Thats limited atonement
Calvinism is Gospel !
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- Status
T - Total Depravity
Calvinism teaches that man is so fallen that he cannot respond to God unless first regenerated.
The Bible certainly teaches that man is sinful, but Jesus continually treated people as capable of responding to God's call.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Matthew 11:28, ASV)
A command to come assumes the hearer can respond.
And ye will not come to me, that ye may have life. (John 5:40, ASV)
Jesus did not say they could not come. He said they would not come.
In the Old Testament God repeatedly calls people to choose:
I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life.(Deuteronomy 30:19, ASV)
A person who is incapable of responding cannot meaningfully be commanded to choose.
U - Unconditional Election
Calvinism teaches that before creation God chose certain individuals for salvation and passed over the rest regardless of anything they would do.
Jesus taught that God's desire extends to all.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16, ASV)
The invitation is to "whosoever."
Jesus also lamented over those who refused Him:
How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!(Matthew 23:37, ASV)
Christ desired one thing; they chose another.
If individuals were eternally decreed to reject Him, Christ's lament becomes difficult to explain.
L - Limited Atonement
Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect.
Jesus taught a much broader message.
For the bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world.(John 6:33, ASV)
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself. (John 12:32, ASV)
John wrote:
And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. (1 John 2:2, ASV)
The language repeatedly points outward to the world, not merely a hidden group chosen beforehand.
I - Irresistible Grace
Calvinism teaches that when God decides to save someone, that person cannot finally resist His saving grace.
Yet Jesus frequently describes people resisting God.
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit.(Acts 7:51, ASV)
Jesus said:
And ye will not come to me, that ye may have life. (John 5:40, ASV)
And in the parable of the wedding feast many invited guests refused the invitation. God calls. Man can resist. Otherwise the repeated warnings against refusing, rejecting, hardening the heart, and neglecting salvation become meaningless.
P - Perseverance of the Saints
Calvinism teaches that every truly saved person will inevitably persevere to the end.
Jesus taught the necessity of continuing faithfully.
If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples. (John 8:31, ASV)
He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
Notice the condition: "if" and "endure."
Jesus repeatedly warned believers about falling away.
In the parable of the sower, some receive the word with joy and later fall away.
And those on the rock are they who, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. (Luke 8:13, ASV)
A person who never truly believed cannot be described as one who "for a while believe."
The Deeper Problem
The deepest error of TULIP is that it shifts the focus away from the relationship Jesus preached.
Jesus constantly calls people to:
Repent. (Matthew 4:17)
Believe the gospel. (Mark 1:15)
Follow me. (Matthew 4:19)
Keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
Abide in me. (John 15:4)
Endure unto the end. (Matthew 24:13)
The gospel of Christ is a genuine invitation to all people. God loves the world, calls the world, warns the world, and judges people according to their response to His Son.
Under TULIP, many of these invitations become difficult to take at face value. If people cannot respond, why call them? If Christ did not die for all, why offer salvation to all? If grace cannot be resisted, why warn against resisting? If salvation cannot be abandoned, why so many warnings about falling away?
The gospel preached by Jesus is simple: God calls, man must respond. God offers mercy, man must repent and believe. God gives grace, man must continue in faithfulness.
Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14, ASV)
Jesus spoke as though people truly can choose whether they will enter that gate or refuse it. That is fundamentally different from the deterministic framework of TULIP.
They're not. When the Spirit quickens to life, He indwells
No
This is error, I been going over this.
I'll take the P, which is guaranteed perseverance of the saints:
Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
The Core Fallacy: My opponent commits the classic Arminian blunder of confusing moral obligation with spiritual ability. They falsely assume that because God commands a sinner to do something, the sinner must possess the inherent power to perform it. Under a strict covenantal lens, this philosophy completely collapses.
1. TOTAL DEPRAVITY: Commands Do Not Equal Capacity
- The Error: Claiming that commands like "Come unto me" (Matt 11:28) and "choose life" (Deut 30:19) prove the unregenerate have the independent ability to respond.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- God’s commands show what man ought to do, not what man can do. A demand to pay a debt does not prove a bankrupt debtor has the money; it establishes their legal guilt.
