Once Saved Always Saved?

[jimmydiggs]

One question!

Why do soe people want to make the LORD a lord and our GOD a god?

Could we try to keep some reverance for my FATHER?

Just a small request.

I think you're talking about how I used a lower case g for the word God in one of my previous posts, and since it offends I will apologize as I do not seek to offend you. I will also try to keep that in mind. normally I do capitalize by when I start typing quickly often I don't go back to fix my mistakes, whether it be spelling, capitalization, grammar, etc etc.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Do not the scriptures teach... Repentance, baptism, and the recieving of the promise (Holy Spirit) in Acts 2:38-39, and Acts 8:12,16 Acts 10:43-48, Acts 19: 1-6

How do these scriptures relate to the modern christian doctrine of repent and confess your sins and turn from them and

Are you asking if baptism, repentence, etc are requirements for salvation?

accept the Lord Jesus into your heart?

I read and hear this from people a lot, but I've never found it in the bible.

 

[Bloodwashed]

Hot Topic, I see! Well I'm not one to argue so I'll just say this.
I am being saved, I am saved, & I will be saved....
Anything else is not Salvation!
In His Love Mark!

Holy Smoke! This is my post back on page 4. Now we are clear up to 19 pages, & some still want to take a little credit for getting themselves into heaven. If you can lose it, I don't see how you can claim to have it. Wouldn't you really have to wait and see? A friend told me once that you could fall away, but he wasn't going to let that happen to himself. Who was he really trusting for salvation? God Bless!! Mark--

 

[Crossfire]

Holy Smoke! This is my post back on page 4. Now we are clear up to 19 pages, & some still want to take a little credit for getting themselves into heaven. If you can lose it, I don't see how you can claim to have it. Wouldn't you really have to wait and see? A friend told me once that you could fall away, but he wasn't going to let that happen to himself. Who was he really trusting for salvation? God Bless!! Mark--

The grace of God is more than just the forgiveness of sin(s) and / or future sin. The authentic grace of God will change you from the inside out. If you do not offer the same grace to others that God has so freely bestowed on you, then there's a very good chance that you may have never experienced God's grace.

While it is possible that some may 'mature' slower than others, anyone who truly understands God's grace knows that we can't go on living in sin and selfishness. The reason being is that if Divine grace truly resides in your heart then, with all of your heart, you will want to live out that grace through your own actions.

A person who has the Divine nature (Holy Spirit) living inside of him or herself won't want to fulfill the desires of the flesh because the desires of the flesh are contrary to the Divine nature.

Mind you, none of us are perfect. We all have stumbled from time to time. However, a true partaker of the grace will know immediately if and when they have stumbled and repent accordingly. However, this is no excuse for continual bad behavior. Continual bad behavior is evidence that the grace of God is not alive their hearts and we should ignore any attempts by the these people to teach others.

Grace is no excuse to sin. If you continue on in sin (plural) then this definitive evidence that the grace of God is not in you. If you sin and you think it's no big deal then it is also definitive evidence that the grace of God is not in you. Because sin violates the very nature of Grace.

As christians we must never make the mistake of reducing God's grace to mean forgives of sin be it past, present or future. Grace is the nature of our entire christian experience and if you are not walking in Grace through your actions then Grace is not in you.

 

[Loved]

I think you're talking about how I used a lower case g for the word God in one of my previous posts, and since it offends I will apologize as I do not seek to offend you. I will also try to keep that in mind. normally I do capitalize by when I start typing quickly often I don't go back to fix my mistakes, whether it be spelling, capitalization, grammar, etc etc.

It was not only you.

I too get in a huury and misspell words and do not always pre-read before I post.

I just think we should try to keep the reverance in His name.

There are many gods ................. but only one GOD.

Sorry if I seemed too legalistic, it is not about the law, it is all about GRACE!!!
______________________________________________

This post has been very educational for me (and hope everyone else),

From this post, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit within me; I conclude (will know for sure when I am in Glory) that Salvation can not be lost!

However, some who claim Salvation are merely trying to talk a skunk into being a rose.

No one except that person and GOD really know the honesty of one's Salvation.

We can only inspect..... if it smells looks, acts, and smells like the world then it is of the world

and vice-versa about a Christian, GOD's work will be evident and not hidden.


GOD Bless,
Nohwoter

Let my LIGHT shine!

 

[Crossfire]

The grace of God is more than just the forgiveness of sin(s) and / or future sin. The authentic grace of God will change you from the inside out. If you do not offer the same grace to others that God has so freely bestowed on you, then there's a very good chance that you may have never experienced God's grace.

While it is possible that some may 'mature' slower than others, anyone who truly understands God's grace knows that we can't go on living in sin and selfishness. The reason being is that if Divine grace truly resides in your heart then, with all of your heart, you will want to live out that grace through your own actions.

A person who has the Divine nature (Holy Spirit) living inside of him or herself won't want to fulfill the desires of the flesh because the desires of the flesh are contrary to the Divine nature.

