Should Christians Use Dating Apps?

[Lovette]

I was right.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Come on, Lovette. You have to read the entire chapter. I know you can do it. I believe in you!

Come on, I dare you to dismiss the entire chapter as Paul's personal opinion, since "not everyone's like him." I believe in you!

People only get married in fairytales?

No, just your "simple concept". Real life's never simple.

You ignored his caveats again. Just like I knew you would. Incredible.

It is you who repeatedly ignored Paul's status and background, not me. I don't know about you, in my culture, people don't listen to abstract theories, but lived experience.

Is that how you view the concept of two people agreeing to go on a first date, agreeing to go on more dates, and then deciding to begin a dating relationship. And then, potentially, getting engaged, and agreeing to marry? Your world and your mind is a truly fascinating place.

Answer my question - who gave you the right to hassle other decent human beings to satisfy your own carnal desire? Did they or their family owe you a million dollars or something? Why would they agree to go on a date with you in the first place when they could've spent their leisure time on something else - or someone else - more meaningful? That's not a "concept", that's your own baseless assumption which only exists in romantic novels. It is your own mind that's stuck in a truly fascinating place, not me.

It's also apparently, one of the most terrible choices anyone could ever make.

Then don't make it.

 

[Lovette]

No worries, might not even be a concern and ultimately he's responsible for himself. It definitely seems like poor comprehension is part of the issue but anyone so allergic to logic and comfortable with lying will say pretty much anything and think they are proving their point lol. It's like playing chess with a pigeon.... while you're busy strategizing the pigeon is just knocking over random pieces, then takes a dump on the board and struts off thinking he won .

I do have a sliver of hope for him as well though. He might be capable of growth in very small doses. I think his previous account was even worse so maybe he's still evolving lol. If he quits it with the pants-drop talk we'll know he's actually capable of listening .

His disorder is such that opposition just makes him feel more determined. Logic is irrelevant; it's all about defending so that he never has to apologize or admit he's wrong (i.e. he's terrified of being/appearing vulnerable).

Perhaps that will change one day but right now all he can handle is baby food and baby steps.

And my sliver of hope for you is to discern the perilous time we're living in, open your eyes to see the trainwreck of today's broken dating culture, and trust in the sufficiency of Lord Jesus's saving grace.

 

[JohnDB]

You and your single friends are all hanging out at the beach...

But Lovett says he/she is specially chosen by God....

https://twitter.com/x/status/2094321791015559343

 

[Lovette]

You and your single friends are all hanging out at the beach...

But Lovett says he/she is specially chosen by God....

https://twitter.com/x/status/2094321791015559343

I was merely chosen by a backwater culture where dating was frowned upon, it was for losers, perverts and delinquencies who proactively go out looking for trouble.

 

[Jackson129]

Be fruitful and multiply.
Just be single while doing it? Come on here.

 

[Churchgoer]

Dating site is only a public place let you virtually meet other singles.
Please understand internet exchange is not real dating.
Real dating is meeting in person, meeting each other's social groups in person, everything in person.

 

[Snackersmom]

I love the pigeon analogy, that cracked me up!

I do sympathize, for sure, and not even in a condescending kind of way. I want to help him understand these things so badly. But, I'm only responsible for me.

We can only do so much. And it seems like we've done a lot at this point!

I don't remember where I heard the pigeon analogy but yeah, seemed fitting

I have compassion for him as well; these mindsets don't develop on their own. I've had run-ins with other Christian stoics and they were all emotionally and/or physically abused as kids. Most were held to a ridiculously high standard wherein the slightest mistake was met with absurdly disproportionate punishment and ridicule. Typically criticism outweighed praise by a very strong margin.

Anyway, some psyches develop a tough exterior to ward it all off. It's like a survival instinct. Their heads are so full of criticism that they just can't handle opposition of any sort, even when they are blatantly incorrect. Minor disagreements hyper-activate his nervous system and feel like attacks so are answered as such. Hence the double standard; if we disagree with him we are being aggressive and shouldn't speak; if he disagrees with us it's fine because he is just defending what is "right"

I get wanting to correct his doctrine, but until he addresses the issues listed above I don't think he'll be physically able to hear any of it. He probably needs prayer more than anything.

This is just me, but I'm going to step back and see if he cools it with the pants-drop talk. If he does then I might engage further regarding lying & misquoting people but we shall see .

 

[Lovette]

This is just me, but I'm going to step back and see if he cools it with the pants-drop talk. If he does then I might engage further regarding lying & misquoting people but we shall see .

