So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?
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If you study Rom 1:26-27, you see nothing about two males in a loving romantic relationship! But you can see a reflection of the debauchery seen in the LGBTQ Pride Parades, etc.
“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Rom 1:26-27, RSV)
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary – 1871 AD
“But observe how vice is here seen consuming and exhausting itself. When the passions, scourged by violent and continued indulgence in natural vices, became impotent to yield the craved enjoyment, resort was had to artificial stimulants by the practice of unnatural and monstrous vices.” When God gave them up, the vices grew worse, progressing in wickedness.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Fully Revised, Vol. 4, 1988, Eerdmans
"...how did Paul understand the homosexual behavior he condemned? Evidently he understood it as freely chosen (cf. 'exchanged,' 'gave up') by people for whom heterosexual relations were 'natural,' and as chosen (by heterosexual people) because of their insatiable lust ('consumed with passion')." page 437
From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse
(Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152)
"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."
http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse
As with the commentary above, this historical record shows the progression in sinfulness.
KJV- “burned”, RSV – “consumed” The Greek ἐκκαίω ekkaio used just this one time in the NT
KJV- “lust”, RSV – “passion” The Greek ὄρεξις orexis used just this one time in the NT
Notice that in v26 there is absolutely NOTHING about women having sexual relations with other women! Of course, if you don’t read it into this verse, there is not one single verse in all of the Bible condemning lesbianism.
There is the notorious Nero living in Paul's day, to be remembered in his wickedness:
“XXVII. Little by little, however, as his vices grew stronger, he dropped jesting and secrecy and with no attempt at disguise openly broke out into worse crime. He prolonged his revels from midday to midnight, often livening himself by a warm plunge, or, if it were summer, into water cooled with snow. Sometimes too he closed the inlets and banqueted in public in the great tank, in the Campus Martius, or in the Circus Maximus, waited on by harlots and dancing girls from all over the city. Whenever he drifted down the Tiber to Ostia, or sailed about the Gulf of Baiae, booths were set up at intervals along the banks and shores, fitted out for debauchery, while bartering matrons played the part of innkeepers and from every hand solicited him to come ashore. He also levied dinners on his friends, one of whom spent four million sesterces for a banquet at which turbans were distributed, and another a considerably larger sum for a rose dinner.
XXVIII. Besides abusing freeborn boys and seducing married women, he debauched the vestal virgin Rubria. The freedwoman Acte he all but made his lawful wife, after bribing some ex-consuls to perjure themselves by swearing that she was of royal birth. He castrated the boy Sporus and actually tried to make a woman of him; and he married him with all the usual ceremonies, including a dowry and a bridal veil, took him to his house attended by a great throng, and treated him as his wife. And the witty jest that someone made is still current, that it would have been well for the world if Nero's father Domitius had had that kind of wife. This Sporus, decked out with the finery of the empresses and riding in a litter, he took with him to the assizes and marts of Greece, and later at Rome through the Street of the Images, fondly kissing him from time to time. That he even desired illicit relations with his own mother, and was kept from it by her enemiess who feared that such a relationship might give the reckless and insolent woman too great infiuence, was notorious, especially after he added to his concubines a courtesan who was said to look very like Agripinina. Even before that, so they say, whenever he rode in a litter with his mother, he had incestuous relations with her, which were betrayed by the stains on his clothing.
XXIX. He so prostituted his own chastity that after defiling almost every part of his body, he at last devised a kind of game, in which, covered with the skin of some wild animal, he was let loose from a cage and attacked the private parts of men and women, who were bound to stakes, and when he had sated his mad lust, was dispatched by his freed man Doryphorus; for he was even married to this man in the same way that he himself had married Sporus, going so far as to imitate the cries and lamentations of a maiden being deflowered. I have heard from some men that it was his unshaken conviction that no man was chaste or pure in any partof his body, but that most of them concealed their vices and cleverly drew a veil over them; and that therefore he pardoned all other faults in those who confessed to him their lewdness.”