- My opponent isolates "ye will not come" (John 5:40) while deliberately hiding John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."
- The "will not" of the carnal mind is the direct consequence of the "cannot" of its dead nature (Rom 8:7-8). A corpse does not choose to remain dead; its lack of will is due to its lack of life.
2. UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION: The Sovereign Scope of the "Whosoever"
- The Error: Using John 3:16 and Matthew 23:37 to argue that God's eternal decree can be thwarted by human willpower.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- In John 3:16, "whosoever believeth" is grammatically restrictive, not universal. It limits the promise of life strictly to a specific group: those who believe. As 2 Peter 1:1 proves, faith is a gift received through a prior legal righteousness. Faith is the manifestation of election, not the cause of it.
- In Matthew 23:37, look at the grammar: "How often would I have gathered thy children... and ye would not!" The "ye" refers to the hypocritical Jewish rulers; the "children" refers to the citizens. This does not show God’s decree being defeated; it shows wicked rulers opposing the external ministry of the word.
3. LIMITED ATONEMENT: The Legal Triumph of the Cross
- The Error: Using words like "world" (1 John 2:2) and "all men" (John 12:32) to claim Christ died indefinitely for every single individual.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- If Christ is the propitiation (the wrath-appeasing sacrifice) for people currently in Hell, then God’s justice has failed. God cannot legally demand payment for sin from Christ on the tree, and then demand it again from an unbeliever in eternal torment. That is the legal heresy of double jeopardy.
- As John Gill notes, "world" (kosmos) in 1 John 2:2 breaks down national walls. John (a Jew) is telling his readers that Christ is the propitiation not just for Jewish believers, but for the elect scattered across the whole Gentile world.
- According to Romans 5:18, Christ's work is a "justification of life"—it is a legal verdict that ensures life. If He died for everyone, everyone would inevitably receive living faith.
4. IRRESISTIBLE GRACE: Creative Omnipotence vs. External Ministry
- The Error: Citing Acts 7:51 ("ye do always resist the Holy Spirit") to argue that human free will can overpower saving grace.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- My opponent confuses the external ministry of the word with the internal, efficacious operation of the Spirit. The Pharisees resisted the Holy Spirit as He spoke externally through the preaching of the prophets.
- When the Holy Spirit acts internally to regenerate a soul, He doesn’t merely make an offer; He executes a resurrection. You can resist an argument; you cannot resist a creative act of omnipotence (Ezekiel 36:26). Man's resistance is not merely bypassed—it is legally and supernaturally dissolved.
5. PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS: Rooted Faith vs. Temporary Masks
- The Error: Using the rocky soil in Luke 8:13 ("who for a while believe") to claim a truly saved person can fall away and lose their salvation.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- My opponent makes an amateur interpretive mistake. Jesus explicitly states the rocky soil "had no root."
- John Gill carefully distinguishes between an historical, temporary faith produced by human excitement and a living, saving faith rooted in Christ's imputed righteousness. The rocky ground hearers had mental assent to facts, but they were never born again. They did not lose salvation; they lost their temporary, religious mask.
If salvation is a "genuine invitation" that ultimately depends on man's uncoerced choice to repent, believe, and continue in faithfulness, then man becomes his own savior. In my opponent's system, Christ merely sets up the opportunity, but it is the sinner's independent willpower that breaks the tie between Heaven and Hell.
We stand on a gospel of a finished, legal, sovereign triumph:
- Christ perfectly walked the legal way of righteousness (Prov 12:28).
- The elect were formally constituted righteous by His obedience (Rom 5:19).
- Because they are legally righteous, they are given living faith as an unfrustrated covenant inheritance (2 Pet 1:1).
- Possessing that faith, they can finally reckon themselves dead to sin and alive to God (Rom 6:11).
Really? Was your post actually about whether Calvinism is gospel? Don't think so - lol you violated your own rule (above) with your post, but you can't see it - you were trying to obfuscate and divert a thread that was about Calvinism and the gospel, with stuff that had no bearing to Calvinism and the gospel
What collapses is your bizarre implication that God goes around commanding sinners to do things they cannot do.