Mind you, none of us are perfect. We all have stumbled from time to time. However, a true partaker of the grace will know immediately if and when they have stumbled and repent accordingly. However, this is no excuse for continual bad behavior. Continual bad behavior is evidence that the grace of God is not alive their hearts and we should ignore any attempts by the these people to teach others.

Grace is no excuse to sin. If you continue on in sin (plural) then this definitive evidence that the grace of God is not in you. If you sin and you think it's no big deal then it is also definitive evidence that the grace of God is not in you. Because sin violates the very nature of Grace.

As christians we must never make the mistake of reducing God's grace to mean forgives of sin be it past, present or future. Grace is the nature of our entire christian experience and if you are not walking in Grace through your actions then Grace is not in you.

For me, I could care less whether or not you consider a person who has walked away from the grace of God to have forfeited their salvation or if you consider that they were never saved all at all. The truth is that the Grace of God is no longer evident in their hearts and their actions thus they are not saved. You can not be saved in sin.

I say again, sin violates the very nature of Divine Grace.

 

[notIbutChrist]

Originally Posted by Bloodwashed

Hot Topic, I see! Well I'm not one to argue so I'll just say this.
I am being saved, I am saved, & I will be saved....
Anything else is not Salvation!
In His Love Mark!

Can you give me the scripture that says that. I believe it is in there somewhere, but I can't find it

Holy Smoke! This is my post back on page 4. Now we are clear up to 19 pages, & some still want to take a little credit for getting themselves into heaven. If you can lose it, I don't see how you can claim to have it. Wouldn't you really have to wait and see?

True, we aren't really saved until we have endured until the end of those life

A friend told me once that you could fall away, but he wasn't going to let that happen to himself. Who was he really trusting for salvation? God Bless!! Mark--

God of course

 

[jimmydiggs]

True, we aren't really saved until we have endured until the end of those life God of course

You're putting the cart before the horse.


Our perseverence to the end is a RESULT of our having been saved.

 

[Zilla64007]

It is about conversion, but we see eternal security as well (since the two are linked).


All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away


What's it say?

Father gives --- > those given will come ---- > he won't drive them away


So since you can't resist (how can you if you will come when you're given? and he won't drive you awway, how do you plan on getting away)

the two are NOT linked.

salvation and the POSSESSION of salvation are two completely different things.

salvation itself IS eternal, but the possession of it is NOT if we do not continue in faith.

 

[Loved]

You're putting the cart before the horse.


Our perseverence to the end is a RESULT of our having been saved.

AMEN!! Brother D

 

[jimmydiggs]

the two are NOT linked.

salvation and the POSSESSION of salvation are two completely different things.

salvation itself IS eternal, but the possession of it is NOT if we do not continue in faith.

Why did you change your post? You said it was talking about conversion and not salvation, and now that's not what you're saying...



Also, yes, the two are linked, the passage says so.



Salvation and the possession? You'll have to explain how they are different in this context. I am confusd by what you are saying, it sounds like you're saying water and wetness are not mutually inclusive, and that water can indeed be dry.

Hey man, I know you believe we can lose our salvation, but instead of empty rhetoric use some bible verses please. Thank you.


EDIT:

Also, you say salvation is eternal but that we can lose our possession of salvation. So how is it eternal then? I believe it is eternal, certainly. I don't see how you can lose something that is eternal though. That sounds like a contradictin in terms.

 

[Loved]

the two are NOT linked.

salvation and the POSSESSION of salvation are two completely different things.

salvation itself IS eternal, but the possession of it is NOT if we do not continue in faith.

You can not lose what you never had. If you receive the gift of Salvation, you keep it.

The major problem is the Church is not doing their part, teaching the ways of GOD.

A lot of Churches are merely a business and people pay the bills, tell the TRUTH (TRUTH is JESUS is the TRUTH) and you may upset someone and they leave or do not tithe........ heap a lot of sugar on it and you you get the astro-dome full of wallets!!!

---------------------------------

Stand up Christians, stand up for JESUS!!!! Seek GOD while HE can be found!!!!

God Bless,
Nohwoter

 

[Zilla64007]

Hymenaeus, Philetus, and Alexander didn't keep it... they departed from it.

 

[Crossfire]

A lot of Churches are merely a business and people pay the bills, tell the TRUTH (TRUTH is JESUS is the TRUTH) and you may upset someone and they leave or do not tithe........ heap a lot of sugar on it and you you get the astro-dome full of wallets!!!

Or you get teaching that says you can be saved and still live a lifestyle full of sin and corruption.

People like these have no concept of Divine grace.

 

[Zilla64007]

Why did you change your post? You said it was talking about conversion and not salvation, and now that's not what you're saying...



Also, yes, the two are linked, the passage says so.



Salvation and the possession? You'll have to explain how they are different in this context. I am confusd by what you are saying, it sounds like you're saying water and wetness are not mutually inclusive, and that water can indeed be dry.