Internet History Sourcebooks Project
“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Rom 1:26-27, RSV)
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary – 1871 AD
“But observe how vice is here seen consuming and exhausting itself. When the passions, scourged by violent and continued indulgence in natural vices, became impotent to yield the craved enjoyment, resort was had to artificial stimulants by the practice of unnatural and monstrous vices.” When God gave them up, the vices grew worse, progressing in wickedness.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Fully Revised, Vol. 4, 1988, Eerdmans
"...how did Paul understand the homosexual behavior he condemned? Evidently he understood it as freely chosen (cf. 'exchanged,' 'gave up') by people for whom heterosexual relations were 'natural,' and as chosen (by heterosexual people) because of their insatiable lust ('consumed with passion')." page 437
From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse
(Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152)
"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."
http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse
As with the commentary above, this historical record shows the progression in sinfulness.
KJV- “burned”, RSV – “consumed” The Greek ἐκκαίω ekkaio used just this one time in the NT
KJV- “lust”, RSV – “passion” The Greek ὄρεξις orexis used just this one time in the NT
Notice that in v26 there is absolutely NOTHING about women having sexual relations with other women! Of course, if you don’t read it into this verse, there is not one single verse in all of the Bible condemning lesbianism.
There is the notorious Nero living in Paul's day, to be remembered in his wickedness:
“XXVII. Little by little, however, as his vices grew stronger, he dropped jesting and secrecy and with no attempt at disguise openly broke out into worse crime. He prolonged his revels from midday to midnight, often livening himself by a warm plunge, or, if it were summer, into water cooled with snow. Sometimes too he closed the inlets and banqueted in public in the great tank, in the Campus Martius, or in the Circus Maximus, waited on by harlots and dancing girls from all over the city. Whenever he drifted down the Tiber to Ostia, or sailed about the Gulf of Baiae, booths were set up at intervals along the banks and shores, fitted out for debauchery, while bartering matrons played the part of innkeepers and from every hand solicited him to come ashore. He also levied dinners on his friends, one of whom spent four million sesterces for a banquet at which turbans were distributed, and another a considerably larger sum for a rose dinner.
XXVIII. Besides abusing freeborn boys and seducing married women, he debauched the vestal virgin Rubria. The freedwoman Acte he all but made his lawful wife, after bribing some ex-consuls to perjure themselves by swearing that she was of royal birth. He castrated the boy Sporus and actually tried to make a woman of him; and he married him with all the usual ceremonies, including a dowry and a bridal veil, took him to his house attended by a great throng, and treated him as his wife. And the witty jest that someone made is still current, that it would have been well for the world if Nero's father Domitius had had that kind of wife. This Sporus, decked out with the finery of the empresses and riding in a litter, he took with him to the assizes and marts of Greece, and later at Rome through the Street of the Images, fondly kissing him from time to time. That he even desired illicit relations with his own mother, and was kept from it by her enemiess who feared that such a relationship might give the reckless and insolent woman too great infiuence, was notorious, especially after he added to his concubines a courtesan who was said to look very like Agripinina. Even before that, so they say, whenever he rode in a litter with his mother, he had incestuous relations with her, which were betrayed by the stains on his clothing.
XXIX. He so prostituted his own chastity that after defiling almost every part of his body, he at last devised a kind of game, in which, covered with the skin of some wild animal, he was let loose from a cage and attacked the private parts of men and women, who were bound to stakes, and when he had sated his mad lust, was dispatched by his freed man Doryphorus; for he was even married to this man in the same way that he himself had married Sporus, going so far as to imitate the cries and lamentations of a maiden being deflowered. I have heard from some men that it was his unshaken conviction that no man was chaste or pure in any partof his body, but that most of them concealed their vices and cleverly drew a veil over them; and that therefore he pardoned all other faults in those who confessed to him their lewdness.”
Internet History Sourcebooks Project
Kinda nuts isn't it?
The whole sin is such an identity changer that they cannot have any identity in Christ.
A Christian has foremost an identity in Christ. Every other identity comes in as a distant second.
When preachers stop claiming that it is a matter of choice that a small minority of men are solely attracted to other men instead of women, when preachers stop making that claim that common sense and the research studies show it is NOT a choice, then maybe those preachers can begin having some credibility! Did these hateful preachers choose their sexual orientation?