My only intention was to warn you about such perps who date women only for a roll in the hay. It was just the result of hookup culture, which dating apps greatly facilitates, they are designed to make matches for such short term hookups, not long term relationships. #MeToo just exposed all of these. If you think this is just exaggeration or blown out of proportion, just leave it. I don't wanna have anything to do with it, abstinance and stoicism are just rational reactions to today's broken dating landscape.

 

[Lovette]

Dating site is only a public place let you virtually meet other singles.
Please understand internet exchange is not real dating.
Real dating is meeting in person, meeting each other's social groups in person, everything in person.

No, that's where you get scammed. You're a fool to have post your sensative personal information online for all to see and harvest.

 

[Churchgoer]

No, that's where you get scammed. You're a fool to have post your sensative personal information online for all to see and harvest.

What about this Christianchat.com?

 

[Lovette]

What about this Christianchat.com?

Neither is this place for dating nor is any real personal info posted.

 

[Churchgoer]

Neither is this place for dating nor is any real personal info posted.

This Agree.
Treat them all the same.

 

[RodColeman]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

You misunderstood me. Again.

Come on, I dare you to dismiss the entire chapter as Paul's personal opinion, since "not everyone's like him." I believe in you!

No, just your "simple concept". Real life's never simple.

So people never get married in real life?

It is you who repeatedly ignored Paul's status and background, not me. I don't know about you, in my culture, people don't listen to abstract theories, but lived experience.

Except for the "lived experience" of people who decide to get married and enjoy happy marriages, apparently. Maybe in your culture this simple concept is nonexistent?

Answer my question - who gave you the right to hassle other decent human beings to satisfy your own carnal desire?

I don't know how your formulate your ideas about how people meet, date, decide they find each other attractive, decide they're worth marrying, and then decide to marry. This simple concept seems to be completely alien to whatever strange planet you live on.

Did they or their family owe you a million dollars or something?

Huh?!

Why would they agree to go on a date with you in the first place when they could've spent their leisure time on something else - or someone else - more meaningful?

Are you saying that, on your planet, dates never happen? And nobody ever finds anybody interesting, and nobody ever agrees to go on a date? I must visit this world sometime. It sounds fascinating.

That's not a "concept", that's your own baseless assumption which only exists in romantic novels. It is your own mind that's stuck in a truly fascinating place, not me.

It is a "baseless assumption" that some people go on dates, find each other interesting and attractive, build a relationship, become boyfriend and girlfriend, and then eventually decide to get married?

Then don't make it.

I was being sarcastic.

You didn't engage with a single point I raised here. Incredible.

I was merely chosen by a backwater culture where dating was frowned upon, it was for losers, perverts and delinquencies who proactively go out looking for trouble.

Well, "cultural differences" are a real thing. Maybe you simply have struggles adjusting to American or Western culture. I don't know.

My only intention was to warn you about such perps who date women only for a roll in the hay.

From what I understand, you do not focus just on these "perps." You want every Christian who's currently single to remain single. That's how I understand you. Am I wrong?

In any case, what does it matter? Isn't it true that you, personally, have no desire to date or get married? That's fine. And, yeah, people are dating and getting married. So what? Who cares? Why does all of this stuff bother you so much? How does any of this stuff affect you in any negative way? Why are you making it your life mission to prevent dating? Apparently via the medium of an obscure Internet chat forum?

Why do you insist on minding other people's business for them?

 

[Lynx]

Rod, Lovette, your old thread called. Remember contentment? It says it misses you.

 

[Lovette]

So people never get married in real life?

In real life, marriage is not a uniquely religious practice for Christians only, getting married doesn't make any Christian more pious, and neither does piety in Christianity guarantees happy marriage.

Except for the "lived experience" of people who decide to get married and enjoy happy marriages, apparently. Maybe in your culture this simple concept is nonexistent?

Yes, almost. The ones I know got married under familial and peer pressure, their lives are burdensome, and they don't seem to enjoy, they're on their phones constantly, communications are complaints, gossips, demands or quarrels.

I don't know how your formulate your ideas about how people meet, date, decide they find each other attractive, decide they're worth marrying, and then decide to marry. This simple concept seems to be completely alien to whatever strange planet you live on.

Each person has their own way, there's no one size fits all recipe - such as dating app. Who am I to formulate my own ideas for other people? And who are you to formulate yours for them?

Are you saying that, on your planet, dates never happen? And nobody ever finds anybody interesting, and nobody ever agrees to go on a date? I must visit this world sometime. It sounds fascinating.

You misunderstood me. In where I live, people who follow Christ don't bother with dating, people who date don't bother with Christ.

