The Moses of our time. A tribute to P.

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Yes, but that only happens when the previous king is dead. Charles III only became king when his mother, Queen Elizabeth II, died. Jesus rose from the dead after three days. And remember, when Jesus was on earth, there hadn't been a king from the line of David for a long time. The Herods mentioned in the New Testament were of Edomite descent, and were appointed as puppet kings by the Roman Empire. Added to that is the fact that Jesus Himself states clearly:

(Joh 18:36 NKJV) Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."


I say again, I have not mentioned the Mormons, so I am unsure why you brought them up in replying to me. Where do you find in the Bible any idea of a Davidic king presiding over 144,000 kings of the earth? The only place I can find the number 144,000 in the Bible is in this passage:

(Rev 14:1 NKJV) Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.
(Rev 14:2) And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.
(Rev 14:3) They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

No mention of them being kings of the earth.


You say it's not brain surgery to understand these things. OK, so show me simply, by quoting Scripture, that these ideas of yours must be true. Where does the Bible make any mention of John calling upon the Saviour for the protection of his people? Where does the Bible say that the 144,000 are Israelites saved to serve?

What I find interesting is that some books of scripture read as poetry, like in the case of Revelation. While others, like Hebrews read as school textbooks. Revelation grabs the reader as a thought-provoking van Gogh, while Hebrews simply puts the reader to sleep. Just an observation.

1) The previous king, Jesus Christ, died and was put in the tomb. His tenure as a Davidic King in the line of Davidic Kings was over, and the next man in line to that kingship inherits that position. We are talking about here on this earth, in mortality. The next in line would have been the oldest son of Jesus. And since he did not have children, then the assignment of Davidic King goes to the oldest living son of Mary. However, Jesus bypassed the oldest living son by appointing John as Mary's son.

King David had done a similar thing when he chose Solomon. Thus, the presiding king, Jesus, appointed his successor John in an orderly transition of governmental power here upon the earth. And this should be easy to see. Not that you have to believe it, but that it is easy to see. Like two plus two equals four is easy to see, but not necessarily easy to believe.

We are specifically talking about Davidic Kings having the Davidic Covenant at their disposal. Anyone not a Davidic King does not enjoy the Davidic Covenant. Jesus to John transitions the Davidic Covenant in the downline of the Davidic Kings. Jesus held the Davidic Covenant and passed that covenant to John as the next Davidic King. Thus, John, as the Davidic King upon the earth, can and will exercise the Davidic Covenant for the protection of his people during the seven years of tribulation and judgment (Rev. 6:17). This is what the sealing of the 144,000 in Rev. 7:4-8 is all about. They are sealed under the Davidic Covenant to their Davidic King so that they are protected during the destructions here upon the earth. Such is the case in Rev. 9:4 that the 144,000 having the seal of the living God can not be harmed. They are sealed under the Davidic Covenant, and only a Davidic King can do that.

2) It is simply a matter of reading scripture at a level. We are all at different levels. So when I read Revelation, I see the book differently than you do. Both are correct, but at different levels. And there is a level of understanding above mine and perhaps more than one.

John has the assignment. Which he accepted in Rev. 10:8-11. The assignment is for the preservation of the saints upon the earth during the tribulation, and after (Rev. 7:12-17). This preservation involves an army (Rev. 19:17-20) of 144,000 (Rev. 14:1) to harvest the saints of God (Rev. 14:14-16) and destroy the beast (Rev. 14:17-20) in the winepress (Rev. 19:15). This is the 3.5-year tribulation ending with the saints having victory over the beast (Rev. 12:11, Rev. 15:2).

Next comes the 3.5-year judgment. It is here that the 144,000 work as judges discerning who can be gathered and who can not (Rev. 16:2-7). The level that I am reading is not necessarily defined by biblical scholars. But I have worked on the revelation for years and see the book all at once. I see how the subjects in the text flow together in the level that I am at.

For example the four storylines. I only cross-reference between the four storylines and never outside the revelation. That is, I restrict myself to only the revelation. And that is the level that I read.

I see the Davidic King throughout the book. The metaphorical phrase "kings of the earth" is the 144,000 (Rev. 17:2, Rev. 18:3, etc.).
So you are asking me to quote verses at the level you are reading, and I am asking you to read the Revelation at a higher level, and I can show you those verses.
 
