False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[ATG]

The devil does not care which extreme you go to.

Exactly. Paul preaches against works without faith, and James against faith without works.

Paul corrected a great number of Jews trusting in the law alone, and James corrected what has become a great number of Christians trusting in their faith alone.

And so, as you say, the devil decieves those who do the works of the law without faith, and those who have faith without keeping the commandments.

Rev 2:12
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Too far to one side or the other, and the sword of the Lord cuts us off either way.

While we are saved by grace through faith, this grace is never a license to continue in rebellion; rather, it is the power that enables us to live a life of holiness. It is a dangerous deception to believe that we can be saved in our sins rather than from our sins.

Well, halleluiah brother. Very refreshing to here the Scriptures preached plainly.

Grace of God is not the power to overcome judgment of works, but the power of God to overcome works judged evil.

As you rightly say, Jesus' salvation is from sinning, not from being condemned by transgressions.

Today many sermons are preached that pick and choose the verses about Faith and Grace, telling people all they need to do is believe. This is the Devil.

This is the practical result of faith alone justification, apart from works: We're justified with God so long as we believe we are saved by God.

Of course, saying these things plainly without all the beautified words, is offensive to them, because it strips their stuff to the bare bones.

2Co 3:12
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

Antinomianism: It teaches that the gospel of Christ has made the law of God void, leading to a life where obedience is viewed as unnecessary.

Exactly. In fact, for some keeping the commandments has become the enemy of grace.

False Liberty: Adherents misinterpret the concept of not being "under the law" to mean they are no longer under the standard or direction of the law, rather than being free from its condemnation.

True. We aren't following the law, but Jesus Christ. But all transgression of the law is condemned by Jesus Christ.

if we are transgressing God's commandments, we are neither loving nor walking with Jesus Christ.

Don't go to either extreme.

Exactly, and keep it simple.

Repent of evil doing with faith in Jesus to do good.

 

[ATG]

ATG said:
So you are still seeking to fulfill your own lust.
Why do you take the words of others in the worst possible way? Is your mind so warped by bad doctrine that you can’t see the obvious implication of his statement without interpreting it as personal testimony?

You were doing ok for a while, and just sticking to arguments. But, just couldn't keep it that way. Even go out of the way to do so.

The bible revelas the truth, you reckon "a transgressor seeks the salvation of Jesus". But that's not true, because Gods Word reveals that nobody seeks salvation, and the only thing we seek is to fulfill our lust and sinful desires.

There's no rule against jumping into other posts, but seriously. If we can't take people at their words, when we specifically speak about ourselves, when can we? Or shouldn't we?

It's one thing for us to get upset about not being believed, but for being believed??

In any case, it's no wonder you continue to accuse people of misrepresenting your own words too. Even when you're also quoted.

 

[Dino246]

You were doing ok for a while, and just sticking to arguments. But, just couldn't keep it that way. Even go out of the way to do so.

You treat people poorly and just expect that nobody will call you on it? Good luck with that.

 

[Wansvic]

While we agree for churches today, we cannot apply it to the beginning church at Jerusalem:

Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We have to acknowledge that baptism of the Jews was clearly for remission of sins. No Jewish disciple of John and Jesus Christ could hope to have their sins remitted without baptism.

The gospel of Jesus Christ however does not preach baptism for remission to the churches of God beyond those Jews at Jerusalem.

Baptism was never preached again for remission of sins, including the Jews of Samaria and around Judea. As you say, the record is clear that baptism was for the new disciples, but not for remission of sins.

It's clear that when the gospel of Jesus Christ was first preached by the apostle, that baptism in Jesus' name, following after the baptism of John, was indeed for the remission of sins. And that's the only time we read in the NT record of baptism for remission.

So, if anyone wants to preach the gospel of baptism for remission of sins, they need to do so at Jerusalem, but are already about 2000 years too late.

I once attended Universal Pentecost service, where Acts 2:38 was specifically preached. I got baptized elsewhere.

