actually the greek word is a financial term.
It is crediting to ones account. Thats why alot of modern versions us to account or credit one as righteous..
Lay on may be used I guess. But it does not really focus on what is being said
Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.
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It is crediting to ones account. Thats why alot of modern versions us to account or credit one as righteous..
Lay on may be used I guess. But it does not really focus on what is being said
So you think I'm a teacher? Then learn from me. I am quoting scripture that clearly defines the transaction on the cross and you are
blowing bubbles and attacking people here that are trying to help you.
Yes it is. That's the right word. To impute the righteous Lamb of God with our own sinning, so that we can be justified when killing Him on a cross as a sinner, is indeed a special kind of hateful self-righteous justification.
Paul was already rebuking that blasphemous charge against Jesus Christ on the cross.
1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
Any person Jew, Christian, heathen, etc... who stilll believes Jesus was cursed of God as a blasphemer, for calling Himself Son of God, is still agreeing with the self-rightous false accusers, that had Him sinfully crucified as a transgressor against God's law.
Jesus willingly allowed Himself to be unjustly hung on a tree, for us to repent of any of our own sinning against Him. Not to justify ourselves, by declaring God cursed and killed Him as a sinner, instead of us.
Who is it that faklse accused Jesus of sin? The devil. Who is it that unlawful crucified Him as a sinner? The devil.
Who is it that believes the accusations and lies of the devil?
Rev 2:24
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, that they speak;
2Ti 3:3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Who is it that believes the accusations and lies of the devil?
Rev 2:24
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, that they speak;
2Ti 3:3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Knowing we are saved is easy, by knowing we believe Jesus Christ and keep His commandments.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
There's nothing unsure about living virtuously, godly, and charitably by His faith.
2 Pet 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
We also know for sure what is disobedient evil doing, whenever we see it, and especially if we do it.
Anyone who's not sure about their own works, can be sure they are not by the faith of Jesus Christ:
Rom 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
You missed the part about Jesus dying for us to repent of our sins, and not being guilty of His shed blood on the cross.
Moat unrepented sinful Christians are blind to the preaching of repentance unto salvation. Willingly.
Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.
One thing I know for sure, is that my salvation and walk with Jesus Christ, is not by some lame PSA of men.
If PSA is having to impute Jesus Christ with sin, and make Him guilty and worthy of death by law, then it's the same old character assassination against God the Son and the Father, that His false accusers and wicked crucifiers made against Him long ago...
I mean seriously, who trusts their immortal soul on a PSA pill? sounds like some sort of venerial disease.
The gospel of Jesus Christ for repentance unto salvation from sinning: The innocent Lamb of God willingly died by the hands of wicked sinners, so that all sinners should repent of their own wickedness.
Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
That's the gospel that preaches righteous truth, not some sinner's own PSA disease...
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
oh. were you there? Jesus did not die in the garden but God promised a way out of the horrible now fallen state of mankind
btw, it was not an actual snake....but then you don't think the origninal languages can teach us anything
guess what...the tempting being was right....gods do know the difference...problem is, we are not and were not created to be gods, so we can't handle it!!!!
Whom am I attacking? Is it attacking you to point out when you are attacking the poster and not addressing the post?
And it was Abraham's own faith that was credited/reckoned/accounted/imputed as righteousness, not Jesus' righteousness.
Rom 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Well said. Simple Scriptural record. And one of the few here to acknowledge the truth of it. Especially the part of all disciples being made unbelievers by Jesus' arrest and crucifixion.
They all believed the charge of blasphemy was trut, because He did nothing to defend nor save Himself, as their own supposed Messiah and Son of God with power would certainly do:
Mat 27:42
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
So, now you're the second person to at least acknowledge the truth of the prophecy of Scripture, about who imputed and esteemed Jesus guilty and smitten of God. But then not apply it to the other Scriptures about His unjust suffering and unlawful death at the hands of men.
First: None of these Scriptures, nor any others, ever say that God imputed Jesus with any sin, nor cursed Him and smote Him by the law.
Second: All Scriptures of the event, consistently declare that it is only sinful men, that bruised His body, striped His back, and nailed Him to a cross. Not God.
Isaiah{50:5}
The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Therefore, to apply the truth of Scripture, to others about His suffering and death, we only need a few:
Luk 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Jhn 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Did the Father or the Son arrest Him? Accuse Him? Condemn Him? Stripe Him? Crucify Him? No, neither the Father nor the Son did any of these things to His own body.
Did the Father command the Son to submit to the wicked men, who did do those sinful things to Him? Yes, both the Father commanded, and the Son equally obeyed.
Therefore, though the Commander and the Faithful and True Son did take it upon themselves to be killed by their enemies, they did not doing the killing. Nor are either of them to be blamed and imputed with sin and guilt for being killed by wicked hands.
2Co 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
No one can be sin, who knows no sin. No one can be imputed with sin, who has not sinned and has no sin.
The Father commanded the Son to be submissive in the hands of false accusers, who unlawfully made Him a sin and curse before men. Not before the Father, who did not command them to do so, nor by law.
