I do not understand what your confusion is.
Yes... Jesus died for every single soul that will ever live.
Romans 3:10-11 "There is none righteous, ...who understands, ...who seeks after God, no, not one;
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Yes... Jesus died for every single soul that will ever live.
Are you claiming that the atonement offer is universal, or that the application of that atonement offer is universal? I'm just trying to clarify.
Don't get confused.
Atonement is not automatic universal salvation.
It was universal atonement.
Even the unbeliever's sins will not be held against him.
His sins will not be mentioned at the final judgment.
Instead... The unbeliever will be condemned by means of the record of his works - not sins.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged
according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. Rev 20:12
One work will be looked for and not found, which will be the reason for the unbeliever's condemnation.
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29
Atonement was the means that cleared the way for people to enter into the way for salvation.
For without Atonement? No man could even approach God.
God had to open a way for man to be allowed to contact Him.
That is why Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world!
The Cross was God taking what He had already known in His omniscience.
Omniscience which resided outside of time.
And, then.
At the right time.
Manifested it in time the Cross for all men to see.
Then, after the Cross was on record to be seen?
Man's volition then makes or breaks the outcome.
..............
A mans works from the flesh are his sins. There are no good works from the flesh. It's all sin, hence, there are none good, none righteous, no not one. that's the OT before anyone had the Spirit in them. Anything from the flesh is sin. Every sin ever committed will face God's judgment, either at the cross, or at the white throne judgment.
Yes, they are judges according to their works because their works were sin.
Without Jesus, no man can approach God.
This argument is borrowed from newbie Calvinists and covenant theologians who use it to try to prove that the OT was the same as the NT. That man could be born again in the OT, and their ideas about election being from the foundations of the world. That God randomly picked a few for salvation and leaving the rest to be judged guilty. Covenant people have a disliking for dispensationalists, because it proves their theology to be false. It's lazy theology. But that is all that is required for idolatry. I hope that you're not of that mind set.
First, the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world is speaking of an eternal decree. It does not mean that everything happened at the foundations of the world. You can't pick and chose what happened from the foundations of the world. Saying atonement only. It doesn't work that way. Either God not being bound by time applies to everything already happening, or nothing already happening.
Time sensitive Scripture still applies to us, as does time itself. But if you follow the logic of your theology, I would say first off, throw away your Bible, because that idea makes all time sensitive Scripture meaningless, and since the Bible is mostly about time sensitive Scripture, it's all rendered meaningless. It's basically theological relativism by people who cannot answer Scripture when it comes to defending their understanding of theology. Lets follow the logic...
If the Lamb is slain from the foundations of the world, then that means that Jesus was already born under the Law, and had already lived under the Law as a man in perfect obedience, you know, the Lamb without blemish? But if that's true, then the righteousness of God, which is Jesus living perfectly righteous life under the Law as a man is already established. No need for God incarnate, it happened before the foundations of the world.
No need for Adam, the second Adam cleared the way before the first ever came to be. In fact, why did the OT cover sin when it was already atoned? Why did the OT Priest cleanse himself to enter the holy of holies? Why did the OT believers need a Priest if their sin was already atoned? Why did God live in the Temple in the OT, He could have indwelt believers all along? Why did God pass over the sins already committed so that 'on this day' Jesus might be just and the justifier of those who believe? Why did the OT heroes of faith not get the Promise of the Father, what were they waiting for? None of this was needed. In fact, why believe? Those who were chosen from the foundations of the world already have faith, and are already with the Father.........
Se what I mean?
Works (deeds) are human good
Not the same as sin.
Dead works can not save you.
And, Jesus said there is only one work that will save. To believe on Him.
Besides... no one's sins will be mentioned in the judgment of the unbeliever.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged
according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. Rev 20:12
So how do you know if the works are the result of the Spirit and faith, OR from the flesh?
Works are not sin... the flesh is contaminated by sin. The flesh can't follow righteousness. But the Spirit can.
