What exactly is our soul?

[Gideon300]

No, my argument is with you not God. God calls us souls, you are the one insisting we are spirits, not God.

Show me, of those 387 verses, which one calls us spirits and I may change my mind but as far as I am aware not a one will be found, it will only speak of man as having a spirit, not being a spirit.

You claim that only those who are born again have a spirit. That is patently false. And to realise that man is a spirit being that has a soul requires some spiritual understanding that is beyond you.

I will try again: God is Spirit. We are created in God's image. Therefore fundamentally we are also spirit beings. We have a soul and we inhabit a body.

 

[Genez]

You claim that only those who are born again have a spirit. That is patently false.

Actually, that is an accurate understanding of what the Scriptures tell us.
Apparently. it looks like you have a great deal of time invested in the teaching you keep presenting to us.

 

[Genez]

You claim that only those who are born again have a spirit. That is patently false. And to realise that man is a spirit being that has a soul requires some spiritual understanding that is beyond you.

I will try again: God is Spirit. We are created in God's image. Therefore fundamentally we are also spirit beings. We have a soul and we inhabit a body.

God is immaterial and possesses volition.

Such is also man's characteristics with his soul.
In that way we are in the image of God.

 

[Gideon300]

God is immaterial and possesses volition.

Such is also man's characteristics with his soul.
In that way we are in the image of God.

So what is the spirit of man?

 

[sawdust]

You claim that only those who are born again have a spirit. That is patently false. And to realise that man is a spirit being that has a soul requires some spiritual understanding that is beyond you.

I will try again: God is Spirit. We are created in God's image. Therefore fundamentally we are also spirit beings. We have a soul and we inhabit a body.

God the Son is Spirit, Soul and Body. We are spirit, soul and body when regenerated. Looks more like God's image and likeness to me than being spirits.

Why don't you show me which one of those 387 verses calls us a spirit? What's that? .... crickets?

We were designed to be spiritual beings, not to be spirits. You need to learn the difference.

We are dead in our sin before regeneration, having no spiritual life. You can't be a spirit and not have a spiritual life, it would be in the core of your being.

 

[Genez]

So what is the spirit of man?

You mean the human spirit from God?

 

[GWH]

No one received the *permanently indwelling* Holy Spirit until after Jesus had ascended back to Heaven and was glorified!

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ​

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as ​

Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” ​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. ​

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.​

​

John 7:37-39​

It makes no sense per Rom. 8:9 to view the HS as coming and going and folks as fluctuating between being saved or not.
It makes more sense to view the HS as filling or not as believers cooperate or not, just as revealed in the NT.

John 7:37-39 can be understood as indicating that where GW/revelation is not given, neither is the HS--
as far as folks know/realize.

Otherwise the questions remains, "Did OT believers manifest godly fruit without having the HS or was the HS working without their knowledge? I vote for the latter as making more sense.

 

[GWH]

Except each verse has "man" in the singular, not the plural.

No, some verses have "adam"/him, and others have "male and female"/them.
Don't prooftext; harmonize!

 

[Gideon300]

You mean the human spirit from God?

Yes. The spirit that God gave us when we were created and never removed.

 

[Genez]

Yes. The spirit that God gave us when we were created and never removed.

Alright.....

I suggest you go over to X (formerly Twitter) and see the same attitude you keep presenting here being driven home by transgenders. They keep repeating over and over again the same lie that they want everyone to accept about who they are. It's a Satanic ploy.

I am not going to argue with you about this issue any more. It would be like arguing with a biological male that he is not a woman.

You enjoy your belief. Form your own little church.
Enjoy your sense of certainty.

I almost wanted to argue again.
But, no.
It is me who must learn my lesson from this.
Not you.

Have a nice Day.

 

[Genez]

It makes no sense per Rom. 8:9 to view the HS as coming and going and folks as fluctuating between being saved or not.
It makes more sense to view the HS as filling or not as believers cooperate or not, just as revealed in the NT.

John 7:37-39 can be understood as indicating that where GW/revelation is not given, neither is the HS--
as far as folks know/realize.

Otherwise the questions remains, "Did OT believers manifest godly fruit without having the HS or was the HS working without their knowledge? I vote for the latter as making more sense.

What does it say?
Not what do you want it to say...

​

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ​

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as ​

Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” ​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. ​

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.​

John 7:37-39

Deal with what it says.
Not negating it by what seems to make more sense to you.

Can you accept it?

One thing OT believers could never experience because they did not have the permanently indwelling Spirit?
Is the following.

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, ​

are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, ​

which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18​

The OT saints having only a human spirit were able to grasp knowledge of Scripture.
They could believe in prophecies.
What they could not do without the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Becoming transformed into becoming, in their own small way, as Christ in this world.

We are to be here in his stead. "Ambassadors."
Those who mature in sound doctrine.... avoiding pet doctrines designed to please one's own way of thinking,
will be the Few that Find it.

Can you accept it?

.....

 

[GWH]

What does it say?
Not what do you want it to say...

​

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ​

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as ​

Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” ​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. ​

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.​

John 7:37-39

Deal with what it says.
Not negating it by what seems to make more sense to you.

Can you accept it?

One thing OT believers could never experience because they did not have the permanently indwelling Spirit?
Is the following.

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, ​

are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, ​

which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18​

The OT saints having only a human spirit were able to grasp knowledge of Scripture.
They could believe in prophecies.
What they could not do without the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Becoming transformed into becoming, in their own small way, as Christ in this world.

