He favors with Salvation them who are ungodly and enemies.Yes, God wills to favor those who are cheerful givers, who freely repent and reflect His love
over others who resist His will, ignore His salvation and hate His Messiah.
He favors with Salvation them who are ungodly and enemies.Yes, God wills to favor those who are cheerful givers, who freely repent and reflect His love
over others who resist His will, ignore His salvation and hate His Messiah.
Seems like the two concepts are inseparable.So then if our soteriology is wrong our view of God, logically, is also wrong.
Lets look at the first one Ephesians 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:5
It is supposed that adoption is a reference to a person "getting saved", "Ive accepted Christ, Im adopted" , however, lets pop over to Romans 8 verse 23, this is the same writer, Paul, and it defines "adoption" as "the redemption of the body". In other words, a saved person has the promise of adoption, it is a future thing. Something which the believer groans and waits.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Romans 8:23
This is further explained in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,", "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,", "this mortal must put on immortality"
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
We only have the spirit of adoption for now,
"ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." Romans 8:15,
also Galatians 4:5-6 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."
That's a future event, "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:1
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
So predestination is something that happens to you after you are saved, not a master list drawn up before creation.
*"Your argument relies on a clever semantic trick, but it completely falls apart when exposed to Paul’s actual timeline and grammar.
According to the Holy Spirit, Predestination happens BEFORE a sinner is ever called or justified. Your system attempts to put the cart before the horse. God did not wait for man to save himself to then predestine him; God predestined His elect in eternity past, which is the sole reason the Holy Spirit successfully tracks them down, resurrects them, and saves them in time."*
- The Timeline of Ephesians 1: You claim predestination happens after a person is saved. But Paul explicitly anchors the time-stamp of predestination to eternity past. Verse 4 says He chose us 'before the foundation of the world,' and verse 5 uses an aorist participle, 'Having predestinated us unto the adoption.' God drew up the list and determined the destination of His elect before Genesis 1:1.
- The Definition of Adoption: You are confusing the legal decree of adoption with its final physical manifestation. In Scripture, adoption is a finished legal reality in eternity, applied via regeneration in time, which guarantees a physical payout in the future. Galatians 4:6 says, 'And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts.' The Holy Spirit is given to us because we already legally belong to the Father by election. Romans 8:23 simply refers to the final, public manifestation of that adoption—the resurrection of our bodies.
- The Order of Salvation (Romans 8:29–30): In the exact chapter you quoted, Paul lays down an unbreakable, golden chain that completely reverses your theology: 'Whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate... them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified.'
Not at all.You just confirmed the truth of everything Anchorite said.
I think you might want to read my posts more closely .Please realize that Calvinism includes many teachings that are true,
and the only part of it that is heretical/contrary to the Gospel is tulip,
because it views God as hateful and unjust/showing favoritism.
Thus, the only part you need to address in this discussion are those two untruths:
God's hatred and injustice toward the nonelect.
heresyHeresy refers to unorthodox teaching that contradicts the Gospel of salvation.
Yes, RC was heretical until it finally cancelled the Inquisition in 1964.
When you make accusations, you should quote the offensive statement and cite GW indicating it is wrong.
If you do not hate people, why would you affirm a doctrine that indicates God hates the nonelect?!
Divine foreknowledge does not predetermine some souls will be condemned without a chance to be saved.
You see?
I hear what you are saying but Ephesians 2, doesn't read like total depravity. Paul’s emphasis is not on inability but on trajectory—a life shaped by the world, the flesh, and the devil. When he says his readers were “dead,” he immediately explains what that looked like: walking according to the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, living in the passions of the flesh. These are active verbs. They describe people making real choices, pursuing real desires, and participating in a real pattern of life. Nothing in the passage suggests they were metaphysically unable to seek God; rather, they were morally and spiritually aligned with a corrupt system. Paul’s point is that their condition was hopeless without God’s intervention, not that they lacked the capacity to respond. In other words, Ephesians 2 portrays sinners as misaligned rather than incapable—people who needed rescue from a destructive path, not people who were prevented from choosing a different one.Nowhere in Scripture is that statement or definition either made or implied. Paul uses the Greek word nekros —a literal corpse—to describe a person's current, real-time spiritual state on this earth. To turn a dead body into a simple lack of a future promise is a complete invention that is entirely foreign to the text.