The Spirit in us = dead flesh
The flesh in us = no Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit and you will not follow the Flesh. Walk in the Spirit and the Fruits will be seen.
Gal 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Romans 14:23b ....for whatever is not from faith is sin.
1 Corinthians 4:7 For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have [that is good, righteous] that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. (Luke 18:19)
John 15:4-5 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing [good].
Romans 14:23b ....for whatever is not from faith is sin.
An unbelievers works are all sin. That's what they are judged for. Even a believer cannot produce good from the flesh, that's why it's called the fruit of the Spirit. This is also why we give God all the glory, because He actually deserves it.
See my post to Genez.
Not sure if it was a type error by you, but the spirit in us that equals dead flesh is spirit, small "s". Capitol "S" suggest that you're speaking of the the Holy Spirit. Should be like this....
The spirit in us = dead flesh
The flesh in us = no Spirit.
Fruit of the Spirit, not the flesh, right?
The contention between me and Genez was what unbelievers are judged by as unbelievers. His idea of the atonement suggests that Jesus already atoned for everyone's sin from the foundations of the world, and that unbelievers are not judged for their sin, rather their works, making a distinction between an unbelievers works and an unbelievers sin. That's not Biblical.
This is the righteousness that we receive by faith that justifies us is what Jesus did.
Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
The righteousness of God, what Jesus did as fully man and fully God, born under the Law, living under the Law and fulfilling it perfectly. That's the righteousness [of God] that is imputed to us when we believe.
Agree?
What many do not understand is that the grace of God is not only imputed righteousness but also imparted righteousness..
By faith we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
But by faith through grace we are also imparted the righteousness of Christ which transforms and changes the character. RENEWED by the power of God in us.
It is sad when people focus exclusively on imputed righteousness.
John 3:16 and Acts 16:31.
We are way too familiar with these verses. These two verses answer the age old questions and settle the debate. Simple. Plain. And 2nd grade comprehension.
But people want to debate the meat, and have never digested the milk.
You kind of walked into the middle of a discussion between me and Genez. I was hoping that eventually you would catch the fact that you were completely missing the point of contention between us. At least I think that you were. It depends on what you believe. The topic was about justification from the OP, and not practical sanctification, which is probably the same as what you're calling imparted righteousness, which is the evidence of salvation, not the merit that earns our justification. By your using the term 'imparted righteousness', I'm guessing that you're Catholic?
Are you claiming that man maintains, thus earns grace by this practical sanctification, or as you call it, imparted righteousness, through the sacraments, beginning with water baptism, usually infant water baptism, and chances are that you'll fall short and need to spend a few zillion years in Purgatory?
Genez is claiming that unbelievers will be judged by their good works, and not sin. Is that what you believe also?
YEP. Without a doubt.
That is why you see the dead going to the LoF..........Because of their DEEDS/GOOD WORKS/EVIL.
Sin is FINISHED and paid for by our Lord Jesus Christ. But not , "I am Good enough and look at all my good deeds."
Matt 7~~~~“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ ;Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Dave? Hmmmmm?
Snatching words out of their context to make it look like you are making a point is weak and poor teaching.
Romans 14:23 is quite specific about what was sin.
Romans 14:10-23?
Have you read it?
If you have?
You either have a bad memory.
Or, should read it for the first time.
For what you did by presenting Romans 14:23b the way you did?
Is sin.
This is a key statement for many of these debates.
Everyone is looking for the overt sins.......Smoking, cussing, drinking, being a jerk and fill in the blank.
The sin you listed is DEVASTATING to a believers life.
Self righteousness makes those who refuse to utilize 1 John 1:9 to become insensitive to their losing the filing of the Spirit.
They may claim that they are confident in the Lord. But these people are always riding on the crest of their emotions and will power. Its like they are competing to win some prize on a TV quiz show.
Devastating.
Sin is easy, Self righteousness Is comatose type stuff. ..........if not trained.
HEB 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil.