Calvinism is Gospel !

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The point is, if we discard truth because of the behavior of the messenger, we will have little truth. Further, if one does so for some but not others, one is being hypocritical.

How do you know Calvin never repented?

What is grace?

History reveals the fact he did not apply forgiveness to others as he did to himself. After all, he was 'chosen'. Thank God, THANK GOD, we know that Jesus did not die for Calvinists or Protestants or the Reformed, Baptists etc etc.

THERE IS NO QUESTION that Calvin imposed upon the Bible certain erroneous interpretations from his Roman Catholic background. Many leading Calvinists agree that the writings of Augustine were the actual source of most of what is known as Calvinism today. Calvinists David Steele and Curtis Thomas point out that “The basic doctrines of the Calvinistic position had been vigorously defended by Augustine against Pelagius during the fifth century.

Yeah, that is a cumbersome article, but actual discernment and the ability to make sure of your own salvation, is derived through the Berean way of study and not the Sunday am short speech from the pulpit.

In other words, do you really know or are you satisfied with building on the foundation of what someone else said about the Christ who once and for all, died for all and lives forever to make intercession for those who desire Him.
 
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What I find so interesting is how the "Reformed" web sites like to try to rehabilitate his character by leaving out the important details,

Good web site. (y)
Yeah it’s a good article. I’m not sure the writer or am I promoting it. Digging deeper into it. I currently am going to a a southern Baptist church and I have felt so depressed this past two years.
 
First, I'm not a Calvinist.
Second, I haven't argued for any tenets of Calvinism, though I believe them to be accurate in the main.
Third, my point was simply that it is hypocritical to not believe God can use one egregious sinner to reveal truth but not another.
Fourth, I believe each individual is responsible for their own actions.
Fifth, I have never stated that God forces anyone to be saved.
Sixth, this is a public forum. I'm free to express my views. Are you saying you are taking away my liberty to give expression to my views?

Sometimes it's better to purge one's own eye before practicing optometry.

Oh let's see now.....you do not argue for any tenents of Calvinsim even though you believe them to be accurate...with the caveat of 'in the main'. Sounds like I believe in TULIP but with the scent of a rose.

David was chosen by God, yet he did have a very serious weakness. Did God choose Calvin to dissemble the gospel to us?

Apparently I have hit a nerve yet that is no reason to snark at me. Are we discussing Calvin/Calvinism or personalities? I think you might be confused if you think the latter. Try to be aware of agreeing with Calvinsim but then picking parts you think might offend others and choosing to distance yourself from them.

You, brought up David as a sinner, yet the Bible clearly defines the fact that if you believe Christ died for you, then you believe you are no better than David since any sin separates you from God
 
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Yeah it’s a good article. I’m not sure the writer or am I promoting it. Digging deeper into it. I currently am going to a a southern Baptist church and I have felt so depressed this past two years.

Yes that page you linked is fine, not sure about some of the other stuff though.

If they are preaching anything to do with the so called "doctrines of grace" that is probably why, normal Christians tend not do well under those teachings... so very depressing!!
The southern Baptist has been infiltrated and information regarding this is available on the internet.
Maybe there is a different non "Reformed" church around?
 
History reveals the fact he did not apply forgiveness to others as he did to himself. After all, he was 'chosen'. Thank God, THANK GOD, we know that Jesus did not die for Calvinists or Protestants or the Reformed, Baptists etc etc.

THERE IS NO QUESTION that Calvin imposed upon the Bible certain erroneous interpretations from his Roman Catholic background. Many leading Calvinists agree that the writings of Augustine were the actual source of most of what is known as Calvinism today. Calvinists David Steele and Curtis Thomas point out that “The basic doctrines of the Calvinistic position had been vigorously defended by Augustine against Pelagius during the fifth century.

Yeah, that is a cumbersome article, but actual discernment and the ability to make sure of your own salvation, is derived through the Berean way of study and not the Sunday am short speech from the pulpit.

In other words, do you really know or are you satisfied with building on the foundation of what someone else said about the Christ who once and for all, died for all and lives forever to make intercession for those who desire Him.
You're not paying attention. I'm not a follower of Calvin; I'm a follower of Christ. I'm simply pointing out hypocrisy.