Hey man, I know you believe we can lose our salvation, but instead of empty rhetoric use some bible verses please. Thank you.


EDIT:

Also, you say salvation is eternal but that we can lose our possession of salvation. So how is it eternal then? I believe it is eternal, certainly. I don't see how you can lose something that is eternal though. That sounds like a contradictin in terms.

well, lets see, John 6:37 says that Christ will not turn away from anyone... and yet 1 Peter 1:5 says we are kept through faith... there'0 one example of the difference

and if we lose something that is eternal;, it does not change the fact that it is eternal... if I lose a DVD, it doesn't change into something else... it's STILL a DVD, no matter if i lost it or not, and the same goes for eternal life... eternal life is eternal life, whether one has possession of it or not

and it's only in Jesus Christ in which we have eternal life, we must continue in Him which gives us eternal life through faith. do you deny 1 Peter 1:5 or Romans 11:20-24?

 

[Loved]

Or you get teaching that says you can be saved and still live a lifestyle full of sin and corruption.

People like these have no concept of Divine grace.

So true!!

There is very little wisdom (fear of GOD) in this day and age.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Hymenaeus, Philetus, and Alexander didn't keep it... they departed from it.

Hymenaeus and Alexander in 1 Timothy 1, are "handed over to satan". This does not mean that Paul takes away their salvation.



18 Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.




He is being put out of the congregation of believers. We see another example of this in 1 Corinthians 5...

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.



In 2 Timothy 2,


14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”


2 Tim 2, we see that "departing from the truth" is that they were preaching something that was false.

 

[jimmydiggs]

well, lets see, John 6:37 says that Christ will not turn away from anyone... and yet 1 Peter 1:5 says we are kept through faith... there'0 one example of the difference

who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

It says we are shielded by God's power through faith.

I don't see how this is going to do anything for Arminianism.

In fact, when you look at the verses surrounding it, it sounds to me like yet again the amazing consistancy of the bible.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who are being protected by God's power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 You rejoice in this, [a] though now for a short time you have had to be distressed by various trials 7 so that the genuineness of your faith —more valuable than gold, which perishes though refined by fire —may result in [b] praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 because you are receiving the goal of your [c] faith, the salvation of your souls. [d]

Sounds like a couple of the points of Calvinism.
The elect are kept by God. Sounds like OSAS/Eternal Security/Perseverence of the Saints to me........

Unless shielded means something different, of course.

and if we lose something that is eternal;, it does not change the fact that it is eternal... if I lose a DVD, it doesn't change into something else... it's STILL a DVD, no matter if i lost it or not, and the same goes for eternal life... eternal life is eternal life, whether one has possession of it or not

I guess the way you are using the term Salvation is not what it appeared to be, my apologies.


Could you please define Salvation? Just for clarity. Thank you.

and it's only in Jesus Christ in which we have eternal life, we must continue in Him which gives us eternal life through faith. do you deny 1 Peter 1:5 or Romans 11:20-24?

I don't deny them. I accept them for what they are.

 

[notIbutChrist]

There are some strange teachers out there that say things like once you are saved it is impossible for you to sin. That would be great if it was true, but the problem is instead of these people living perfectly holy lives, they instead just deny the sinfulness of their actions and delude themselves, because they have this idea that it is impossible to sin if you have been saved. They never repent of their sins, because they are too afraid to admit they ever sinned in the first place. However those of you on these forums (and there are many) That accuse everyone that believe in living righteous, and trust that God is able to keep them from sinning, do none of us any favors at all. Furthermore those that teach that God has already forgiven us of all our past, present, and future sins, therefore refuse to repent, believing you are already covered, are just as deluded, and equally in danger of God's wrath.

We are capable of choosing to sin after salvation, but we are also empowered by God to choose not to.

The idea that it is impossible to sin after salvation, and the idea that it is impossible to live sinlessly after salvation are equally false, and equally dangerous.

The idea that it is impossible to loose our faith, and walk away from our salvation is down right heretical

 

[Laodicea]

There are some strange teachers out there that say things like once you are saved it is impossible for you to sin. That would be great if it was true, but the problem is instead of these people living perfectly holy lives, they instead just deny the sinfulness of their actions and delude themselves, because they have this idea that it is impossible to sin if you have been saved. They never repent of their sins, because they are too afraid to admit they ever sinned in the first place. However those of you on these forums (and there are many) That accuse everyone that believe in living righteous, and trust that God is able to keep them from sinning, do none of us any favors at all. Furthermore those that teach that God has already forgiven us of all our past, present, and future sins, therefore refuse to repent, believing you are already covered, are just as deluded, and equally in danger of God's wrath.

We are capable of choosing to sin after salvation, but we are also empowered by God to choose not to.

The idea that it is impossible to sin after salvation, and the idea that it is impossible to live sinlessly after salvation are equally false, and equally dangerous.

The idea that it is impossible to loose our faith, and walk away from our salvation is down right heretical

Revelation 3:5
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.