What exactly is our soul?

[GWH]

I can agree with that. He is the source and sustainer of all things.

Yes, which is why I say that God’s infinite power implies omnipresence (per Psa. 139:7-8). God transcends spatial existence while being immanent in all points of space. (Other scriptural support for this view includes 1Kings 8:27, Isa. 66:1, Jer. 23:33, Acts 17:27-28 and Eph. 4:6.)

God’s superiority over His creation must be viewed as a matter of degree or quantitatively in order to preserve the continuity between God and humanity that would be requisite for communication (like the need for a common language and culture cited in Part I).

However, the Bible teaches that God also differs from creatures qualitatively, so that attaining equality with Deity is impossible (Isa. 55:9, Eph. 3:19). We can be like God (Gen. 3:3), and we can become one with the Son of God (John 17:21-23), but we cannot become God (cf. Humanism).

According to the Bible, God created everything else that exists (Gen. 1:1, Jer. 10:16, John 1:1-3), including the ability by volitional beings (souls) to choose to rebel against His Lordship (Gen. 2:16, Deut. 30:19). Our finite minds cannot comprehend how God does this (Isa. 40:28). However, neither are we able to understand why the universe exists without God (John 3:8).

Theistic and atheistic cosmologies are both mind-boggling! Just as atheists believe that somehow the world always existed and somewhat intelligent beings evolved, so theists believe that for some reason the eternal Intelligence or Spirit of God created and pervades the physical universe, including the brains of those who freely will to spit in His face (Rom. 5:6-8, Matt. 27:30)! (What God was doing before the creation of time/space is as inconceivable as nothing/atheism.)

 

[Genez]

Well, my main criticism was that he translated from both the original languages and from the King James language,
which seemed to bog at times.

My memory says that he graduated from DTS, and that Berachah was an independent Bible church,
but I cannot remember how strongly he taught dispensationalism.

Oh God..... You have completely missed the life of his purpose.

He was not a DTS puppet.
He went there to study Hebrew and Greek above all else.
He was also at times openly critical of DTS.

Some of us may think like clones. But...
One does not think dispensationally simply because one is programmed to do so.
I grew up a Jew. Because of that.
I instinctively understood why some will understand dispensationalism.

You are a programmed robot?

 

[rewriter]

But that is not what we are dealing with.
God chose Hebrew and Greek for good reason.

For example.... Alexander the Great conquered the world in a relatively short time.
Why? He devised the exactness of the Koine Greek.
It was designed to be exacting and clear as to have no commands or orders misunderstood.

For Alexander was dealing with an army that spoke a variety of dialects and languages.
He created one that was designed to be exacting and free of misinterpretation.
Later on... that koine became the Greek of most of the New Testament, but with a few exceptions.

You claim that God chose Hebrew and Koine Greek for precision. Is that why Aramaic is also used for scripture? And it that why there are still words in both Hebrew and Greek that the experts guess at the meaning, because they are so precise?

The "precise" Greek is so precise that a single verse can have as many as five different translations, with different meanings. Koine Greek might be more precise than some other languages, but more likely was used just because it was the common language of the day, but in writing it relied on a reader who knew where to place the emphasis as the necessary punctuation was lacking.

 

[Genez]

You claim that God chose Hebrew and Koine Greek for precision. Is that why Aramaic is also used for scripture? And it that why there are still words in both Hebrew and Greek that the experts guess at the meaning, because they are so precise?

The "precise" Greek is so precise that a single verse can have as many as five different translations, with different meanings. Koine Greek might be more precise than some other languages, but more likely was used just because it was the common language of the day, but in writing it relied on a reader who knew where to place the emphasis as the necessary punctuation was lacking.

That was the problem Adam and the woman had.

"Thou shall not eat" could have more than one translation....

 

[GWH]

Oh God..... You have completely missed the life of his purpose.

He was not a DTS puppet.
He went there to study Hebrew and Greek above all else.
He was also at times openly critical of DTS.

Some of us may think like clones. But...
One does not think dispensationally simply because one is programmed to do so.
I grew up a Jew. Because of that.
I instinctively understood why some will understand dispensationalism.

You are a programmed robot?

Yes, I have no memory of him criticizing DTS or teaching dispensationalism.
Not sure why you got so emotionally defensive.
A Jewish instinct?

 

[Gideon300]

Disagree. Man is a living soul who expresses himself through his body and is given a spirit at regeneration. 1 Thess.5:23

The OT refers to the spirit of man 387 times. Does that not tell you anything? Do you know what regeneration means? Something must exist before it can be regenerated.

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11. Do you seriously believe that only the born again know their own thoughts?

 

[Gideon300]

The literal Hebrew mentions SOUL

7 And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.

זוַיִּ֩יצֶר֩ יְהֹוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה

God breathed the breath of life into man. Yes, man is a being with a soul and that soul has life in itself. It is the natural life that enabled Adam to function. However, it was not God's intent for Adam to live from his soul indefinitely. The tree of Life was to be Adam's life. But Adam chose the fruit tree of the tree of knowledge of good and evil instead. The rest is history.

That man is spirit, soul and body is clear from God's word. It is the spirit of man that was in the image of God - God is Spirit - and that is the part of man's being that died. Death is not the end of existence. Fundamentally, it is separation from God. It is also the spirit of man that is born again.

​

 

[sawdust]

The OT refers to the spirit of man 387 times. Does that not tell you anything? Do you know what regeneration means? Something must exist before it can be regenerated.

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11. Do you seriously believe that only the born again know their own thoughts?

So? I never said man doesn't have a spirit, I said he is not a spirit. If man was a spirit he would be one of the beings we call angels/demons for they are spirits, we are souls.

Regeneration is the term we use to describe the new birth as shown in Jn.3. That scripture says we must be born from above, it does not say we must be revived from above. Just as you did not exist in this world before you were born, so too you had no spirit before it was generated by God. I suggest you go by what scripture says and not man's terminology.

Do you seriously want to build a doctrine on the basis of one verse when all throughout scripture, in multiple places, we are called souls? Maybe you should consider how many people are in this world, broken and out of touch even with themselves, to understand that scripture you quote a whole lot better.

 

[Gideon300]

So? I never said man doesn't have a spirit, I said he is not a spirit. If man was a spirit he would be one of the beings we call angels/demons for they are spirits, we are souls.

Regeneration is the term we use to describe the new birth as shown in Jn.3. That scripture says we must be born from above, it does not say we must be revived from above. Just as you did not exist in this world before you were born, so too you had no spirit before it was generated by God. I suggest you go by what scripture says and not man's terminology.

Do you seriously want to build a doctrine on the basis of one verse when all throughout scripture, in multiple places, we are called souls? Maybe you should consider how many people are in this world, broken and out of touch even with themselves, to understand that scripture you quote a whole lot better.

You just contradicted yourself. Either man is born with a spirit or he is not. Make up your mind. Tell me exactly what you believe and I might be able to respond to you.

You say we do not have a spirit until we are regenerated. Check out the dictionary definition of that word.

 

[sawdust]

You just contradicted yourself. Either man is born with a spirit or he is not. Make up your mind. Tell me exactly what you believe and I might be able to respond to you.

You say we do not have a spirit until we are regenerated. Check out the dictionary definition of that word.

I said man is given a spirit when he is born again, I never said he is born with one. So believers have a human spirit, unbelievers do not.

How hard was it to understand within the context of what I had said previously?

Check out what the scripture actually says and stop imposing man's terminology onto it. We are BORN again, not revived. First birth physical, second birth spiritual. You weren't revived at you first birth.

 

[Gideon300]

I said man is given a spirit when he is born again, I never said he is born with one. So believers have a human spirit, unbelievers do not.

How hard was it to understand within the context of what I had said previously?

Check out what the scripture actually says and stop imposing man's terminology onto it. We are BORN again, not revived. First birth physical, second birth spiritual. You weren't revived at you first birth.

Unbelievers do not have a human spirit? 387 mentions just in the OT? Are you saying that everyone in the OT was born again?

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

That truth does not distinguish between the saved and the unsaved.

Every single human being is created in the image of God and has a spirit. The spirit is the part of man that makes him in God's image.

 

[Genez]

Yes, I have no memory of him criticizing DTS or teaching dispensationalism.
Not sure why you got so emotionally defensive.
A Jewish instinct?

OK... stay where you are.

 

[sawdust]

Unbelievers do not have a human spirit? 387 mentions just in the OT? Are you saying that everyone in the OT was born again?

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

That truth does not distinguish between the saved and the unsaved.

Every single human being is created in the image of God and has a spirit. The spirit is the part of man that makes him in God's image.

Disagree

 

[Genez]

Unbelievers do not have a human spirit? 387 mentions just in the OT? Are you saying that everyone in the OT was born again?

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

"His own spirit." Not God's spirit. That spirit is to know men with, not God. Read it again.

 

[Lovette]

You claim that God chose Hebrew and Koine Greek for precision. Is that why Aramaic is also used for scripture? And it that why there are still words in both Hebrew and Greek that the experts guess at the meaning, because they are so precise?

The "precise" Greek is so precise that a single verse can have as many as five different translations, with different meanings. Koine Greek might be more precise than some other languages, but more likely was used just because it was the common language of the day, but in writing it relied on a reader who knew where to place the emphasis as the necessary punctuation was lacking.

Each person's takeaway from a given section of the Scripture matters far more than what that section of the Scripture literally states, often times completely opposite conclusions can be drawn. For example, the story of Joseph and Potiphur's wife, kind of a sexually desperate housewife lusting for this handsome young bloke, after being rejected multiple times, framing Joseph for sexual assault. During the time of the #MeToo movement, almost ten years ago, some brought up the false allegation in this story to discredit the victims, others used this as a case study of power abuse, which validated the victims.

 

[GWH]

OK... stay where you are.

That reply does not explain why you became emotionally defensive, but okay.

 

[GWH]

Unbelievers do not have a human spirit? 387 mentions just in the OT? Are you saying that everyone in the OT was born again?

"For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

That truth does not distinguish between the saved and the unsaved.

Every single human being is created in the image of God and has a spirit. The spirit is the part of man that makes him in God's image.

I cannot decide whether you and sawdust disagree or not regarding the meaning of Gen. 2:7,
which clearly indicates that God breathed the spirit/life into the body and the result was a soul: body + spirit = soul.
At least agree regarding that obvious meaning before moving on to other passages, and when you do so, harmonize!

Obviously the HS is not a body, saved souls receive a spiritual/supernatural body in heaven, being in the image of God means being able to fellowship with God--or not, being born again means that a soul is indwelt by the HS, etc. Isn't harmony wonderful?

 

[rewriter]

That was the problem Adam and the woman had.

"Thou shall not eat" could have more than one translation....

Another problem is that there is no evidence that the Hebrew language existed at the time of Adam and Eve. Various related languages are known to have existed before the first evidence for Hebrew, but related is not the same. And then even Hebrew is known to have changed over time, just as other languages do.

 

[DavidLamb]

That was the problem Adam and the woman had.

"Thou shall not eat" could have more than one translation....

Surely, God would have spoken to them in a language that they could understand. We are not told what that language was. There weren't even any Hebrew people when Adam and Eve were here, let alone a Hebrew language. So whether or not the Hebrew for "Thou shalt not eat" could have more than one translation, that would make no difference to Adam and Eve. Surely you are not saying that God gave them a command that was unclear to them in its meaning.

 

[sawdust]

I cannot decide whether you and sawdust disagree or not regarding the meaning of Gen. 2:7,
which clearly indicates that God breathed the spirit/life into the body and the result was a soul: body + spirit = soul.
At least agree regarding that obvious meaning before moving on to other passages, and when you do so, harmonize!

@Gideon300 thinks we are spirits because the word spirit is used over 300 times in the OT. Unfortunately, he has yet to show where any one of those verses calls man a spirit.


I disagree with what you are saying.

God created two souls in Gen.1:27, formed one body in Gen2:7 and breathed into that body 2 lives, ( the breath of lives, plural) the breath of spiritual life and the breath of human life that he created in Gen.1:27. In so doing, Adam became a living soul, a soul alive in space and time. Our spirits are not created, they are generated by the Holy Spirit. Jn.3:6 Just as our flesh is of the substance of our parent's flesh, so too is the human spirit of the substance of God for our spirit is born of God the Holy Spirit. This why we are not born with a human spirit for what has righteousness to do with unrighteousness? Until we identify with Christ we are soul and body only.

That is your meaning, not obvious to me at all. Body + spirit does not equal soul. The souls under the altar in Revelation should make that obvious for they do not have bodies at that stage, they still await the Resurrection. Rev.6:9

Soul is a unique creation that only God can create and is the essence of who and what we are as human beings, created in the image of the Son who is Spirit and Soul in union.