Andy Stanley on Married/Divorced vs Sodomite Dude Serving
Is there a moral high ground here? What is the biblical response...or does that matter?
(6 minutes)Is there a moral high ground here? What is the biblical response...or does that matter?
So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?
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what is there to forgive? If you are going to Speak on God's behalf should your message reflect what the bible has to say?
it's quite simple to understand how people become gay, lesbian, homosexual, etc. the devil knows all of our weaknesses & he is involved in generational strongholds & sins. he attacks people in the womb even. probably, everyone on earth knows someone who was weak in that behavior, succumbed to the devil's temptations, & became that way. too, people want to look up to someone because they are not getting any attention in any way, so they model themselves after sin.
I had written the following:
“The Bible usage of ‘fornicator’ and ‘fornication’ when the genders are indicated, is always opposite sex.”
Drich, you told us that I was wrong, but what does the KJV usage show? The first time “fornication” is used in the NT is:
“But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” (Matt 5:32, KJV) *Man and wife, male and female; opposite sex.
The parallel passage
“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” (Matt 19:9, KJV) *Man and wife, male and female; opposite sex.
“It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.” (1Cor 5:1, KJV) *Again opposite sex
“Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” (1Cor 7:2, KJV) *Again opposite sex
The Greek G4205 πόρνος pornos Is translated “fornicators” 5 times in the KJV, 5 times “whoremongers”, 5 times. This word is used in both 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10 apart from the male to male sin, arsenokoites. This word G4205 πόρνος pornos is not in a context that shows the genders involved.
In the OT, “fornicator” is not found and “fornication” is used 5 times “(figuratively) to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Yahweh).” This same Hebrew word H2181 זָנָה zanah is also translated, as in Strong’s Dictionary:
“[a primitive root (highly-fed and therefore wanton)]
KJV: (cause to) commit fornication, X continually, X great, (be an, play the) harlot, (cause to be, play the) whore, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.”
I’ve traced the English and the Greek & Hebrew of the words. Can anyone find the words read in context used of Male to Male sin, anything other than M-F?
When someone goes into such linguistic gymnastics trying to disprove the clear facts of scripture, they are highly suspect in any of their crazy ideas about biblical statements. This is why I do not always reply directly because if you try to answer all of the nonsense some can come up with, the 24-hours is inadequate. Using Deut. 23:17-18 trying to deny plain biblical facts is nuts! Beware when someone spends so much space trying to deny plain biblical facts.
Remember all of the 'biz' you gave about using the oldest most authentic definition? The same thing applies here. The NT uses the precedent set by the OT laws to frame out how this old law applies under the NEW covenant as per Jesus' sermon on the Mt. The laws concerning marriage Fornication/adultery defiantly carry over.
Meaning: It is irrelevant when the first time fornication is used in the NT, as the NT relies completely on the OC law to establish the sin nature of fornication.
If the NT uses the OT Law to establish that fornication/Adultery is wrong, then it is to the OT that we look how the word for fornication is used.
That is pure ignorant nonsense! "Fornication" is used 5 times in the KJV OT, but the meaning is not literal sexual conduct, but " Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols." 1828 Webster's
So you are going to define NT words by the OT usage. Using the Greek OT, the one most quoted by Jesus and the Apostles check out the description of the "rape" and see what Greek is used there for love! -
"Then Amnon hated her with very great hatred; for the hatred with which he hated her was greater than the love(agape) with which he had loved her, for the last wickedness was greater than the first: and Amnon said to her, Rise, and be gone." (2Sam 13:15, LXXE)
So, you are going to use the OT Greek to define the NT Greek? Was Amnon's "agape love" what we in the NT call "agape love"?
So you are not going to address the elephant in the room that ends your argument?
here it is again:
Well, in deut 23: 18 God commanded "You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both. "
Again:
The hebrew word for prostitute is
זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw';
While it can be translated prostitute the S-A-M-E Word is used for FORNICATOR. So wait... didn't you say when ever gender is mention the fornicating couple is always of the opposite sex?
