Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Researcher]

One other thing... God created the whales, sea creatures and winged fowl before man, commanding those creatures to be fruitful and multiply, etc. Would those creatures be wrong or sinning if they had sex to reproduce? (Before Adam and eve even existed)

You must first prove that 'be fruitful and multiply' was about procreation in the first place. In other words, God could have simply made the creatures appear.

Think of how Jesus multiplied fish and bread. Did the bread have sex in order to multiply?

 

[DavidLamb]

You must first prove that 'be fruitful and multiply' was about procreation in the first place. In other words, God could have simply made the creatures appear.

But if God had just made more creatures appear, what did He mean when He gave the command to be fruitful and multiply?

Think of how Jesus multiplied fish and bread. Did the bread have sex in order to multiply?

Of course not. Thed whole notion is ridiculous. Jesus performed a miracle.

 

[Dino246]

You must first prove that 'be fruitful and multiply' was about procreation in the first place. In other words, God could have simply made the creatures appear.

Think of how Jesus multiplied fish and bread. Did the bread have sex in order to multiply?

Wow. What other means did Adam have at his disposal to “be fruitful and multiply”? Cloning technology? Wizardry?

There is a time to speculate and a time to accept the obvious.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Neither, I'm telling you it's not a "command", but a matter of fact statement. In the same sentence God also told Adam and Eve to subdue the earth and have dominion over all creatures, does that mean we get to exhaust all of mother earth's resources, cutting down all forests, killing off all animals? Converting all the land into residential area? If you take the first half of Gen. 1:28 literally, why not take the second half of Gen. 1:28 literally?

Posting verse for reference...

Genesis 1:28 KJV - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

To subdue and have dominion means to gain control and bring them under proper subjection.

To me, that doesn't mean to destroy or exhaust. IMO, God was setting up a good and sustainable system, not a dictatorship.



By extension, Do you view marriage as being set up for mutual benefit, or only (or mainly) the benefit of the male?

 

[KelbyofGod]

Neither, I'm telling you it's not a "command", but a matter of fact statement. In the same sentence God also told Adam and Eve to subdue the earth and have dominion over all creatures, does that mean we get to exhaust all of mother earth's resources, cutting down all forests, killing off all animals? Converting all the land into residential area? If you take the first half of Gen. 1:28 literally, why not take the second half of Gen. 1:28 literally?

1.. In the first instance of "be fruitful and multiply"... which was to animals... By what method do you suggest they were supposed to do this?

2.. Are you suggesting that the whales, winged fowl, etc were also created non-physical?

(Forgive that I'm not addressing the second question with the corresponding quote from your postings)

 

[Burn1986]

So, there is a tendency to get into the weeds on this one. So, they knew they were naked, God cursed them, then they had sex. So,

No, that is not correct. It's about even. What you might be overlooking is that men and women *generally* use different *kinds* of porn.

As for infidelity, it usually involves one of each.

you’re saying there’s is an equal split of men having to confront their wives about porn, just as much as wives confronting their husbands? I would genuinely like to see that data.

 

[Burn1986]

There’s lots of research out there. One recent study found that men usually underrate their porn consumption, however after online monitoring of several groups, men’s daily porn consumption was about 91-95% of men look at porn daily/ several times daily (ages 18-35).

Point is there is a very common male problem.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The responses in this thread are so disappointing, yet typical. Folks think they know everything about the Bible and then forbid anyone from discussing it. Unbelievable. So, because YOU don't have the answers, why should anyone else? Such narcissism and paranoia will destroy the Church. This is why Christianity is dying. People need answers and yet you hinder people from finding said answers.

Luke 11:52 - Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

No one is hindering anyone from discussion. What is being hindered is the human surmisings concerning something about which God's Word reveals nothing. The moment we add to, subtract from, mix in human wisdom with Godly wisdom, we no longer have Godly wisdom.

How about you provide chapter and verse which indicates Adam and Eve had sexual relations or did not have sexual relations in the garden.

That would settle once and for all who has "taken away the key of knowledge" ... who "entered not in" ... who hindered "them that were entering in".

Moreover...

The Genesis creation account is not some 'nursery rhyme' to be interpreted through the lens of a "babies come from storks" mindset. Are there any adults here? So far, all I see are 'milk drinkers'. We have the entire Bible at our disposal to help us unravel whether the man and woman had intercourse. It's not rocket science.

We're not interested in "rocket science" ... we're interested in what God has specifically indicated in His Word.

