False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[Revelation1v8]

How is it that you claim to believe all the above verses, yet you don't believe this principal applies to Hebrews 6:4-6 According to your interpretation of Heb 6:4-6 true believers (Gods elect) can lose their salvation. That contradicts everything those verses you listed teach.

How does verse 6 read to you?

 

[Journey_man]

I don't believe in a works based salvation and I do believe it all comes from God. What I recognize from my own personal experiences is that my prayers were mostly never answered when I wasn't being obedient to God. That's the only reason I say that the Holy Spirit wasn't working in me during that time. It's also why I said that even though I was "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, He wasn't blessing me or producing fruit. However, I'll never deny the fact that it was the Holy Spirit that was working in me to encourage me to change my ways and go back to being obedient. Once I did, He showed me how much more I would be blessed. Virtually all of my prayers are answered now on a regular basis.

Glad to hear that most of your prayers weren't answered, whilst you were disobedient to God. We don't know what's best for us, but God does so we should thank Him for not giving us everything we ask for.

Thank God, the Holy Spirit was still working in you, otherwise you would have fallen away permanently. Your testimony is very encouraging.

A member of our Church recently left and renounced his faith in Christ. He was praying about a matter for over 12 months without an answer or resolution. He now claims that God didn't hear his prayers or He just didn't care about his problem.

We prayed for him and the Elders reached out to him, but he never responded to any of their attempts. We have officially excommunicated him and we won't ever reach out to him again. We now consider him to be an infidel.

If the Holy Spirit was working in this man, he wouldn't have renounced his faith in Christ.

 

[Journey_man]

How does verse 6 read to you?

Hebrews 6:6 has to be teaching that Christ's atonement was a once and for all event. And if someone claims to believe in Him and then falls away, it means they never truly believed and they will never find any other way of salvation, apart from the one they rejected.

If someone rejects the gospel, they have rejected the only way of salvation and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. They can never find forgiveness after blaspheming the Holy Spirit, so they are reprobate (sealed for eternity in hell).

 

[Revelation1v8]

Hebrews 6:6 has to be teaching that Christ's atonement was a once and for all event. And if someone claims to believe in Him and then falls away, it means they never truly believed and they will never find any other way of salvation, apart from the one they rejected.

If someone rejects the gospel, they have rejected the only way of salvation and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. They can never find forgiveness after blaspheming the Holy Spirit, so they are reprobate (sealed for eternity in hell).

So, you think this where you and OMC differ? You believe they were never really saved and you think OMC thinks they were truly saved but rejected the salvation?

 

[OMC]

How is it that you claim to believe all the above verses, yet you don't believe this principal applies to Hebrews 6:4-6 According to your interpretation of Heb 6:4-6 true believers (Gods elect) can lose their salvation. That contradicts everything those verses you listed teach.

Hebrews 6:4–6 doesn’t overturn those texts—it explains false profession, not loss of true salvation.
The people there are “partakers” of external privileges (light, taste, powers), but the writer never says they are regenerated, justified, or sealed; when they fall away, he calls it “impossible…to renew them again unto repentance,” which matches apostasy, not a justified man becoming unjustified.
Scripture is explicit: all the Father gives to the Son come and are kept (John 6:37–39), Christ’s sheep “shall never perish” and “no man is able to pluck them” from His and the Father’s hand (John 10:28–29), the justified are unbreakably carried from foreknowledge to glorification (Rom 8:29–30), and the elect are “kept by the power of God” (1 Pet 1:5).
When some depart, John says they “went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19), and Hebrews itself defines the real believer as one who “holds the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” (Heb 3:14).
So the principle stands: the elect never lose salvation; Hebrews 6 describes those who were near the gospel and its gifts, yet never truly united to Christ.

 

[OMC]

You didn't say it in those words, but you did say it to that effect.

show me.

 

[Psalm1]

To gain, "victory over sin" means that Jesus Christ has broken the absolute legal and ruling power of sin over the believer, though a lifelong, internal struggle against remaining sin still remains until glorification.

Those of us who are in union with Christ, have been rescued from the condemnation of Adam. Romans 6 teaches that the "old self" was crucified with Christ so that believers are no longer slaves to sin.

A Christian can not reach a state of complete sinlessness or eradicate the sin nature in this earthly life. Believers still stumble and commit conscious sin. Christ’s victory is complete and unassailable. His resurrection guarantees that sin no longer holds ultimate dominion over those united to Him.

Victory is actively worked out through progressive sanctification. As the Holy Spirit works within a believer, sin's power gradually weakens, and the fruit of the Spirit grows. The more sanctified a person becomes, the more acutely aware they are of their remaining sin and failures.

Christians achieve daily ground against sin not by "letting go and letting God" in a passive sense, but through active spiritual warfare, repentance, reliance on the Word, and obedience driven by faith.

You are trying to do an "either <> or"

I am going by experience and what THE WORD SAYS.
Paul said in Galatians "walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh."

Your version is what I call mechanical.

Its not that your version is wrong.
It is simply lacking what the bible laid out, as a nuclear bomb against a person being found in, or, relenting to, sin.

Also Paul said "i pick up my cross daily "
Crucify the flesh; walk in the spirit.
(The "one, two punch" Paul used against sin.)

I won't try to invoke speaking in tongues, as people here will not know what I am talking about.

 

[Psalm1]

While the specific mechanics of the Holy Spirit are not textually detailed line-by-line within the narrative of Luke 15. The prodigal son, "coming to his senses" in (Luke 15:17) illustrates the reality of effectual calling and regeneration. Spiritually dead sinners cannot generate true, saving repentance on their own natural power.

