How has science impacted your perspective on the Hebrew Bible?

[GWH]

"However, there is some evidence in Scripture that humans can devolve into wolves, snakes and pigs." Physically impossible.

But spiritually true (Matt. 10:16, 23:33, 7:6)!

 

[rewriter]

"However, there is some evidence in Scripture that humans can devolve into wolves, snakes and pigs." Physically impossible.

I agree with the physical impossibility, but mentally and emotionally at times seems possible, although that attitude might be insulting to wolves, snakes and pigs.

 

[TruthDefender]

The Hubble space based telescope is looking back over 1 billion yrs in the past. Paleontology has demonstrate humanity has existed over hundreds of thousand of years. Geologists believe the earth is about 4 billion yrs old. Geoscientists look at crude oil that comes from 15,000 ft below the surface and see pollen grains, plant spores and algal cysts of ancient algae demonstrating ancient life on earth. These and many other data from the scientific community seem to describe a world very different than that of Genesis. How we relate to these evolving facts and how do we inform our children on the data that confronts the Genesis account?

There’s only one problem, God tells us differently! So obviously, those so called “Facts” are FALSE.

Satan is in the world, and he causes havoc everywhere, and heavily attacks God’s Truth.

 

[TruthDefender]

"However, there is some evidence in Scripture that humans can devolve into wolves, snakes and pigs." Physically impossible.

Metaphors!!

 

[biblestudent78]

There’s only one problem, God tells us differently! So obviously, those so called “Facts” are FALSE.

Satan is in the world, and he causes havoc everywhere, and heavily attacks God’s Truth.

So what exactly did God "tell you?"

 

[biblestudent78]

All of that is a psychological warfare. "Billions of years‘ is an astronomical, incomprehensible number to human mind, it's equal to eternity, it makes you think that the universe itself is a god who's always been there, and it has generated everything all by itself;

Meanwhile, you'll also hear stuffs like "religions only have a few thousand years' history" in comparison; the concept of God were invented to help explain unexplainable events, to provide a sense of certainty, to attribute all the good things and bad things to a higher supreme being. Without these needs met, human beings can't function, human societies can't function. And this is where science fits in, sophisticated, advanced natural and social science, in the enlightened era to meet all those needs, even though science doesn't really have all the answers; religion is nothing but a relic in the past for the dull bumpkins who still are living in the dark age.

And this is the real ulterior motive. What you're talking about is not science, as in "knowledge of the cosmos", but scienTISM, a man made religion with its own narrative and worldview as I explained above.

Science has no "answers" especially about causes for our reality. It has no motive other than the collection of data, the analysis of that data, conducting experiments to validate that data and were appropriate completely discard previous conclusions.

IMHO there is no legitimate conversation in which religion and science are at odds. They address entirely different frameworks. There is not ethic or moral component to science...thus nuclear weapons and germ warfare.

That leaves religion to deal with it own internecine wars. Church's are splitting, the younger generation is increasingly disinterested in the Christian wars they see. They find that a large swath of Christianity has been co-opted by one political party or the other. The see multimillion dollar budget that bring no help for the poor, the widow, the orphan and those addicted and despondent. The see all white or black churches composed of middle to upper middle class people who made any other dress or perspective subject to my way or the highway from a purely cultural perspective.

They see people in church and leading the church significantly and widely doing corrupt and often illegal things. They see that the average size of Christian church is 60 people most over 50 yrs old and that thousands permanently close their doors every year. They see multi millionaire Pastors "selling Christian prosperity and health promises" for $$$$$. They see a Christianity self destructing over dogmas while exhibiting nothing of the love which is the single validation of Christian authenticity.......

And we have determined it is all the fault of "science." Perhaps the most effective witness for Christian conversion would be to install large mirrors in the churches. Some see the ongoing splitting, fracturing and open hostility between former loving friends as as sign that something deeply inauthentic is at play. They see a vicious tendency to wreck unity over "issues" that have not been resolved for 2,000 yrs. What they see is a Christianity, writ large, that hate each other and especially those who they once claimed to love.