What does P stand for in your thread title?

P is a pre-tribber who is a great saint. Unfortunately, he can not see the light. And I have tried to explain the correct doctrine to him in the simplest terms to no avail.

And I was thinking the other day about President Truman when he was in an airplane at the same time as General MacArthur who was in another airplane. The debate was, who lands first to welcome the second landing party. And since there was a debate then MacArthur was fired. Showing who should have landed first to welcome the second.

Such is the case in the return of the Savior to the earth. The welcoming party is organized first, and then comes the King. Thus, the King comes at the end of the seven years of tribulation and judgment.
 
What I find interesting is that some books of scripture read as poetry, like in the case of Revelation. While others, like Hebrews read as school textbooks. Revelation grabs the reader as a thought-provoking van Gogh, while Hebrews simply puts the reader to sleep. Just an observation.

1) The previous king, Jesus Christ, died and was put in the tomb. His tenure as a Davidic King in the line of Davidic Kings was over, and the next man in line to that kingship inherits that position. We are talking about here on this earth, in mortality. The next in line would have been the oldest son of Jesus. And since he did not have children, then the assignment of Davidic King goes to the oldest living son of Mary. However, Jesus bypassed the oldest living son by appointing John as Mary's son.

King David had done a similar thing when he chose Solomon. Thus, the presiding king, Jesus, appointed his successor John in an orderly transition of governmental power here upon the earth. And this should be easy to see. Not that you have to believe it, but that it is easy to see. Like two plus two equals four is easy to see, but not necessarily easy to believe.

We are specifically talking about Davidic Kings having the Davidic Covenant at their disposal. Anyone not a Davidic King does not enjoy the Davidic Covenant. Jesus to John transitions the Davidic Covenant in the downline of the Davidic Kings. Jesus held the Davidic Covenant and passed that covenant to John as the next Davidic King. Thus, John, as the Davidic King upon the earth, can and will exercise the Davidic Covenant for the protection of his people during the seven years of tribulation and judgment (Rev. 6:17). This is what the sealing of the 144,000 in Rev. 7:4-8 is all about. They are sealed under the Davidic Covenant to their Davidic King so that they are protected during the destructions here upon the earth. Such is the case in Rev. 9:4 that the 144,000 having the seal of the living God can not be harmed. They are sealed under the Davidic Covenant, and only a Davidic King can do that.

2) It is simply a matter of reading scripture at a level. We are all at different levels. So when I read Revelation, I see the book differently than you do. Both are correct, but at different levels. And there is a level of understanding above mine and perhaps more than one.

John has the assignment. Which he accepted in Rev. 10:8-11. The assignment is for the preservation of the saints upon the earth during the tribulation, and after (Rev. 7:12-17). This preservation involves an army (Rev. 19:17-20) of 144,000 (Rev. 14:1) to harvest the saints of God (Rev. 14:14-16) and destroy the beast (Rev. 14:17-20) in the winepress (Rev. 19:15). This is the 3.5-year tribulation ending with the saints having victory over the beast (Rev. 12:11, Rev. 15:2).

Next comes the 3.5-year judgment. It is here that the 144,000 work as judges discerning who can be gathered and who can not (Rev. 16:2-7). The level that I am reading is not necessarily defined by biblical scholars. But I have worked on the revelation for years and see the book all at once. I see how the subjects in the text flow together in the level that I am at.

For example the four storylines. I only cross-reference between the four storylines and never outside the revelation. That is, I restrict myself to only the revelation. And that is the level that I read.

I see the Davidic King throughout the book. The metaphorical phrase "kings of the earth" is the 144,000 (Rev. 17:2, Rev. 18:3, etc.).
So you are asking me to quote verses at the level you are reading, and I am asking you to read the Revelation at a higher level, and I can show you those verses.
So who was the Davidic king before Jesus was born at Bethlehem?
 
So who was the Davidic king before Jesus was born at Bethlehem?

Going back to Zorobabel at the return from Babylon, two ancestral descents are given.