Whether Adam and Eve did ... or whether Adam and Eve did not ... is pure speculation on our part because God's Word is silent concerning this issue.

The only "adults here" are the ones who claim God does not tell us ... therefore, we do not know. Adults stop there and go no further because they are "no longer children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine by the sleight of man and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive".

*WARNING* Those of you who despise logic and common sense, please stop reading before you short circuit.

No one who has posted in this thread despises "logic and common sense". What is cautioned against is the "logic" of man's wisdom (human philosophy) which undermines a true and accurate reading of God's Word.

Anyhow...

The Tree of Life and sex are not compatible. You people should know this. Angels in Heaven are not "having sex and eating from the Tree of Life". Think about what you are teaching. Don't be so paranoid about this topic that you become irresponsible. Atheists pick up on this and will mock you to your face for being so ignorant.

Adam and Eve were not "angels in Heaven" and when we are living in new heaven new earth, we will have physical bodies with which we shall eat of the tree of life.

And no one is "paranoid about this topic". What everyone wants ... and what you should want for yourself ... is a true and accurate knowledge of God's Word without any trappings of human logic, wisdom, philosophy.

Do you not want this for yourself, Researcher? Do you know all of God's Word? Perhaps you should study Job 38-41 and see how much of God's Word concerning creation and creatures you really know.

But whatever, let's pretend that such blasphemy is occurring.

what "blasphemy"? Do you believe there was "blasphemy" in Eden?

So now you have two people, WHO ARE IMMORTAL, who never age, somehow making babies. How does that work exactly? Does Adam have immortal sperm? How does the zygote age if it is immortal? Come on people... use some common sense here.

see? ... you're going off on a tangent about matters which exceed what is written in Scripture.

Scripture teaches that there was no death before the Fall:

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

agree.

What happens to all of the sperm inside the woman when the man plants his seed in her? Does the sperm live forever? No death means no death. You folks have no idea what Genesis teaches. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

The one who lacks knowledge is the one who spouts endless questions concerning matters which God has not revealed in His Word.

And if you want me to go on a magic carpet ride with you concerning your extra-biblical speculations ... no thanks, I'll stick with what is written in Scripture.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

have you wrapped your head around that verse? do you understand what God created in the beginning? do you understand whereupon the foundations of the earth are fastened?

Again, was there death and sin before the Fall?

James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

asked and answered.

Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

do you believe David's mother "sinned" when David was conceived?

I will try to help...

The man and woman did not have a physical body before they partook of the Forbidden Fruit. Do you understand?

I understand that is what you believe, but I don't believe what you claim. And that does not mean I am narcissistic, paranoid, despise logic or common sense, irresponsible, ignorant, destroyed for lack knowledge of God's Word, making rookie mistakes.

Genesis 2:7 states that God "formed man of the dust of the ground" ... that was Adam's physical body. For you to claim otherwise is flat out denial of the truth of God's Word.

... continued ...

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... continued ...

NAKED MEANS NO PHYSICAL BODY!!!

Chapter/verse for this statement.

Genesis 2:24-25

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

vs 24 – "and they shall be one flesh" ... not 'one soul' as you infer under your rendering.

vs 25 – verse says they were "naked and were not ashamed".

Use your Bible to unpack the story:

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

"our earthly house of this tabernacle" is our physical body.

we "earnestly desire to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven" ... this is what we shall be when He shall appear and we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

The Lord Jesus Christ ascended up into heaven in a physical body which everyone could see (Acts 1). The Lord Jesus Christ will descend from heaven and if we are alive, we shall be changed ... mortal must put on immortality. If we have passed, our corruptible bodies will be changed ... corruptible must put on incorruption (1 Corinthians 15).

So obviously the man and woman could not procreate without a body. Again, this is common sense and logic which seems to be forbidden around here for some reason. There is a Spirit at work for sure.

please provide chapter and verse which states Adam and Eve did not have a body.

I have shown you that God formed Adam's body from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7) ... you believe this to be Adam's soul, but have provided no Scripture which indicates the soul is the physical body formed from the dust of the ground as opposed to the "breath of lives" which God breathed into Adam.

Pay attention. This is when God gave them a body:

Genesis 3:21 - Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Nope ... this is when God clothed them with coats of skin because both Adam and Eve believed the promise God made in Genesis 3:15. Because they believed, God made an offering for their sin ... "without shedding of blood there is no remission" ... God provided covering for their shame.

Those of you sucking on the baby bottle were told that 'God killed an animal and dressed them'. That is more nursery rhyme nonsense.