We are to be here in his stead. "Ambassadors."
Those who mature in sound doctrine.... avoiding pet doctrines designed to please one's own way of thinking,
will be the Few that Find it.

Can you accept it?

.....

I am ahead of you, harmonizing John 7:37-39 with Rom. 8:9 and all of the other Scriptures I cited as I explained spiritual dynamics in post #277. (Take your time in catching up :^)
BTW, do recognize spiritual dynamics as a term used by RBT?

 

[Genez]

I am ahead of you, harmonizing John 7:37-39 with Rom. 8:9 and all of the other Scriptures I cited as I explained spiritual dynamics in post #277. (Take your time in catching up :^)
BTW, do recognize spiritual dynamics as a term used by RBT?

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying,
If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. He that believeth on me,
as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.
But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive:
for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Rom. 8:9

You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.


Whatever.....

 

[sawdust]

No, some verses have "adam"/him, and others have "male and female"/them.
Don't prooftext; harmonize!

That sounds like it translates to "make things fit according to our understanding" instead of believing what's actually written.

The word translated as man (adam and ha'adam) is in the singular in each of those verses. Simple fact. As far as I am concerned, adam Gen.1:26 is speaking of a single species, while the other two verses using ha'adam is speaking of a single man.

I am not going to harmonize at the expense of what is written just to feel good about it. What I don't know, I don't know and I will wait upon the Lord for enlightenment.

 

[frederickdoc]

What does it say?
Not what do you want it to say...

​

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ​

“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as ​

Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” ​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. ​

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.​

John 7:37-39

Deal with what it says.
Not negating it by what seems to make more sense to you.

Can you accept it?

One thing OT believers could never experience because they did not have the permanently indwelling Spirit?
Is the following.

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, ​

are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, ​

which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18​

The OT saints having only a human spirit were able to grasp knowledge of Scripture.
They could believe in prophecies.
What they could not do without the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Becoming transformed into becoming, in their own small way, as Christ in this world.

We are to be here in his stead. "Ambassadors."
Those who mature in sound doctrine.... avoiding pet doctrines designed to please one's own way of thinking,
will be the Few that Find it.

Can you accept it?

.....

Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without Measure.The disciples didn't Recieve the Holy spirit within. The disciples
let's say we're operation from Jesus not measure Anointing. The Ot is like that operating from God's own anointing outside of them
.The new testament God Holy Spirit abides within Each just like Jesus But we are measured , to what I say can handle. Look at it like this I say ;May the Lord be with you OT now that his Spirit is within me
Now. I say; May the Lord within you & Parah!
now I'm speaking all fruit of Him NT
who am I To say? Jesus Set the perfect plan for All .This is All that matters and eventually all will be in the same NT promise from the outside And Now inSide.
Do your own, from within.
I see many trying from the Outside and thats long Gone. . It can be called many things lack a faith, face Faith in a group or I can tell you it is no more of him being outside.
trying to operate of the Spirit of someine elses anointing .that does still happen when The Lord may Use a non Spirit filled man or woman to do a work etc try your best to understand thanx

 

[GWH]

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying,
If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. He that believeth on me,
as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.
But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive:
for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Rom. 8:9

You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.


Whatever.....

No, not whatever. Don't be lazy and engage in double-think.
What is so terrible/difficult about harmonizing them as I have shown/shared?:
OT saints had the HS per Rom. 8:9 without it being revealed until John 7:37-39.

 

[GWH]

That sounds like it translates to "make things fit according to our understanding" instead of believing what's actually written.

The word translated as man (adam and ha'adam) is in the singular in each of those verses. Simple fact. As far as I am concerned, adam Gen.1:26 is speaking of a single species, while the other two verses using ha'adam is speaking of a single man.

I am not going to harmonize at the expense of what is written just to feel good about it. What I don't know, I don't know and I will wait upon the Lord for enlightenment.

Not at all. You should meditate on the example of Jesus harmonizing Scripture in Matt. 4:6-7 until it sinks in.
Last time I checked a single species is comprised of multiple individuals, male and female.
It is silly to wait to know what is obvious. Why not feel good about a logical understanding of what is written?

 

[sawdust]

Not at all. You should meditate on the example of Jesus harmonizing Scripture in Matt. 4:6-7 until it sinks in.
Last time I checked a single species is comprised of multiple individuals, male and female.
It is silly to wait to know what is obvious. Why not feel good about a logical understanding of what is written?

Because it is your logical understanding and I'm not interested in your understanding I want to know the mind of Christ.

I will not harmonize at the expense of grammar etc.

 

[GWH]

Because it is your logical understanding and I'm not interested in your understanding I want to know the mind of Christ.

I will not harmonize at the expense of grammar etc.

Have you ever wondered whether YOUR understanding is neither logical nor the mind of Logos?
I discern you do not view Matt. 4:6-7 as the mind of Christ.
I welcome the understanding of others, who might have insight from Christ's HS.
Just recently someone pointed me to the importance of 2Thes. 2:10-13.

 

[sawdust]

Have you ever wondered whether YOUR understanding is neither logical nor the mind of Logos?
I discern you do not view Matt. 4:6-7 as the mind of Christ.
I welcome the understanding of others, who might have insight from Christ's HS.
Just recently someone pointed me to the importance of 2Thes. 2:10-13.

Strewth. You're the one who wants to harmonize without reference to the actual language used. Then you want to say I don't see something Christ said as His mind without any evidence. And then you seem to imply I'm delusional and want to say I might be illogical? Unbelievable.

I welcome the input of others too but not at the expense of what is actually written just so you can feel good about it.