Though the Father and Son worked together to be falsely made a sin and curse hanging on a tree in the sight of men, it was only the false accusers and condemners that did the evil work upon His body.
And because the Son perfectly obeyed the Father by prophecy in all things, all men and women at the cross, accusers and disciples alike, believed He could not be their promised Messiah and Son equal to God in righteousness and power:
Isa 52:14
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Isa 53:7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
All were made unbelievers at the cross, the Jew first and also the Gentile, imputing the Son with sin and guilt and smitten of God, that by His resurrection from the dead, any man that sinned against Him can repent and be made His righteousness with God, the Jew frst and also the Gentile.
Isa 52:14
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
2Co 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Any person after His resurrection, who still believes as they did at His death on the cross, that Jesus was indeed imputed with sin and cursed by God, and so justly smitten by law; Are making themselves unbelievers with the false accusers, that cursed and condemned Him as a blasphemer, for calling Himself the Son equal with God:
Jhn 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
God cannot put sin on anyone, nor sin against anyone.
Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
God and Jesus put Himself in the hands of sinners, and thereby on a cross by meek submission to their evil work.
Gen 22:8
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
It was only men that put their own sinful stripes upon His back, and their own wicked nails upon His clean hands and feet.
God 'putting sin' on His righteous Son, is only made up symbolism, to justify unrepented sinners that want to believe in symbolism alone. Rather than in deed and in truth doing the righteousness of God Himself.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
The false tradition, that God 'symbolically' imputed His righteous Son with sin, but did not make Him a sinner; Makes God imputing the sinner with righteousness equally symbolic, and not making them righteous.
Neither sin nor righteousness nor imputation with God, is only symbolic. If God imputes the sinner with His righteousness, He makes the man righteous. If God imputes the man with sin, the sinner is made sinful.
Jesus Christ the righteous was not imputed and made a sinner on the cross, and them that repent are imputed and made righteous as He, by His resurrection from the dead.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
1 John{2:29}
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Any tradition of God symolically imputing His Son with sin for our sake, is only a symbolic gospel of God imputing us with righteousness. Symbolism has no power of it's own to do or make anyting true, even of foolish men believe in it.
The power of the gospel of Jesus Christ, is that He willingly died for our sins for our sakes, that by the power of His resurrection, He can and will havbe mercy, and make us His righteous people doing His righteousness, and not the sinful things of the world.
1 Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…
1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
Neither sin nor righteousness nor imputation with God, is only symbolic. If God imputes the sinner with His righteousness, He makes the man righteous. If God imputes the man with sin, the sinner is made sinful.
Jesus Christ the righteous was not imputed and made a sinner on the cross, and them that repent are imputed and made righteous as He, by His resurrection from the dead.
1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
1 John{2:29}
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Any tradition of God symolically imputing His Son with sin for our sake, is only a symbolic gospel of God imputing us with righteousness. Symbolism has no power of it's own to do or make anyting true, even of foolish men believe in it.
The power of the gospel of Jesus Christ, is that He willingly died for our sins for our sakes, that by the power of His resurrection, He can and will havbe mercy, and make us His righteous people doing His righteousness, and not the sinful things of the world.
1 Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…
1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
If you mean, that at His death, no man believed He was the Christ, the Son of God, but after His resurrection there are many of us that now believe?
That's preached in the gospel itself:
Act 2:22
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Anyone after His resurrection, whether Jew, Islamist, Christian, atheist, that still believes as they did at the cross, that He was imputed with sin and cursed by God, and was smitten by law... Are of course still standing with His false accusers and wicked crucifiers, who imputed, cursed, and smote the righteous Son contrary to the law of God.
1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
The whole traditional purpose of having God impute Jesus with sin and smite Him as by law, is so that sinful people can justify themselves, as being made righteous by falsely accusing and smiting Him contrary to the law.
Those who refused to believe Jesus the Son of God after His resurrection, continued to justify their sinful treatment of Him as a blasphemer, and repent not...
1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
So it is today, who by faith in that tradition alone are justified, while continuing their own sinning against Him.
Where did the notion that the death of one person may benefit the relationship between another person and God arise from? Without that concept already existing somewhere it is hard to understand how the concept that Jesus's death compensated for the sin of other people arose from. But if one knows 1st century context then the problem may vanish, or get more complex, depending on how one views certain points.
If you want to call taking God at His words, arguing it, then ok.
Scripture just calls it simple teaching of what is written:
Neh 8:8
So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense.
Is 53:3-4 simply prophesies, that only men imputed Jesus with sin and esteemed Him smitten of God. Not God Himself.
Nowhere in Scripture, does God ever say that He agreed with them, and also imputed His own Son with sin, and smote Him as by law.
False.
The following prophecies of the Father and Son working together as One in command, and the other in obedience, is therefore rightly not to be misinterpreted, as though they Themeswelves were doing what sinful men did to Him. Nor wrognly interpreted as a good cause for why all forsook Him, and wrongly believed at the cross, that He was imputed, cursed, and smitten of God, rather than only by men alone.