The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is not "nursery rhyme nonsense". And for you to insist that it is reveals why you have absolutely no comprehension of what occurred back in the beginning chapters of Genesis.

Let Scripture interpret Scripture:

Would to God you would take a dose of your own medicine.

Job 10:11 - Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Job was speaking of his body which was made from clay ... just as Adam's was (Genesis 2:7) ... and Job claimed his body would be brought to dust again:

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

And Job made offerings on behalf of his friends at the direction of God (Job 42:8-9).

Now do you understand what 'coats of skins' means?

Again:

being clothed we shall not be found naked

Being clothed with what? A body.

As I mentioned earlier, 'no shame' means they had no reproductive organs:

"no reproductive organs" ... another outlandish claim with absolutely no Scriptural support.

Genesis 2:25 - And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

God did not originally create them with shame. Eden was a Heavenly place before the Fall. There is no sex in Heaven. So why do you teach that? You people are making rookie mistakes. Just stop already.

Eden was not in heaven, and until we are clothed with our house made from heaven, God has provided instructions for the marriage relationship.

Revelation 16:15 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

It was the Fall that caused the man and woman to be corrupted with the shame we have now. They made a covenant with death and God gave them what they wanted. God clothed them with an earthly tabernacle, complete with all the bells and whistles to make babies through sin and death. The man and woman tried to cover their shame, i.e., cover their new body parts.

If the last sentence above was true ... you've got Adam and Eve covering "their new body parts" before God gave them "their new body parts".

Genesis 3:7 – they made aprons to cover themselves.

Genesis 3:21 – God made coats of skins and clothed them.

The more you know.

correction ... the more you know of God's Word.

.

 

[Burn1986]

No one is hindering anyone from discussion. What is being hindered is the human surmisings concerning something about which God's Word reveals nothing. The moment we add to, subtract from, mix in human wisdom with Godly wisdom, we no longer have Godly wisdom.

How about you provide chapter and verse which indicates Adam and Eve had sexual relations or did not have sexual relations in the garden.

That would settle once and for all who has "taken away the key of knowledge" ... who "entered not in" ... who hindered "them that were entering in".



We're not interested in "rocket science" ... we're interested in what God has specifically indicated in His Word.

Whether Adam and Eve did ... or whether Adam and Eve did not ... is pure speculation on our part because God's Word is silent concerning this issue.

The only "adults here" are the ones who claim God does not tell us ... therefore, we do not know. Adults stop there and go no further because they are "no longer children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine by the sleight of man and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive".



No one who has posted in this thread despises "logic and common sense". What is cautioned against is the "logic" of man's wisdom (human philosophy) which undermines a true and accurate reading of God's Word.



Adam and Eve were not "angels in Heaven" and when we are living in new heaven new earth, we will have physical bodies with which we shall eat of the tree of life.

And no one is "paranoid about this topic". What everyone wants ... and what you should want for yourself ... is a true and accurate knowledge of God's Word without any trappings of human logic, wisdom, philosophy.

Do you not want this for yourself, Researcher? Do you know all of God's Word? Perhaps you should study Job 38-41 and see how much of God's Word concerning creation and creatures you really know.



what "blasphemy"? Do you believe there was "blasphemy" in Eden?



see? ... you're going off on a tangent about matters which exceed what is written in Scripture.



agree.



The one who lacks knowledge is the one who spouts endless questions concerning matters which God has not revealed in His Word.

And if you want me to go on a magic carpet ride with you concerning your extra-biblical speculations ... no thanks, I'll stick with what is written in Scripture.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

have you wrapped your head around that verse? do you understand what God created in the beginning? do you understand whereupon the foundations of the earth are fastened?



asked and answered.



do you believe David's mother "sinned" when David was conceived?



I understand that is what you believe, but I don't believe what you claim. And that does not mean I am narcissistic, paranoid, despise logic or common sense, irresponsible, ignorant, destroyed for lack knowledge of God's Word, making rookie mistakes.

Genesis 2:7 states that God "formed man of the dust of the ground" ... that was Adam's physical body. For you to claim otherwise is flat out denial of the truth of God's Word.

... continued ...

.

Okay okay. Yes good points. I’m probably the one who stretched it a little. I’m in Celebrate Recovery and I’ve been seeing this as a common theme - men struggling with porn/ sexual problems. I could see a connection with it but stretched it a little fitting the judgement of God with sex after the curse. Point is, I haven’t received a direct insight from God on this; only my opinion. I should’ve stated that at the beginning.

