Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

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Nah, genuine faith can be lost based on Hebrews 10:29 "How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"

These people were sanctified by the blood of the covenant, does not get more saved than that.
Nope. Completely wrong analysis, this due to appalling ignorance of the intrinsic Jewish content of that chapter.....and the entire book.

The vast majority of Christians AND Churches get an abysmal FAILING grade on the book of Hebrews.

Read Arnold Fruchtenbaum's exquisite exegetical treatment. It is superb.....and undoubtedly correct.
 
Nope. Completely wrong analysis, this due to appalling ignorance of the intrinsic Jewish content of that chapter.....and the entire book.

The vast majority of Christians AND Churches get an abysmal FAILING grade on the book of Hebrews.

Read Arnold Fruchtenbaum's exquisite exegetical treatment. It is superb.....and undoubtedly correct.
"Fruchtenbaum continues to teach based on what some call a "Midrashic Hermeneutic", his particular focus is on the Judaic background of the Gospels."

I think I should pass, the jews got it wrong, their interpretation led them to reject the Messiah so the jewish background isn't of any value here, the apostolic interpretation is the best one. But because I am open minded I will give him a listen. Atleast he isn't a judaism jew but a Christian so hopefully he was wise enough to filter the vain talking of the circumcision Paul talked about.

Where can I find this hebrews Fruchtenbaum material?
 
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26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Same as the title.. If this is how you read it, how do you reconcile what Paul describes as his on going struggle with sin in romans 7?

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

No,it doesn't.
Jesus told us,no one can take us from his hand. We can never lose Salvation. It is God's gift.
 
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Ok, so I should qualify my statement to say, "only about 14% of catholics are lackadaisical"?

The redemption of the body occurs at the resurrection so, at the least, God doesn't totally abandon it to decay. But whether the soul is subject to decay remains to be arguable considering the assertion of Acts 13:34 and Romans 8:21.
But you are a new creation here and now.

You already have received the gift of love in the Holy Spirit.

That agape love is the first fruit of the Holy Spirit and is the nature of God Himself.

You are already seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

The Holy Spirit is the seal of God's ownership over us.

The transformation of the body lags behind the Spirit.
 
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Spot on with that reply.

Jesus has engineered salvation not us.

Yes, God/Jesus initiates; sinners may cooperate--or not,
and cooperating via faith should not be viewed as working to earn salvation,
but merely as opening God's free gift.
 
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Same as the title.. If this is how you read it, how do you reconcile what Paul describes as his on going struggle with sin in romans 7?

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

I think the key difference is this

Hebrews 10:26–31 is warning about deliberate, ongoing rejection of Christ after clearly knowing the truth, basically trampling on His sacrifice and walking away. That’s apostasy.

Romans 7 is Paul describing the normal daily struggle of a real believer who hates his sin, delights in God’s law, but still battles the flesh. He’s not giving up he’s fighting and crying out for deliverance through Christ.

So one is turning your back on Jesus completely. The other is the honest fight every Christian has. Big difference.
 
Yes, God/Jesus initiates; sinners may cooperate--or not,
and cooperating via faith should not be viewed as working to earn salvation,
but merely as opening God's free gift.
That's better GWH.

We are saved when we first call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:10).

If we still call on the name of the Lord at the end of our life we remain saved.

Receiving that gift of salvation is all we can do.

That is why we worship Jesus.
 
I think the key difference is this

Hebrews 10:26–31 is warning about deliberate, ongoing rejection of Christ after clearly knowing the truth, basically trampling on His sacrifice and walking away. That’s apostasy.

Romans 7 is Paul describing the normal daily struggle of a real believer who hates his sin, delights in God’s law, but still battles the flesh. He’s not giving up he’s fighting and crying out for deliverance through Christ.

So one is turning your back on Jesus completely. The other is the honest fight every Christian has. Big difference.
That was a good reply.

Sin itself and willful sin is what every Christian on earth commits literally everyday.

The demarcation line is always the rejection of Jesus Christ.
 
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That's better GWH.

We are saved when we first call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:10).

If we still call on the name of the Lord at the end of our life we remain saved.

Receiving that gift of salvation is all we can do.

That is why we worship Jesus.

Yes, and why we love Him as Lord and desire to please Him by reflecting His light, love and joy to the world,
which reminds me of this song:

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/spirit-of-the-lord

:love:
 
"Fruchtenbaum continues to teach based on what some call a "Midrashic Hermeneutic", his particular focus is on the Judaic background of the Gospels."

I think I should pass, the jews got it wrong, their interpretation led them to reject the Messiah so the jewish background isn't of any value here, the apostolic interpretation is the best one. But because I am open minded I will give him a listen. Atleast he isn't a judaism jew but a Christian so hopefully he was wise enough to filter the vain talking of the circumcision Paul talked about.

Where can I find this hebrews Fruchtenbaum material?
"The Jews got it wrong "???
Good grief man ALL of the Apostles were "Messianic Jews"!

Furthermore, the New Covenant was FIRST given (and accepted ) to the Jews..... EXCLUSIVELY.

The gentiles entered in later and upset the established Jewish believers so badly that they needed a major and urgent C-Suite Council (Acts 15) to sort out what exactly to do with these gentiles!

And just to let you know, Paul was the ORIGINAL futurist dispensationalist premillennialist.

Yes, truly the Jew is FIRST. First in blessing, first in judgement.
 
That was a good reply.

Sin itself and willful sin is what every Christian on earth commits literally everyday.

The demarcation line is always the rejection of Jesus Christ.
Yes exactly, part of our walk with Christ is to to fight daily. The ones that walk away give up and just accept that sinning is just who they are and they don't need to repent or change.
 
"The Jews got it wrong "???
Good grief man ALL of the Apostles were "Messianic Jews"!