In addition, when preachers stop claiming it is not a sin for a man to be homosexual, but it is a sin to engage in homosexual behavior, when these preachers stop making that ridiculous claim that is refuted by scripture, then maybe they can gain more credibility.
To be solely attracted to and desire other men is sin if the act itself is sin:
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matt 5:27-28, KJV)
Saying practicing homosexuality is sin, but being homosexual is not sin, that directly contradicts the words of Jesus. Also, to insist that a homosexual male must abstain from any homosexual conduct can only be if that homosexual male has the GIFT of sexual abstinence. And, the words of Paul were meant for that temporary period of persecution, 7:26, NOT a lifetime of solitude.
For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (1Cor 7:7-9, KJV)
Unless the Christian wishes to claim that the Bible supports gay marriage, another option must be available, and I quote one possibility or approach.
“Here again I saw futility under the sun: someone without a friend, without son or brother, toiling endlessly yet never satisfied with his wealth—‘For whom’, he asks, ‘am I toiling and denying myself the good things of life?’ This too is futile, a worthless task. Two are better than one, for their partnership yields this advantage: if one falls, the other can help his companion up again; but woe betide the solitary person who when down has no partner to help him up. And if two lie side by side they keep each other warm; but how can one keep warm by himself? If anyone is alone, an assailant may overpower him, but two can resist; and a cord of three strands is not quickly snapped.” (Eccl 4:7-12, REB) The genders here are all male
“And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help suitable for him.” (Gen 2:18, KJV) For the male of homosexual orientation, a woman is NOT “suitable” for him.
Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? Yes
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...6/homophobic-men-are-aroused-by-gay-male-porn
Here is a list of some homophobic well-known preachers. When Christians are so very anti-gay, it makes you wonder.
George Rekers
George Rekers co-founded the Family Research Council, a powerful anti-LGBTQ lobbying organization. He was considered one of America's most influential opponents of gay rights. In 2010, he was photographed arriving in Miami with a male escort hired from RentBoy.com. Rekers claimed the man was hired only to carry luggage, but the escort's profile explicitly advertised sexual services.
Ted Haggard
Ted Haggard was a prominent evangelical leader who counseled President George W. Bush and led a congregation of 30,000. He actively campaigned against same-sex marriage in Colorado. In 2006, a male sex worker revealed they had a three-year sexual relationship, with Haggard paying for sex and using methamphetamine. Haggard initially denied the allegations but later admitted to "sexual immorality."
Eddie Long
Bishop Eddie Long led the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Georgia and was a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, even leading a 5,000-person march against gay marriage in 2004. In 2010, four young men sued him, alleging he used his pastoral influence to coerce them into sexual relationships. The cases were settled out of court in 2011. Long denied the accusations but died in 2017.
Ernest Angley
Ernest Angley was a flamboyant televangelist who repeatedly denounced homosexuality as a grave sin. A former male employee sued him for alleged sexual abuse, and a recording surfaced of Angley confessing to homosexual encounters that contradicted his public preaching.
Donnie Davies
Donnie Davies was a pastor who gained notoriety for his "Homosexuality and the Bible" sermons. He later came out as gay in 2010, acknowledging his own same-sex attractions while he had been preaching against homosexuality. He stated he could no longer live a double life.
Jeffrey Burrill
Jeffrey Burrill served as general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, making him the highest-ranking Catholic priest in the United States who was not a bishop. He implemented homophobic policies, including opposing an LGBTQ-focused suicide hotline and promoting conversion therapy. In 2021, it was revealed he had been using Grindr regularly for years and frequented gay bars and bathhouses.
Paul Crouch
Founder/chairman of Trinity Broadcasting Network (anti-gay). Accused of threatening to fire male employee Enock Lonnie Ford if he didn't have an affair; settled out of court for ~$475,000
Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? - PubMed
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Here is a list of some homophobic well-known preachers. When Christians are so very anti-gay, it makes you wonder.