But… men are struggling with this in today’s society and there is a dynamic present of men coming out of this and facing real problems on being restored.

 

[Lovette]

Posting verse for reference...

Genesis 1:28 KJV - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

To subdue and have dominion means to gain control and bring them under proper subjection.

To me, that doesn't mean to destroy or exhaust. IMO, God was setting up a good and sustainable system, not a dictatorship.



By extension, Do you view marriage as being set up for mutual benefit, or only (or mainly) the benefit of the male?

All that I'm saying is that this shouldn't be viewed as a command, nor should it be taken only literally. Case in point, Abraham took it seriously and literally, God told him he'd become a great nation, yet he was still childless at old age and Sarah was barren, what did he do? Using Hagar as a surrogate. Was that God's intention? Was that what God originally meant for him?

To me, the true and ultimate fulfillment is the Great Commission, produce fruitful work and multiply the Lord's disciples. As for marriage, its benefit depends on what the bride and the groom and their respective families bring into the union. And their intentions. If one side is taking advantage of the other, than I can hardly see any "mutual benefit." I'm faithful in God, but I'm not an idealist in marriage. It is corruptible as any other human institution. Don't lecture on me that "God ordained marriage", 'cause God ordained government and church too, are you telling me that all governments and church organizations are as pure as driven snow?

 

[Lovette]

1.. In the first instance of "be fruitful and multiply"... which was to animals... By what method do you suggest they were supposed to do this?

Reproduction is just a biological instinct, some animals die off immediately after copulation, is that the sole purpose of human life? Did Lord Jesus or any disciple have any children? Generations of church mothers and fathers, priests and nuns had devoted their whole lives to the ministry with a solemn vow of celibacy, are you telling me they're all crooks and failures?

2.. Are you suggesting that the whales, winged fowl, etc were also created non-physical?

(Forgive that I'm not addressing the second question with the corresponding quote from your postings)

I'm suggesting you let the Scripture interpret itself, and keep your sardonic tone to yourself.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This is nothing but Christian hubris. As a matter of fact, marriage is NOT a unique custome for Christians, it's for all mankind; it was not even a Christian thing until the fourth Latheran council in about mid 13th century, and there's no guarantee that it'd be enjoyable for Christians, nor is there any guarantee that there is a happy marriage reserved for every good Christian in the first place.

I clarified that I did not mean to imply that unbelievers are not able to enjoy marriage ... did you see that clarification at the bottom of the post?

As far as your statement "there's no guarantee that it'd be enjoyable for Christians, nor is there any guarantee that there is a happy marriage reserved for every good Christian in the first place" ... I never said life was not without it's ups and downs.

I know about the peaks and valleys. If and when both husband and wife love God with all their heart, soul, mind, strength, the husband and the wife each help the other to remain focused on the things above ... those things which are eternal. The husband and the wife encourage each other when times get tough ... help each other to stand strong in the Lord.

What believers have together that unbelievers do not have are the eternal realities and truths. Unbelievers have no hope as do the believing couple. Other than worldly wisdom and philosophy, unbelieving couples have no source to rely on when the going gets tough as do the believing couple who look to God's Word.

The rough times last for a season and then there is relative calm which the believing husband and wife also enjoy together, having been perfected, established, strengthened, settled as God works within during those times of suffering (1 Peter 5:6-11).

Satan's real deception is this "prosperity gospel", that God will reward your faith and devotion with worldly blessings. That is what's truly disheartening to hear.

When I speak of the wonderful relationship in marriage between believing husband and believing wife, you make the giant leap that I was referring to the "prosperity gospel"

I merely responded to your comments that what God established for the married couple ... which is good and honorable and enjoyable ... is somehow "hurtful and shameful, especially for women" or that the marriage bed is nothing but "transaction and subjugation". Those were your words, Lovette.

That satan has convinced mankind to believe as you do ... that God subjected man and wife to what you claim ... this what is "truly disheartening to hear".

And for the record, God does not "reward your faith and devotion with worldly blessings". God's rewards are eternal treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not corrupt.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe the story of A&E indicates they sinned as soon as the law was given, not that they had a long history of being morally perfect and had children before finally succumbing to temptation.

The Scripture I provide is that Genesis 2-3 does NOT describe a long history of sinlessness before sinning
NOR having sex until after they discovered their nakedness.

more conjecture ... God does not tell us how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden, nor does God tell us whether they had sexual relations or did not have sexual relations ... that is all speculation on our part and really does not matter in the scheme of things.

We should focus on what is revealed rather than what is not revealed in Scripture.

