and united to Christ shall not fall again and again into the same sin after conversion. I cannot find in the whole book of God where he has promised any such strength or power against this or that particular sin, as that the soul should be forever, in this life, put out of a possibility of falling again and again into the same sins. And where God has not a mouth to speak, I must not have a heart to believe. God will graciously pardon those sins to his people, which he will not in this life totally subdue in his people. I have never seen a promise in Scripture, which says that when our sorrow and grief has been so great, or so much, for this or that sin—that then God will preserve us from ever falling into the same sin. The sight of such a promise would be as life from the dead to many a precious soul, who desires nothing more than to keep close to Christ, and fears nothing more than backsliding from Christ.

In some cases the saints have found God better than his word. He promised the children of Israel only the land of Canaan; but besides that he gave them two other kingdoms which he never promised. And to Zacharias he promised to give him his speech at the birth of the child—but besides that he gave him the gift of prophecy. page 106

https://www.preachtheword.com/bookstore/remedies.pdf

 

[Drich]

I paid $100 for the full one-year OED subscription, so I use it. The main reason I use the OED is it gives the meaning of word down through its history, not just our current meaning. The 1828 Webster's is inline with the KJV meanings. Even with the usual Merriam-Webster type definitions, the meaning is in reference to "marriage", so M-F is the context; unless you want to adopt and accept gay marriage, M-M.

It's simple. If you can not find any other contemporary citable sources that I can access, then your whole argument is moot. There are several dozen dictionaries available on line. if NONE of them support your OED definition then perhaps your OED source is in error or you are when relaying the information it provides. Either way without a citable source that supports your specific definition the discussion ends here.

 

[Brasspen]

basically, your suppose to have God's permission. WHICH STILL APPLIES TODAY. Marriage don't mean anything, you need permission from God. You have to ask him first.

 

[Drich]

basically, your suppose to have God's permission. WHICH STILL APPLIES TODAY. Marriage don't mean anything, you need permission from God. You have to ask him first.

Great... do you have book chapter and verse that says marriage is nothing, you have to have God permission? I ask because Jesus said that Marriage IS A Contract that Gives us permission to become 'one flesh'/To have sex.

 

[Brasspen]

Ask GOD, and get your answer there, rather than building yourself up high, by hurting me making me feel stupid.

You dn't hear God's voice do you?

 

[Drich]

Ask GOD, and get your answer there,

I don't have to ask God if He says marriage is nothing. Because as I pointed out Jesus Marriage is a contract between the married couple and God that allows them to have sex.

rather than building yourself up high, by hurting me making me feel stupid.

If you feel stupid now, but would like not to, then speak where only the bible speaks. and Remain silent where the bible is silent when claiming to represent God and or His word. You feel stupid because you made a claim about God that the bible specifically Jesus contradicts.

You dn't hear God's voice do you?

I don't need to hear God's voice when I can read His word.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I'll not make a counter point, but ask two questions:
1. Give the book, chapter and verse that states all sex outside of marriage is sin. Fornication is sin, which involves M-F, not M-M.

Instead of quoting a bunch of academic perverts like Satanist f@g Alfred Kinsey, maybe you should start reading the first book of the Bible.
The Lord made a SPECIAL personal appearance to the Earth after hearing the children's cries.

20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

 

[Jon777]

It's simple. If you can not find any other contemporary citable sources that I can access, then your whole argument is moot. There are several dozen dictionaries available on line. if NONE of them support your OED definition then perhaps your OED source is in error or you are when relaying the information it provides. Either way without a citable source that supports your specific definition the discussion ends here.

I’m not going to do your work for you, but for others who may question the authority of the OED, I’ll give the following.

The Bible usage of “fornicator” and “fornication” when the genders are indicated, is always opposite sex. In 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 the fornicators are distinguished from the sodomites (arsenokoites). Almost all English dictionaries define the “fornication” in reference to marriage, which in the Bible is male with female; unless one wishes to go modern and think in terms to include gay marriage. I’ll stay with the older definition and the biblical usage. I did pay $100 to have access to the Oxford English Dictionary, and the reason I did so was because it gives the meaning of words in their historical context, so I could see what the KJV words meant in 1611/1769.

