Eve did not sin by eating of the tree.

[GWH]

The snake part was the temptation. Eating of the fruit was the sin. I believe that the bible says that temptation in itself is not sinful, but it would be wise to avoid it less you acted on it and then sinned. I don't remember either Adam or Eve questioning God, but I could be wrong.

James 1:15 indicates that sin occurs when temptation becomes an evil desire before it becomes an evil deed,
and Genesis 3:6 illustrates that this was true of A&E, so awareness of this truth should enable souls to nip sin in the bud instead of allowing it to be born/done.

Applying our God-given logic, we can see that it is right/wise to question God about whatever contradicts His Word.
Such questioning of God signifies faith in the Lord.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

As a lifelong truthseeker whose motto is "Love to learn and learn to love",
I was pleased to be reminded of 2Thes. 2:10 recently, which I urge everyone to apply to themselves along with my motto.

when you are not in agreement with another believer concerning what is written in God's Word, it is good to discuss before rushing to judgment and claiming another believer speaks with "all deceivableness of unrighteousness" ... that he or she is perishing ... that he or she has not received the "love of the truth" ... just sayin' ...

Regarding Gen. 3:6-7, I am amazed that folks reject the beautiful moral/truth it contains: All humanity has equally sinned and
needs divine salvation (Rom. 3:23, 6:23).
Even Paul appeared to miss this moral where he blamed only Eve, but elsewhere he blamed Adam also, so he wrote Gal. 3:28.

I am amazed that you believe I do not believe "all humanity has equally sinned and needs divine salvation" ... that I blamed "only Eve".

I agree with what is written in Scripture ... Eve was deceived by satan and transgressed what is written in Genesis 2:17 ... that Adam was not deceived by satan and he ate of the tree.

When Adam and Eve sinned, all of creation was affected according to Romans 8:22 ... For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

I have been happily married to the Lord from childhood and to my wife since the Lord answered my prayer in 1968
that I would meet my soulmate because I was so shy I hated dating.

what a blessing!!!

I believe Adam loved Eve, his wife. That is why I do not believe he was with her when satan deceived her (that and the fact that satan works on folks when they are off by themselves ... thinking of the temptation of the Lord Jesus Christ).

But my reason for asking is that I believe you would not stand by and watch your beloved wife engage in behavior that is not pleasing to God without saying one single word of warning to her.

And you?

I was married to my husband for 38 years before he passed in 2014.

I was a senior in high school and he was in his first year of college when we started dating in 1973. We were good best friends from our first date until he passed. God blessed us mightily and I am thankful to God for the time He gave us together.

I know my husband would have said something.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Applying our God-given logic, we can see that it is right/wise to question God about whatever contradicts His Word.
Such questioning of God signifies faith in the Lord.

When the devil tempted the Lord Jesus Christ, His response was "it is written". Such a great example for us to follow.

.

 

[GWH]

when you are not in agreement with another believer concerning what is written in God's Word, it is good to discuss before rushing to judgment and claiming another believer speaks with "all deceivableness of unrighteousness" ... that he or she is perishing ... that he or she has not received the "love of the truth" ... just sayin' ...





I am amazed that you believe I do not believe "all humanity has equally sinned and needs divine salvation" ... that I blamed "only Eve".

I agree with what is written in Scripture ... Eve was deceived by satan and transgressed what is written in Genesis 2:17 ... that Adam was not deceived by satan and he ate of the tree.

When Adam and Eve sinned, all of creation was affected according to Romans 8:22 ... For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.





what a blessing!!!

I believe Adam loved Eve, his wife. That is why I do not believe he was with her when satan deceived her (that and the fact that satan works on folks when they are off by themselves ... thinking of the temptation of the Lord Jesus Christ).

But my reason for asking is that I believe you would not stand by and watch your beloved wife engage in behavior that is not pleasing to God without saying one single word of warning to her.





I was married to my husband for 38 years before he passed in 2014.

I was a senior in high school and he was in his first year of college when we started dating in 1973. We were good best friends from our first date until he passed. God blessed us mightily and I am thankful to God for the time He gave us together.

I know my husband would have said something.

.