You are mistaken. Water baptism for remission of sin was preached again..

Peter stated, "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) The reality that Peter referenced between the name of Jesus and remission of sin is recorded a few verses later in Acts 47:48:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Later, Peter told fellow Jews that he could not withstand God AFTER seeing God fill the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 11:17-18) The only thing Peter did after seeing them receive the Holy Ghost was to command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus. This was directly related to remission of sin being received through the name of Jesus that he revealed in verse 43.

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:17-18).

 

[TrustandObey]

I haven't already quoted the Scriptures?

Mar 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In any case, there is no single passage that has grace as the moment for remission of sins.

And so, we see the classic separation of Scriptures: To separate what we don't want from Scripture, from what we do want from Scripture: There is no remission of sins without repentance and grace.

There are people that want the Savior, but not the Lord, so also the remission, but not the repentance and grace to sin no more.

It seems to me that these two verses are using baptism after repentance as the moment of remission.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Therefore, every Scripture must be taught in context of all other Scripture, not just from verse to verse within a chapter of Scripture. To rightly teach any Scripture, we must do so in context of all Scripture taken together as one complete word.

If we separate one Scripture from other Scriptures, not just verse to verse within a certain chapter, but also from other chapters and books, then we are falsely teaching Scripture out of context. The end result with be contradicting the unity of Scripture written for doctrine and prophecy of God.

This is commonly done by unbelievers seeking fault with Scripture, to say God's words are not inerrant.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

From this one verse alone, anyone could teach that the God of the Bible is the creator of evil things, and so is an evil creator doing evil things. However taken in context of all Scripture together:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Here we see that God cannot do evil, because He can't even be tempted with evil. Nor does He tempt anyone to do evil. Therefore, Is 45:7 must be read and taught in context of James 1:13, that the God of the Bible cannot be an evil Creator creating and doing evil. Such as the pagan God Moloch.

Such false accusations against the God of the Bible, however is also done by believers, in order to teach their own false doctrine.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

By this verse alone, anyone could say that salvation is only by faith through faith, to the exclusion of repentance and works.

By that rule of exclusion from other Scriptures:

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,

By this verse alone, anyone could say that justification is by faith of Jesus Christ alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace.

Titus{3:3}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And by this verse alone, anyone can say that salvation is by the mercy of God alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace and faith.

However, taken in context of all Scripture together, not only unifies the gospel of Jesus Christ into one principle doctrine, but also does away with the ad absurdum of isolating one Scripture to the exclusion of others:

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is principally necessary for salvation by grace through faith toward God.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And works are necessary to be saved and justified by grace through faith of Jesus Christ.

And so, when we read any Scripture, we must always include all Scripture pertaining to the same thing, in order to know the unified principle gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Anyone teaching falsely from any certain Scripture, but excluding other Scripture pertaining to it, is advocating for a gospel and doctrine of another Christ, not the Jesus Christ of Scriptures.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Did the thief on the cross do any works or was it faith in Christ alone?

 

[Gideon300]

The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Therefore, every Scripture must be taught in context of all other Scripture, not just from verse to verse within a chapter of Scripture. To rightly teach any Scripture, we must do so in context of all Scripture taken together as one complete word.

If we separate one Scripture from other Scriptures, not just verse to verse within a certain chapter, but also from other chapters and books, then we are falsely teaching Scripture out of context. The end result with be contradicting the unity of Scripture written for doctrine and prophecy of God.

This is commonly done by unbelievers seeking fault with Scripture, to say God's words are not inerrant.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

From this one verse alone, anyone could teach that the God of the Bible is the creator of evil things, and so is an evil creator doing evil things. However taken in context of all Scripture together:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Here we see that God cannot do evil, because He can't even be tempted with evil. Nor does He tempt anyone to do evil. Therefore, Is 45:7 must be read and taught in context of James 1:13, that the God of the Bible cannot be an evil Creator creating and doing evil. Such as the pagan God Moloch.