Why folks want to go beyond what is revealed in Scripture is beyond me.

.

 

[Lovette]

I clarified that I did not mean to imply that unbelievers are not able to enjoy marriage ... did you see that clarification at the bottom of the post?

As far as your statement "there's no guarantee that it'd be enjoyable for Christians, nor is there any guarantee that there is a happy marriage reserved for every good Christian in the first place" ... I never said life was not without it's ups and downs.

I know about the peaks and valleys. If and when both husband and wife love God with all their heart, soul, mind, strength, the husband and the wife each help the other to remain focused on the things above ... those things which are eternal. The husband and the wife encourage each other when times get tough ... help each other to stand strong in the Lord.

What believers have together that unbelievers do not have are the eternal realities and truths. Unbelievers have no hope as do the believing couple. Other than worldly wisdom and philosophy, unbelieving couples have no source to rely on when the going gets tough as do the believing couple who look to God's Word.

The rough times last for a season and then there is relative calm which the believing husband and wife also enjoy together, having been perfected, established, strengthened, settled as God works within during those times of suffering (1 Peter 5:6-11).

I you truly meant to treasure things above and eternal, devote your life on those things, instead of worldly distractions.

"He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction."

When I speak of the wonderful relationship in marriage between believing husband and believing wife, you make the giant leap that I was referring to the "prosperity gospel"

I merely responded to your comments that what God established for the married couple ... which is good and honorable and enjoyable ... is somehow "hurtful and shameful, especially for women" or that the marriage bed is nothing but "transaction and subjugation". Those were your words, Lovette.

That satan has convinced mankind to believe as you do ... that God subjected man and wife to what you claim ... this what is "truly disheartening to hear".

And for the record, God does not "reward your faith and devotion with worldly blessings". God's rewards are eternal treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not corrupt.

Then what's the harping and praising for marriage is all about? Why did you follow Jesus, worshiping him as your Lord and Savior? Or using him as a matchmaker and relationship consellor? Do you go to church for the word of God - or a date? It is most definitely "prosperity gospel" when you worship marriage as an idol, I come here to discuss God, and you lecture on me with marriage, as though all the secular romance and marriage councilling and self help sources are not enough, you have to add your own with a Christian label on it.

 

[Lovette]

I clarified that I did not mean to imply that unbelievers are not able to enjoy marriage ... did you see that clarification at the bottom of the post?

As far as your statement "there's no guarantee that it'd be enjoyable for Christians, nor is there any guarantee that there is a happy marriage reserved for every good Christian in the first place" ... I never said life was not without it's ups and downs.

I know about the peaks and valleys. If and when both husband and wife love God with all their heart, soul, mind, strength, the husband and the wife each help the other to remain focused on the things above ... those things which are eternal. The husband and the wife encourage each other when times get tough ... help each other to stand strong in the Lord.

What believers have together that unbelievers do not have are the eternal realities and truths. Unbelievers have no hope as do the believing couple. Other than worldly wisdom and philosophy, unbelieving couples have no source to rely on when the going gets tough as do the believing couple who look to God's Word.

The rough times last for a season and then there is relative calm which the believing husband and wife also enjoy together, having been perfected, established, strengthened, settled as God works within during those times of suffering (1 Peter 5:6-11).




When I speak of the wonderful relationship in marriage between believing husband and believing wife, you make the giant leap that I was referring to the "prosperity gospel"

I merely responded to your comments that what God established for the married couple ... which is good and honorable and enjoyable ... is somehow "hurtful and shameful, especially for women" or that the marriage bed is nothing but "transaction and subjugation". Those were your words, Lovette.

That satan has convinced mankind to believe as you do ... that God subjected man and wife to what you claim ... this what is "truly disheartening to hear".

And for the record, God does not "reward your faith and devotion with worldly blessings". God's rewards are eternal treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not corrupt.

.

And btw, in response to your hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions, God carved Eve out of Adam for him, but God did NOT carve an Eve out for every Adam. You talk about husbands and wives as an established fact, as though everyone is born with a spouse whom they can just pick up when they come of age like a trust fund, what decade are you living in? What century are you living in? That's the delusion truly "disheartening to hear".