When you said, "I do not believe Adam was with Eve when satan deceived her. If Adam would have been there, he would've done exactly what you believe he should have done. Genesis 3:6 does not state that Adam was with Eve when she ate ... Genesis 3:6 tells us Adam was with Eve when Eve gave him to eat."

I replied, "Why in the world would you want to grasp at straw instead of accepting the plain teaching of Gen. 3:6-7 that A&E sinned together?!" I am still waiting for your answer to that question.

Instead, you replied, "I do not believe Adam ... who sinned against God in order to join his wife in her fallen state ... sat idly by and allowed his wife to be tempted by satan, not saying a single word of warning as she ate of the tree. I'm okay with you not agreeing with what I believe occurred in the situation. Are you okay with me not agreeing with you?"

Then I said, "I agree with what the Scripture says; you are free to believe what you choose (2Thes. 2:10)."

To which you replied, "You believe I speak with "all decievableness of unrighteousness" ? ... that I am perishing ? ... that I have not received the "love of the truth" ? ... because I do not agree with you that Adam was with Eve when she ate ? ... I believe Adam was with Eve when Eve gave to Adam to eat ... but that does not mean Adam was with Eve when satan was deceiving her and she ate.
are you married GWH ?"

I answered with "As a lifelong truthseeker whose motto is "Love to learn and learn to love", I was pleased to be reminded of 2Thes. 2:10 recently, which I urge everyone to apply to themselves along with my motto. Regarding Gen. 3:6-7, I am amazed that folks reject the beautiful moral/truth it contains: All humanity has equally sinned and needs divine salvation (Rom. 3:23, 6:23). Even Paul appeared to miss this moral where he blamed only Eve, but elsewhere he blamed Adam also, so he wrote Gal. 3:28. I have been happily married to the Lord from childhood and to my wife since the Lord answered my prayer in 1968 that I would meet my soulmate because I was so shy I hated dating. And you?"

And just now you poste #222, to which I will reply:

1. You claimed that I rushed to judgment by posting 2Thes. 2:10, but it was GW that did any judging, because I cited it as a source for my motto--which I apply to myself because I think it is a good one, so I encourage others to adopt it also.

2. You accused me of saying I believe you blamed only Eve for sinning, but what I said was that you denied the teaching of Gen. 3:6-7 that A&E sinned together.

3. Re Adam not preventing Eve from sinning: That is part of the point of the passage: They were partners in crime.

4. We were/are best friends and married in 1973. Very sorry that your husband has already passed. Sounds like he was better
than Adam, and yes, I think I am also--because I have learned the lesson taught by A&E as well as the NT.

Have a happy 4th!

 

[Suze]

Can you not just say it does not say that anywhere?

I'm sure most of us imagine how certain things happened

We r allowed to speculate . Could u not just say that it doesn't say anywhere that God told her ?
Speculating does no harm as long as people don't get angry with each other and we can disagree without being nasty .
U may have , or not , noticed that , I haven't said that I believe that Eve didn't sin in eating the fruit . The reason for that is that I'm quite happy to admit I might b wrong and it's not up to me to decide who has or has not sinned , it's up to God Himself . I'm just giving my opinion that's all . Discussions like this r great for provoking us to study things for ourselves and maybe learn something from each other . It's good for us to talk about things and listen to others opinions etc , free speech is massively important , without it we would b living in an environment of control and not of growth and learning .

 

[Magenta]

We r allowed to speculate . Could u not just say that it doesn't say anywhere that God told her ?
Speculating does no harm as long as people don't get angry with each other and we can disagree without being nasty .
U may have , or not , noticed that , I haven't said that I believe that Eve didn't sin in eating the fruit . The reason for that is that I'm quite happy to admit I might b wrong and it's not up to me to decide who has or has not sinned , it's up to God Himself . I'm just giving my opinion that's all . Discussions like this r great for provoking us to study things for ourselves and maybe learn something from each other . It's good for us to talk about things and listen to others opinions etc , free speech is massively important , without it we would b living in an environment of control and not of growth and learning .

Why should I admit to something I never said? I simply asked
a very simple question and it looks like you got very defensive.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1. You claimed that I rushed to judgment by posting 2Thes. 2:10, but it was GW that did any judging, because I cited it as a source for my motto--which I apply to myself because I think it is a good one, so I encourage others to adopt it also.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Do you believe you are of that wicked one? ... that you will perish? ... that you received not the love of the truth? ... that you are not saved?