God does not sit on the sidelines waiting to see if a morally bankrupt human will independently choose Him. The Father's proactive compassion and the son's sudden realization mirror how God sovereignly awakens the conscience through His grace.

Every parable must align with the broader systemic teaching of Scripture. Just as the shepherd actively seeks the lost sheep in the preceding parable (Luke 15:4), the Father's ultimate posture of welcoming the repentant sinner is undergirded by the sovereign work of the Triune God—where the Father chooses, the Son redeems, and the Holy Spirit regenerates and draws the heart.

Physical hunger and hitting "rock bottom" served as the earthly circumstances that exposed the son's misery, but the internal turnaround—the humbling of his pride to confess "I have sinned against heaven"—is the fruit of divine grace at work in a soul.

You claim your version "aligns with scripture"

But you reframed the parable, most likely to fit "once saved aleays saved"

Am i close?

Why change the parable?
If it destroys doctrine, change your doctrine.

The parable starts off, with the prodigal being part of the family. His father is representing the heavenly father.

So the parable starts off with a saved person. Not a sinner whose father is the devil.
You got the entire deal wrong.

 

[Journey_man]

Hebrews 6:4–6 doesn’t overturn those texts—it explains false profession, not loss of true salvation.
The people there are “partakers” of external privileges (light, taste, powers), but the writer never says they are regenerated, justified, or sealed; when they fall away, he calls it “impossible…to renew them again unto repentance,” which matches apostasy, not a justified man becoming unjustified.
Scripture is explicit: all the Father gives to the Son come and are kept (John 6:37–39), Christ’s sheep “shall never perish” and “no man is able to pluck them” from His and the Father’s hand (John 10:28–29), the justified are unbreakably carried from foreknowledge to glorification (Rom 8:29–30), and the elect are “kept by the power of God” (1 Pet 1:5).
When some depart, John says they “went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19), and Hebrews itself defines the real believer as one who “holds the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” (Heb 3:14).
So the principle stands: the elect never lose salvation; Hebrews 6 describes those who were near the gospel and its gifts, yet never truly united to Christ.

I was encouraged to read your reply, I'm glad you explained your position clearly. I was somewhat confused earlier, as I got the sense that you believe human efforts contribute something to the work of salvation.

As I read through some of our posts, I realize I may have been to rigid with my "salvation is 100% of the Lord and 0% of man". Some could come away thinking that my view of the bible doctrine of "predestination and election to salvation and OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), means that I can now enjoy sin with impunity, since I'm already saved and nothing can change that fact.

I'm sure all true believers know that our battle against the enemy is always raging, the enemy doesn't sleep or go on holidays. We are in a constant struggle to remain faithful and resist temptation. Yes the Lord Jesus won the battle over sin and Satan. But that's no reason to take our ease and enjoy the tings of this world.

We lose some of the battles but the Lord Jesus has already secured the ultimate victory for Gods people. We still get wounded and we pierce ourselves through with many sorrows, when we wilfully disobey God. The sorrow and pain we feel causes us to repent and turn back to God and He is always faithful to forgive us and restore us.

If salvation is 100% of the Lord, then it's not ours to lose. It's all of the Lord and He never fails to achieve anything He sets out to do.

 

[rewriter]

I was encouraged to read your reply, I'm glad you explained your position clearly. I was somewhat confused earlier, as I got the sense that you believe human efforts contribute something to the work of salvation.

As I read through some of our posts, I realize I may have been to rigid with my "salvation is 100% of the Lord and 0% of man". Some could come away thinking that my view of the bible doctrine of "predestination and election to salvation and OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), means that I can now enjoy sin with impunity, since I'm already saved and nothing can change that fact.

I'm sure all true believers know that our battle against the enemy is always raging, the enemy doesn't sleep or go on holidays. We are in a constant struggle to remain faithful and resist temptation. Yes the Lord Jesus won the battle over sin and Satan. But that's no reason to take our ease and enjoy the tings of this world.

We lose some of the battles but the Lord Jesus has already secured the ultimate victory for Gods people. We still get wounded and we pierce ourselves through with many sorrows, when we wilfully disobey God. The sorrow and pain we feel causes us to repent and turn back to God and He is always faithful to forgive us and restore us.

If salvation is 100% of the Lord, then it's not ours to lose. It's all of the Lord and He never fails to achieve anything He sets out to do.

When I think about Satan and sin being defeated, I am reminded of what a professor told our class one time. If a python gets in a room it can be a grave danger to anyone in the room, so you shoot it. But even a fatally shot python can thrash around and cause a whole lot of damage before it is finally still. Satan and sin might be dealt with an in their death struggles, but that does not mean that they cannot cause a great deal of harm.

 

[Psalm1]

When I think about Satan and sin being defeated, I am reminded of what a professor told our class one time. If a python gets in a room it can be a grave danger to anyone in the room, so you shoot it. But even a fatally shot python can thrash around and cause a whole lot of damage before it is finally still. Satan and sin might be dealt with an in their death struggles, but that does not mean that they cannot cause a great deal of harm.

I may have to borrow that analogy from you.
A great illustration
It made me think of a story where a man cut the head off a rattlesnake and it bit a shovel when they put it to its mouth.
( my grandma's father).

But beyond that it is even deeper.
That defeated devil is still the god of this world, in that MOST of the world serves him.
That is where his remnant power lies.
( in those followers)...and the mischief we allow him to do.