To interpret any of the prophecies of the Son's suffering and death on a tree, as being what God Himself did to Him, is to first openly reject the simple prophecy of Is 53:3-4.
interpreting all following prophecies by Is 53:3-4, does not lead to contradicting any porphecies of Christ's suffering and death. But to interpret other prophecies without is 53:3-4, leads directly to contradicting the first prophecy of His suffering and death at the hands of men only, not imputed nor smitten of God.
Conclusion: All the other Scriptures quoted, must first be rightly interpreted by Is 53:3-4. If not, then all the other Scriptures are must be falsely interpreted to reject Is 53:3-4.
This is why very few believers in that false tradition, even acknowledge Is 53:3-4, in order to continue preaching, that God Himself imputes His Son with sin and guilt on a tree, and smites Him by law.
And those few who do, such as yourself, do not then go on to apply Is 53:3-4 to those quoted Scriptures, that you may continue to agree with that false tradition.
Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Who imputed Jesus with sin and smitten of God on the cross? Only men, not God at all.
And like the prophet and all His own disciples, we also would have falsely done and believed the same lie of false accusation against Jesus Christ, as being a sinful blasphemer:
Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Luk 23:35
And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
His disciples also would have believed, but by command of the Father, the Son obeyed and did not. And so neither did they believe at the cross.
Until He rose again from the dead. And some not even until they could thrust their hands in His resurrected body's side..
Isaiah 53 does exactly that distinction for us.
The chapter first records the mistaken conclusion of the observers and then explains God's actual purpose.
Isaiah 53:4 says: "We esteemed him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."
The verb is ḥāshab (חשב), "to reckon, regard, account, esteem."
The statement is explicitly about what we thought.
The error was in our estimation.
But Isaiah does not stop there.
He immediately corrects that estimation: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities" (v. 5).
The Hebrew begins with wəhuʾ ("but he"), creating a contrast.
Isaiah is moving from human perception to divine explanation.
The bigger problem for your argument is that Isaiah then uses entirely different verbs:
"The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (v. 6).
The verb is pāgaʿ (פגע).
It means to cause something to meet, encounter, or fall upon someone.
Isaiah is not describing what men imagined.
He is describing what YHWH did.
Then: "He shall bear their iniquities" (v. 11). "He bare the sin of many" (v. 12).
The verb is nāśāʾ (נשא), "to bear, carry, lift, bear away."
Notice that Isaiah never uses nāśāʾ to mean "falsely accused."
He uses ḥāshab for mistaken human estimation and nāśāʾ for actual burden-bearing.
So the text contains three distinct ideas:
Human estimation: "We esteemed him..." (ḥāshab).
Divine action: "The LORD laid on him..." (pāgaʿ).
Servant action: "He bore..." (nāśāʾ).
Your interpretation collapses all three into the first category.
Furthermore, nobody here is claiming God imputed personal sin to Christ.
Isaiah never says the Servant became a sinner.
In fact, Isaiah says the opposite:
"He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth" (v. 9).
The Servant remains righteous.
Yet the same chapter says:
"The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
If verse 4 means God had no role whatsoever in the Servant's suffering, then verses 6, 10, 11, and 12 become unintelligible.
Isaiah's point is not that the crowd was wrong to see God's hand involved at all.
The crowd was wrong about why He suffered.
They assumed He was being judged for His own guilt.
Isaiah says He was suffering as the righteous Servant on behalf of others.
That is why the chapter progresses from "we esteemed" to "the LORD hath laid on him" to "he shall bear their iniquities."
The Hebrew itself distinguishes human misjudgment from God's stated purpose.
Is 53:3-4 gives one of man alone. The following Scriptures give one of the Father and Son alone. And they are not the same at all.
The first one is of men imputing Jesus with sin and smitten of God. The following ones reveal the Father commanding the Son to submit to men, who perfectly obeys as the lamb to slaughter.
Only men falsely accused, imputed, condemned, cursed, beat, and crucified Him. Neither God the Father nor Son accused, inmputed, cursed, and laid hands on Himself.
Men worked together to false accuse, curse, and crucify the Son as by law. God and Son only worked together to commandand obediently submit to their wicked hands.
The command of the Father, was only for the Lamb of God to be willing part of the evil done unlawfully to Him, not to then be made guilty by the Father through obedience.
The good Commander and faithful Soldier puts Himself in the hands of the enemy, if necessary. If He is killed by the enemies' hands, neither the good Commander nor faithful Soldier is made guilty for it.
Neither the Father nor the Son made Himself sin and cursed with death by law. Only men did. Both the Father and the Son only made Himself to be a sin cursed with death, by submitting to sinful men abusing the law of God.
And finally, by the Son's perfect obedience to the Father's will, being a lamb made for slaughter, all men wrongly believed at the cross, that He was a sin cursed and smitten of God by law: Is 53:3-4.
What was done for evil by men, was made for good by both the Father and the Son, that they could have mercy and forgive any man that sins against God and His Christ, who repent by His resurrection from the dead...
All at the cross, the Jew first and also the Gentile, are made guilty of shedding the Son's innocent blood. Any that repents by His resurrection, the Jew first and also the Gentile, are made the righteousness of God, who sin nor more against God and His Christ.
Psa 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.