George Rekers
George Rekers co-founded the Family Research Council, a powerful anti-LGBTQ lobbying organization. He was considered one of America's most influential opponents of gay rights. In 2010, he was photographed arriving in Miami with a male escort hired from RentBoy.com. Rekers claimed the man was hired only to carry luggage, but the escort's profile explicitly advertised sexual services.
Ted Haggard
Ted Haggard was a prominent evangelical leader who counseled President George W. Bush and led a congregation of 30,000. He actively campaigned against same-sex marriage in Colorado. In 2006, a male sex worker revealed they had a three-year sexual relationship, with Haggard paying for sex and using methamphetamine. Haggard initially denied the allegations but later admitted to "sexual immorality."
Eddie Long
Bishop Eddie Long led the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Georgia and was a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, even leading a 5,000-person march against gay marriage in 2004. In 2010, four young men sued him, alleging he used his pastoral influence to coerce them into sexual relationships. The cases were settled out of court in 2011. Long denied the accusations but died in 2017.
Ernest Angley
Ernest Angley was a flamboyant televangelist who repeatedly denounced homosexuality as a grave sin. A former male employee sued him for alleged sexual abuse, and a recording surfaced of Angley confessing to homosexual encounters that contradicted his public preaching.
Donnie Davies
Donnie Davies was a pastor who gained notoriety for his "Homosexuality and the Bible" sermons. He later came out as gay in 2010, acknowledging his own same-sex attractions while he had been preaching against homosexuality. He stated he could no longer live a double life.
Jeffrey Burrill
Jeffrey Burrill served as general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, making him the highest-ranking Catholic priest in the United States who was not a bishop. He implemented homophobic policies, including opposing an LGBTQ-focused suicide hotline and promoting conversion therapy. In 2021, it was revealed he had been using Grindr regularly for years and frequented gay bars and bathhouses.
Paul Crouch
Founder/chairman of Trinity Broadcasting Network (anti-gay). Accused of threatening to fire male employee Enock Lonnie Ford if he didn't have an affair; settled out of court for ~$475,000
Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? Yes
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...6/homophobic-men-are-aroused-by-gay-male-pornIs homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? - PubMed
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of...
Here is a list of some homophobic well-known preachers. When Christians are so very anti-gay, it makes you wonder.
George Rekers
George Rekers co-founded the Family Research Council, a powerful anti-LGBTQ lobbying organization. He was considered one of America's most influential opponents of gay rights. In 2010, he was photographed arriving in Miami with a male escort hired from RentBoy.com. Rekers claimed the man was hired only to carry luggage, but the escort's profile explicitly advertised sexual services.
Never heard of him.
No character here. Don't know much about him. But this is why I don't watch or support TV evangelists. Most, if not all, are frauds. Run huge churches with no oversight.
Reading up on this guy, he had absolutely no character. Lost his job at Ford after he submitted expense reports that included personal telephone calls. Looks like he was in it for the money, he was certainly no man of God. He had all kinds of personal problems going on.
Never watched him but a few times and definitely got the homosexual vibe.
Donnie Davies is a fictional satirical character, not a real pastor. He is best known as the creation of an internet viral video, where he was portrayed as a "reformed homosexual" and youth pastor singing the anti-homosexuality song "The Bible Says". [1]
Expected in Catholic churches where priests are forbidden to marry, of course homosexuals would hide there. No surprise there. Lots of unsupervised time with boys. We all know how that turned out.
Loading…
www3.trincoll.edu
... the most serious problem was the accuser, Enoch Lonnie Ford, a 41-year-old former TBN employee with a history of drug use and repeated blackmail attempts who had also served jail time for a sex offense. Not exactly Mr. Credibility.
So the post proved that people are hypocritical about sin. They cover it up and they've been doing that since Adam and Eve. It doesn't matter if the Pope does it or what famous "preacher" does it. The Bible says it's sin.
They weren't homophobic...Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? Yes
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...6/homophobic-men-are-aroused-by-gay-male-pornIs homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? - PubMed
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of...
Here is a list of some homophobic well-known preachers. When Christians are so very anti-gay, it makes you wonder.