2. You accused me of saying I believe you blamed only Eve for sinning, but what I said was that you denied the teaching of Gen. 3:6-7 that A&E sinned together.

I agree with what is written in Scripture ... Eve was deceived by satan and transgressed what is written in Genesis 2:17 ... that Adam was not deceived by satan and he ate of the tree.

When Adam and Eve sinned, all of creation was affected according to Romans 8:22 ... For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

3. Re Adam not preventing Eve from sinning: That is part of the point of the passage: They were partners in crime.

While both Eve and Adam ate, they may not have been together when Eve ate.

4. We were/are best friends and married in 1973. Very sorry that your husband has already passed.

me too ... I am comforted by what is written in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Sounds like he was better
than Adam, and yes, I think I am also--because I have learned the lesson taught by A&E as well as the NT.

my husband was not "better than Adam" was at the time God created, formed, breathed the breath of lives into Adam. That was the Adam who was in Eden before he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

You believe Adam was with Eve when she was deceived by satan and ate of the tree.

I do not believe Adam was with her ... Adam was with Eve only when she gave to him to eat. Adam was not deceived by satan. Adam ate.

.

 

[GWH]

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Do you believe you are of that wicked one? ... that you will perish? ... that you received not the love of the truth? ... that you are not saved?





I agree with what is written in Scripture ... Eve was deceived by satan and transgressed what is written in Genesis 2:17 ... that Adam was not deceived by satan and he ate of the tree.

When Adam and Eve sinned, all of creation was affected according to Romans 8:22 ... For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.





While both Eve and Adam ate, they may not have been together when Eve ate.





me too ... I am comforted by what is written in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.





my husband was not "better than Adam" was at the time God created, formed, breathed the breath of lives into Adam. That was the Adam who was in Eden before he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

You believe Adam was with Eve when she was deceived by satan and ate of the tree.

I do not believe Adam was with her ... Adam was with Eve only when she gave to him to eat. Adam was not deceived by satan. Adam ate.

.

Re 2Thes. 2:10, it indicates that we should love truth, and my motto adapts it as "Love to learn, and learn to love."

Re Gen. 3:6-7, it indicates that Adam and Eve sinned together.

Re 1Thes. 4:13-17, what it and 1Cor. 15 indicate is indeed comforting. In fact, the latter passage says that if Christ is not raised,
there is no reason for hope/comfort.

Re Adam when created, Gen. 1 says he was good, not perfect, and the NT indicates we should be better.

Re Adam being with Eve when she sinned, I KNOW that is what Gen. 3 indicates, but I have no idea why you want to disagree.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Re 2Thes. 2:10, it indicates that we should love truth, and my motto adapts it as "Love to learn, and learn to love."

2 Thessalonians 2:10 indicates they "received not the love of the truth".

the word "received" in vs 10 is translated from the Greek word dechomai. According to Thayer's, the word dechomai means

with the accusative of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing; to receive favorably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject​

so the verse is speaking of those who do not receive favorably ... they reject the love of the truth ... I do not believe you are one who does not receive the love of the truth.

Re Gen. 3:6-7, it indicates that Adam and Eve sinned together.

agree Genesis 3:6-7 indicates both Adam and Eve ate of the tree.

agree 1 Timothy 2:14 indicates Eve was deceived and she transgressed.

agree Romans 5:10 indicates sin entered into the world through Adam.

agree Eve was with Adam when Adam ate.

do not agree Adam was with Eve when Eve ate.

Re 1Thes. 4:13-17, what it and 1Cor. 15 indicate is indeed comforting. In fact, the latter passage says that if Christ is not raised,
there is no reason for hope/comfort.

yup.

Re Adam when created, Gen. 1 says he was good, not perfect, and the NT indicates we should be better.

Adam, when created, was created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27).

All descendants of Adam are begotten in the image and likeness of their parents (Genesis 5:3).

Re Adam being with Eve when she sinned, I KNOW that is what Gen. 3 indicates, but I have no idea why you want to disagree.

that you and I are not in agreement as to whether Adam was with Eve when Eve ate does not mean I disagree with what is written in Genesis 3.

.