Saul,later aka Aposte Paul, held Stephens cloak while he was being stoned to death. Saul's encounter with Jesus on the Damascus road occurred because Saul and his companions were on their way to kill more Apostate Jews .That's why Paul went around trying to have them executed... no
different than what's his name whom they hate and lie about.
Lies are their currency.
What is the Biblical definition of Sin?God is the author of sin," is nowhere found in Scripture. It is a human teaching that contradicts the words of Jesus, the prophets, and the very character of God. The Bible reveals a God who is perfectly holy, righteous, and just. He cannot be the author of the very evil He condemns.
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You. (Psalm 5:4, NKJV)
The LORD is righteous in all His ways, Gracious in all His works. (Psalm 145:17, NKJV)
God repeatedly declares that He hates sin.
These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. (Proverbs 6:16-19, NKJV)
If God authored sin, then He would be creating the very things He declares He hates. Such an idea makes God divided against Himself and contradicts His own holiness.
Jesus revealed where sin comes from.
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man. (Mark 7:21-23, NKJV)
Jesus never said these sins were written into people by God. He plainly taught that they come from within the sinner's own heart.
Jesus also taught that a good source cannot produce evil.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. (Matthew 7:18, NKJV)
If God is perfectly good, then according to Jesus' own words He cannot produce evil fruit. To claim that God authored sin directly contradicts Christ's teaching. A holy God cannot produce unholy works any more than a good tree can produce rotten fruit.
God always places people before a real choice.
I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live. (Deuteronomy 30:19, NKJV)
Joshua declared the same truth.
Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve. (Joshua 24:15, NKJV)
A genuine choice cannot exist if every sin has already been scripted by God before anyone was born.
Even in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were given a command and a choice.
Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat.(Genesis 2:16-17, NKJV)
God warned them of the consequences. He did not make them sin. The serpent tempted them, and they freely chose to disobey.
Lucifer also was not created sinful.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. (Ezekiel 28:15, NKJV)
The Scripture says iniquity was found in him. It does not say God created it in him or scripted his rebellion.
Some argue that because God used sin for His redemptive plan, He must therefore be its author. Scripture teaches exactly the opposite. God is able to bring good out of evil without being the cause of the evil.
Joseph's brothers freely chose to sell him into slavery. Years later Joseph told them,
But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good. (Genesis 50:20, NKJV)
Notice the clear distinction. They intended evil. God brought good from their evil. God did not cause their wickedness.
The greatest example is the crucifixion of Jesus. Wicked men freely chose to reject and kill the Son of God.
Jesus said,
Indeed the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed! (Luke 22:22, NKJV)
God's plan of salvation was certain, yet Judas remained completely responsible for his own betrayal. Jesus did not praise Judas for carrying out a script. He pronounced judgment upon him.
Throughout Scripture, whenever people attempted to shift responsibility for sin onto God, they were rebuked. After eating the forbidden fruit, Adam answered,
The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate. (Genesis 3:12, NKJV)
Adam tried to move the blame toward God by pointing to the woman God had given him. God rejected the excuse and judged Adam for his own disobedience. Israel also blamed God for their own sins.
Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not fair." Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? (Ezekiel 18:25, NKJV)
God declared that His ways are just. The fault was with the people, not with Him. The prophet Ezekiel repeatedly emphasizes that every person is accountable for his own actions.
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20, NKJV)
Jesus likewise held every sinner personally responsible. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.(John 8:24, NKJV)
If God had authored every sin, then holding people responsible for sins He Himself scripted would make His judgments unjust. Yet throughout Scripture God is always declared to be perfectly just. Abraham understood this when he asked,
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? (Genesis 18:25, NKJV). The answer throughout Scripture is always yes.
The Bible also declares, This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5, NKJV) If there is no darkness in God, then darkness cannot originate from Him.