I
1) Jechonias begat 2) Salathiel who begat 3) Zorobabel

= Matt. 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

1) Neri? 2) Salathiel who begat 3) Zorobabel

= Luke 3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

II
Zorobabel begat 4) Abiud who begat 5) Eliakim who begat 6) Azor

= Matt. 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

Zorobebel begat 4) Rhesa who begat 5) Joanna who begat 6) Juda
= Luke 3:26-27 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, 27Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

III
Azor begat 7) Sadoc who begat 8) Achim who begat 9) Eliud

= Matt. 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

Juda begat 7) Joseph who begat 8) Semei who begat 9) Mattathias
= Luke 3:26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

IV
Eluid begat 10) Eleazar who begat 11) Matthan who begat 12) Jacob

= Matt. 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

Mattathias begat 10) Maath who begat 11) Nagge who begat 12) Esli
= Luke 3:25-26 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, 26Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

V
Jacob begat 13) Joseph who begat 14) Jesus Christ

= Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Esli begat 13) Naum who begat 14) Amos who begat 15) Mattathias who begat 16) Joseph who begat 17) Janna who begat 18) Melchi who begat 19) Levi who begat 20) Matthat who begat 21) Heli who begat 22) Joseph who begat "as was supposed" 23) Jesus Christ
= Luke 3: 23-25 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, 24Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, 25Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,


As you can see, Matthew was showing evidence to the Jews that Jesus was in fact the rightful heir to the throne of David, being fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the captivity, and fourteen generations from the captivity to the Christ (as listed above).

Whereas Luke is down in the trenches with the families recounting the geneology from Jesus going back to Adam. So Luke is not concerned with the Davidic Throne, but showing that Jesus was born into the family of Adam.

And Jesus in both cases descends from David. In the first case, Joseph was the rightful heir to the throne, and Jesus being his son was the rightful heir upon Joseph's passing. It follows that Mary's sons are the righful heirs to the throne of David. Since John was her son as designated by Jesus, then John is the next Davidic King after Jesus.
 
I should include, regarding governmental powers. Some individuals of Jesus' ancestry are not Davidic Kings. They were passed over for one reason or another. Also, some kings change their names. So while Matthew shows the line of Davidic Kings, and Luke shows the actual geneology, they do not contradict one another.

Matthew shows the Davidic Kings
Luke shows Jesus' geneology
 
Going back to Zorobabel at the return from Babylon, two ancestral descents are given.

I
1) Jechonias begat 2) Salathiel who begat 3) Zorobabel

= Matt. 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

1) Neri? 2) Salathiel who begat 3) Zorobabel

= Luke 3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

II
Zorobabel begat 4) Abiud who begat 5) Eliakim who begat 6) Azor

= Matt. 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

Zorobebel begat 4) Rhesa who begat 5) Joanna who begat 6) Juda
= Luke 3:26-27 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, 27Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,

III
Azor begat 7) Sadoc who begat 8) Achim who begat 9) Eliud

= Matt. 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

Juda begat 7) Joseph who begat 8) Semei who begat 9) Mattathias

= Luke 3:26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

IV
Eluid begat 10) Eleazar who begat 11) Matthan who begat 12) Jacob

= Matt. 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

Mattathias begat 10) Maath who begat 11) Nagge who begat 12) Esli
= Luke 3:25-26 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, 26Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,

V
Jacob begat 13) Joseph who begat 14) Jesus Christ

= Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Esli begat 13) Naum who begat 14) Amos who begat 15) Mattathias who begat 16) Joseph who begat 17) Janna who begat 18) Melchi who begat 19) Levi who begat 20) Matthat who begat 21) Heli who begat 22) Joseph who begat "as was supposed" 23) Jesus Christ

= Luke 3: 23-25 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, 24Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, 25Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,


As you can see, Matthew was showing evidence to the Jews that Jesus was in fact the rightful heir to the throne of David, being fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the captivity, and fourteen generations from the captivity to the Christ (as listed above).

Whereas Luke is down in the trenches with the families recounting the geneology from Jesus going back to Adam. So Luke is not concerned with the Davidic Throne, but showing that Jesus was born into the family of Adam.