Grace and peace.
 
Yes, just awful that he wanted to uphold the law.

God also supports the death sentence... how do you feel about that?
Your reply does not justify Calvin and John Calvin's disregard for forgiving his enemies.

John Calvin did not love his enemies and like Augustine they both agreed that heretics, must be punished.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
 
Is truth found only in scripture?

The arguments people are employing are not from scripture, but historical accounts. Can these be trusted? Are they true? Should those making such arguments apologize and retract their statements?

Here we go again, changing the subject. Not interested in your fake arguments. Fact remains, Calvins' word is not by what we measure truth, scripture is. David and Moses wrote scripture, Calvin did not.

Sometimes I think the Reformed elevate Calvin almost as much as the Roman Catholics elevate Mary.
 
Is truth found only in scripture?

The arguments people are employing are not from scripture, but historical accounts. Can these be trusted? Are they true? Should those making such arguments apologize and retract their statements?

Skating very close to the gnoticism Calvin embraced. So, enlighten us. From whence cometh your truth? If not scripture, then it is only your truth and the rest of us can indeed go in peace.
Sometimes it's better to purge one's own eye before practicing optometry.
 
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Yes, just awful that he wanted to uphold the law.

God also supports the death sentence... how do you feel about that?
Thank you affirming publicly that you agree with laws that say theological opponents must be executed.

God supports the death penalty for holding doctrinal opinions?

Your dragon and unicorn occult religion is nothing like what is found in the New Testament,
 
Here we go again, changing the subject. Not interested in your fake arguments. Fact remains, Calvins' word is not by what we measure truth, scripture is. David and Moses wrote scripture, Calvin did not.

Sometimes I think the Reformed elevate Calvin almost as much as the Roman Catholics elevate Mary.
You changed the subject. I haven't said anything about whether what Calvin says is truth or not. I've simply pointed out the hypocrisy of saying a man cannot be used of God to reveal truth if he has committed egregious sin when one already accepts that God has done so.
 
So, while there isn't a single definitive count, it's fair to say that the New Testament repeatedly presents faith in Jesus Christ as central to receiving salvation,

Hmmm. Okay, so if a man-produced faith is "central" to becoming saved, then that makes man into his own savior, with Christ only a salvation functionary instead of THE Savior. Is that what you're saying?
 
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Thank you affirming publicly that you agree with laws that say theological opponents must be executed.

God supports the death penalty for holding doctrinal opinions?

Your dragon and unicorn occult religion is nothing like what is found in the New Testament,
Thank you for showing us all what a liar you are.
 
I wonder what it is like to be so indoctrinated at such a level that they cannot see what is plainly obvious.
Jesus spoke many times about people who could not see the truth, even when it was right in front of them. His explanation was not that they lacked intelligence, but that their hearts had become hardened, they trusted human traditions, or they were unwilling to accept His words. Here are some of His clearest teachings.

John 8:43-47
Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


In Matthew 13:13-15 Jesus certainly connects spiritual understanding with a willingness to hear and receive God's word;
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand... For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed...

The problem begins with the heart. Mark 7:6-9
This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men... Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.


They know Scripture, yet still reject the One to whom Scripture pointed.Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both shall fall into a pit.


this is what intend to do ,I tried, they will not listen, im out if this thread.
 
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On the surface, you may think the meanings are clear, but that's a trap that many fall into when reading scripture. Their underlying spiritual intentions must be found in order to come to correct interpretations - even those "clear" verses spoken by Jesus. If Jesus Himself in John 6:63 said His words are spirit, then without question they can only be resolved by spiritual evaluation - to compare scripture with scripture- and not Just by a natural, flat reading of what seems obvious.

[1Co 2:13-14 ASV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual [words].
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.

[Jhn 6:63 ASV] 63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

[2Pe 3:16 KJV] 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Heb 5:12-14 KJV]
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
The Holy spirit, guides God's people to the truth. you should know this
 
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The Holy spirit, guides God's people to the truth. you should know this

guides by comparing spiritual things with spiritual within Scripture.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[1Co 2:14 ASV] 14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
 
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Yes that page you linked is fine, not sure about some of the other stuff though.

