Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Revelation1v8]

You’re not wrong that “spirit” in Scripture can mean invisible (John 4:24), but the move you’re making—“Jesus in spirit form ate with Abraham, therefore spirit‑beings can eat, therefore our resurrection bodies are spirit‑bodies that only appear physical”—breaks the text’s own categories, because Jesus Himself draws a hard line between a spirit and a resurrected body: “a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have” (Luke 24:39).
He doesn’t say “a spirit doesn’t need flesh and bones,” or “a spirit can manifest flesh and bones,” but “a spirit does not have flesh and bones,” and then He proves He has them by eating fish (Luke 24:42–43) and showing wounds (John 20:27). Genesis 18 never says the Lord and the angels were in “spirit form” when they ate with Abraham; it simply says “three men stood by him” (Gen 18:2), and Abraham treats them as physical men—washing feet, preparing food, watching them eat.
Nothing in the text calls their bodies illusions or manifestations.
And resurrection is never described as “spirit‑form”; Paul says the body is raised (1 Cor 15:42–44), changed (1 Cor 15:51–52), redeemed (Rom 8:23), and made immortal, not replaced with a spirit‑body.
So the biblical pattern is: spirits are immaterial; angels can take physical form when God wills; but resurrection is permanent glorified human embodiment, not spirit‑mode with optional physical manifestation.

But we know in Genesis 18:2 that the "three men stood by him" weren't men in the flesh that we have. They were Jesus and two angels. They weren't in the same flesh that we as humans have today.

Maybe A.I. can describe this to you better so you'll understand what I'm saying:

The Lord and the two angels disappeared from Abraham and Lot after their respective visits, departing to different locations to fulfill their distinct roles in the narrative of Genesis 18 and Genesis 19.

After visiting Abraham at the oaks of Mamre, the group split: two angels continued toward Sodom to investigate the city and eventually rescue Lot, while the Lord remained with Abraham to discuss the fate of the cities before departing to heaven. The text notes that after the Lord finished speaking to Abraham, He went His way, and Abraham returned to his place.

Later, the two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening. After being hosted by Lot, they forcibly extracted him and his family from the city. Once Lot was safely outside, the angels disappeared from his sight as the Lord rained down fire and brimstone from heaven to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, with Lot and his family fleeing to the mountains.

 

[OMC]

But we know in Genesis 18:2 that the "three men stood by him" weren't men in the flesh that we have. They were Jesus and two angels. They weren't in the same flesh that we as humans have today.

Maybe A.I. can describe this to you better so you'll understand what I'm saying:

The Lord and the two angels disappeared from Abraham and Lot after their respective visits, departing to different locations to fulfill their distinct roles in the narrative of Genesis 18 and Genesis 19.

After visiting Abraham at the oaks of Mamre, the group split: two angels continued toward Sodom to investigate the city and eventually rescue Lot, while the Lord remained with Abraham to discuss the fate of the cities before departing to heaven. The text notes that after the Lord finished speaking to Abraham, He went His way, and Abraham returned to his place.

Later, the two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening. After being hosted by Lot, they forcibly extracted him and his family from the city. Once Lot was safely outside, the angels disappeared from his sight as the Lord rained down fire and brimstone from heaven to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, with Lot and his family fleeing to the mountains.

Genesis never says they had “spirit bodies,” it just calls them men who walk, sit, wash their feet, eat food, grab Lot by the hand, and physically pull him out of the city; that’s why Jesus uses them as the contrast when He says “a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have” (Luke 24:39). If angels in Genesis were “spirit‑form bodies that only looked physical,” Jesus’ argument loses its force, because He proves His resurrection body is not spirit‑form by appealing to the very things the Genesis visitors did—touch, wounds, eating. So yes, they were the Lord and two angels, but the text presents them in real embodied form, not spirit‑mode, and that’s why our resurrection is patterned after Jesus’ glorified flesh and bone, not after angelic manifestations.
An angel is not defined by Scripture as “a spirit that God temporarily gives a body,” but simply as a messenger — the Hebrew malak and Greek angelos both mean messenger, and the Bible uses the same word for human messengers (Gen 32:3; Num 20:14; Luke 7:24) and heavenly messengers (Gen 19:1; Matt 28:2), which proves the word describes function, not nature.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't see how sour grapes will prevent either the harpazo OR the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel.