And Jesus in both cases descends from David. In the first case, Joseph was the rightful heir to the throne, and Jesus being his son was the rightful heir upon Joseph's passing. It follows that Mary's sons are the righful heirs to the throne of David. Since John was her son as designated by Jesus, then John is the next Davidic King after Jesus.
But the Bible says absolutely nothing about Mary's husband Joseph, or his father Jacob, being kings. As for you saying that Mary's sons are the rightful heirs to the throne of David, what of about Mary's sons who were half-brothers of Jesus? You state with such certainty things that are not even mentioned in the Bible.
 
But the Bible says absolutely nothing about Mary's husband Joseph, or his father Jacob, being kings. As for you saying that Mary's sons are the rightful heirs to the throne of David, what of about Mary's sons who were half-brothers of Jesus? You state with such certainty things that are not even mentioned in the Bible.

Matthew shows three sets of fourteen generations. In this second set of fourteen, he shows Davidic Kings with the illegitimate excluded.

From the internet:

"The succession of kings in the Davidic line includes:
  1. King David (Founder of the dynasty)
  2. Solomon 1) Matt. 1:6
  3. Rehoboam 2) Matt. 1:7
  4. Abijah (also called Abijam) 3) Matt. 1:7
  5. Asa 4) Matt. 1:7
  6. Jehoshaphat 5) Matt. 1:8
  7. Jehoram (also called Joram) 6) Matt. 1:8
  8. Ahaziah (nephew of Jehoram)
  9. Athaliah (the mother of Ahaziah)
  10. Joash (grandson of Athaliah)
  11. Amaziah (son of Joash)
  12. Uzziah (son of Amaziah, also called Azariah, Ozias) 7) Matt. 1:8
  13. Jotham 8) Matt. 1:9
  14. Ahaz 9) Matt. 1:9
  15. Hezekiah 10) Matt. 1:9
  16. Manasseh 11) Matt. 1:10
  17. Amon 12) Matt. 1:10
  18. Josiah (Josias) 13) Matt. 1:10
  19. Jehoahaz (Jechoias) 14) Matt. 1:11
  20. Jehoiakim (brother to Jehoahaz)
  21. Jeconiah (son of Jehoiakin) (also called Jehoiachin)
  22. Zedekiah (Uncle of Jehoniah and the last reigning king) [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

Next, in Matthew's third set of fourteen, he shows from the captivity down to Christ. In this set, the Davidic Kings do not have governmental power. They were never coronated in their position as Davidic Kings. That is, Jesus was never crowned as the Davidic King, although he rightfully held that position in the downline. Such was the case for all the people in the list, including Jesus step-father Joseph; according to Matthew, a Davidic King by birthright.


Matt. 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon,
19. Jechonias begat
20. Salathiel; and Salathiel begat
21. Zorobabel;

Matt. 1:13 And Zorobabel begat
22. Abiud; and Abiud begat
23. Eliakim; and Eliakim begat
24. Azor;

Matt. 1:14 And Azor begat
25. Sadoc; and Sadoc begat
26. Achim; and Achim begat
27. Eliud;

Matt. 1:15 And Eliud begat
28. Eleazar; and Eleazar begat
29. Matthan; and Matthan begat
30. Jacob;

Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat
31. Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born
32. Jesus, who is called Christ.


I realize this subject is not taught in the Christian churches. However, Jesus was a Davidic King, not the only Davidic King.
 
Matthew shows three sets of fourteen generations. In this second set of fourteen, he shows Davidic Kings with the illegitimate excluded.

From the internet:

"The succession of kings in the Davidic line includes:
  1. King David (Founder of the dynasty)
  2. Solomon 1) Matt. 1:6
  3. Rehoboam 2) Matt. 1:7
  4. Abijah (also called Abijam) 3) Matt. 1:7
  5. Asa 4) Matt. 1:7
  6. Jehoshaphat 5) Matt. 1:8
  7. Jehoram (also called Joram) 6) Matt. 1:8
  8. Ahaziah (nephew of Jehoram)
  9. Athaliah (the mother of Ahaziah)
  10. Joash (grandson of Athaliah)
  11. Amaziah (son of Joash)
  12. Uzziah (son of Amaziah, also called Azariah, Ozias) 7) Matt. 1:8
  13. Jotham 8) Matt. 1:9
  14. Ahaz 9) Matt. 1:9
  15. Hezekiah 10) Matt. 1:9
  16. Manasseh 11) Matt. 1:10
  17. Amon 12) Matt. 1:10
  18. Josiah (Josias) 13) Matt. 1:10
  19. Jehoahaz (Jechoias) 14) Matt. 1:11
  20. Jehoiakim (brother to Jehoahaz)
  21. Jeconiah (son of Jehoiakin) (also called Jehoiachin)
  22. Zedekiah (Uncle of Jehoniah and the last reigning king) [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]