It is a "baseless assumption" that some people go on dates, find each other interesting and attractive, build a relationship, become boyfriend and girlfriend, and then eventually decide to get married?

No, not a baseless assumption for an idealist; yes, indeed a baseless assumption for a realist.

I was being sarcastic.

You didn't engage with a single point I raised here. Incredible.

Prick yourself with that sharp point of yours, report to me how it feels, then I'll consider to engage.

Well, "cultural differences" are a real thing. Maybe you simply have struggles adjusting to American or Western culture. I don't know.

Whatever you think as "American or Western culture" is long gone, what you have is algorithmatically fragmented little silos, I don't see anything from your feed, you don't see anything from mine.

From what I understand, you do not focus just on these "perps." You want every Christian who's currently single to remain single. That's how I understand you. Am I wrong?

Yes you are, that's what Paul taught - married remain married, singles remain single; you're free to marry, at the price of fleshly troubles; marriage is for the weak who lack self control; time is short, mind godly things over worldly things. Anything "else" is your own opinion.

In any case, what does it matter? Isn't it true that you, personally, have no desire to date or get married? That's fine. And, yeah, people are dating and getting married. So what? Who cares? Why does all of this stuff bother you so much? How does any of this stuff affect you in any negative way? Why are you making it your life mission to prevent dating? Apparently via the medium of an obscure Internet chat forum?

Why do you insist on minding other people's business for them?

Other people's love life is their own business, but promoting it in the house of God and sticking a Christian label on it is not. Yes, people are dating and getting married, and I'm not judging them as good or bad, I've said it a million times that the quality of a relationship soly depends on the quality of the couple.

What I insist on minding is these worldly garbage being romanticized, glamorized, spiritualized and sold to the congregation as a "foretaste of heaven," while Lord Jesus taught the opposite - Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage." So yes, we're still living in "this age", whatever you think as a foretaste of heaven is actually a pungent taste of this age, forgive me for wanting a REAL foretaste of heaven.

 

[RodColeman]

In real life, marriage is not a uniquely religious practice for Christians only, getting married doesn't make any Christian more pious, and neither does piety in Christianity guarantees happy marriage.

I don't think anyone here has asserted any of these things.

Yes, almost. The ones I know got married under familial and peer pressure, their lives are burdensome, and they don't seem to enjoy, they're on their phones constantly, communications are complaints, gossips, demands or quarrels.

OK. But you don't know every single Christian married couple, do you? I guess we have just different life experiences, then.

Each person has their own way, there's no one size fits all recipe - such as dating app.

I never said a dating app was a "one-size-fits-all recipe."

Who am I to formulate my own ideas for other people?

That's funny. Haven't you been saying that everyone should stay single?

And who are you to formulate yours for them?

Which "one-size-fits-all recipe" have I been pushing?

You misunderstood me. In where I live, people who follow Christ don't bother with dating, people who date don't bother with Christ.

Alright. I guess we just have different experiences, then.

No, not a baseless assumption for an idealist; yes, indeed a baseless assumption for a realist.

So you've never seen any of these things happen. Therefore they're not real. Um, OK. I have.

Prick yourself with that sharp point of yours, report to me how it feels, then I'll consider to engage.

Whatever that means.

Whatever you think as "American or Western culture" is long gone, what you have is algorithmatically fragmented little silos, I don't see anything from your feed, you don't see anything from mine.

The simple concept of people dating and marrying is long gone? Maybe wherever you live, OK.

Yes you are, that's what Paul taught - married remain married, singles remain single; you're free to marry, at the price of fleshly troubles; marriage is for the weak who lack self control; time is short, mind godly things over worldly things. Anything "else" is your own opinion.

OK, interestingly, you actually started to acknowledge the other stuff that Paul said on this topic here. Alright. Baby steps!

Also curious that you view people who get married as "weak." Do you view you view yourself as superior to married folks, simply because they're married? Is some of this a pride thing, too?

Other people's love life is their own business.....

Oh, great! Doesn't seem like you always believe that, though.

....but promoting it in the house of God and sticking a Christian label on it is not.

What do you mean "promoting"? Did Paul "promote" marriage when he allowed people to get married, and condemned people who forbade it?

Yes, people are dating and getting married, and I'm not judging them as good or bad, I've said it a million times that the quality of a relationship solely depends on the quality of the couple.

Oh, you're not judging it as bad. OK. Great!

What I insist on minding is these worldly garbage being romanticized, glamorized, spiritualized and sold to the congregation as a "foretaste of heaven," while Lord Jesus taught the opposite - Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage." So yes, we're still living in "this age", whatever you think as a foretaste of heaven is actually a pungent taste of this age, forgive me for wanting a REAL foretaste of heaven.

