Are Christians going to be around during the start of the tribulation??

[ib4gzus]

Goodness this is so so simple. IN matthew 24, when he's speaking privately to his disciples he says..

when YOU see the abomination of desolation.......when YOU hear of false Messiahs....


If Christians are raptured during that tribulation...how could THEY have seen or heard what he was clearly warning THEM of?

This really isn't as difficult to figure out as some are making it.

___________________________________________________________________________
This phrase originally referred to the desecreation of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes. Antichus invaded Jerusalem in 168 BC. He made the alter into a shr ine to Zeus and even sacrificed a pig on it. ( some think this was when the temple was destroyed in AD 70) But Jesue was looking yet a future abomination of desolation when the Antichrist sets up his image in the temple during the future tribulation. Christ looks beyond the events of AD 70 to a time of even greater global cataclysm that will preceed his Second Coming.

The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation.

 

[1still_waters]

I'm sorry if my OH DUH comment came across as something mean or rude. I was just reflecting to folks my internal thought process when I learn something new that was right in front of my nose all along.

 

[1still_waters]

___________________________________________________________________________
This phrase originally referred to the desecreation of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes. Antichus invaded Jerusalem in 168 BC. He made the alter into a shr ine to Zeus and even sacrificed a pig on it. ( some think this was when the temple was destroyed in AD 70) But Jesue was looking yet a future abomination of desolation when the Antichrist sets up his image in the temple during the future tribulation. Christ looks beyond the events of AD 70 to a time of even greater global cataclysm that will preceed his Second Coming.

The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation.

Well yeah cuz it is simple. If ya slow down and read who and when he's talking to, it's very simple. Sometimes someone else's interpretation can cloud us from seeing what's right there in front of us and is very simple.

 

[1still_waters]

___________________________________________________________________________
This phrase originally referred to the desecreation of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes. Antichus invaded Jerusalem in 168 BC. He made the alter into a shr ine to Zeus and even sacrificed a pig on it. ( some think this was when the temple was destroyed in AD 70) But Jesue was looking yet a future abomination of desolation when the Antichrist sets up his image in the temple during the future tribulation. Christ looks beyond the events of AD 70 to a time of even greater global cataclysm that will preceed his Second Coming.

The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation.

No he clearly said to them when YOU see...when YOU hear.


It's like when he told his disciples to go get him a Donkey on Palm sunday.


He wasn't telling people 2000 years in the future to go get one for him. He was speaking to THEM!

We can read his direct YOU statements to THEM and understand he meant them and not us, just like we can read his insturction to them to get him a donkey and we know he wasn't speaking to us.

 

[ib4gzus]

ok im trying to figure you out, Still Water.

are you saying The diciples are going to go through the Tribulation?
or
are you saying The Bible is false because he told the diciple they would see and hear this?

or what? i dont get you?




forgive me im kinda new.

 

[zone]

___________________________________________________________________________
This phrase originally referred to the desecreation of the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes. Antichus invaded Jerusalem in 168 BC. He made the alter into a shr ine to Zeus and even sacrificed a pig on it. ( some think this was when the temple was destroyed in AD 70) But Jesue was looking yet a future abomination of desolation when the Antichrist sets up his image in the temple during the future tribulation. Christ looks beyond the events of AD 70 to a time of even greater global cataclysm that will preceed his Second Coming.

The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation.

Jesus was referring to 70AD. two questions are asked by the disciples.

a rebuilt temple in and of itself would (will) be an abomination.

you're mixing two eschatological systems that don't work: looks like some unfulfilled daniel mixed in.

where you get this idea i have no clue:

"The Diciples will not be alive at the Tribulation"

christians will be alive during the final showdown, and some right at the Second Advent.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

 

[ib4gzus]

I wonder if, since the "blood of the saints" is mentioned and there are most definitely martyrs in Revelation, the hour of trial or temptation is something different than the suffering of the saints? The NIV reads "the hour of trial".

I think these are the verses you are referring to:

Revelation 6:9,10,11
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the
altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and
for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge
and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every
one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should
rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also
and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were],
should be fulfilled.

These are those that were lost at the beginning of the Tribulation, but have come to believe. but there belief has cost them their lives.


Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


who are these people ?


Revelation 7:13,14

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed
in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

this is people who went into the tribulation as lost or unbelieving, but they believed in Jesus and refuse the antichrist.

(People can be saved during the Tribulation Period, but they will be tortured and killed, sent strong delusions so they would believe a lie that they all may be dammed. Anyone saved during the tribulation period will suffer greatly)


Today is the day of salvation!

 

[notIbutChrist]

Originally Posted by notIbutChrist

There is no verse that says the Holy Spirit will be removed, but there is one that says He will not

Can you quote that verse? Please?

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[TheAristocat]

I think these are the verses you are referring to:

Revelation 6:9,10,11
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the
altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and
for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying,
How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge
and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every
one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should
rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also
and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were],
should be fulfilled.

These are those that were lost at the beginning of the Tribulation, but have come to believe. but there belief has cost them their lives.


Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


who are these people ?