Next, in Matthew's third set of fourteen, he shows from the captivity down to Christ. In this set, the Davidic Kings do not have governmental power. They were never coronated in their position as Davidic Kings. That is, Jesus was never crowned as the Davidic King, although he rightfully held that position in the downline. Such was the case for all the people in the list, including Jesus step-father Joseph; according to Matthew, a Davidic King by birthright.


Matt. 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon,
19. Jechonias begat
20. Salathiel; and Salathiel begat
21. Zorobabel;

Matt. 1:13 And Zorobabel begat
22. Abiud; and Abiud begat
23. Eliakim; and Eliakim begat
24. Azor;

Matt. 1:14 And Azor begat
25. Sadoc; and Sadoc begat
26. Achim; and Achim begat
27. Eliud;

Matt. 1:15 And Eliud begat
28. Eleazar; and Eleazar begat
29. Matthan; and Matthan begat
30. Jacob;

Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat
31. Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born
32. Jesus, who is called Christ.


I realize this subject is not taught in the Christian churches. However, Jesus was a Davidic King, not the only Davidic King.
If the Christian churches you mention at the end of your post faithfully teach the Bible, then it is hardly surprising that they don't teach that Joseph, Jacob, Matthan, Eleazar, Eliud and the rest were actually kings, but never crowned, or that the apostle John was a Davidic king. Such things are not taught in the Bible.
 
If the Christian churches you mention at the end of your post faithfully teach the Bible, then it is hardly surprising that they don't teach that Joseph, Jacob, Matthan, Eleazar, Eliud and the rest were actually kings, but never crowned, or that the apostle John was a Davidic king. Such things are not taught in the Bible.

I know. Jesus was in the same boat. A Davidic King that was never crowned.
 
I know. Jesus was in the same boat. A Davidic King that was never crowned.
Yes, but Scripture says that God the Father gave the throne of David to Jesus. Scripture says absolutely nothing of Joseph, Jacob, Matthan, Eleazar, Eliud and the rest were kings, or that the apostle John was a king.
 
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Yes, but Scripture says that God the Father gave the throne of David to Jesus. Scripture says absolutely nothing of Joseph, Jacob, Matthan, Eleazar, Eliud and the rest were kings, or that the apostle John was a king.

I kind of remember that. I will see if I can find those verses and share.

However, not only was the throne of David given to Jesus, it had previously been given to others as well.

The throne of David is not a one person kind of thing but passed down father to son. This is evidenced by David passing the throne to Solomon.

David, I do not understand the problem. Are you saying that Jesus is the only Davidic King?
 
I kind of remember that. I will see if I can find those verses and share.
It's part of the angel Gabriel's message to Mary:

(Luk 1:32) He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

However, not only was the throne of David given to Jesus, it had previously been given to others as well.

The throne of David is not a one person kind of thing but passed down father to son. This is evidenced by David passing the throne to Solomon.

David, I do not understand the problem. Are you saying that Jesus is the only Davidic King?
No I am not saying that Jesus is the only Davidic king. Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijaj, Asa, etc. were all Davidic kings. However, we read of no David kings apart from Jesus, after Jehoiachin. After Jehoiachin, we don't read in the Bible of any descendants of David (apart from Jesus) being kings. Mattaniah, (Jehoiachin's uncle, not his son, was made king by Nebuchadnezzar.) Jesus's kingship was unique, because His kingdom was not an earthly kingdom
 
It's part of the angel Gabriel's message to Mary:

(Luk 1:32) He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.