For those who do not wish to take the time and energy to go to a library to read the OED, the following definitions can be found online.

Easton’s Bible Dictionary
“An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin.
Easton's Bible Dictionary : Matthew G. Easton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

From Wordsmyth – The Premier Educational Dictionary-Thesaurus – Free Trial
“fornication - voluntary sexual relations between a man and woman not married to each other.”
https://www.wordsmyth.net/?ent=fornication

Fornication - Etymology, Origin & Meaning

"fornication, lewdness; prostitution; idolatry" (12c.), from Late Latin fornicationem… See origin and meaning of fornication.

www.etymonline.com

“fornication (n.) Strictly, "voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman;" extended in the Bible to adultery.”

For`ni`ca´tion – Webster’s 1913 Dictionary

n.

1.

Unlawful sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried person; the act of such illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman as does not by law amount to adultery.

https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/fornication

KEEP IN MIND, when you read dictionaries of today, you are reading definitions regarding sex and marriage in a very liberal way that includes gay marriage. I stay with the biblical meaning.

 

[Jon777]

Instead of quoting a bunch of academic perverts like Satanist f@g Alfred Kinsey, maybe you should start reading the first book of the Bible.
The Lord made a SPECIAL personal appearance to the Earth after hearing the children's cries.

20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

It is beneficial to use the entire context instead of reading your own bigotry into the scriptures.

"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: (Gen 19:4, KJV)

This was not spoken of only the sinful males, but all the people, male & female, young and old from every part of the city.

"And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door." (Gen 19:9, KJV)

That is violence, an attempt at rape.

About the word "brethren" in v7, the Strong's Dictionary on the Hebrew word reads: "A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)):—another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other."

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

It is beneficial to use the entire context instead of reading your own bigotry into the scriptures.

Here's more of my "bigotry" towards these three men.
I wonder how many others they shared AIDS with?

"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: (Gen 19:4, KJV)

This was not spoken of only the sinful males, but all the people, male & female, young and old from every part of the city.

Yup, many of them are like Alfred Kinsey. They swing both ways.
Genesis 19 proves that they are predators of children.... Young and old.

"And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door." (Gen 19:9, KJV)

That is violence, an attempt at rape.

That's what I said earlier. When they get into a group, they developed a gang mentality and are very violent people in general. My Dad taught me this when I was young, to avoid them and how to deal with them if they attempt to molest me.

About the word "brethren" in v7, the Strong's Dictionary on the Hebrew word reads: "A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)):—another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other."

Proves that Lot was worldly minded and not walking with the Lord. They were not his spiritual brothers, they were reprobates. Believers are not to identify with reprobates of any kind.

 

[Drich]

I’m not going to do your work for you, but for others who may question the authority of the OED, I’ll give the following.

lol... No on else cares what we are discussing here. stop preaching to your invisible fan base and speak to me.

The Bible usage of “fornicator” and “fornication” when the genders are indicated, is always opposite sex.

That's not true.. I'll demonstrate this, keep reading.

In 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 the fornicators are distinguished from the sodomites (arsenokoites).

1 cor 6 is the first time this word is EVER used. Paul adapted or coined a phrase to specifically identify gay people. Prior to this all sex fell under just two categories. It was either considered sex outside of a sanctified marriage/Fornication. or it was adultery. The primary difference between the two was the element of betrayal an adultery added to the sin.

Meaning there was no one word for sexual sin appropriate to use in a holy text. So sins like homosexuality, incest, prostitution where technically all 'fornication.' if and when the bible wanted to speak of these individual perversions the sin was clinically described. "Man lying down with man as he would a woman." Of lying with your father's wife. etc..

So to pair fornication with arsenokoites was just a point of clarity for those who may have never heard paul's phrase before..

Almost all English dictionaries define the “fornication” in reference to marriage, which in the Bible is male with female; unless one wishes to go modern and think in terms to include gay marriage.

If this where remotely true you would not have dig around to finally find a word smyth definition (Word smyth is a child's learning dictionary) you would have used the cambridge, Merriam Websters, The Oxford learners, dictionary.com? Why Because ALL of these dictionaries define fornication as:
fornication
/ˌfôrnəˈkāSHən/
Fornication is consensual sexual intercourse between two individuals who are not married to each other.

