Loss of salvation???

[brightfame52]

Refuting the Arminian Delusion: Why Salvation Cannot Be Lost

The popular Arminian theory argues that salvation is a conditional tightrope—a fragile state that a believer can forfeit through subsequent sin, backsliding, or a lapse into unbelief. But when laid alongside the finished cross-work of Christ, this view completely crumbles.

To claim that a child of God can be eternally lost requires you to assert three blasphemous premises:

• You make Christ’s satisfaction incomplete. If an elect person for whom Christ died can still go to hell, then Christ suffered the wrath of God for sins that will be punished a second time in eternity. This reduces the katharismos (purging) of Hebrews 1:3 to a failure.
• You make the "forever" of Scripture temporary. Hebrews 10:14 explicitly states that Christ "perfected for ever" those for whom the offering was made. If you can lose your salvation, then "forever" does not mean forever, and the word of God has failed.
• You demand more from the friend than the enemy. This is the ultimate death blow to Arminianism based on Romans 5:10. If God successfully reconciled you to Himself through the death of His Son while you were a blind, hostile enemy in total unbelief, it is logically impossible for Him to cast you off now that you are His justified friend, preserved by the endless life of Christ.

The Verdict

Arminianism fails because it transforms faith into a human work that maintains salvation, shifting the anchor from the cross to the creature.

But the scriptures stand firm: Your eternal security does not depend on your fickle ability to hold onto God. It depends entirely on the immutable fact that before you ever drew a breath, the blood of Jesus Christ already bought, sealed, perfected, and secured your soul for eternity.

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[Lamar]

But the scriptures stand firm: Your eternal security does not depend on your fickle ability to hold onto God. It depends entirely on the immutable fact that before you ever drew a breath, the blood of Jesus Christ already bought, sealed, perfected, and secured your soul for eternity.

But the scriptures stand firm: Your eternal damnation does not depend on your ability to trust in Jesus. It depends entirely on the immutable fact that God before you ever drew a breath, had already refused, denied, withheld and was unwilling to offer the blood of Jesus Christ for your soul for eternity.

This is the lie of Calvinism.

Your theology and mindset is sick.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The thief on the cross who believed in Jesus was not water baptized after he believed.

amen no one in the OT was

the gospel did not change, it has always been by grace through faith not of works.

God did not make it hearder by adding a work.. no work has ever saved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hi brother,

How you doing?
Great response
Oneness?
Catholic?

Love to you brother.

hey brother. long time no see. Hope you are well

 

[Genez]

amen no one in the OT was

the gospel did not change, it has always been by grace through faith not of works.

God did not make it hearder by adding a work.. no work has ever saved

Keep in mind.

John the Baptist was water baptizing in what was still a Jewish age.
That is why some called Jesus "rabbi".

 

[Freed18]

The thief on the cross who believed in Jesus was not water baptized after he believed.

Don't you think it is important to see that what the thief endured is nearly indentical to what happened to us at our water baptism into Christ, His death, and His resurrection ?
We died together.
We were both buried.
And we both left our tombs as new creatures !

 

[Freed18]

You think baptism is the only way to receive God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and have your sins remitted?

Acts 10:43-44

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Weren't Cornelius and his friends water baptized for the remission of their past sins in the next few verses ?

 

[Burn1986]

Weren't Cornelius and his friends water baptized for the remission of their past sins in the next few verses ?

Yall are mistaking the word “baptism”. How could Jesus baptize someone with “fire” (and the Holy Spirit)?

 

[Freed18]

Yall are mistaking the word “baptism”. How could Jesus baptize someone with “fire” (and the Holy Spirit)?

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same as the gift of the Holy Ghost promised by Peter to the repentant and water baptized in Acts 2:38.
The baptism of fire is the end of the world.
Matt 3:11-12..."I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

 

[Genez]

Don't you think it is important to see that what the thief endured is nearly indentical to what happened to us at our water baptism into Christ, His death, and His resurrection ?
We died together.
We were both buried.
And we both left our tombs as new creatures !