No matter how often you refer to something John Gill said, your position makes no sense.
I do not think God is honored by claiming that He gives commands that cannot be obeyed. This verges on blasphemy.
You claim that salvation is something that God arbitrarily forces on a person, with no conditions on the part of that individual.
Another blasphemy — that man becomes his own savior, simply by obeying the command of God to repent and believe the gospel.
These are disgraceful accusations against the true gospel.
You have demonstrated why Calvinism is the anti-gospel.
You Calvinists don’t like the “genuine invitation” to all people!
You Calvinists don’t like “uncoerced choice”!
Calvinism falsely claims that faith is works, but the Bible says salvation is of grace by faith, and is not of works.
Man obeys God and God saves him. If a man does not obey, Gods does not save him.
Our obedience does not save us, but it complies with the command of Jesus.
Mark 1:14, 15
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world [the entire world], that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever [not just some] believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Core Fallacy: My opponent continues to commit a severe covenantal error. They mistake the conditional warnings addressed to the visible, external church (which contains both wheat and tares, elect and reprobate) for the actual legal security of the invisible, internal church (the elect).
In High Calvinism, perseverance is not a tightrope walk performed by human willpower; it is an absolute guarantee purchased by the active obedience of Jesus Christ and applied by the irresistible sealing of the Holy Spirit. Let us place their texts under an unyielding covenantal lens.
1. The Error of Confusing Legal Security with External Warnings
- The Proof-Texts Mutilated: Rom 11:22 ("otherwise you also will be cut off"), 1 Cor 15:2 ("if you hold firmly"), Col 1:22-23 ("if you continue"), Heb 3:6 & 14, 1 John 2:24, Jude 21.
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- The Nature of Covenants: John Gill masterfully argues that these "if" statements are evidential, not conditional. They do not describe how an elect soul retains their salvation, but how a true believer manifests and proves their eternal election to the visible world.
- Romans 11 (The Olive Tree): This is a dispensation warning about corporate entities, not individual salvation. The "cutting off" refers to the Gentile church as a visible corporate body losing its gospel privilege, just as national Israel did. It is not an individual elect sheep losing eternal life.
- The Legal Guarantee: If a soul is legally constituted righteous (Rom 5:19), and if that verdict is a justification of life (Rom 5:18), it is a legal impossibility for God to condemn them later. God’s courtroom does not issue a verdict of "acquitted" only to reverse it based on human endurance. Christ's intercession (Rom 8:34) guarantees that the elect will heed the warnings and continue. [1]
2. The Error of Confusing Nominal Religion with Saving Grace
- The Proof-Texts Mutilated: Gal 5:4 ("fallen away from grace"), 2 Pet 2:20 ("escaped the corruption... and again entangled"). [1, 2, 3]
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- Galatians 5:4 Explained: To fall from grace does not mean to lose spiritual life. The Greek context shows they fell from the doctrine of justification by grace by sliding back into legalism and circumcision. They abandoned the gospel framework for a works-based framework.
- 2 Peter 2:20 (The Dog and the Sow): My opponent completely ignores the context of the passage. Look at 2 Peter 2:22—Peter explicitly identifies these apostates as a dog returning to its vomit and a sow returning to the mire. Their internal natures were never changed. They were never sheep. They had a temporary, external, reformation of behavior through historical knowledge, but their hearts remained swine. You cannot lose a regeneration you never possessed. [1, 2, 3]
3. The Error of Misinterpreting Hebrews 6 & 10
- The Proof-Texts Mutilated: Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-36 ("impossible... if they fall away, to be brought back").
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- John Gill on Hebrews 6: Gill meticulously demonstrates that the descriptions here—"enlightened," "tasted," "shared"—describe extraordinary Gifts of the Holy Spirit (like the miraculous gifts of the apostolic age or ordinary gospel conviction), not saving grace.
- Notice what the text does not say: It does not say they were justified, elected, redeemed by blood, or born again. Like Judas Iscariot, a reprobate can taste the external operations of the Holy Spirit, preach the word, and still fall away because they lack the "root" of saving faith.
