Gosh, are you guys still at this? Just do what God wants you to do. Who cares what the other one thinks and says?
Contentment in singlehood
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They are having fun debating. Where else you find people to have such a deep conversation?
I can tell you, most likely not in a marriage. Your wife most like not going to debate with you this deep.
Enjoy
I can tell you, most likely not in a marriage. Your wife most like not going to debate with you this deep.
Enjoy
They are having fun debating. Where else you find people to have such a deep conversation?
I can tell you, most likely not in a marriage. Your wife most like not going to debate with you this deep.
Enjoy
Your wife will also, hopefully, not be beating you over the head about how much better it is to be unmarried.
I have done run out of popcorn 17 times.Gosh, are you guys still at this? Just do what God wants you to do. Who cares what the other one thinks and says?
Filthy nonetheless.
Whatever you use it for, how about just forget about it? Is that "additional biological function" the Lord died for? Did He ever fulfill that function?
Good, then don't.
It's not fine. Eve was not made as Adam's sex slave.
Well, I'm sorry if sex grosses you out for whatever reason. Fortunately, you can choose to abstain if that's the case. Nobody here has any problem with that, as far as I know.
So everyone, even Christian married couples, should abstain from sex, because some guy on the Internet personally finds it gross. An unmarried guy who personally has no desire for marriage or sex, because it personally grosses him out. Sure, I'll consider it. Hahaha! Did Paul tell married couples, or people with sexual desires, to "just forget about it"? I don't think so.
Also, did Jesus die so I can form friendships or get a job? No. Guess I should never make friends or find a job, then!
This is the statement of yours that I was expressing agreement with:
That's what I was agreeing with. And you can date and marry someone without lusting. However, if i's your personal conviction that this is impossible, well, good news: you don't have to ever date or marry.
I don't know why you think a married woman is, by definition, a man's "sex slave." Or why you think a married man, by definition, treats his wife as a "sex slave"? Didn't you say you've never been married, don't know that many married people personally, and can only count your mother among the opposite-sex relationships you've had? And yet you have all this "insight" into how evil and exploitative marriage is, apparently be definition.
Also, just curious, is a married man a woman's "sex slave" as well?
For the fact that sex is a taboo topic every dcent, god fearing person abstains from mentioning.
I thought you agree on not speaking on behalf of "all"? So you've reneged on that? Still speaking for "all"? On the authority of you yourself, another random guy on the internet?
Lord Jesus had friendships - eternal ones; He had a job, a secular one actually, a builder. He led by example in those regards. Did he lead by example in terms of sex? Nice try.
The only good news is that my dear Lord died for my sin on the cross, so I'm saved from eternal damnation!
I was only ridiculing your justification of sexual desire with that term. Explain to me then, why should your spouse's father lead her down the aisle and give their daughter child, he loves more than anything in the world, to you, just so you can screw her to satisfy your filthy desire and fulfill that additional function of your peeing organ?
Only if you're into BDSM.
Look, man, throughout this whole time you just keep playing these cheap tricks on me - first an all-or-nothing false dichotomy, thoat "all" must be like this, "all" must be like that; then you're arguing the abstract concept of marriage, hypothetically assuming a "Christian partner" with no bearing in reality; that is exactly what 'purity culture" is guilty of, this myth of "saving yourself for marriage'，and you're just perpetuating it, and you're being repetitive. Therefore this whole debate is just you making fun of yourself, you're not gonna fool me.Your wife will also, hopefully, not be beating you over the head about how much better it is to be unmarried.
YOU... are accusing HIM... of being repetitive?!?
That's hilarious!
The river accused the trees of being wet. My phone accused the table of being on low battery. The couch accused the ceiling of being fluffy.
I'm not trying to play tricks on you. I'm asking questions to try and test the limits and implications of some novel ideas. Ideas that I've never heard from anyone but you. Ideas that I'm curious about and wonder about and have questions about.
If you have a personal conviction that romance/marriage/sex is evil, well, OK, fine. If you want to push that conviction on everyone else and treat is as Gospel, well, I guess you can do that, too. Maybe you'd be surprised if people don't follow this advice.
I, however, would not be surprised.
Every decent, God-fearing person, eh? I'm assuming you know every decent God-fearing person out there in the world? Look, it's not wrong for a married couple to have sex. It's not even wrong to learn to learn about sex or even to talk about it.