Such false accusations against the God of the Bible, however is also done by believers, in order to teach their own false doctrine.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

By this verse alone, anyone could say that salvation is only by faith through faith, to the exclusion of repentance and works.

By that rule of exclusion from other Scriptures:

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,

By this verse alone, anyone could say that justification is by faith of Jesus Christ alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace.

Titus{3:3}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And by this verse alone, anyone can say that salvation is by the mercy of God alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace and faith.

However, taken in context of all Scripture together, not only unifies the gospel of Jesus Christ into one principle doctrine, but also does away with the ad absurdum of isolating one Scripture to the exclusion of others:

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is principally necessary for salvation by grace through faith toward God.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And works are necessary to be saved and justified by grace through faith of Jesus Christ.

And so, when we read any Scripture, we must always include all Scripture pertaining to the same thing, in order to know the unified principle gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Anyone teaching falsely from any certain Scripture, but excluding other Scripture pertaining to it, is advocating for a gospel and doctrine of another Christ, not the Jesus Christ of Scriptures.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Part of the problem is King James-ese. Isaiah 45:7 does NOT say that God creates evil. The Hebrew says, "Calamity". Not the same thing.

 

[GWH]

Part of the problem is King James-ese. Isaiah 45:7 does NOT say that God creates evil. The Hebrew says, "Calamity". Not the same thing.

And part of the problem is that Scripture is not systematic, explaining a doctrine in one place, so we must connect disparate dots and harmonize apparent contradictions.

In this case, we who know both the OT and NT should realize that God created humans in His image/with the theoretical option of choosing evil because it is necessary and good for enabling the possibility of eternal loving fellowship aka heaven. When humans sin or actualize evil, they may repent/confess and be forgiven/filled with God's loving/Holy Spirit. SPUR

 

[Wansvic]

Did the thief on the cross do any works or was it faith in Christ alone?

The thief died while the Old Covenant was still in effect. Jesus granted him mercy while still living under the Mosaic Law and prior to His own resurrection.

The requirements associated with the NT rebirth were instituted after Jesus resurrection and ascension. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-58, 19:1-7, 22:16...)

 

[Journey_man]

Deu 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Zec 8:22
Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

Luk 11:9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



So you are still seeking to fulfill your own lust. The scripture says you certainly will fulfill it. Which makes sense from the Scripture.

2Ch 12:14
And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the LORD.

If you seek the Lord and His righteousness first, you can find Him and not fulfill your lust, because the Lamb will take it away from your heart:

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2 Peter 1:3
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.



'We' again? What church are you a part of? Or, are you only speaking of other seekers of their own lust like yourself?

Jas 1:14
Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

2Pe 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,




It's obvious what you are trying to say, because you say it plainly: You and others are still seeking your own lust to fulfill, and are not seeking the salvation of the Lord from lust and sin. No one is disagreeing with your testimony, however bad it is.



Now this is confusing. How can there be no good in someone, in whom God Himself is working? How can God be working in anyone that is not pleasing Him in any way?

Unless that God and Christ is unrighteous himself?

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I'm not going to enter into a vain dispute with a person who doesn't believe what God has said. I don't agree with your view that God contradicts Himself, because that makes Him a liar.

Romans 3:10-12 10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

 

[Journey_man]

No, both are still sinners doing evil against the Lord.

The Scriptures distinguish between unsaved sinners and saved saints.

Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful...Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.



2Pe 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

I reject preaching sin to any people, including to the unbelievers, but especially to anyone naming Christ.

Jesus Christ only preaches repenting of sins to all sinners, especially any naming Christ:

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the nations, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


Scripture does.

1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

1 John 1:8: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us,"

According to the Lord Jesus, the truth is not in you.

 

[GWH]

I'm not going to enter into a vain dispute with a person who doesn't believe what God has said. I don't agree with your view that God contradicts Himself, because that makes Him a liar.