IMHO the single unifying and underlying reality is that we demand a Christianity configured to our needs, wants, economics, politics, ethics and comfort and we will do anything to achieve it. We want Jesus to stay on His cross and stop claiming He is in control of our day to day lives. We justify keeping Jesus in His lane by claiming "instantaneous salvation" to keep Him from claiming more than perhaps 4 hrs out our 168/wk. As a very deep level, many know they are not living any kind of biblical Christian life so we elevate our "righteousness" by claiming we "believe right" and that our preferred dogmas protect us from the converted hearts and lives God wants and requires.

Good science is like real Christianity. They both require constant changes in our lives.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

 

[TruthDefender]

Science has no "answers" especially about causes for our reality. It has no motive other than the collection of data, the analysis of that data, conducting experiments to validate that data and were appropriate completely discard previous conclusions.

IMHO there is no legitimate conversation in which religion and science are at odds. They address entirely different frameworks. There is not ethic or moral component to science...thus nuclear weapons and germ warfare.

That leaves religion to deal with it own internecine wars. Church's are splitting, the younger generation is increasingly disinterested in the Christian wars they see. They find that a large swath of Christianity has been co-opted by one political party or the other. The see multimillion dollar budget that bring no help for the poor, the widow, the orphan and those addicted and despondent. The see all white or black churches composed of middle to upper middle class people who made any other dress or perspective subject to my way or the highway from a purely cultural perspective.

They see people in church and leading the church significantly and widely doing corrupt and often illegal things. They see that the average size of Christian church is 60 people most over 50 yrs old and that thousands permanently close their doors every year. They see multi millionaire Pastors "selling Christian prosperity and health promises" for $$$$$. They see a Christianity self destructing over dogmas while exhibiting nothing of the love which is the single validation of Christian authenticity.......

And we have determined it is all the fault of "science." Perhaps the most effective witness for Christian conversion would be to install large mirrors in the churches. Some see the ongoing splitting, fracturing and open hostility between former loving friends as as sign that something deeply inauthentic is at play. They see a vicious tendency to wreck unity over "issues" that have not been resolved for 2,000 yrs. What they see is a Christianity, writ large, that hate each other and especially those who they once claimed to love.

IMHO the single unifying and underlying reality is that we demand a Christianity configured to our needs, wants, economics, politics, ethics and comfort and we will do anything to achieve it. We want Jesus to stay on His cross and stop claiming He is in control of our day to day lives. We justify keeping Jesus in His lane by claiming "instantaneous salvation" to keep Him from claiming more than perhaps 4 hrs out our 168/wk. As a very deep level, many know they are not living any kind of biblical Christian life so we elevate our "righteousness" by claiming we "believe right" and that our preferred dogmas protect us from the converted hearts and lives God wants and requires.

Good science is like real Christianity. They both require constant changes in our lives.

Having a bad day, are we?! So sorry that you feel so negative.

In actuality, the faith is growing in the U.S. Praise Him! Also, God’s word never changes, because God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

 

[dkontner]

Just before He was crucified

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

 

[TruthDefender]

So what exactly did God "tell you?"

Guess you never read the Bible! Try reading it.

 

[Roger316]

My Bible teacher told me that when he was a child, his Sunday School teacher argued that man would never go to the moon, and she used the Bible to prove it.

Sometimes we make mistakes.

 

[biblestudent78]

Guess you never read the Bible! Try reading it.

Too funny. I have read the bible for over 70 yrs. I can read it in numerous native languages. More importantly, I have studied the Bible in its Protestant (66 books), Catholic (73 books) and Coptic (75) versions. I have been a baptised Christian for 72 yrs. I attend a non-denomination church were I serve regularly. I am the ultimate Christian insider.

As a bible student I realized long ago that to find the full contextual environment of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament that a much deeper understanding of history is super helpful. I also recognize the compelling narrative of the entire corpus of the entire bible has several critical priorities that modern Christianity rejects in reality while pretending to accept it intellectually. Generally this is called lip service.