If they are preaching anything to do with the so called "doctrines of grace" that is probably why, normal Christians tend not do well under those teachings... so very depressing!!
The southern Baptist has been infiltrated and information regarding this is available on the internet.
Maybe there is a different non "Reformed" church around?
Yup! I have been listening to Blessed Hope Chapel with Pastor Joe Shimmel for 7 years but two years ago I decided to join a local church for fellowship.
 
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[
Jesus spoke many times about people who could not see the truth, even when it was right in front of them. His explanation was not that they lacked intelligence, but that their hearts had become hardened, they trusted human traditions, or they were unwilling to accept His words. Here are some of His clearest teachings.

John 8:43-47
Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


In Matthew 13:13-15 Jesus certainly connects spiritual understanding with a willingness to hear and receive God's word;
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because seeing they see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand... For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed...

The problem begins with the heart. Mark 7:6-9
This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men... Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.


They know Scripture, yet still reject the One to whom Scripture pointed.Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both shall fall into a pit.


this is what intend to do ,I tried, they will not listen, im out if this thread.

Yes you have captured it well.
They really do not understand scripture at all ... the entire Bible is read through the lens of how God enabled/(regenerated before faith) them and selected them so they could believe.
 

A Defense of Calvinism as the Gospel​


Prof. David J. Engelsma

The term "Calvinism" is not the name by which we Calvinists prefer to have our faith called; nor do we prefer to call ourselves "Calvinists." Calvin was the name of a man, a great servant of God, John Calvin. He was one of the Reformers by whom the Holy Spirit reformed the Church in the 16th century. To call ourselves "Calvinists" and our faith "Calvinism" leaves the impression that we follow a man and that these beliefs are the invention of a man. In fact, these terms originally were terms of derision used by our enemies, as were also the names "Christian" and "Protestant." Therefore, from the very beginning, Calvinists called themselves "Reformed" or "Presbyterian." Thus, they deliberately distinguished themselves from the other great branch of the Protestant Reformation, the Lutheran Church, which did call itself by the name of a man (contrary to the wishes of Luther himself).

Nevertheless, "Calvinism" and "Calvinist" are useful terms, today. They are widely known, even though that be, in part, through the attack upon, and reproach of, Calvinism by its enemies. Also, the name "Calvinist" is embraced by persons and churches who are not Reformed or Presbyterian but who confess those tenets of Calvinism which they call "the doctrines of grace." "Calvinism" has come to stand for certain doctrines, a certain system of truth. We have no objection to calling these doctrines "Calvinism" as long as two things are clearly understood. First, it must be understood that not the man, John Calvin, but Holy Scripture is the source of them. Second, it must be understood that we who embrace these truths are not disciples of a man, Calvin, but are concerned exclusively to follow God's eternal Son in our flesh, Jesus Christ, exactly by confessing these doctrines.

There are different ways of viewing Calvinism. Some have discovered political implications in Calvinism, e.g., strong opposition to every form of tyranny. Others have found Calvinism important for economics. Max Weber thought to trace the spirit of capitalism to Calvinism, indeed, to Calvinism's doctrine of double predestination. We could examine Calvinism as a total world-and-life-view. It is more, much more, than a set of doctrines, and certainly much more than five points of doctrine. Like humanism or Marxism, Calvinism is a world-and-life-view with which a man takes a stand in every area of human life. Also, Calvinism involves one with the Church, the instituted Church, and is not only the personal beliefs of the individual; it is through and through ecclesiastical. With the early Church, Calvinism fervently holds that "outside the Church is no salvation."

At its heart, however, Calvinism is theology, true religion; and this means doctrine. This is how we will be viewing Calvinism, here. We limit ourselves to a consideration of Calvinism as the Gospel.

Calvinism is the Gospel. Its outstanding doctrines are simply the truths that make up the Gospel. Departure from Calvinism, therefore, is apostasy from the Gospel of God's grace in Christ. Our defence of Calvinism, then, will proceed as follows. First, we will show that Calvinism is the Gospel. This is necessary because of its detractors, who criticize it as a perversion of the Gospel. Second, we will defend it as the Gospel. In doing this, we carry out the calling that every believer has from God. Paul wrote that he was "set for the defence of the Gospel" (Philippians 1:17). I Peter 3:15 calls every believer to give an answer, an "apology" or defence, to everyone who asks us a reason for the hope that is in us. As the name indicates, Calvinism is a certain teaching associated with John Calvin; it refers to biblical doctrines that he propounded.