George Rekers
George Rekers co-founded the Family Research Council, a powerful anti-LGBTQ lobbying organization. He was considered one of America's most influential opponents of gay rights. In 2010, he was photographed arriving in Miami with a male escort hired from RentBoy.com. Rekers claimed the man was hired only to carry luggage, but the escort's profile explicitly advertised sexual services.
Ted Haggard
Ted Haggard was a prominent evangelical leader who counseled President George W. Bush and led a congregation of 30,000. He actively campaigned against same-sex marriage in Colorado. In 2006, a male sex worker revealed they had a three-year sexual relationship, with Haggard paying for sex and using methamphetamine. Haggard initially denied the allegations but later admitted to "sexual immorality."
Eddie Long
Bishop Eddie Long led the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Georgia and was a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, even leading a 5,000-person march against gay marriage in 2004. In 2010, four young men sued him, alleging he used his pastoral influence to coerce them into sexual relationships. The cases were settled out of court in 2011. Long denied the accusations but died in 2017.
Ernest Angley
Ernest Angley was a flamboyant televangelist who repeatedly denounced homosexuality as a grave sin. A former male employee sued him for alleged sexual abuse, and a recording surfaced of Angley confessing to homosexual encounters that contradicted his public preaching.
Donnie Davies
Donnie Davies was a pastor who gained notoriety for his "Homosexuality and the Bible" sermons. He later came out as gay in 2010, acknowledging his own same-sex attractions while he had been preaching against homosexuality. He stated he could no longer live a double life.
Jeffrey Burrill
Jeffrey Burrill served as general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, making him the highest-ranking Catholic priest in the United States who was not a bishop. He implemented homophobic policies, including opposing an LGBTQ-focused suicide hotline and promoting conversion therapy. In 2021, it was revealed he had been using Grindr regularly for years and frequented gay bars and bathhouses.
Paul Crouch
Founder/chairman of Trinity Broadcasting Network (anti-gay). Accused of threatening to fire male employee Enock Lonnie Ford if he didn't have an affair; settled out of court for ~$475,000
They were more like Judas than anything...
Sure, they would preach against homosexuality....just like Judas preached about theft. Didnt stop him now did it?
Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? Yes
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...6/homophobic-men-are-aroused-by-gay-male-pornIs homophobia associated with homosexual arousal? - PubMed
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of...
Here is a list of some homophobic well-known preachers. When Christians are so very anti-gay, it makes you wonder.
George Rekers
George Rekers co-founded the Family Research Council, a powerful anti-LGBTQ lobbying organization. He was considered one of America's most influential opponents of gay rights. In 2010, he was photographed arriving in Miami with a male escort hired from RentBoy.com. Rekers claimed the man was hired only to carry luggage, but the escort's profile explicitly advertised sexual services.
Ted Haggard
Ted Haggard was a prominent evangelical leader who counseled President George W. Bush and led a congregation of 30,000. He actively campaigned against same-sex marriage in Colorado. In 2006, a male sex worker revealed they had a three-year sexual relationship, with Haggard paying for sex and using methamphetamine. Haggard initially denied the allegations but later admitted to "sexual immorality."
Eddie Long
Bishop Eddie Long led the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Georgia and was a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, even leading a 5,000-person march against gay marriage in 2004. In 2010, four young men sued him, alleging he used his pastoral influence to coerce them into sexual relationships. The cases were settled out of court in 2011. Long denied the accusations but died in 2017.
Ernest Angley
Ernest Angley was a flamboyant televangelist who repeatedly denounced homosexuality as a grave sin. A former male employee sued him for alleged sexual abuse, and a recording surfaced of Angley confessing to homosexual encounters that contradicted his public preaching.
Donnie Davies
Donnie Davies was a pastor who gained notoriety for his "Homosexuality and the Bible" sermons. He later came out as gay in 2010, acknowledging his own same-sex attractions while he had been preaching against homosexuality. He stated he could no longer live a double life.
Jeffrey Burrill
Jeffrey Burrill served as general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, making him the highest-ranking Catholic priest in the United States who was not a bishop. He implemented homophobic policies, including opposing an LGBTQ-focused suicide hotline and promoting conversion therapy. In 2021, it was revealed he had been using Grindr regularly for years and frequented gay bars and bathhouses.