But Here in deut 23:18 MALE Prostitutes are specifically being identified. These male prostitutes did not exclusively service women, (Not saying they couldn't) But as a rule women did not have independent wealth outside of the House hold her husband or Father provided for. (No money to spend on a prostitute) Then the society itself would not allow a promiscuous/adulterous woman to sleep around on her husband. (A promiscuous woman was to be stoned to death.)
This only leaves one gender visiting male FORNICATORS/Prostitutes.. Meaning the word Zanah/FORNICATOR was used to describe Gay men having gay sex. This one verse undermines everything you claimed.
If you did stay with the biblical meaning you would be bound to use the word fornication and adultery exclusively to represent all sexual sin. IDK if you noticed or not, but there are no other words in the OT or NT that describe individual sexual perversions. There was no word for Beastuality, Incest, Homosexuality, prostitution etc etc.. EVERYTHING Fell under fornication, or Adultry.
Brown-Driver-Briggs זָנָה
zânâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 105 - zânâh translated “fornication” just 3 times, out of 15 English words used in the KVJ OT. What are the 3 times?
fornication, 3
2Ch 21:11, Isa 23:17, Eze 16:26
2 Ch 21:11 John Gill “and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication; that is, idolatry, drawing them by his own example to worship Baal,”
Isa 23:17 M. Poole “Shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world; shall trade promiscuously with people of all sorts of nations, as harlots entertain all comers.”
Eze 16:26 M. Henry “ they committed fornication with the Egyptians their neighbours, not only by joining with them in their idolatries, but by entering into leagues and alliances with them, and depending upon them for help in their straits, which was an adulterous departure from God.”
My statement stands, anywhere "fornication" is used in the Bible where the genders are indicated, it is always male with female, never male with male! Nowhere can the word "fornication" in the Bible ever be shown to mean male with male sex.
Again, in deut 23: 18 God commanded "You must not bring the earnings of a female prostitute or of a male prostitute into the house of the Lord your God to pay any vow, because the Lord your God detests them both. "
Again:
The hebrew word for prostitute is
זָנָה zânâh, zaw-naw';
While it can be translated prostitute the S-A-M-E Word is used for FORNICATOR. So wait... didn't you say when ever gender is mention the fornicating couple is always of the opposite sex?
But Here in deut 23:18 MALE Prostitutes are specifically being identified. These male prostitutes did not exclusively service women, (Not saying they couldn't) But as a rule women did not have independent wealth outside of the House hold her husband or Father provided for. (No money to spend on a prostitute) Then the society itself would not allow a promiscuous/adulterous woman to sleep around on her husband. (A promiscuous woman was to be stoned to death.)
This only leaves one gender visiting male FORNICATORS/Prostitutes.. Meaning the word Zanah/FORNICATOR was used to describe Gay men having gay sex. This one verse undermines everything you claimed.
If you did stay with the biblical meaning you would be bound to use the word fornication and adultery exclusively to represent all sexual sin. IDK if you noticed or not, but there are no other words in the OT or NT that describe individual sexual perversions. There was no word for Beastuality, Incest, Homosexuality, prostitution etc etc.. EVERYTHING Fell under fornication, or Adultry.
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TruthDefender
Guest
God gave them over to debased mind:
“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;”
Romans 1:24-28 NKJV
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TruthDefender
Guest
God utterly destroyed those 2 cities with fire and brimstone. You can supposedly see a charred area from the satellite view.
Apparently, God wasn’t very happy with their wickedness!
T
TruthDefender
Guest
We can judge with righteous judgment, as long as we ourselves do not do the same things. Otherwise, how else will others know whether, or not something is good or bad? Are you not judging, when you say something?