Yeah. There's no marriage in Heaven. But we're not in Heaven right now. If you don't want to marry, that's fine.

Still, I don't see why that makes it OK for you look down your nose at people who do marry and desire marriage, and judge those people. Paul also says good things about singleness, but he didn't judge the people who desired marriage and got married, now, did he?

Let people desire marriage, and marry if they wish. How do those people and their personal decisions affect you in any negative way?

 

[Lovette]

I don't think anyone here has asserted any of these things.

Ask yourself why dating/romance/marriage is such an obsession of you guys, why can't you take it easy like other luxuries and privileges, if it's not a uniquely Christian practice.

OK. But you don't know every single Christian married couple, do you? I guess we have just different life experiences, then.

I respect their privacy, I'm not a nosy busybody gossipping about other people's lives.

I never said a dating app was a "one-size-fits-all recipe."

Then stop promoting it.

That's funny. Haven't you been saying that everyone should stay single?

No I haven't. What I said is: "married remain married, singles remain single; you're free to marry, at the price of fleshly troubles; marriage is for the weak who lack self control; time is short, mind godly things over worldly things. Anything "else" is your own opinion."

Which "one-size-fits-all recipe" have I been pushing?

You constantly speak for all, you tell me.

So you've never seen any of these things happen. Therefore they're not real. Um, OK. I have.

I've seen all of those things happen - in my favorite rom coms and dramas. I didn't say they're absolutely not real, they could be real in the past for the boomers and Gen Xers, and they could be real for some rich folks who have the time and money for it, but as I said, in where I live, people who follow Christ don't bother with dating, people who date don't bother with Christ.

Whatever that means.

You tell me what you meant by your "point".

The simple concept of people dating and marrying is long gone? Maybe wherever you live, OK.

Yes, because it's never "simple".

OK, interestingly, you actually started to acknowledge the other stuff that Paul said on this topic here. Alright. Baby steps!

Also curious that you view people who get married as "weak." Do you view you view yourself as superior to married folks, simply because they're married? Is some of this a pride thing, too?

I never said that, it's just another of your baseless assumptions. Self control is one of the spiritual fruits, and marriage is prescribed for those who "lack self control", all Paul's words, not mine. Pride thing or not, you draw your own conclusion.

What do you mean "promoting"? Did Paul "promote" marriage when he allowed people to get married, and condemned people who forbade it?

What do you mean by all your rhetorical questions? Go check your previous posts for your own opinion on dating apps.

Yeah. There's no marriage in Heaven. But we're not in Heaven right now. If you don't want to marry, that's fine.

Still, I don't see why that makes it OK for you look down your nose at people who do marry and desire marriage, and judge those people. Paul also says good things about singleness, but he didn't judge the people who desired marriage and got married, now, did he?

Let people desire marriage, and marry if they wish. How do those people and their personal decisions affect you in any negative way?

The grand narrative of purity culture, that marriage completes you, singlehood is but a preparing stage for marriage, not only in the church but also in the broad secular culture, affects everyone in a negative way, because it worships marriage as an idol, falsely assumes marriage is the norm for everyone, even though that is no longer that case, marriage has been in decline for decades, there're more single adults than married, and it's never a unique Christian thing.

I do not judge any married couples, their choices and troubles are their own. I only judge the preachers of this false prosperity gospel, selling Jesus as a matchmaker and marriage as the reward. "Marriage a foretaste of heaven" is just a prominent example.

 

[RodColeman]

Ask yourself why dating/romance/marriage is such an obsession of you guys, why can't you take it easy like other luxuries and privileges, if it's not a uniquely Christian practice.

Alright. I'll consider your advice.

I respect their privacy, I'm not a nosy busybody gossipping about other people's lives.

How is it "gossip" to simply observe the simple fact that happily married couples exist? Then, again, you don't believe in such a possibility, for some reason.

Then stop promoting it.

No I haven't. What I said is: "married remain married, singles remain single; you're free to marry, at the price of fleshly troubles; marriage is for the weak who lack self control; time is short, mind godly things over worldly things. Anything "else" is your own opinion."

Wait, people are free to marry? Oh, OK. Great!

You constantly speak for all, you tell me.

Oh, I see that grammatical misunderstanding persists. Ah, well!

I've seen all of those things happen - in my favorite rom coms and dramas. I didn't say they're absolutely not real, they could be real in the past for the boomers and Gen Xers, and they could be real for some rich folks who have the time and money for it, but as I said, in where I live, people who follow Christ don't bother with dating, people who date don't bother with Christ.

