Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[God-fearing]

Not the end of the world; the end of the age...the end of the old covenant.

What, in a couple of sentences is the book of Revelation about?

Revelation is the revealing of Christ Jesus. I said end of the world sorta meaning bringing to the climax.

 

[Cameron143]

Since you don't know, I'll help you out. In the book of Deuteronomy, God establishes a covenant with Israel. The outline for the book is as follows:

1. Preamble 1:1-5
2. Historical Prologue 1:6-4:49
3. Ethical Stipulations 5:1-26:19
4. Sanctions 27:1-30:20
5. Succession Arrangements 31:1-34:12

The preamble identifies the Lordship of the Great King, stressing His transcendence and imminence. The prologue surveys the previous relationship with His subjects. The stipulations expound the subjects obligations under the covenant. The sanctions outline the blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. And finally, the arrangements are made for continuity of covenantal relationship for future generations.

Let that soak in awhile, and consider that Israel failed to live up to the terms of the covenant. How do you suppose God would respond? Wouldn't He be forced to bring the sanctions upon Israel for failing to keep the covenant? Hence, this is what we find in the book of Revelation. I'll show you in the next post how the book of Revelation has the exact same outline except God is not initiating a covenant, but ending a covenant.

Outline for the book of Revelation:

1. Preamble 1
2. Historical Prologue 2-3
3. Ethical Stipulations 4-7
4. Sanctions 8-14
5. Succession Arrangements 15-22

The difference being that Deuteronomy is dealing with the establishment of a covenant, while Revelation deals with the sanctions coming to fruition for failure to keep the terms of the covenant.

Incidentally, the books written by the prophets often have the same outline.

 

[Cameron143]

Revelation is the revealing of Christ Jesus. I said end of the world sorta meaning bringing to the climax.

Jesus has already been revealed before this in history, as well as in the gospels and epistles. See posts 3,819 and 3,822.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Beautiful
God is amazing

Amen he sure is !

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Israel = the covenant people; the nations (Gentiles) = those not in the covenant.
I was agreeing with you.

Yes I understood .

But there are the children of Israel who had a seperate covenant made at Sinai

But before that there was the covenant promised to Abraham the Hebrew
“Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Abraham and his seed are the covenant people

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16, 27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Israel is the name god gave Jacob and then a covenant was made at Sinai with the children of Jacob ( Israel ) before this Abram the Hebrew received the covenant promises even Abraham the man of faith who believed God and it eas accounted to him as righteousness. Even Abraham who had the gospel preached to him in the beginning
“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This isnt me arguing against what your saying just mentioning some things hebrews , Jews “ the children of Israel ect have specific meanings both covenants of course come from the two promises made to Abraham for his seed one natural and earthly and one spiritual and made of faith. But Abram the Hebrew is where those roots are was my point .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"Gentile" (goy) was a term used to describe a person from one of the nations outside of Israel.

As seen in Zechariah 8:23, which is describing what will take place during the Millennium.

​

This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations ​

will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we ​

have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:23​

........

Gentile" (goy) was a term used to describe a person from one of the nations outside of Israel.

….. Israel didn’t exist when Abraham lived…. You just made my point. Gentile the term isnt applicable until there’s a nation of Israel even in genesis 49 there’s a clan of Israel …… long after Abraham the Hebrew lived and died

 

[Pilgrimshope]

At the cross Satan was bound. Jesus sets down at the right hand of the Father, and all authority is given to Him. Later He shows up with a couple of new keys on His key chain...to death and hell. Death now has lost its sting and the church is growing unabated by the forces of hell. Not only so, but the forces of evil are unwittingly aiding in God's plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory.

Satan 0................Jesus infinity

You are locked into poor eschatological dogma. You have so much invested in it at this point that you will probably never see the truth.

“At the cross Satan was bound.”

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God's words stands.... clear and precise.

Acts 3:24 NKJV — “Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days.

Curious....

Where does it actually say the words that the 144,000 are firstfruits?

when you see them again in sion with the lord you can also see they have already been redeemed from the earth and are standing before the throne in heaven with Jesus.

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1, 4‬ ‭

Jesus is called “ the firstfruits of them that slept “ when his resurrection is mentioned interestingly this happened just after that

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭

Note these saints were ot Israelites of the tribes like the 144000 and also had a promise of resurrection on the old covenant they died under


many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

But every man in his own order: Christ , the firstfruits;


afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[cv5]

Outline for the book of Revelation:

1. Preamble 1
2. Historical Prologue 2-3
3. Ethical Stipulations 4-7
4. Sanctions 8-14
5. Succession Arrangements 15-22

The difference being that Deuteronomy is dealing with the establishment of a covenant, while Revelation deals with the sanctions coming to fruition for failure to keep the terms of the covenant.

Incidentally, the books written by the prophets often have the same outline.

Another preterist 5 alarm dumpster fire.
Utter fantasy and preposterous on every level. Truly, a tale told by an absolute zealot, full of sound, fury, and approximately zero connection to the text. The following critique is by no means thorough. But my time is far to valuable to be squandered on hosing down smouldering heaps of refuse.

* Ignored Covenant Restoration (Deuteronomy 30): The preterist argues Revelation acts out the curses of Deuteronomy 28 to terminate Israel, but completely ignores Deuteronomy 30, where God explicitly promises that after the curses fall, He will miraculously gather, redeem, and restore Israel permanently.

* Wrong Timeline for Covenant Termination: The Mosaic Covenant was legally ended and fulfilled at the Cross (Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13), not by the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Revelation cannot "terminate" a covenant already abolished decades prior.