 

[GWH]

2 Thessalonians 2:10 indicates they "received not the love of the truth".

the word "received" in vs 10 is translated from the Greek word dechomai. According to Thayer's, the word dechomai means

with the accusative of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing; to receive favorably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject​

so the verse is speaking of those who do not receive favorably ... they reject the love of the truth ... I do not believe you are one who does not receive the love of the truth.





agree Genesis 3:6-7 indicates both Adam and Eve ate of the tree.

agree 1 Timothy 2:14 indicates Eve was deceived and she transgressed.

agree Romans 5:10 indicates sin entered into the world through Adam.

agree Eve was with Adam when Adam ate.

do not agree Adam was with Eve when Eve ate.





yup.





Adam, when created, was created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27).

All descendants of Adam are begotten in the image and likeness of their parents (Genesis 5:3).





that you and I are not in agreement as to whether Adam was with Eve when Eve ate does not mean I disagree with what is written in Genesis 3.

.

Well, four agreements out of five possibilities is not too bad. Keep meditating on Gen. 3:6-7 until it sinks in.
Operating via consensus in our marriage it is easy for me to see they sinned together, just as it says.

Descendants of Adam are in the image of both God and their parents.
IMO image refers to what makes mankind higher than animals: God consciousness and moral conscience.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Operating via consensus in our marriage it is easy for me to see they sinned together, just as it says.

there was never a time during the course of your marriage that you sinned without your wife joining you ... or that your wife sinned without you joining her ... so you both did not sin together?

Descendants of Adam are in the image of both God and their parents.
IMO image refers to what makes mankind higher than animals: God consciousness and moral conscience.

right ... however, it's interesting to see when pets (I have dogs) misbehave and they know they've done something they should not have done. Not sure that's the same thing as a "conscience", but it sure is pretty darn funny ... just sayin' ...

.

 

[tourist]

James 1:15 indicates that sin occurs when temptation becomes an evil desire before it becomes an evil deed,
and Genesis 3:6 illustrates that this was true of A&E, so awareness of this truth should enable souls to nip sin in the bud instead of allowing it to be born/done.

Applying our God-given logic, we can see that it is right/wise to question God about whatever contradicts His Word.
Such questioning of God signifies faith in the Lord.

I understand - the temptation may lead to an evil desire. It is the evil desire that becomes a sin in itself. I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[tourist]

there was never a time during the course of your marriage that you sinned without your wife joining you ... or that your wife sinned without you joining her ... so you both did not sin together?





right ... however, it's interesting to see when pets (I have dogs) misbehave and they know they've done something they should not have done. Not sure that's the same thing as a "conscience", but it sure is pretty darn funny ... just sayin' ...

.

I have two cats and they occasionally misbehave. You are right - can be pretty darn funny!

 

[GWH]

there was never a time during the course of your marriage that you sinned without your wife joining you ... or that your wife sinned without you joining her ... so you both did not sin together?





right ... however, it's interesting to see when pets (I have dogs) misbehave and they know they've done something they should not have done. Not sure that's the same thing as a "conscience", but it sure is pretty darn funny ... just sayin' ...

.

Consensus means that we operate per Eph. 5:21, as my parents did for 75 years,
but certainly my wife sins much more than I, because I am not always around to stop her.

Yes, higher animals are able to learn some human laws, which I think is equivalent to two-year-old humans--
before the stage of moral accountability.

 

[GWH]

I understand - the temptation may lead to an evil desire. It is the evil desire that becomes a sin in itself. I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.

Thank God for fellow TSers, from whom we can learn GW, although I do not remember if I learned that insight
from others or via reading GW and connecting dots logically.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I understand - the temptation may lead to an evil desire. It is the evil desire that becomes a sin in itself. I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.

James 1:12-15

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


To "endure temptation" is to bear up under the load. If we remain within the abode of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can bear whatever it is that is enticing us to leave our safe harbor. He helps us endure ... He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin (Heb 4:15).