It actually happened to him.
But it does not happen to us in water baptism
Water baptism is only symbolic and represents being crucified and buried.....

That is... unless? Someone fails to pull you back up and out.
Then the symbolism ends rather quickly.

 

[Freed18]

It actually happened to him.
But it does not happen to us in water baptism

I disagree.
By faith, the exact sequence of events occur to both the thief and to the truly repentant.

Water baptism is only symbolic and represents being crucified and buried.....

Again I disagree.
It is the actual means of our "immersion" into Christ, into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Romans 6 describes it well.

That is... unless? Someone fails to pull you back up and out.
Then the symbolism ends rather quickly.

I'll leave the hypotheticals to others.

 

[brightfame52]

But the scriptures stand firm: Your eternal damnation does not depend on your ability to trust in Jesus. It depends entirely on the immutable fact that God before you ever drew a breath, had already refused, denied, withheld and was unwilling to offer the blood of Jesus Christ for your soul for eternity.

This is the lie of Calvinism.

Your theology and mindset is sick.

Lamar, you are completely changing the subject. My post was explicitly about the nature of Christ's death and how it guarantees eternal security for the believer. Instead of addressing my argument, you deflected to an emotional debate about the non-elect.

Let’s pull the conversation back to the actual issue I raised, which you completely avoided.

In Hebrews 10:14, the text says: “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

My argument is simple: If Christ offered Himself for a person, He perfected them forever. If they are perfected forever, they are eternally secure and cannot possibly lose their salvation or end up in hell.

Furthermore, you completely dodged my argument on Romans 5:10: “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

If Christ legally reconciled His people to God while they were active enemies in total unbelief, their security does not depend on their fickle ability to hold onto God. It depends on the finished cross-work that never lets them go. You completely ignored how an already-accomplished reconciliation of an enemy guarantees their final preservation.
Deal with the text and the argument I actually made:

1. Did the blood of Christ successfully perfect forever those He died for? Yes or no?
2. How can someone whom Christ legally reconciled to God while they were still an active enemy ever be eternally lost?
   
   
   
3. If a believer can lose their salvation and go to hell, aren't you forcing Scripture to mean that Christ's offering failed to perfect them forever?

Stop avoiding the cross-work of Christ and address Romans 5:10. How can someone whom Christ legally perfected forever ever be eternally lost?

 

[Revelation1v8]

Weren't Cornelius and his friends water baptized for the remission of their past sins in the next few verses ?

Personally, I believe that Jesus set rituals/sacraments before people as a means of weeding out the tares from the wheat, much like the Lord's Supper. We all know that there's a certain religious denomination who truly believes that Jesus physically sits in the Eucharist and that the way to keep Jesus living inside of them is to ingest it. That's why the Bible says that there are people who think they are Christians, but are not. We will be judged by our faith first and our works second.

 

[TrustandObey]

You think baptism is the only way to receive God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and have your sins remitted?

This is the error in your thinking. You are confusing cause with moment.

Baptism is not the "way", it is the moment that we receive the remission of sins and the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You are confusing speaking in tongues as the "moment" of salvation, it is not.
The people in Acts 10 were still saved at the moment of baptism, read the next verses.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

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The promise of the remission of sins is not found in the House of Cornelius but in the words of Peter:

Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

 

[Revelation1v8]

The promise of the remission of sins is not found in the House of Cornelius but in the words of Peter:

Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

The promise is forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, which only Jesus can give, and he's proven that water is not needed to do it. The water rite is a public declaration of what has already happened by grace through faith.

1 Corinthians 12:13 -

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

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[Burn1986]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same as the gift of the Holy Ghost promised by Peter to the repentant and water baptized in Acts 2:38.
The baptism of fire is the end of the world.
Matt 3:11-12..."I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

And John 1:33, Luke 11:13

There is a different baptism after salvation and the baptism of water.

This is usually done by the laying on of hands (which seems to be absent from today’s church)
“Then they laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." Acts 8:17

When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." — Acts 19:6