No doubt the tearful and dreadful diatribes issued by those who are contrary will continue unabated to the bitter end, though.

However this end (of the Church Age) will certainly not be bitter for those who believe the promise of Christ. Their rapture is sealed, sovereign, and beyond dispute.

This "church age" you harp on about is a man made construct.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Genesis never says they had “spirit bodies,” it just calls them men who walk, sit, wash their feet, eat food, grab Lot by the hand, and physically pull him out of the city; that’s why Jesus uses them as the contrast when He says “a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have” (Luke 24:39). If angels in Genesis were “spirit‑form bodies that only looked physical,” Jesus’ argument loses its force, because He proves His resurrection body is not spirit‑form by appealing to the very things the Genesis visitors did—touch, wounds, eating. So yes, they were the Lord and two angels, but the text presents them in real embodied form, not spirit‑mode, and that’s why our resurrection is patterned after Jesus’ glorified flesh and bone, not after angelic manifestations.
An angel is not defined by Scripture as “a spirit that God temporarily gives a body,” but simply as a messenger — the Hebrew malak and Greek angelos both mean messenger, and the Bible uses the same word for human messengers (Gen 32:3; Num 20:14; Luke 7:24) and heavenly messengers (Gen 19:1; Matt 28:2), which proves the word describes function, not nature.

Again, 1 Corinthians 15 tells you that we are sown a natural body and resurrected a spiritual body. John 6:63 tells you that our spirit "quickens" and that Jesus himself was a quickening spirit in...

1 Corinthians 15:44-47

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is WRITTEN, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a QUICKENING SPIRIT.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; AND AFTERWARD THAT WHICH IS SPIRITUAL.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Whether you want to believe we will become like the angels doesn't matter. What we WILL BECOME is like Jesus, A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

 

[HeIsHere]

I have a couple of simple questions for you:
1) What "time" is it?
2) does it matter?

One thing for sure it is not some fabricated "church" age.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Friend, you are going to have to eat some humble pie and realize that the Chronisters and Fruchtenbaums of this world are leagues beyond your status.

You are bush league and that's a fact.
I have recognized this from the beginning.

Do I agree with everything Chronister and Fruchtenbaum opine? No. No I definitely do not.

But they are IMO spot on maybe 90% of the time. And at the macro-scale, they are in very close alignment to each other and myself.

Sorry fake sorry. And if you feel the need to churn out some kind of AI generated protest, go right ahead. It won't make a bit of difference.

CV5, I like your posts. The only thing I haven't totally understood in your responses is the timing in which everything happens. Can you show me a timeline the way you see it?

 

[HeIsHere]

One Covenant of Grace was the traditional understanding of scripture prior to the construction of dispensational narrative.

 

[Revelation1v8]

One Covenant of Grace was the traditional understanding of scripture prior to the construction of dispensational narrative.

We need to realize that "traditional understanding" is limited until God/Jesus/Holy Spirit chooses to reveal the meaning of the written word for the time that it applies to and to the people He wants to reveal it to.

Daniel 12:4 - But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[SomeDisciple]

This "church age" you harp on about is a man made construct.

One thing for sure it is not some fabricated "church" age.

So do you think the church ended in 70AD?

 

[HeIsHere]

We need to realize that "traditional understanding" is limited until God/Jesus/Holy Spirit chooses to reveal the meaning of the written word for the time that it applies to and to the people He wants to reveal it to.

Daniel 12:4 - But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The Revelation of Christ Jesus (The Apocalypse) was never sealed.
Daniel was sealed because the time of the end had not come, however The Book of Revelation was not sealed because the end of the age (end of the OT system) had come.

 

[HeIsHere]

So do you think the church ended in 70AD?