Lip service is enabled by a process of biblical obfuscation. In the library of over 700,000 words, someone long ago extracted and gave priority to those that define our predetermined dogmas. People have been using the bible a weegie board for thousands of years. World class chefs are in awe of the fact were can treat the bible as a massive library of meal components...a little clip from the old testament, sprinkle in a little 16th century anxieties, mix with our ancient assortment of proof texts and stir with the spoon only a few know how to use to get the "obvious" result desired. Each passing generation gets their secret copy of the holy recipe. Their job is to defend it to the point of animosity the criticality of maintaining our unique biblical recipe because it is "The Truth." Our ancient "Truths" are used not against pagans but against other so called Christians who use the same 700,000 words to evolve an entirely different set of ancient "Truths." Christians have been fighting these "Truth" wars for about 1,760 yrs. However, the one common denominator of virtually all these truth recipes is that they are all designed to convince us that Christianity is all about having the right truths.

Here's a scary thought. What if Jesus was not "only kidding" in all of Matthew 25? I don't believe that any of our viciously fought over "truths" seem to count for much. We also put pillows around Paul's statements in 1 Cor 13, that says it does not matter what ancient truths you profess or how deeply you believe in them, if the result in real life is not the creation and growth of a loving heart, you are just making noise.

So my biblical scholarship leads me to one clear unpopular conclusion. Christianity is about who you once were in word, through and deed and how through the power of God in Jesus how your life is now day by day taking up your cross and following in the servant leadership role Jesus exemplified. Jesus made is clear in His parable of the Good Samaritan that piety and biblical holiness are inadequate without your seeking and finding the wounded, needy, impoverished, hungry and addicted on life's roadside an delivering God's love through you to them. Perhaps that is why everyone would rather see a sermon than hear one.

Jesus was not the first messenger from God attempting to demonstrate to mankind that our mission is not intellectual "biblical" piety but to be part of God's people who deliver the love of God to their generation. All the prophets railed against the treatment of the poor, the widow and orphan, the needy victimized by and insulated from their plight by the "highly religious" quest for both piety and wealth.

What if Christianity was all about what you do for others and faith is the motivation but not the objective? Each generation gets to choose. Faith is either the endpoint or the beginning point of our lives.

 

[TruthDefender]

My Bible teacher told me that when he was a child, his Sunday School teacher argued that man would never go to the moon, and she used the Bible to prove it.

Sometimes we make mistakes.

Guess we should be more like the noble Bereans.

 

[biblestudent78]

Having a bad day, are we?! So sorry that you feel so negative.

In actuality, the faith is growing in the U.S. Praise Him! Also, God’s word never changes, because God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Some call it a gift for the obvious. 16 million Baptists 20 years ago 13+ million now. Methodists, Episcopalians and Lutherans numbers falling equally fast. 60% of all Christians in these churches have an average of 50+. Non-Denominational mega churches have attracted many out of other denominations, but many are based on one talented evangelist and that has led to many catastrophic outcomes when the leader fails. Non-Catholic Christianity is growing in the global south and in sub-saharan Africa. There are more Anglicans in Kenya than in England. The difference between churches closing and new ones opening in America is a net loss of 1,500/yr. The National Association of Churches estimates that at current accelerating levels of church closures as many as 100,000 Christian churches are at risk for closing over the next decade. 40+% of all non-denominational churches in America are charismatic and that movement is accelerating.

I am not having a bad day, but many older Christians in America are.

 

[Citizen]

Global cooling-wrong-Dead polar bears-wrong. Oh almost forgot all sea life dead by year 2000 due to oil spills-wrong. There are more but you get the point. Now ask yourself, which party would benefit from from these fake results? They couldnt sell global cooling or warming so now its climate change.

Yup. Science, research, and data can be true, but it can also be biased, political propaganda, manipulated, driven by financial gain, negated and proven false by new discoveries... the list is endless. Imperfect humans will produce imperfect scientific results.

Science has it's place and can benefit us, but it can also do great damage.

 

[GWH]

Too funny. I have read the bible for over 70 yrs. I can read it in numerous native languages. More importantly, I have studied the Bible in its Protestant (66 books), Catholic (73 books) and Coptic (75) versions. I have been a baptised Christian for 72 yrs. I attend a non-denomination church were I serve regularly. I am the ultimate Christian insider.