Whether you like it or not, sexuality and reproduction are fundamental parts of being alive. Every living creature has sort of reproductive urge, because God decreed sexuality to be the way most of creation would perpetuate the various species.
In some other comments you've made, you've talked about the sexual urges as something animalistic or primitive, something a wild beast does. Yes, for animals, sexual urges are just physical drives like hunger or thirst. But for human beings, sexuality also involves emotional bonding, self-control, psychological intimacy, things like that. They're good, but they do have to be controlled (see 1 Cor. 7:7-8)
God designed human sexuality. It's supposed to be a physical and spiritual consummation of a man and woman becoming “one flesh” in a lifelong covenant (see Gen. 2:21-24) Jesus reiterates this concept when He gets asked about divorce.: “‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” . (Matt. 19:5-6)
Can sex be perverted by people? Of course! Do we have things like child abuse, sex trafficking (actual sex trafficking, I mean), rape, etc.? Yes, we do, sadly. These things are all perversions, though.
It's kind of like a fire, or electricity. I can use a fire or electricity for good things, and set it within boundaries to keep everyone safe. I can use it to warm my house, or provide power to my house. Those are good things. I could also stick a fork into an electrical outlet, or set a fire inside my house, outside of the fireplace. Those are bad things. But doing these things doesn't make it inherently wrong to use fire or electricity in all scenarios, does it?
I'm not speaking for "all." Your contention was that everyone else should abstain from sex because you, personally, don't like it, and because women can't possible enjoy it. Or something like that. If that's true, why do so many other Christians marry and start families by having children? You do know how they got those children, right?
No, your argument was that people shouldn't marry or have sex because it had nothing do with what Jesus "died for." Meaning sin and human salvation. Apparently, what you meant by that was that if it's not something that Jesus died for, it's not worth pursuing. of course, Jesus didn't "die for" us humans to have a job. So, by your logic, humans should never get jobs? Because getting a job wasn't what Jesus "died for"?
And remember, Jesus came on Earth to die on the cross. His specific mission on Earth had nothing to do with marriage.
What do you mean by "just" so you can S**** her? Ideally, people should not get married just to have sex. I never said anyone should marry just to have sex. A healthy marriage requires more foundations than that, obviously. Also, I know you've nor married, so maybe you don't really know how these sorts of marriages work. In my experience, people usually date, and the man then goes to the father got his permission to marry the father's daughter. if a father is wise, he's not going to give his daughter away to just anyone. A father has to evaluate the suitor, see if he's a godly man who can raise a godly family, care for his daughter, and provide for a family.
When I'm asking questions about "all," I'm trying to responding to arguments that you made about "all." I'm responding to sweeping blanket statements that you made. You'll note that I usually phrase these as questions. Questions that I'm posing to you.
I don't know why, exactly, you think it's completely impossible that there might be another Christian of the opposite sex out there who might make a good marriage partner for you. You think that the only Christians on earth are the people on the sixteen-page Christian Singles Forum? LOL. Take me, for example. I am currently alive and on Earth. Why am I alive? Because I was born to two Christian parents. So my father found a "Christian partner." My mother also found a "Christian partner." But the whole concept of a "Christian partner is, apparently, all "hypothetical" to you, with "no bearing in reality"?
I never said anyone was promised marriage. I never said it was guaranteed that anyone was going to find a partner. I said it's OK to desire a partner and to pursue one. Nowhere in the Bible is marriage promised to Christians. Nowhere in the Bible is the pursuit of marriage forbidden, either.
You are just in denial. You're still saying "everyone" to ridicule me. I'm not surprised either.
If it's all "fine" and "normal", why is it a taboo topic in every culture? Especially in church and other religious groups? Neither fire nor electricity or any other dangerous power source is a taboo topic, but sex most definitely is, why is that?
However those families have their kids is their business in their bedrooms, all I commented is that it's a necessary evil to prolong the human race, causing troubles in the flesh; childbirth is greatly painful, Lord Jesus warned about it, "woe to those who're pregnant and nursing babies in those days!" But if they're willing to bear the consequence, and enjoy it, then I'm in no place to judge.
And you do speak for "all", therein you ASSUME my contention was that "everyone" should abstain from sex. Just strawman tactics, no surprise.
Still speaking for "all", I see. Now let's see, did Lord Jesus have a job? Did the disciples have jobs? Did Paul have a job? Last time I checked they were builder, fishermen and tentmaker, respectively, right? Then answer this - are they role models for us to follow? Are we taught to comform to Lord Jesus? Did Paul tell us to "imitate him"? Yes or no? If yes, then working on a job is following their examples, whether Jesus died for it or not. The point is that they HAD a job. But did any of them ever have sex? Yes or no?