Romans 3:10-12 10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

All souls sin, but some repent, seek God, find salvation via faith in Christ and love/do good via the indwelling HS.
Let us not prooftext. SPUR

 

[Journey_man]

What you're teaching is nothing new:

2 Peter{2:19}
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
2Co 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


The Scriptural record does show born again believers committing such things in turning from the Lord unto destruction:

1Jo 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

2Pe 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

God's promise of mercy is to those who repent, and believe Jesus Christ.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

God's promise of wrath is to those who repent not, and believe another Christ.

Rom 2:3
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Paul, like James, spoke of the double hearted sinners that need to repent and be delivered by the Lord, to do good and not evil.

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Paul also testified of himself being the chief example of how any sinner can repent, and be converted by Jesus to His saints. Paul used his own example of being converted from a persecutor and murderer of the saints:

Gal 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1Ti 1:12
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Paul now preaches that same gospel of Jesus Christ that delivered him, is for all sinners that repent:

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The good news of Jesus Christ is for them that repent, who were sinners and trespassers of the world, and now are saints of God.

There's nothing good about preaching unrepented sinners and trespassers into the grave, and never becoming sons of God.



They repented of the awful doing evil, not preach it unto the grave.

Jesus Christ forgives those that repent from doing evil.

Jer 25:5
They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:

Eze 18:30
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Act 3:26
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

He judges awful evil doers.

Jde 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

God never admired any person as much as the murderer and adulterer David.

Acts 13:22
And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, ‘I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’.​

The Lord Jesus said, in Matthew 9:13 NKJV, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance"

That's me, the Lord Jesus came for people like me, you're obviously a righteous man so you have no need of Him.

 

[Journey_man]

All souls sin, but some repent, seek God, find salvation via faith in Christ and love/do good via the indwelling HS.
Let us not prooftext. SPUR

Pardon me, but would you be so kind as to tell me more about these mysterious ones who "repent, seek God, and find salvation via faith in Christ". I'm just wondering why they end up finding salvation, while the vast majority of mankind remains condemned.

I'm just trying to understand these special people and what sets them apart from the common riffraff.

 

[GWH]

Pardon me, but would you be so kind as to tell me more about these mysterious ones who "repent, seek God, and find salvation via faith in Christ". I'm just wondering why they end up finding salvation, while the vast majority of mankind remains condemned.

I'm just trying to understand these special people and what sets them apart from the common riffraff.

The ones who may repent include all sinners.
Why many refuse to repent is the mystery,
which Jesus and Paul both mentioned
in Matt. 13:14-15 and Acts 28:26-27.

 

[Lamar]

Did the thief on the cross do any works or was it faith in Christ alone?

Regardless of what "works" the thief on the cross did or did not do, his promise is no more our promise than the specific promises given to other individuals in the Bible.

IOW, you cannot claim a promise given to someone else.

The promise given to all of us is:

Acts 2:38-39

Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. This promise belongs to you and to your children and to everyone who is far away. It belongs to everyone who worships the Lord our God.”

 

[mailmandan]

Regardless of what "works" the thief on the cross did or did not do, his promise is no more our promise than the specific promises given to other individuals in the Bible.

IOW, you cannot claim a promise given to someone else.

The promise given to all of us is:

Acts 2:38-39

Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. This promise belongs to you and to your children and to everyone who is far away. It belongs to everyone who worships the Lord our God.”

The real question is, "WHAT IS BAPTISM FOR?" in Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3 (prior to Pentecost) and Acts 2:38 (after Pentecost).

 

[ATG]

You are mistaken. Water baptism for remission of sin was preached again..

Peter stated, "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43)

Don't read any water baptism here for remission of sins, only whosoever believes.

The reality that Peter referenced between the name of Jesus and remission of sin is recorded a few verses later in Acts 47:48:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Only saved converts can receive the Holy Ghost by faith through Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Spirit is recieved by hearing with faith, not by commanded works,

Later, Peter told fellow Jews that he could not withstand God AFTER seeing God fill the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 11:17-18)

Peter acknowledged that they could not forbid water baptism and fellowship to any person receiving the Holy Ghost as they, whether Jew or Greek.