To say that God scripted Lucifer's rebellion, Adam's fall, every lie, every murder, every act of adultery, every theft, every act of idolatry, and every wicked deed ever committed is to accuse God of being the source of the very things He hates and commands us to reject. Such a doctrine overturns God's holiness and makes Him responsible for all evil. Scripture never teaches this.
Instead, the Bible reveals something far more glorious. God created beings capable of genuine love and genuine obedience, and therefore capable of genuine rebellion. Sin entered because created beings freely chose to depart from God's perfect will. Yet God's wisdom is so great and His power so perfect that He can take even the evil choices of rebellious creatures and accomplish His righteous purposes without ever becoming the author of their sin. Evil belongs to the sinner. Judgment belongs to God. Redemption belongs to Christ.
The doctrine that God is the author of sin is not only without biblical support, it strikes at the very heart of God's holy character. Jesus revealed the Father as perfectly good, perfectly righteous, and perfectly just. His words leave no room for the idea that God writes sin into His creation. The Scriptures consistently teach that God warns against sin, hates sin, judges sin, calls sinners to repentance, and sent His Son to save us from sin, not to become its author. That is the testimony of the Scriptures from beginning to end.
@brightfame52 @Cameron143 there is no light in you only darkness, your own words prove it.
MFers!MFers
I believe he edited just after your post.MFers!
I knew your incessant use of abbreviations would get you into trouble one day!
Sin is Rebellion against God, a violation of His commands. It is failure to do what is right according to God, acting apart from faith and trust in Him.What is the Biblical definition of Sin?
He favors with Salvation them who are ungodly and enemies.
Saul,later aka Aposte Paul, held Stephens cloak while he was being stoned to death. Saul's encounter with Jesus on the Damascus road occurred because Saul and his companions were on their way to kill more Apostate Jews .
John Calvin is not on record as personally executing anyone when he was a prosecutor.
In fact in the case of Michael Servitus , Calvin insisted upon beheading, a more humane execution than burning at the stake. But he was overruled.
I've found chronic hatred of a person,idea,or thing,often precludes true facts amending such passion.
Chronic hatred of anything is a character flaw.
171 pages. Round and round it goes.MFers!
I knew your incessant use of abbreviations would get you into trouble one day!
If they are elect they shall be saved ! If Christ Loved them and gave Himself for them, all their sins are forgiven, and they shall be given Faith in Christ and will be in heaven.God loves atheists and heretics, but they won't be in heaven.
until they repent and have a changed heart, they wont enter Heaven that is certain.God loves atheists and heretics, but they won't be in heaven.
In the Bible, Sin is defined as any thought, word, action, or attitude that violates God's law and His perfect, holy character.Sin is Rebellion against God, a violation of His commands. It is failure to do what is right according to God, acting apart from faith and trust in Him.
who are the Elect?If they are elect they shall be saved ! If Christ Loved them and gave Himself for them, all their sins are forgiven, and they shall be given Faith in Christ and will be in heaven.
I tried to show you that in my view, "spiritually dead" doesn't refer to inability; it refers to unwillingness. Unbelief is not a matter of the intellect; it's a matter of the will. People don't believe because they don't want to believe.
A bird with a broken wing cannot fly, even if it desperately wanted to—that’s inability. But a healthy bird that simply refuses to fly is not unable; it’s unwilling. Scripture describes sinners in the second way. The Bible never portrays unbelief as a physical or metaphysical incapacity but as a hardness of heart—a stubborn resistance that must be softened, not an inability that must be overridden. When Paul speaks of people as “dead,” he is describing the seriousness of their condition, not the removal of their responsibility. The call to believe the gospel is meaningful precisely because the problem is unwillingness, not an inability that would make faith impossible.
God the author of sin? what kind of warped mentality besets you? to me this is blasphemy. Man is the author of sin, the commandments were given to prevent sin so we know what not to do, so we know what sin is and NOT DO IT !In the Bible, Sin is defined as any thought, word, action, or attitude that violates God's law and His perfect, holy character.
"For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4 and "sin is not imputed when there is no law" Romans 5
God is the author of Sin because God first is the author of His Holy Law.
Non-compliance, violation of His Holy Law is Sin.
Because God made it so.