* Fabricated "Ethical Stipulations" (Rev 4–7): For a Suzerain-Vassal treaty outline to work, chapters 4–7 must list the laws Israel violated. Instead, they contain heavenly worship, Seal judgments, and the sealing of Jewish witnesses—zero legal stipulations or charges against Israel.

* The "Historical Prologue" Anomaly (Rev 2–3): A covenant prologue reviews the King’s past faithfulness to the vassal. Revelation 2–3 consists of letters to seven predominantly Gentile/mixed churches in Asia Minor addressing their present spiritual states, not national Israel’s history.

* Twisting "Succession Arrangements": Deuteronomy 31–34 (Moses passing the baton to Joshua) was designed to lead the exact same nation into the Promised Land. Preterism twists "succession" into "replacement" (God abandoning Israel), violating the very pattern it claims to use.

* The Rescue Mission (Revelation 19): If Revelation is God’s execution decree against Israel, Christ’s return in chapter 19 makes no sense. He returns to destroy the Gentile armies of the Antichrist gathered at Armageddon to annihilate the Jewish remnant—a rescue, not an execution.

* The Unfulfilled Davidic Kingdom (Rev 20): Preterism must spiritualize Revelation 20 because a literal 1,000-year earthly reign of Christ requires a physically restored, national Israel fulfilling the unconditional covenants.

* Eternal Tribal Names (Rev 21:12): If Revelation 15–22 represents God legally divorcing and replacing Israel, He would not permanently carve the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel into the gates of the New Jerusalem.

* Global Scope vs. Local Curses: Deuteronomy's sanctions were geographically restricted to Israel and its land. Revelation's judgments devastate the entire global ecosystem and explicitly target "every nation, tribe, people, and language" (Rev 7:9).

* The Primary Theme Omitted: The preterist outline completely ignores the central climax of end-time prophecy: the national salvation, deliverance, and reconciliation of Israel (Romans 11:26, Zechariah 12:10).

 

[cv5]

Jesus has already been revealed before this in history, as well as in the gospels and epistles. See posts 3,819 and 3,822.

Revealed you say? Hardly.
And no, none of this happened in 70AD or any time since.

Rev 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mat 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luk 21:27 - And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[Beekeeper]

Would you care to chime in and properly identify this entity? And define his demise how and when? You failed to answer in the last post, so now is your big chance to convince us of the impeccability of your eschatology.

Are we to believe it when the historicists, amils and CT's postulate that this is the usual cast of straw men like Antiochus Epiphanies or Nero?

@Aaron56 @HeIsHere @Beekeeper ?
We really would like to know.

[2Th 2:8-10 KJV]
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

He seems to have a lot in common with the second beast of Rev.13:11.
The dude performed literal miracles (v.13), just like 2Th 2:9.
Deceitful type he was too, with his lamb appearance and dragon voice.
He was also called "the false prophet", and after Jesus (white horse) completed His victory in Rev 19 he was thrown into a lake of fire.
A little bit like 2 Th 2:8.

 

[Beekeeper]

By the way, when the Macabbean War took place, Israel was not being ruled over by someone from the line of David.

Here is a more detailed description of that using A.I.:

No, there was no ruler from the line of David ruling over Israel during the Maccabean War. The Maccabean Revolt (167–160 BCE) was fought against the Seleucid Empire, a Hellenistic Greek dynasty that controlled Judea.

I am not as persuaded as you are that the text requires Jesus to born before the wars of Ezekiel 38 and 39.
I am aware that in Ezekiel 37:26-28 the new everlasting covenant is predicted.
The "sanctuary" and the "tabernacle" that will be in the midst of God's people forevermore, is of course Jesus.
Going back again to 37:24 "David my servant shall be king over them" we have a similar promise that Jesus will come, and it is future from when Ezekiel speaks.

If we go back just a bit further to 37:21, we will be reading about the two kingdoms (Israel and Judah) becoming one.
That is a matter that very much belongs to the time of the second temple restoration.

So now I begin reading of the judgement on Gog, as it starts in Ezekiel 38, "And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying...."
and it is obvious that I am reading a separate prophesy, given to Ezekiel at a different time from the one in ch. 37.
It does not flow on directly form the new covenant prediction in 37, so in no way does it force us to conclude that this judgement on Gog must be placed in the future of the new covenant.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am not as persuaded as you are that the text requires Jesus to born before the wars of Ezekiel 38 and 39.
I am aware that in Ezekiel 37:26-28 the new everlasting covenant is predicted.
The "sanctuary" and the "tabernacle" that will be in the midst of God's people forevermore, is of course Jesus.
Going back again to 37:24 "David my servant shall be king over them" we have a similar promise that Jesus will come, and it is future from when Ezekiel speaks.

If we go back just a bit further to 37:21, we will be reading about the two kingdoms (Israel and Judah) becoming one.
That is a matter that very much belongs to the time of the second temple restoration.

So now I begin reading of the judgement on Gog, as it starts in Ezekiel 38, "And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying...."
and it is obvious that I am reading a separate prophesy, given to Ezekiel at a different time from the one in ch. 37.
It does not flow on directly form the new covenant prediction in 37, so in no way does it force us to conclude that this judgement on Gog must be placed in the future of the new covenant.

Really good stuff in there !

“The "sanctuary" and the "tabernacle" that will be in the midst of God's people forevermore, is of course Jesus.”

Amen

“The tabernacle of David” is a reference to Jesus the promised son of David being resurrected “

“David my servant shall be king over them"

again remember the covenant made with David through Nathaniel the prophet before his death ? It was that his son would sit on the throne forever and rule the kingdom and that he would be gods son …..

Then Remember Jesus birth ?

“And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:31-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ot prophets can only be understood by looking from the nt perspective given by Jesus and his apostles


“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