Furthermore, the New Covenant was FIRST given (and accepted ) to the Jews..... EXCLUSIVELY.

The gentiles entered in later and upset the established Jewish believers so badly that they needed a major and urgent C-Suite Council (Acts 15) to sort out what exactly to do with these gentiles!

And just to let you know, Paul was the ORIGINAL futurist dispensationalist premillennialist.

Yes, truly the Jew is FIRST. First in blessing, first in judgement.

And further furthermore, Abraham was the FIRST Gentile who became a proto-Christian,
so Paul called him the father of all who have saving faith in Romans 4.

Being Jewish is okay if Messianic per Romans 11.
Another Council (a Jewish Reformation) is needed to sort out THAT truth!
 
"The Jews got it wrong "???
Good grief man ALL of the Apostles were "Messianic Jews"!

Furthermore, the New Covenant was FIRST given (and accepted ) to the Jews..... EXCLUSIVELY.

The gentiles entered in later and upset the established Jewish believers so badly that they needed a major and urgent C-Suite Council (Acts 15) to sort out what exactly to do with these gentiles!

And just to let you know, Paul was the ORIGINAL futurist dispensationalist premillennialist.

Yes, truly the Jew is FIRST. First in blessing, first in judgement.
hahaha. st.paul had no idea what a futurist dispensationalist was.

good grief indeed man. how about you stop sucking off the jews? this is embarrasing man. grown man getting cucked by white people who cant even prove they are descendants of jacob. you're the type of guy to travel to israel and be a good shabbos goy and work on their vineyards for free while they deem you too filthy to actually be involved in the wine making, you are free to work the fields tho. good shabbos goy, keep posting goy. oy vey!
 
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"The Jews got it wrong "???
Good grief man ALL of the Apostles were "Messianic Jews"!

Furthermore, the New Covenant was FIRST given (and accepted ) to the Jews..... EXCLUSIVELY.

The gentiles entered in later and upset the established Jewish believers so badly that they needed a major and urgent C-Suite Council (Acts 15) to sort out what exactly to do with these gentiles!

And just to let you know, Paul was the ORIGINAL futurist dispensationalist premillennialist.

Yes, truly the Jew is FIRST. First in blessing, first in judgement.
By Jews I did not mean the Apostles, I wrote that the apostolic interpretation is the correct one. I meant the Jews who rejected Jesus, who embrace what is called judaism, they indeed got it all wrong and continue to do so today. I would agree Paul was premill and futurist but I would dispute the dispensational part since that type of teaching is unheard of in the early Church fathers, I find it hard to believe the ones who were taught by the Apostle John for example all got it wrong.
 
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hahaha. st.paul had no idea what a futurist dispensationalist was.

good grief indeed man. how about you stop sucking off the jews? this is embarrasing man. grown man getting cucked by white people who cant even prove they are descendants of jacob. you're the type of guy to travel to israel and be a good shabbos goy and work on their vineyards for free while they deem you too filthy to actually be involved in the wine making, you are free to work the fields tho. good shabbos goy, keep posting goy. oy vey!
You don't have to agree with the man but you can show some respect. I hope we can all agree to disagree on certain things. Does the Bible say you must be a preterist, futurist, dispensationalist, historicist, zionist to be saved? Or does it say you must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved?
 
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By Jews I did not mean the Apostles, I wrote that the apostolic interpretation is the correct one. I meant the Jews who rejected Jesus, who embrace what is called judaism, they indeed got it all wrong and continue to do so today. I would agree Paul was premill and futurist but I would dispute the dispensational part since that type of teaching is unheard of in the early Church fathers, I find it hard to believe the ones who were taught by the Apostle John for example all got it wrong.

Actually, Scripture supports belief in four dispensations of divine revelation:

1. Creation until Abraham-Moses per Rom. 1:20.
2. The OC Law and Prophets per Rom. 2:12-3:20.
3. The NT Gospel of Christ per Rom. 3:21-5:11.
4. The future following Judgment Day, when saints are resurrected to heaven per 1Cor. 13:12.
 
But you are a new creation here and now.

You already have received the gift of love in the Holy Spirit.

That agape love is the first fruit of the Holy Spirit and is the nature of God Himself.

You are already seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

The Holy Spirit is the seal of God's ownership over us.

The transformation of the body lags behind the Spirit.
Indeed, if you taste and drink of undying love, it never dies.
 
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And further furthermore, Abraham was the FIRST Gentile who became a proto-Christian,
so Paul called him the father of all who have saving faith in Romans 4.

Being Jewish is okay if Messianic per Romans 11.
Another Council (a Jewish Reformation) is needed to sort out THAT truth!
The Cornelius incident in Acts 10 cannot be dated exactly, because Luke supplies no direct chronological marker. The most defensible estimate is approximately A.D. 39–40, with A.D. 40 often used as a convenient working date.


A reasonable chronology is:


  • Crucifixion, resurrection and Pentecost: A.D. 30 or 33, depending on the chronology adopted.
  • Saul’s conversion: commonly placed around A.D. 34–36.
  • Peter’s ministry at Lydda and Joppa: Acts 9:32–43.
  • Cornelius receives the gospel at Caesarea: roughly A.D. 39–40.
  • The Jerusalem Council: approximately A.D. 49–50, meaning Acts 10 necessarily precedes it by several years.
This dating is theologically important because Cornelius was admitted as a Gentile without circumcision or conversion to Judaism, and the Holy Spirit fell upon his household before water baptism. Acts 10 therefore marked the apostolic recognition that believing Gentiles were accepted directly into the Body of Messiah on the same basis as Jewish believers—faith in Messiah—though the full doctrinal implications would be debated and formally defended later in Acts 11 and Acts 15.