- The Absolute Decree: In Hebrews 6:9, the author immediately shifts to the true elect: "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation." This proves that the things mentioned in verses 4-6 do not necessarily accompany salvation. They are temporary, external privileges. [1, 2, 3]
4. The Error of Turning Rewards into Conditions
- The Proof-Texts Mutilated: Matt 10:22 / Matt 24:13 ("he who stands firm to the end will be saved"), 2 Tim 2:12 ("if we endure"), Jam 1:12, Rev 2:10 ("crown of life").
- The Scriptural Refutation:
- The Means and the End: My opponent acts as if the endurance originates from man. In the Covenant of Grace, the means (endurance) are just as much a gift as the end (salvation).
- Philippians 1:6 locks this down: "He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." True believers endure to the end because Christ's sovereign power preserves them. The promise of the "crown of life" is a certain reward guaranteed to the elect because Christ's righteousness has purchased both the perseverance and the crown. [1]
5. 2 Peter 1:10-11 — Slaying the Arminian Timeline
- The Text: "Be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall..."
- The High Calvinist Victory:
- Who is making their election sure? The believer is making it sure to themselves and others. You cannot make an eternal decree of God "more sure" than it already is in the divine mind.
- Peter explicitly ties this back to the very first verse of his epistle (2 Pet 1:1), where he states we receive faith through the legally imputed righteousness of Christ. The foundation is fixed. Walking in holiness ensures the believer stays structurally firm and avoids a experiential stumbling ("fall"), receiving a "rich welcome" into the kingdom.
THE CLOSING CHARGE FOR MY OPPONENTMy opponent’s view of "perseverance" turns salvation into a legal nightmare where the sinner’s final destiny is contingent upon their own independent, uncoerced faithfulness. If an elect soul can fall away, then:
- The legal substitution of Christ on the tree was a failure that did not actually satisfy God's wrath for that person's future sins of apostasy.
- The intercession of Christ at the right hand of God (Heb 7:25) is impotent and can be defeated by human unfaithfulness.
- The sealing of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) is temporary and can be ripped off by the flesh.
Whom He justified, them He certainly, unfrustratably glorified (Rom 8:30). No caveats. No dropouts. Soli Deo Gloria. [1]
: Exposing the True Anti-Gospel of Human Autonomy
The Ultimate Pivot: My opponent is visibly shaken by the inescapable legal logic of sovereign grace. When confronted with the scriptures, they abandon exegesis and resort to emotional outbursts, hurling accusations of "blasphemy." Let us take their charges to the courtroom of God's Word and show whose system truly dishonors the Almighty.
1. The Justice of God: Does God Command What Man Cannot Do?
- My Opponent's Claim: It is "bizarre" and "verging on blasphemy" to say God commands spiritually dead sinners to do things they have no inherent power to perform.
- The Scriptural Reality:
- My opponent’s real quarrel is not with John Gill; it is with Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul. In Romans 8:7-8, Paul explicitly states that the carnal mind is enmity against God, is not subject to the law of God, "neither indeed can be." Therefore, those in the flesh "cannot please God."
- Does God stop commanding carnal men to love Him and obey His law just because they "cannot" do it? Absolute nonsense. If God can only command what a fallen sinner has the "inherent power" to do, then the standard of God's holiness drops to the level of human depravity.
- The Law commands perfect, sinless perfection (Matt 5:48). Can my opponent perform that? No. Is it "blasphemy" that God still demands it? No. The command establishes man's infinite obligation and unexcused guilt; it does not measure their fallen, crippled capacity.
2. The Mechanics of Faith: Is Faith a Meritorious Tie-Breaker?
- My Opponent's Claim: Man is not his own savior simply by "complying with the command" to believe. They claim, "Man obeys God and God saves him. If a man does not obey, God does not save him."
- The Exposure of the Joint Venture:
- Listen closely to my opponent's formula: Man obeys \(\rightarrow \) then God saves. In their timeline, God stands at the door of the sinner's dead heart, completely paralyzed, waiting for the dead man to perform the initial act of spiritual compliance.