The only thing Peter did after seeing them receive the Holy Ghost was to command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus. This was directly related to remission of sin being received through the name of Jesus that he revealed in verse 43.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

This was directly related to receiving the Holy Ghost as they.

 

[ATG]

Peter stated, "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) The reality that Peter referenced between the name of Jesus and remission of sin is recorded a few verses later in Acts 47:48:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Later, Peter told fellow Jews that he could not withstand God AFTER seeing God fill the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 11:17-18) The only thing Peter did after seeing them receive the Holy Ghost was to command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus. This was directly related to remission of sin being received through the name of Jesus that he revealed in verse 43.

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:17-18).

Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Spirit is recieved by hearing with faith, not by commanded works, whether of flesh circumcision or water baptism.

So, let's compare some coming to preach water baptism to be saved, with certain first coming to preach flesh circumcision to be saved.

First the Jew:

Act 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Now the Christian:

And certain men taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be baptized after the manner of Peter, ye cannot be saved.

We see here the exact comparison of two commanded works to be saved, both being taught by certain people to the brethren.

Both certain of the Jews first and also some of the Christians are doing exactly the same, in preaching a commanded work: It's taught by some not all; It's taught to be saved; And it's taught to the brethren, that have recieved the Spirit by hearing of faith.

And they are also the same works by men's hands: Flesh circumcision and Water baptism.

Peter stated, "To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) The reality that Peter referenced between the name of Jesus and remission of sin is recorded a few verses later in Acts 47:48:

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Later, Peter told fellow Jews that he could not withstand God AFTER seeing God fill the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 11:17-18) The only thing Peter did after seeing them receive the Holy Ghost was to command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus. This was directly related to remission of sin being received through the name of Jesus that he revealed in verse 43.

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:17-18).

Now let's compare the continued idolatrous nature of commanding works to be saved by, first the Jew, then also the Christian:

Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Except ye be baptized after the manner of Peter, ye cannot be saved.

Peter stated, ...Later, Peter told... The only thing Peter did...

This is not out of context, nor by mistake. It's well known that some Christians preach Peter's baptism for remission of sins, the same as certain Jews preached Moses' circumcision to be saved.

1Co 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

And so, we see that the dividing of the brethren, is by idolizing certain prophets and apostles over one another.

Act 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The commanded work is not the same, but certain teachers dividing and troubling the brethren, is the same: First by Moses' flesh circumcision, and now by Peter's water baptism.

This is why the gift of God, cannot be recieved by commanded works of men, who only obey law, rather than receiving by hearing of faith: It's God who chooses when to give His gift of the Spirit at His own pleasure, not when men demand His gift by works of law, whether flesh circumcision or water baptism.

Also, we must consider Simon the magician, who sought to buy the gift of God, and have power of the Spirit by laying on of hands. Are there not also Acts 2:38 baptizers, who also seek the power of salvation, by laying on of hands in water...?

Can there be any doubt of the temptation of idolatry, in doing a work of salvation over others? Are their own hands not a working part of God's saving glory? They are indeed, for without their hands in water, who can be saved. And also, who can be saved without water?

Can God at all give the Spirit by hearing of faith, where the work of water baptism is commanded, else ye cannot be saved?

Afterall, who can possibly receive the Holy Ghost, that is not yet saved by water baptism...?? The house of Cornelius first, then the Galatian brethren...

 

[Wansvic]

Don't read any water baptism here for remission of sins, only whosoever believes.



Only saved converts can receive the Holy Ghost by faith through Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Spirit is recieved by hearing with faith, not by commanded works,


Peter acknowledged that they could not forbid water baptism and fellowship to any person receiving the Holy Ghost as they, whether Jew or Greek.





"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

This was directly related to receiving the Holy Ghost as they.

Read Acts 10:43 again. It clearly states that through the name of Jesus remission of sin takes place. The NT water baptism command reveals the connection between the name of Jesus and remission of sins.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12