I’ll stay with the older definition and the biblical usage.

As you are about to find out, you are infact not sticking with the biblical definition.

I did pay $100 to have access to the Oxford English Dictionary, and the reason I did so was because it gives the meaning of words in their historical context, so I could see what the KJV words meant in 1611/1769.

you mean you are hiding behind a pay wall and confident I will not call your bluff. Again sport, if your definition in the OED is what you say it is then why can't you find one other major dictionary that supports your claim? Why must you rely on a child's learners dictionary as your only supporting reference? And if this child's learners dictionary was the only accurate definition, then why didn't the Oxford Learners dictionary (Same people who published the OED) not use this same definition?

For those who do not wish to take the time and energy to go to a library to read the OED, the following definitions can be found online.

That's all I've been asking from you. For you to provide Some sort of verifiable citation that support your assertion. as of yet you have failed to do this. We both know the Eastons' is not going to help you here.

Easton’s Bible Dictionary
“An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a great social wrong, as well as a great sin.
Easton's Bible Dictionary : Matthew G. Easton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Why did you look up adulterer in the eastons dictionary and not fornication? are we not discussing the word fornication? Maybe this was an 'honest' mistake. so allow me to look up this word for you in the eastons:

Wait a tick.. I see why you decided to misrepresented your source material and changed the word to adulterer. from the eastons:
Fornication:

in every form of it was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law ( Leviticus 21:9 ; 19:29 ; Deuteronomy 22:20 Deuteronomy 22:21 Deuteronomy 22:23-29 ; 23:18 ; Exodus 22:16 ). (See ADULTERY .)ETI Fornication.2

Deut 23:18 talks about male and female prostitutes Then In the strongs I on a hunch looked up the word prostitute guess what I found? The word for Prostitute in Deu 23:18 is the word:

זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw';

Who's Strong's defination is:

1. to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot
   
   1. (Qal)
      
      1. to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication
      2. to commit adultery
      3. to be a cult prostitute
      4. to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)
   2. (Pual) to play the harlot
   3. (Hiphil)
      
      1. to cause to commit adultery
      2. to force into prostitution
      3. to commit fornication

H2181 - zānâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

H2181 - זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw'; a primitive root [highly fed and therefore wanton]; to commit adultery (usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively, to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of...

www.blueletterbible.org

FYI Harlot = Prostitute.. So stay with me here, we are about to throw your whole argument in the garbage. You said:

The Bible usage of “fornicator” and “fornication” when the genders are indicated, is always opposite sex.

Well, in deut 23: 18 God commanded "You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both. "

Again:

The hebrew word for prostitute is
זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw';

While it can be translated prostitute the S-A-M-E Word is used for FORNICATOR. So wait... didn't you say when ever gender is mention the fornicating couple is always of the opposite sex?

But Here in deut 23:18 MALE Prostitutes are specifically being identified. These male prostitutes did not exclusively service women, (Not saying they couldn't) But as a rule women did not have independent wealth outside of the House hold her husband or Father provided for. (No money to spend on a prostitute) Then the society itself would not allow a promiscuous/adulterous woman to sleep around on her husband. (A promiscuous woman was to be stoned to death.)
This only leaves one gender visiting male FORNICATORS/Prostitutes.. Meaning the word Zanah/FORNICATOR was used to describe Gay men having gay sex. This one verse undermines everything you claimed.

If you did stay with the biblical meaning you would be bound to use the word fornication and adultery exclusively to represent all sexual sin. IDK if you noticed or not, but there are no other words in the OT or NT that describe individual sexual perversions. There was no word for Beastuality, Incest, Homosexuality, prostitution etc etc.. EVERYTHING Fell under fornication, or Adultry.

 

[Brasspen]

I don't have to ask God if He says marriage is nothing. Because as I pointed out Jesus Marriage is a contract between the married couple and God that allows them to have sex.



If you feel stupid now, but would like not to, then speak where only the bible speaks. and Remain silent where the bible is silent when claiming to represent God and or His word. You feel stupid because you made a claim about God that the bible specifically Jesus contradicts.


I don't need to hear God's voice when I can read His word.

The Lord Repuke You.
I forgive you.