- If two sinners hear the exact same gospel presentation, and Sinner A "complies" while Sinner B refuses, what broke the tie between Heaven and Hell? It wasn't the cross, because the cross was identical for both. It wasn't the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit did the same for both. The ultimate, decisive factor that saved Sinner A was their own independent, uncoerced willpower.
- That is the definition of boasting. It makes the human will the sovereign umpire of eternity.
3. Mark 1:15 & John 3:16 — The Gospel Manifested, Not Offered conditionally
- The Textual Trap: My opponent hurls Mark 1:15 ("repent ye, and believe") and John 3:16 ("whosoever believeth") as if these texts shock a Calvinist.
- The High Calvinist Resolution:
- Mark 1:15: The gospel call is to be preached externally to all. But how does a dead soul actually comply with this command? Look at Acts 11:18: "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Look at Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ... to believe on him." Repentance and faith are commands to the ears of all men, but they are sovereign gifts infused into the hearts of the elect. God commands it, and then God graciously creates the ability to perform it.
- John 3:16: As established, "whosoever believeth" is a restrictive clause. It defines the character of those who receive eternal life—they are believers. And who are the believers? They are those who were legally constituted righteous at the cross (Rom 5:19), whose prior justification guarantees the temporal gift of living faith (2 Pet 1:1).
THE FINAL CLOSING CHARGE: Who Preaches the True Triumph?
My opponent claims Calvinism forces salvation on people arbitrarily. No. Calvinism declares that Christ’s death was an absolute, unfrustrated legal success.
- In my opponent's "anti-gospel," Jesus Christ died on the tree to purchase a potential salvation that actually saves nobody until a carnal human mind gives Him permission to do so. Their Christ is a disappointed savior who desires to gather people who successfully defeat His will (Matt 23:37).
- In the true gospel of sovereign grace, Christ’s resurrection was the legal discharge of His people (Rom 4:25). Because they were legally justified in eternity and at the cross, the Holy Spirit irresistibly breaks into their timeline, subdues their hostile will, and makes them willing in the day of His power (Psalm 110:3).
My opponent can serve a savior who waits on man. I will serve the Savior whom man waits upon. Soli Deo Gloria.
What Jesus was walking in was OT living. Not Church.
We can read how several referred to Jesus as, 'rabbi.'
The Church way of living did not happen before the death, burial, and resurrection.
And, only after Jesus ascended back to the Father and was glorified.
Jesus was being as an OT Jewish rabbi (and prophet) to the people.
The Core Fallacy: My opponent continues to commit a severe covenantal error. They mistake the conditional warnings addressed to the visible, external church (which contains both wheat and tares, elect and reprobate) for the actual legal security of the invisible, internal church (the elect).
In High Calvinism, perseverance is not a tightrope walk performed by human willpower; it is an absolute guarantee purchased by the active obedience of Jesus Christ and applied by the irresistible sealing of the Holy Spirit. Let us place their texts under an unyielding covenantal lens.
My opponent’s view of "perseverance" turns salvation into a legal nightmare where the sinner’s final destiny is contingent upon their own independent, uncoerced faithfulness. If an elect soul can fall away, then:
We reject this carnal theology. We stand on the unbending grit of Jesus Christ, our Covenant Surety. The elect do not hold onto Christ to stay saved; Christ holds onto the elect, ensuring they will heed every warning, endure every trial, and be presented blameless before the throne. [1]
- The legal substitution of Christ on the tree was a failure that did not actually satisfy God's wrath for that person's future sins of apostasy.
- The intercession of Christ at the right hand of God (Heb 7:25) is impotent and can be defeated by human unfaithfulness.
- The sealing of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) is temporary and can be ripped off by the flesh.
Whom He justified, them He certainly, unfrustratably glorified (Rom 8:30). No caveats. No dropouts. Soli Deo Gloria. [1]
How tulipists kick against the goad of God's Word!
I never knew about the extent of such brain-washing until I joined CC.