Revelation 7:13,14

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed
in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

this is people who went into the tribulation as lost or unbelieving, but they believed in Jesus and refuse the antichrist.

(People can be saved during the Tribulation Period, but they will be tortured and killed, sent strong delusions so they would believe a lie that they all may be dammed. Anyone saved during the tribulation period will suffer greatly)


Today is the day of salvation!

Ah I see. I wonder if there is any reference to the saints that are raptured coming back to the New Jerusalem during the Millennial Reign of Christ or if it is just the dead saints that are resurrected then and the raptured saints don't get to take part in the New Jerusalem.

 

[violakat]

The Holy Spirit will never be removed from God's people even though they go through tribulation.
Matthew 28:20
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
John 16:7
(7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:33
(33) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is the main set of verses that refer to what I'm talking about. It's found in 2 Thessalonians 2

 

[Mikebass]

I don't care about what will happen to me, is up to Him.. I'll be persecuted or I will be raptured, I don't mind either.. My brain is so limited to understand God's way which is unlimited.. My brain also has been polluted to understand God's way which is holy..

I believe that there is rapture for the saints.. But if I false and its not going to happen, I will keep my faith in HIM.. His grace is enough.. Let THY will be Done on me..
Habakkuk 3: 17-19

" Though the fig tree does not bud
and there are no grapes on the vines,
though the olive crop fails
and the fields produce no food,
though there are no sheep in the pen
and no cattle in the stalls,
18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD,
I will be joyful in God my Savior. 19 The Sovereign LORD is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to tread on the heights"

God Bless you All..

 

[Laodicea]

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is the main set of verses that refer to what I'm talking about. It's found in 2 Thessalonians 2

What is your question concerning these verses?

 

[peterT]

I think we will be raptured before the 7 years of tribulation... God always took care of people who loved Him, like Noah and also Lot....Also in Revelation in the first 3 capitals the church is mentiont 19 times, and then from Rev 4 till 19 no more...
But if we are or if we are not, more important is that we are prepared for the coming of Jesus : ) Are you??

7 years

Genesis 29:27Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.

Daniel 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And HE (prince of this world) shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the midst of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

John12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Matt24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


The prince of this world shall confirm the holy covenant with many for seven years and in the middle of the seven years will go against the holy agreement and place there or set up there the abomination of desolation and then shall great tribulation begin.

 

[Laodicea]

[FONT=&quot]Daniel 9:26-27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](26)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (Israel) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](27)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]In verse 26, after Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem was destroyed. And in verse 27, Jerusalem was destroyed after the Prince caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease! The critical question at this juncture is, does the New Testament shed any light on how the destiny of the Messiah is linked to the fate of the second city and temple? The answer is a resounding yes![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Of particular significance is the parable of Matthew 21:33-44 where Jesus reviewed the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]history of Israel in five stages:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 1[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: God sent servants to Israel to gather fruit in harvest season but Israel rejected[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God’s messengers (verses 34-35).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 2[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: God then sent more servants and Israel did the same with them (verse 36).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]3: God then sent them His own Son and they killed Him (verses 37-39).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 4[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: The wicked men who killed the Son were destroyed (verse 41)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stage # 5[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]: The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles (verse 43; Acts[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13:46-47).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These five stages of Israel’s history as described in Matthew 21:33-44 parallel very closely the same stages of Israel’s history as described in Daniel 9:[/FONT]

 

[zone]

Daniel 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And HE (prince of this world) shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the midst of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(prince of this world) as in SATAN?

get a clue peter.
that's referring to JESUS! don't add stuff in!
that's all fulfilled!

 

[peterT]

(prince of this world) as in SATAN?

get a clue peter.
that's referring to JESUS! don't add stuff in!
that's all fulfilled!

no you get a clue Zone.

Jesus never made any agreement with anyone for 7 years.

 

[zone]

no you get a clue Zone.

Jesus never made any agreement with anyone for 7 years.

mmmmm..............how can this be SO HARD???
nm.
carry on with your Scofieldism.
attribute the Finished Work of Christ laid out in Daniel 9 to the devil if you want to.
whatever.

 

[tribesman]

...carry on with your Scofieldism. attribute the Finished Work of Christ laid out in Daniel 9 to the devil if you want to. whatever.

I call that heresy scoffieldism.

2Pet.3

[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

 

[ib4gzus]

Ah I see. I wonder if there is any reference to the saints that are raptured coming back to the New Jerusalem during the Millennial Reign of Christ or if it is just the dead saints that are resurrected then and the raptured saints don't get to take part in the New Jerusalem.

The saints that are raptured before the Tribulation begins, are in heaven or with God while the Tribulation goes on. At the end of the Tribulation the saints (who were raptured) return (verse 14)with The King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Revelation 19:11-16
(KJV)



11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

this is The Second Coming Of Christ. Satan will be bound 1000 years and we (ALL THE SAINTS) go directly into the 1000 Year Reign Of Christ.

LATER comes the White Throne Judgement

and then The New Jerusalem. (SEPERATE EVENTS)

 

[Ronin]

sorry guys I am not a believer of the Rapture