You see, the most pious, faithful, devoted and definitelve redeemded followers are these 144,000 saints, who are specifically labelled as virgins "not defiled by women". You can argue that these have nothing to do with us, but again, are they role models to follow? Do you wanna be sealed by God and protected from the horrors in the end time, like them? I know I do.
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Rev. 14:5)
Then neither does the church's specific mission - "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."
Yes you did, repeatedly, calling it fine and OK.
Except I didn't, I repeatedly asked for a specific marriageable Christian partner, which you still fail to produce.
I think "Christian" has become a cheap label to promote various human agendas, particularly marriage, and it has been commercialized for self-righteousness, anybody can brandize themselves a Christian and spill out a few buzzwords and verses. All I know is that a rising tide lifts all boats.
O really? Does the bible forbid idol worshipping? What's not forbidden is marriage itself, the pursuit thereof though could morph into an idol, that's the whole shebang of the Purity Culture - save yourself from sex for marriage; get married so you can have sex. That's idolatry.
The only opinion that i truly value is that of my wife.Gosh, are you guys still at this? Just do what God wants you to do. Who cares what the other one thinks and says?
The only opinion that i truly value is God's divine providence, throght various sutble signals, anything out of the ordinary.
I'm not making fun of you. I am questioning the sweeping blanket statements you're making.
That's a cultural issue. It's not wrong to talk about sex. Of course, most people tend to avoid such topics when talking to young children, because it's "icky" and hard to understand at that age. Nor do children at young ages show much "romantic" interest in the opposite sex. I sure didn't. When kids enter puberty is when they tend to experience things like attraction and infatuation, or finding so-and-so "hot."
Also, it depends on what culture you're talking about. In my experience, it's not "taboo" talk about sex, either culturally or in church. Of course, in church you'll learn more about why premarital sex is wrong. The world's viewpoints on things like premarital sex are more, shall we say, diverse. And it depends on what church you go to. It's not a taboo subject at my church. But we don't introduce the topic to just any audience, at any time, do we? I don't know if you've ever attended a church youth group. But this is often when these topics start being addressed. We certainly don't address that topic in, say, Sunday school, now do we?
Well, great! I don't consider it an "evil" in and of itself. It depends on how you use it. A sexual act is not "evil" when a married couple consensually engages in marital sex. A sexual act like a rape, of course, would be evil, because rape doesn't involve consent.
Oh. So you don't believe that everyone should abstain from sex. Great! I agree!
Interesting that you mention the disciples. The Bible actually says that Peter was married, because it records Jesus healing Peter’s mother-in-law. And in 1 Corinthians 9:5 we see that "the rest of the apostles" (and Jesus' brothers) traveled with their believing wives, meaning some of the original twelve disciples. So Peter was not the only married apostle. You say the disciples are role models. OK. But not all of the disciples were single.
You also say that Paul told us to imitate him. Presumably you mean that we should, therefore, all stay single like Paul was. Well, what all did Paul himself say on that particular topic? Did he command every Christian to stay single? No.
In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. He says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better for the Corinthians to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.
And we don't know anything about the disciples' sex lives, lol. But even if none of them ever had sex, that doesn't mean it's bad for a married Christian couple today to have sex. I'm sure none of the disciples ever ate cornflakes in their day. Does that mean it's bad for a Christian today to eat cornflakes?
The first mention of these followers is in Revelation 7:4, “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.”
I am not from the "tribes of Israel." Therefore, even if I am around during the Tribulation, I cannot be part of the 144, 000.
Also, another way to translate this is "not defiled among women." Remember, this is the End Times. There's not that many Christians around. The vast majority of the women on Earth in the End Times will be unbelievers, not Christians.
Also, are you saying that, in order to survive the End Times, you have to be single?
If you're in the church, however, you're still allowed to marry. See 1 Corinthians 7. And Hebrews 13:4. And 1 Timothy 4:1-3.
I said it's fine to get married, and good for married couple to have sex. I never said anyone should marry just to have sex.
What? What do you mean?
OK, you just said that "pursuit thereof though could morph into an idol." I agree that is could. But it is possible to pursue marriage without making it into an "idol." Perhaps you disagree. Very well. And I never said that anyone should get married just to have sex. I agree that this is a bad idea. But sexual desires do play a role in the desire for marriage. Even Paul acknowledged that in 1 Corinthians 7.