The church (ekklesia) is also found in the OT times... God has always had a faithful, called out people from the start.
Those who trusted in The Promise and those who trusted in The Promise when it arrived.

 

[Revelation1v8]

The Revelation of Christ Jesus (The Apocalypse) was never sealed.
Daniel was sealed because the time of the end had not come, however The Book of Revelation was not sealed because the end of the age (end of the OT system) had come.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ wasn't written by John (the last Apostle to die) until around the same time as his death in 95 AD. That tells you that Revelation is about much more than it all ending in 70 AD. The world hasn't ended yet and the Bible was written to show that the current world as we know it will all be changed, not just Jerusalem. Jerusalem is currently alive and kicking....until it is made desolate again.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exactly, ot is the shadow, nt is the real deal. Jesus the fulfillment.
So in ot the Israelite were also kind of the shadow, in nt, the real deal is follow Jesus, a cut in the heart .

Yes “a cut in the heart “

“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:10-


because Christ never taught meat and drink defiles like the law but rather he said it doesn’t . Because Christ never taught new moon doctrine or that one day mattered more than the other never taught his disciples to “be holy one day per week and don’t do any work “

It’s great to know the judge and have his judgements

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rather than having a law made for the unholy and unrighteous which is contrary to them to put them to death for thier sins.

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers ( thou shall not kill ) of fathers and murderers of mothers, ( honor thy mother and father ) for manslayers, for whoremongers, ( thou shalt not commit adultery ) for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, ( thou shalt not lie ) for perjured persons,( thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now , We have the word of life

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and promises of God for those who believe him and follow after even as imperfect as our paths often are and we are they have true faith and believe his word and hear it’s promise of life everlasting

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thou shall not kill , thou shall not steal , thou shall not commit adultery ect …,,, a pattern for “this is my commandment that you Love one another as I have lived you no greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friends “

which should be understood through the proper light of a true “ teacher “

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

….And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[HeIsHere]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ wasn't written by John (the last Apostle to die) until around the same time as his death in 95 AD. That tells you that Revelation is about much more than it all ending in 70 AD. The world hasn't ended yet and the Bible was written to show that the current world as we know it will all be changed, not just Jerusalem. Jerusalem is currently alive and kicking....until it is made desolate again.

It was written prior to 70 AD, this is a false narrative to support a false eschatology.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I appreciate that but also know that I have said things that might offend some people too.
I hope they understand that I do not dislike people for what they believe.

It’s not uncommon here to offend people by saying things without the intention of offending anyone so believe me I understand what you’re saying . The trick is to not take offense ……

 

[Revelation1v8]

It was written prior to 70 AD, this is a false narrative to support a false eschatology.

Go look it up. History is going to repeat itself on a much larger scale during the Apocalypse. It will affect the whole world before Jesus returns to judge the nations during the Sheep & Goat Judgement.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It was written prior to 70 AD, this is a false narrative to support a false eschatology.

How do you know this ? The same amount scientists that have dated it ad 95 have dated it as 65 the same history of the church depending on which one a person follows dates it also many years apart

some things we simply don’t know tangibly or empirically. Either way to support either argument or interpretation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Indeed because there is no biblical argument for dispensationalism, that is the point.

Would you explain dispensationalism as you mean it ? I’m asking Sincerely sister , I’m not usually clear on what everyone means by the labels. Lol just asking to know if I agree or not

 

[HeIsHere]

Go look it up. History is going to repeat itself on a much larger scale during the Apocalypse. It will affect the whole world before Jesus returns to judge the nations during the Sheep & Goat Judgement.

Naw, been there, did he research and then God slowly revealed I had been brainwashed by false teachers.
No need to go back.

 

[Cameron143]

How do you know this ? The same amount scientists that have dated it ad 95 have dated it as 65 the same history of the church depending on which one a person follows dates it also many years apart

some things we simply don’t know tangibly or empirically. Either way to support either argument or interpretation

What happened shortly after 65 AD?
What happened shortly after 95 AD?