Where do you, live, exactly? This place sounds fascinating.

You tell me what you meant by your "point".

You didn't understand my points? Alright, then.

I never said that, it's just another of your baseless assumptions. Self control is one of the spiritual fruits, and marriage is prescribed for those who "lack self control", all Paul's words, not mine. Pride thing or not, you draw your own conclusion.

Self-control over what? It's one thing to have control over sinful desires. But the desire for romance/marriage/sex is not sinful. Otherwise Paul would be saying it's OK to sin. Does that sound like something Paul would teach?

What do you mean by all your rhetorical questions? Go check your previous posts for your own opinion on dating apps.

I wasn't addressing dating apps in this particular question.

The grand narrative of purity culture, that marriage completes you, singlehood is but a preparing stage for marriage, not only in the church but also in the broad secular culture, affects everyone in a negative way, because it worships marriage as an idol, falsely assumes marriage is the norm for everyone, even though that is no longer that case, marriage has been in decline for decades, there're more single adults than married, and it's never a unique Christian thing.

And how does that affect you, personally? What direct negative effects do you see in your own life when other people decide to date and marry? You don't want to marry, so why do you care whether other people do?

No one ever demanded that I get married. But, that's just me.

I do not judge any married couples, their choices and troubles are their own. I only judge the preachers of this false prosperity gospel, selling Jesus as a matchmaker and marriage as the reward. "Marriage a foretaste of heaven" is just a prominent example.

Well, I don't know which preachers you listen to, but nobody's ever taught me that Jesus is a matchmaker or that God rewards anyone with marriage.

That's just me, though.

 

[Lovette]

Alright. I'll consider your advice.



How is it "gossip" to simply observe the simple fact that happily married couples exist? Then, again, you don't believe in such a possibility, for some reason.







Wait, people are free to marry? Oh, OK. Great!



Oh, I see that grammatical misunderstanding persists. Ah, well!



Where do you, live, exactly? This place sounds fascinating.



You didn't understand my points? Alright, then.



Self-control over what? It's one thing to have control over sinful desires. But the desire for romance/marriage/sex is not sinful. Otherwise Paul would be saying it's OK to sin. Does that sound like something Paul would teach?



I wasn't addressing dating apps in this particular question.



And how does that affect you, personally? What direct negative effects do you see in your own life when other people decide to date and marry? You don't want to marry, so why do you care whether other people do?

No one ever demanded that I get married. But, that's just me.



Well, I don't know which preachers you listen to, but nobody's ever taught me that Jesus is a matchmaker or that God rewards anyone with marriage.

That's just me, though.

"Marriage is not a reward for purity in singleness, and prolonged singleness is not a curse for sexual sin." You wanna date, go for it, and be enslaved by your own desire. Lord Jesus has delivered me from mine, hallelujah.

All that I'm asking is leave Christianity out of dating and leave dating out of Christianity. I don't yell at you for dating/romance/marriage, I yell at you for mixing the sacred with the profane. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-we-kiss-purity-goodbye

 

[RodColeman]

"Marriage is not a reward for purity in singleness, and prolonged singleness is not a curse for sexual sin."

I never asserted either of these things.

You wanna date, go for it, and be enslaved by your own desire. Lord Jesus has delivered me from mine, hallelujah.

Maybe He'll rescue you from your desires for sleep, good food, etc. next. What about all the married couples in the Christian world? Are all of them "enslaved," as you put it? Most pastors and church elders are married, in my experience. Would you call them "enslaved"? Why didn't God "rescue" them?

All that I'm asking is leave Christianity out of dating and leave dating out of Christianity.

Christian principles are relevant to the topic of romance/dating/marriage. Just like they're relevant to lots of important issues. So, no. I won't. Sorry.

I don't yell at you for dating/romance/marriage, I yell at you for mixing the sacred with the profane. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/did-we-kiss-purity-goodbye

Not sure what your point with this article is. This article emphasizes the importance of sexual purity. Not the importance of choosing to stay single forever. This author is, actually, married. He even wrote a book about dating, actually, that I've read. And nowhere in the Bible is marriage called "profane."

You seem to think that we should only apply Christian principles to certain areas of life. Or that Christian values have nothing relevant to add to topics like dating. Alright, then. Believe what you want. I don't suppose it makes any difference, given that you, personally, have no desire to date or marry. Fine with me.

Don't worry, Lovette! I'm not trying to convince you to date or get married! You're free to avoid that terrible, dreadful fate if you wish!