T
TruthDefender
Guest
You need to read Romans 1; it’s basic, and pretty clear!!If instead of "who HAD BEEN homosexuals" you had written 'who HAD BEEN sodomites", I would agree 100%. But "homosexual" is not a synonym for "sodomite". "Homosexual" was coined about 1869 in Germany, coming into English about 1900. Neither the OT or NT has a Hebrew or Greek word equivalent to "homosexual".
Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible, Copyright 2000
"The terms 'homosexuality' and 'homosexual' are coinages of the 19th century C.E. and have no equivalent in ancient Hebrew or Greek. It is debatable whether the modern idea of homosexuality (an erotic attraction focused only or primarily on persons of the same gender) existed at all in antiquity. The Bible does not appear to say anything directly about homosexuality in this modern sense of the term, but a few passages do refer to same-gender genital acts." page 602
From Principles of Interpretation:
"RULE :—If a translation be used, it must be an exact equivalent of the original, or the difference must be noted by the interpreter."
Your the first to mention that other the than myselfSatan has recently tried to steal God's symbolfor his own
. He's such a loser who has to steal what God has made and then tries to turn it into a pretty symbol representing his group of disgusting sins.
I notice it Around 1999. I did post about it once and want to reclaim the gift rainbow promise! . Just like sports teams having to return The native American Indians names like warrior red skins etc and as you all know the names are changed pretty sure a judges order?
I can't support it and The burden put on the whole Nation to feed the fire by giving into it and & thats the laws etc. I guess I can turn off the love .But Gods love stays.
is I suppose till one totally Rejects Him thats on them Alone
not my thing to talk about I know it a big battle
By a natural to be unnatural and to them its natural i have recently seen it thrown around as a Race Card
not hearsay except it was a card try play me, that I was clueless and try turn a blame of shame on me lol. for something because of what they are .
That's right !
I visited a church and shared a letter to thank a member for something. Anyhow, it featured Noah's Ark with a bunch of animals and a rainbow in the letterhead. The guy rebuked me and said it looked queer and represented the sodomites. I asked him if he ever read the Bible? You don't have to read far before you see what that represents. I used it as a teaching moment, but it wasn't well received. Others in the church were like that too including the pastor. He finally admitted that he taught works salvation, so I was talking to a bunch of church going heathens who wouldn't understand basics.
Moral of the story I learned that we should never let heathens direct our decisions. We belong to the Lord and should still look at His bow in the sky as His gracious promise to never destroy the world by water again.
I have a
that rainbow didn't stay on long lol.
I had a beetle bug convertible made up magnetic flowers peace stuff and of course the rainbow
that rainbow didn't stay on long lol.
I remember those Volkswagons. My Dad had one. It was a cool little car. Ours was tan and an old original. When there were other passengers I had to ride in the little compartment under the back window.I have a
I had a beetle bug convertible made up magnetic flowers peace stuff and of course the rainbow
There is no such thing as a non-elect. The Bible says it is not God’s will that any should perish. Jesus says,”Whosoever will, let him come.” God gives us our own will hoping we will choose Him, otherwise it would make a mockery of God and life if we were all pre-programmed to choose Him. He chose each one of us but we also have a choice to trust Him or reject Him.
What if they were abused as children and need healing and deliverance. I don’t see everyone judging adulterers, porn-watchers etc. but there will be even more of them than homosexuals and they may not have as valid a reason for their sin. Let us be wise to those outside of the faith and stop judging people. We can judge what is a right or wrong act, according to the Word of God, but remember He loved us that much He died for us whilst we were yet sinners. Many people repent of homosexuality and get set free from it. Don’t put a stumbling block in their way, God loves them too. He wants them to come to Him and receive His love, kindness and forgiveness. There is much rejoicing in Heaven over 1 precious sinner who repents. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. All sin is terrible and destructive but let us have some wisdom here. These souls are people’s children and they matter to God a lot, and He has answers for them and understanding and love and power to overcome, for His purposes and glory in their lives.