As a bible student I realized long ago that to find the full contextual environment of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament that a much deeper understanding of history is super helpful. I also recognize the compelling narrative of the entire corpus of the entire bible has several critical priorities that modern Christianity rejects in reality while pretending to accept it intellectually. Generally this is called lip service.

Lip service is enabled by a process of biblical obfuscation. In the library of over 700,000 words, someone long ago extracted and gave priority to those that define our predetermined dogmas. People have been using the bible a weegie board for thousands of years. World class chefs are in awe of the fact were can treat the bible as a massive library of meal components...a little clip from the old testament, sprinkle in a little 16th century anxieties, mix with our ancient assortment of proof texts and stir with the spoon only a few know how to use to get the "obvious" result desired. Each passing generation gets their secret copy of the holy recipe. Their job is to defend it to the point of animosity the criticality of maintaining our unique biblical recipe because it is "The Truth." Our ancient "Truths" are used not against pagans but against other so called Christians who use the same 700,000 words to evolve an entirely different set of ancient "Truths." Christians have been fighting these "Truth" wars for about 1,760 yrs. However, the one common denominator of virtually all these truth recipes is that they are all designed to convince us that Christianity is all about having the right truths.

Here's a scary thought. What if Jesus was not "only kidding" in all of Matthew 25? I don't believe that any of our viciously fought over "truths" seem to count for much. We also put pillows around Paul's statements in 1 Cor 13, that says it does not matter what ancient truths you profess or how deeply you believe in them, if the result in real life is not the creation and growth of a loving heart, you are just making noise.

So my biblical scholarship leads me to one clear unpopular conclusion. Christianity is about who you once were in word, through and deed and how through the power of God in Jesus how your life is now day by day taking up your cross and following in the servant leadership role Jesus exemplified. Jesus made is clear in His parable of the Good Samaritan that piety and biblical holiness are inadequate without your seeking and finding the wounded, needy, impoverished, hungry and addicted on life's roadside an delivering God's love through you to them. Perhaps that is why everyone would rather see a sermon than hear one.

Jesus was not the first messenger from God attempting to demonstrate to mankind that our mission is not intellectual "biblical" piety but to be part of God's people who deliver the love of God to their generation. All the prophets railed against the treatment of the poor, the widow and orphan, the needy victimized by and insulated from their plight by the "highly religious" quest for both piety and wealth.

What if Christianity was all about what you do for others and faith is the motivation but not the objective? Each generation gets to choose. Faith is either the endpoint or the beginning point of our lives.

Yes, God is revealed by world history (Acts 7:1-53, Heb. 11:1-40),
and Christ is revealed by our testimony (John 13:35, 17:21, 1Pet. 3:15).

 

[TruthDefender]

Well, I think it is silly to view facts as theories, but we do need to discern the difference between them,
which is why I use the adjective "hard" fact as opposed to unproven or debatable theories, such as evoludtion

And it’s equally silly to call some of those “Theories” facts, when they’re nothing more than silly theories; for the cause in pushing agendas.

 

[TruthDefender]

This is the kind that I call a false religion or science so called....I Timothy 6:20

The devil has his hand in every area of study. Science has turned into an idol in the western nations, so much money goes towards the search for alternatives to God.

True science, as you pointed out, follows an orderly search for knowledge and acknowledges the rules God has established in the physical realm.

I agree with your statement, however I believe that verse is referring to His word; Timothy was warned about straying from God’s word into another alternative gospel.

 

[rewriter]

Yup. Science, research, and data can be true, but it can also be biased, political propaganda, manipulated, driven by financial gain, negated and proven false by new discoveries... the list is endless. Imperfect humans will produce imperfect scientific results.

Science has it's place and can benefit us, but it can also do great damage.

As can supposedly bible-based Christianity. Done correctly both benefit humanity as a whole, done wrong neither serves anything but a cult.

 

[rewriter]

And it’s equally silly to call some of those “Theories” facts, when they’re nothing more than silly theories; for the cause in pushing agendas.

Do you understand how science uses the term "theory" or are you ignorant on that subject? If you know then you are intentionally misusing it, aka deliberately being deceitful or bearing false witness, if you are ignorant, perhaps you should keep quiet until you learn more.