Paul Crouch
Founder/chairman of Trinity Broadcasting Network (anti-gay). Accused of threatening to fire male employee Enock Lonnie Ford if he didn't have an affair; settled out of court for ~$475,000
I didn't read about everyone of the men in this post. But, I just want to say. When people judge other people like what I read here, they end up doing it themself. They judge someone, and then turn around and do it. "...What measure you meet with, will be measured back to you..." "...thou that doest the same things..."
P
passion84god
Guest
Are gays/lesbians non-elects? I would need to know what you mean by "non-elects" before attempting to answer that question.
Eh, sexual relationships romantic and loving? Men likewise gave up natural relations
with women and were consumed with passion for one another. Looks more lust driven.
In the 1644 Baptist Confession, the non-elect would be those not chosen but left in their sin.
In the 1646 Presbyterian Confession the non-elect would be foreordained to everlasting death.
First London Confession of Faith [Baptist] (1644) Referred to as single predestination.
“God had in Christ before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His will, foreordained some men to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise and glory of His grace, leaving the rest in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His justice.”
Westminster Confession of Faith [Presbyterian] (1646) Referred to as double predestination
“3.3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
Some refer to the non-elect as reprobates, the persons rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation. Random-House Unabridged English Dictionary
Below are some verses believed to directly refer to the reprobates, the non-elect. Now if just the mention of “predestination” brings hot debate, the topic of the reprobates even more so.
“Joshua made war a long time with all those kings. There was not a town that made peace with the Israelites except the Hivites, the inhabitants of Gibeon; all were taken in battle. For it was the LORD’s doing to harden their hearts so that they would come against Israel in battle, in order that they might be utterly destroyed and might receive no mercy but be exterminated, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.” (Jos 11:18-20 NRSVue)
The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. (Pro 16:4 NRSVue)
For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I may show my power in you and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses. (Rom 9:17-18 NRSVue)
This honor, then, is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the very head of the corner,” and “A stone that makes them stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. (1Pe 2:7-8 NRSVue)
These people, however, are like irrational animals, mere creatures of instinct, born to be caught and killed. They slander what they do not understand, and as those creatures are destroyed, they also will be destroyed, suffering the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. (2Pe 2:12-13 NRSVue)
I do not know if posting publicly available information is judging or not. I DID DO some judging after the Ted Haggard affair. Since he was a former president of the National Association of Evangelicals, I went to the NAE web site and looked at the denominations in that association. After noting some of those groups, I tried to avoid referring to myself as an "evangelical" as I had in previous years began to avoid the term "fundamentalist". This is another example of the danger of labels, what do others understand by the words or labels you use? Notice how the news media use the labels "fundamentalist" and "evangelical".
Love is irrelevant. It's really simple. God says all sex outside of a sanctified (God Blessed Marriage) is a sin. No where in scripture does God sanctify Gay marriage. This makes ALL GAY SEX A SIN. Even the thought of it per what Jesus has to say about lust in your heart in mat 5. If you want to have a further discussion I ask you start a new thread. I will not address any counter points here.
It's really simple. God says all sex outside of a sanctified (God Blessed Marriage) is a sin. No where in scripture does God sanctify Gay marriage. This makes ALL GAY SEX A SIN. Even the thought of it per what Jesus has to say about lust in your heart in mat 5. If you want to have a further discussion I ask you start a new thread. I will not address any counter points here.
I'll not make a counter point, but ask two questions:
1. Give the book, chapter and verse that states all sex outside of marriage is sin. Fornication is sin, which involves M-F, not M-M.
2. Where in any of my posts have I supported or defended such a thing as Gay marriage?
Well, actually. There's no earthly reasons as to why this is wrong. Like scientific. If anything, and I have always said it. The world is promoting it...I mean, there's no natural reasons. So, a woman can have man parts. Again this is like. Very few people. But it still happens. So...What then? A animal can be asexual. Be careful quoting nature (not that anyone did just saying). Because the powers that be (spiritual) have marred it in glossed over sin.
Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.