God warns us that we are drawn away and enticed. looking at the words drawn away and enticed in the Greek, they are hunting terms.

drawn away = Greek exelkó. From Thayer's:

where the metaphor is taken from hunting and fishing: as game is lured from its covert, so man by lust is allured from the safety of self-restraint to sin​

I agree with Thayer's definition except for the "self-restraint" part. I believe we are lured from the safety of abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that we are able to overcome the lusts of our flesh (But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof - Rom 13:14). We are weak ... He is strong.

enticed = Greek deleazó. From HELPS Word-studies:

properly, to bait a hook or set a trap with bait; (figuratively) entice a victim into a moral trap, luring them in through their own selfish impulses. ​

conceived ... I believe that is GWH's point ... when lust "conceives" ... before we act out, there is a point of conception, then we act. @GWH explain further if I do not understand his point correctly.

God warns and warns us ... He tells us exactly how we are drawn away. As we grow and mature spiritually in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are able to recognize the "bait" ... the "trap" ... and our being drawn away occurs less and less frequently. We realize that the bait, the enticement, is not worth leaving our abode in the Lord Jesus Christ.

There's also a verse in Ephesians where we are told the "old man" is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts (Eph 4:22). The lusts deceive us into thinking something is good for us when in all actuality, that which we think is good for us draws us away from the Lord. pretty slick ...

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Consensus means that we operate per Eph. 5:21, as my parents did for 75 years,

yes, my husband and I kept God's Word in the center of our marriage and family life ... such a blessing!

but certainly my wife sins much more than I, because I am not always around to stop her.

I'm sure she agrees 100%!!! ... hahahaha!!!

Yes, higher animals are able to learn some human laws, which I think is equivalent to two-year-old humans--
before the stage of moral accountability.

I think it's funny when they're caught in the act ... mine head straight for the doggy door.

.

 

[GWH]

James 1:12-15

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


To "endure temptation" is to bear up under the load. If we remain within the abode of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can bear whatever it is that is enticing us to leave our safe harbor. He helps us endure ... He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin (Heb 4:15).

God warns us that we are drawn away and enticed. looking at the words drawn away and enticed in the Greek, they are hunting terms.

drawn away = Greek exelkó. From Thayer's:

where the metaphor is taken from hunting and fishing: as game is lured from its covert, so man by lust is allured from the safety of self-restraint to sin​

I agree with Thayer's definition except for the "self-restraint" part. I believe we are lured from the safety of abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that we are able to overcome the lusts of our flesh (But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof - Rom 13:14). We are weak ... He is strong.

enticed = Greek deleazó. From HELPS Word-studies:

properly, to bait a hook or set a trap with bait; (figuratively) entice a victim into a moral trap, luring them in through their own selfish impulses. ​

conceived ... I believe that is GWH's point ... when lust "conceives" ... before we act out, there is a point of conception, then we act. @GWH explain further if I do not understand his point correctly.

God warns and warns us ... He tells us exactly how we are drawn away. As we grow and mature spiritually in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are able to recognize the "bait" ... the "trap" ... and our being drawn away occurs less and less frequently. We realize that the bait, the enticement, is not worth leaving our abode in the Lord Jesus Christ.

There's also a verse in Ephesians where we are told the "old man" is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts (Eph 4:22). The lusts deceive us into thinking something is good for us when in all actuality, that which we think is good for us draws us away from the Lord. pretty slick ...

.b

What you said seems right to me.
Regarding the line between temptation and conception, I have thought of it this way:

We should admire a beautiful flower without wanting to pick its petals.
Wearing a swimsuit on the beach may be appropriate, but not elsewhere.

Where should the line be drawn between "redeeming social value" and "immoral gratuitous sex or violence"?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What you said seems right to me.
Regarding the line between temptation and conception, I have thought of it this way:

We should admire a beautiful flower without wanting to pick its petals.
Wearing a swimsuit on the beach may be appropriate, but not elsewhere.

agree ... and swimsuit is more than a couple of bandaids and string.

Where should the line be drawn between "redeeming social value" and "immoral gratuitous sex or violence"?

that we even have to consider such a thing indicates how far this world has strayed. But we have been warned ... "as in the days of Noe" ... so no shocker. It does hurt my heart, though, when I think of how our behavior is so far removed from what God would have for us.

.

 

[Suze]

Why should I admit to something I never said? I simply asked
a very simple question and it looks like you got very defensive.

I think we r done , I'm not defensive at all but if it makes u feel better to believe so , I'm fine with that , whatever makes u happy .