Calvin was a Frenchman, born in 1509 and died at 55 in 1564, who lived during the Reformation of the Church, a contemporary of Martin Luther. He was converted from Roman Catholicism early in his life, "by a sudden conversion," he tells us in his preface to his commentary on the Psalms, "since I was too obstinately devoted to the superstitions of Popery to be easily extricated from so profound an abyss of mire," and laboured on behalf of the Protestant Faith all the rest of his life. He lived and worked in Geneva, Switzerland as a pastor and theologian. His labour was prodigious. He preached almost daily; did an immense pastoral work; carried on a massive correspondence; and wrote commentaries, tracts, and other theological works. He is remembered especially for his great work on Christian theology, Institutes of the Christian Religion (which still exercises great influence, which every professing Protestant could profitably read and which every critic of Calvinism ought to have studied, if he wishes to be taken seriously), and for his commentaries on almost every book of the Bible. Calvin's Protestant contemporaries recognized his outstanding gifts, especially in theology and exposition of Scripture. They referred to him simply as "the Theologian."

Calvin's influence in all the world, already during his lifetime and ever afterwards, was tremendous. Luther, of course, stands alone, as the founder of the Protestant Reformation. But Calvin, benefiting from Luther, outstripped even Luther in influencing the Church of Christ in all the world.

In the history of the Church, Calvinism is the name for the faith of the Reformed and Presbyterian branch of the Protestant Reformation. These Churches were called "Reformed" in Germany, France, Switzerland and the Netherlands. In England, Scotland and the north of Ireland, they were called "Presbyterian." This faith was early expressed in written confessions, or creeds. Among the confessions of the Reformed Churches are the Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession of Faith and the Canons of Dordt. The great Presbyterian creeds are the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Westminster Catechisms. All of these confessions are in essential agreement.

The Reformed and Presbyterian Churches insisted that the teaching embodied in these creeds, that which is now called Calvinism, was the revelation of God in Holy Scripture. Calvinism bases itself on Scripture. It holds fully the Protestant principle of sola scriptura (Scripture alone). The doctrine of Scripture is the very foundation of Calvinism. It is a mistake, therefore, to define Calvinism apart from its belief concerning Scripture.

The Bible is the only authority in and over the Church. It is this because it is the inspired Word of God, as II Timothy 3:16 claims: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." As such, Scripture is the "infallible rule" (Belgic Confession 7). It may not be ignored, questioned or subjected to criticism, but must be received, believed and obeyed. This is vital for Calvinism because Calvinism teaches many things about which man complains, "These are hard sayings, who can hear them?" For Calvinism, the question is not, "will men in the 20th century like these things?" But the question is, "Does the Word of God say so?"

Calvinism is concerned to proclaim the Scriptures. The preaching of Scripture, both within the Church and outside the Church, is the central interest of Calvinism. It is false to conceive of Calvinism as a theoretical, abstruse science carried on by heady intellectuals in ivory towers. With the entire Reformation, it wanted, and wants today, to preach the Gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes.

Calvinism, then, can rightly be viewed as certain basic doctrines, the so-called "five points of Calvinism." But even here, a word of caution is in order. Historically, it is something of a misnomer to call these doctrines "Calvinism." On these doctrines, there was no difference between Luther and Calvin. These two leading Reformers were in agreement in their teaching on the doctrines of predestination, the depravity of the fallen man and justification by faith alone. Indeed, almost without exception, all of the Reformers embraced what we now call "Calvinism." Besides, the "five points of Calvinism," as five particular doctrines that distinguish Calvinism, originated after Calvin's death. They were formulated by a Synod of Reformed Churches in the Netherlands, in 1618-l619, the Synod of Dordt, in response to an attack on these five doctrines by a group within the Reformed Churches that were known as the Remonstrants or Arminians. This Synod set forth, confessed, explained and defended these five truths in the Canons of the Synod of Dordt. But it was Calvin who developed these truths, systematically and fully; and therefore, they came to be called by his name.
John Calvin is not the gospel. He would have rejected such a claim.
 
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