You're the only making blanket statements by misrepresenting "everyone".
Yeah says you a random guy on the internet obsessed with sex, push a vulgar narrative calling peeing organ 'sex organ". I thought church community is supposed to be a sanctuary AWAY from the depraved, pornified culture, and you feel good having it in your church, don't you? What makes it "fine and OK" is the sexual revolution, you just don't know the this toxic air you're breathing in. Just because it's normalIZED doesn' mean it's normal in the eyes of God.
Maybe you should ask the lady's opinion on this, after all, consent is hers to give, pregnancy is THE most important and consequential decision in a woman's entire life, they'd bear the brut of all your so called "OK" desires, what's evil is you ignoring all of these and pushing your narrative on them, as though you own their bodies.
I beleive you'r still misrepresenting "everyone" with your blanket statements.
You don't know that, the original word for "wife" means woman in general. In KJV it reads "a wife, a sister", not Peter's in particular.
I'm talking about what they DID, deed speaks louder than words.And again, all things are lawful, but not all thing are beneficial.
Are they role models for future Christians to follow or not? Do you wanna be sealed by the Holy Spirit or not, Eph. 1:13? Is that for"tribes of Israel" or all Christians? Is it worth taking the risk of being "defiled by woman" at the cost of your eternal life?
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful." "So then he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better."
What do you mean by marriage? Are you suggesting marry yourself or an AI partner?
Yes you did, you've been consistently doing that.
Someone call the Guinness book of records. I think Lovette and Rod might be setting a world record for pointless arguing past each other (but then I stay out of the BDF so maybe this is just par for the course there).
No, I'm responding to points you're making by asking you questions. You seem to think that it's better for everyone to stay single, right? I'm responding to that by asking you questions. That's why those questions I'm writing all have question marks at the end. LOL!
I didn't know an explanation of human biology and biological functions was "vulgar." My bad. LOL.
Are you talking about sex, in general? There's healthy ways to have sex. Like between a married couple. There's also unhealthy and sinful ways to have sex. Are you saying that a married couple having sex is not "normal in the eyes of God"? Where does the Bible say that?
Huh? I never said that. I mentioned the importance of consent. Tell me, if a couple dates, the man proposes, the woman accepts the proposal, the families approve of the match, the couple gets married, and the two spouses then agree to have sex together — at what point in this entire process is sex "evil"? And now you claim that I'm claiming I "own their bodies"? Huh? What are you talking about?
That verse is talking about Peter's mother-in-law. The Greek word used here means "mother-in-law" or, more literally, "wife's mother." So it was Peter's wife's mother. Meaning Peter had a wife. You can't have a mother-in-law without having a spouse.
Oh. So getting married is lawful. I agree! Is getting married always beneficial? Well, it depends on the person and the circumstances. The Bible contains no blanket prohibition on marrying. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul even condemns people who forbid people from marrying.
To answer one of your questions here, the 144,000 refer to a group of Jewish believers from the twelve tribes of Israel who are alive during the Apocalypse. I am not from any of the tribes of Israel. Therefore, if I'm still alive during the Apocalypse, I cannot be part of the 144,000.
"So then he who gives her in marriage does well." Oh. "Does well." It doesn't say "does badly." Very interesting! And again, this isn't Paul's only statement about marriage. He says some other interesting and nuanced things, too.
No, I don't recommend marrying yourself or an AI partner. Hahaha!
This proves so single Christians have plenty of free time, freedom!!! Baby 
!
!
Yes you are. Still, "everyone".
Because you don't know sex talk is vulgar, it's an avoided taboo topic for a reason.
"Healthy" is just a marketing buzzword, Where does the Bible specifically label it that way?
I'm talking about a string of unsubstantiated assumptions only exist in fiction and your idealistic, argumentative mind. It is as realistic as the Sadduccees' tale of "seven brothers and one widow."
All speculations, you don't know any of that. Saul of Tartus as a pharisee might have been married, but he surely left after his conversion, and Peter might have followed the same path.
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful."
Are they role models for future Christians to follow or not? Do you wanna be sealed by the Holy Spirit or not, Eph. 1:13? Is that for "tribes of Israel" or all Christians? Is it worth taking the risk of being "defiled by woman" at the cost of your eternal life?
Then what do you mean by marriage?