No I am not saying that Jesus is the only Davidic king. Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijaj, Asa, etc. were all Davidic kings. However, we read of no David kings apart from Jesus, after Jehoiachin. After Jehoiachin, we don't read in the Bible of any descendants of David (apart from Jesus) being kings. Mattaniah, (Jehoiachin's uncle, not his son, was made king by Nebuchadnezzar.) Jesus's kingship was unique, because His kingdom was not an earthly kingdom

You are saying
1) Davidic Kings
2) Next the downline of Davidic Kings no longer exists.
3) Next Jesus is a Davidic King not associated with the previous Davidic Kings.
 
You are saying
1) Davidic Kings
2) Next the downline of Davidic Kings no longer exists.
3) Next Jesus is a Davidic King not associated with the previous Davidic Kings.
Right. The other actual kings in David's line were in the natural ancestry of Jesus, but He is not a king as a result of Joseph being a king. (Joseph, although descended from David, was not a king, nor was he the biological father of Jesus.)
 
Jesus is God; there is none before or after Him (Isaiah 43:10)

Jesus said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8 NKJV)
 
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Right. The other actual kings in David's line were in the natural ancestry of Jesus, but He is not a king as a result of Joseph being a king. (Joseph, although descended from David, was not a king, nor was he the biological father of Jesus.)

The people called Jesus the son of David, meaning the Davidic King. They knew his ancestry. Christians on the other hand do not place a value on the downline of the Davidic Kings. Thus, to them as yourself, Jesus has no association with the previous Davidic Kings.

However, as I demonstrated previously, Matthew shows fourteen generations of Davidic Kings in Jesus ancestry.

He shows the dynasty downline proving to the Jews that Jesus is their Davidic King. The ancestry in Chapter One is his proof.
And your position is that Matthew is not providing proof to the Jews that Jesus is in fact their Davidic King.
 
The people called Jesus the son of David, meaning the Davidic King. They knew his ancestry. Christians on the other hand do not place a value on the downline of the Davidic Kings. Thus, to them as yourself, Jesus has no association with the previous Davidic Kings.

However, as I demonstrated previously, Matthew shows fourteen generations of Davidic Kings in Jesus ancestry.
No, Matthew shows generations of descendants of David in the ancestry of Jesus. He does not say that they were all kings themselves. If you believe people like Joseph, Jacob, Matthan etc. were kings, quote where in the Bible we are told this.
He shows the dynasty downline proving to the Jews that Jesus is their Davidic King. The ancestry in Chapter One is his proof.
And your position is that Matthew is not providing proof to the Jews that Jesus is in fact their Davidic King.
No, that's not my position. Even though His kingdom is not of this world, the Bible makes clear that Jesus would indeed have "the throne of His father David."
 
No, Matthew shows generations of descendants of David in the ancestry of Jesus. He does not say that they were all kings themselves. If you believe people like Joseph, Jacob, Matthan etc. were kings, quote where in the Bible we are told this.

No, that's not my position. Even though His kingdom is not of this world, the Bible makes clear that Jesus would indeed have "the throne of His father David."

I am sorry that you are not able to accept the Davidic King John. The literal reading of scripture has its place.
 
I am sorry that you are not able to accept the Davidic King John. The literal reading of scripture has its place.
The reason that I don't accept that John was a king is that nowhere in the Bible are we told that he was. If John were, as you claim, a Davidic king, do you believe that Jesus is no longer a King? The Bible says He is.
 
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The reason that I don't accept that John was a king is that nowhere in the Bible are we told that he was. If John were, as you claim, a Davidic king, do you believe that Jesus is no longer a King? The Bible says He is.

When David died then his son Solomon was king. When he died then his son became king. And so the line of Davidic Kings go down to the current Davidic King. The tribe of Judah is still here, and so is the bloodline of King David.

To suppose that bloodline no longer exists is not reasonable. It is like saying that DNA is not in the Bible so it does not exist.

Davidic Kings have the Davidic Covenant at their disposal. Meaning that they can sacrifice themselves for their people. Which is what Jesus did on the eternal scale. But traditionally they only facilitate the covenant temporally. Most however are not able to use the covenant due to their wickedness.

So yes Jesus was a Davidic King while in mortalaty. Therefore he is one of the Davidic Kings. However, he is God Almighty which is more than a Davidic King. His covenant is eternal.

Since you do not accept the current Davidic King then you will not be protected under that covenant. You do have salvation in your personal covenant with Jesus Christ however.