Here again are relevant Scriptures for truthseekers:
Matt. 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Rom. 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”
1Cor. 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”
Gal. 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Col. 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”
2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”
2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”
Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).
Heb. 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
Jam. 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
2Pet. 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
2Pet. 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”
1John 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”
Jude 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”
Rev. 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
I'm sure he has read those verses before, but he didn't understand them. There are so many radically different interpretations of the one gospel message.
The true gospel is rejected by most professing Christians, most can't accept it as it is written so they twist it to make it acceptable.
If that old Serpent (Satan) didn't deceive Eve, then mankind wouldn't have been born enslaved to sin and Satan and you wouldn't be asking the question. There's no point in asking "what if" questions, lets just deal with the reality and leave the wishful thinking alone.
Thank you for your honesty, the Bible does say that "the Leopard cannot change it's spots and the Ethiopian cannot change the colour of his skin".Ok, thanks for playing. I was elected to believe this way.
God said He chose His elect for salvation and wrote their names in His book of life, before He created the world. Where in the Bible does it say that God changed His mind and added extra names or removed names from His book of life. I'll save you the search, He never said any such thing, you just made that up
You're claiming that salvation is attained by man and God cooperating together to achieve salvation. The problem with that idea is the Lord Jesus said in, John 3:3, a person must be "born again" (regenerated) by the Holy Spirit just to see or desire the Kingdom of God.
The Fall affected every part of human nature, including the mind, heart, and will. While unbelievers can make everyday choices, they lack the spiritual desire or "moral ability" to choose God.
1 Corinthians 2:14, which states that the natural person cannot understand the things of the Spirit because they are "folly to him".
Because faith is a gift and humans are spiritually dead, salvation is entirely a work of God from start to finish. God must first sovereignly change the sinner's heart so that they want to believe the gospel.
As Jesus said, "Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand" (Matthew 13:13). Paul explains that the problem is not lack of information but lack of spiritual discernment. The gospel seems like foolishness to the natural man because he does not have the Holy Spirit.
The sinner’s condition is not like a man who wants to believe but cannot. It is more like someone who hates the offer and wants nothing to do with it. "You refuse to come to Me, that you may have life" (John 5:40). Why? "Because the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19).
Satan must have permission before he can blind them.
For Satan can not know who will, and will not believe.
Satan will be effective only with those whom God allows for.
God let's Satan do it to those who God knows have rejected the drawing of God.
Makes think simple and decisive that way.
It does not say elected for salvation. But for this salvation that enters us into Christ.God said He chose His elect for salvation and wrote their names in His book of life, before He created the world. Where in the Bible does it say that God changed His mind and added extra names or removed names from His book of life. I'll save you the search, He never said any such thing, you just made that up
Those whom God chose "in Him," God chose for being members of the Bride of Christ.
That is what we in the Church age had been chosen for.
God could have had you born in the days of Moses.
If He did that?
You would not find yourself "in Christ" when you believed.
You have become an OT believer, destined to inherit the New Earth.
In contrast to the OT believers?
We are destined for our home in Heaven.
.
But God did chose specific individuals for salvation before the creation of the world. This doctrine, known as "unconditional election," asserts that God's choice is based solely on His own sovereign grace, not on anything good He foresaw in the individual.
The OT believers are and always were members of the Bride of Christ. Abraham, Moses, David etc. were all Born again Christians. They were saved in the same way NT believers are today, we all put our faith in Christ for the remission of our sin and we were saved.
The only difference is, the OT believers looked forward to Christ's coming and we look back, but we were all chosen before the creation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4-5: "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will."
Romans 8:29-30: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..."
Romans 9:11-13: Speaking of Jacob and Esau, Paul writes, "Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls..."
Because humanity is born "dead in trespasses and sins," no one would or could choose God on their own. Therefore, God must sovereignly intervene to regenerate the heart, granting the faith required for salvation.
This means that just as God actively chose (elected) some to salvation, He also decreed to pass over others (reprobation), leaving them in their sin to face the just penalty for it.
The Bride of Christ is one body of believers, we're not separated by time or ethnicity or social status. The Church is One Body and the Lord Jesus is the Head of the Body.
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