You know what's not a delusion? You never meet anybody, never get married, never have a taste of that "wonderful, pleasurable, honorable, enjoyable" pie in the sky; and despite all these, you regard all of that as a test of your faith, you take up your cross and follow the Lord; others get married and dangle these temptation to taunt you, you give your best wishes to them and pity not yourself, that's the quality of a true disciple. 'Cause unfortunately, marriage is corruptible to moth and rust, it was already so in Jesus's days.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Okay okay. Yes good points. I’m probably the one who stretched it a little. I’m in Celebrate Recovery and I’ve been seeing this as a common theme - men struggling with porn/ sexual problems. I could see a connection with it but stretched it a little fitting the judgement of God with sex after the curse. Point is, I haven’t received a direct insight from God on this; only my opinion. I should’ve stated that at the beginning.

ok ... got it. I am glad you are receiving the help you need.

The only way I know of to overcome the things of this world is the Word of God.

Proverbs 1:7 tells us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. To fear God means to stand in reverent awe of Him ... and the verse makes clear that this is only the beginning of knowledge.

Get to a church which teaches the truth of God's Word ... a church which focuses on and teaches truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. Learn to abide in Him so that He can work within you to bring forth fruit in your life.

But… men are struggling with this in today’s society and there is a dynamic present of men coming out of this and facing real problems on being restored.

I understand.

I figure that satan is the one who takes everything that God claims is good and turns it to evil in his efforts to enslave men and women.

The light of God's Word dispels darkness. Psalm 119:105 tells us God's Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. God will show us the way ... the next step we are to take. But we are the ones who have to turn to God from the allure satan holds out to us ... not always easy but God helps us along the way.

Praying for your complete recovery as you turn from the things of this world to the things of God.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I you truly meant to treasure things above and eternal, devote your life on those things, instead of worldly distractions.

Marriage is not a "worldly distraction". God has established marriage and for you to characterize marriage as a "worldly distraction" reveals your complete ignorance of God's perspective concerning marriage.

"He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction."

The same Author that wrote what you quoted also wrote this:

Proverbs 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Do you really believe that there are married couples who are believers and they do not care for the things of the Lord?

You do know that married couples also "serve the Lord without distraction" notwithstanding the fact that they are in a marriage, yes?

Then what's the harping and praising for marriage is all about? Why did you follow Jesus, worshiping him as your Lord and Savior? Or using him as a matchmaker and relationship consellor? Do you go to church for the word of God - or a date? It is most definitely "prosperity gospel" when you worship marriage as an idol, I come here to discuss God, and you lecture on me with marriage, as though all the secular romance and marriage councilling and self help sources are not enough, you have to add your own with a Christian label on it.

wow ... your ability to misconstrue what a person says is uncanny.

I was married for 38 years before my husband passed away. We started dating before we were believers. My husband's cousin witnessed to us and we started going to a good Bible teaching fellowship and never looked back. We were blessed by God throughout all the good times and the times that were somewhat rocky.

you need to get a grip if my praising God for something He ordained from the very first chapters of Genesis has you in such a snit.

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[reneweddaybyday]

And btw, in response to your hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions, God carved Eve out of Adam for him, but God did NOT carve an Eve out for every Adam. You talk about husbands and wives as an established fact, as though everyone is born with a spouse whom they can just pick up when they come of age like a trust fund, what decade are you living in? What century are you living in? That's the delusion truly "disheartening to hear".

Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated that "everyone is born with a spouse whom they can just pick up when they come of age like a trust fund".

Until you provide such post, the "hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions" are wholly on your part.

You know what's not a delusion? You never meet anybody, never get married, never have a taste of that "wonderful, pleasurable, honorable, enjoyable" pie in the sky; and despite all these, you regard all of that as a test of your faith, you take up your cross and follow the Lord; others get married and dangle these temptation to taunt you, you give your best wishes to them and pity not yourself, that's the quality of a true disciple. 'Cause unfortunately, marriage is corruptible to moth and rust, it was already so in Jesus's days.

I will never say that what God purposed in marriage between a husband and a wife is something He uses "to taunt you".

Do you believe only single men and women are "true disciples"?

Do you believe no married couple is "true disciples"? you can think of no married couple you know who love God? all the married couples you know completely disregard anything God has written in His Word?

And for your information your statement "marriage is corruptible to moth and rust" is just more of your "hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions".

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[Gideon300]

Yes. Lord Jesus was the second Adam, did he ever have sex with anybody? The true interpretation of this command is his parting words - making disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe his commands, Matt. 28:19-20. That's the ultimate fulfillment. Not just making babies. Any animal can make babies, their only purposes of life are survival and reproduction, we are human beings made in the image of God, not filthy animals.

I don't understand your point. If not for procreation, which definitely involves sex except for one Person, there would be no nations to preach to.