once again, a pharisee is one who thinks they are saved by works.
Are you one of them?
so eternal life is not eternal it is conditional.
Got it
Obedience REQUIRED
- Thread starter ScooterJackson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Got it
Once again they also add to and take away from God's Word which leads them to teach false doctrine.
Just like the modern day false grace teachers!
No, I'm not one of those that turn the grace of the Lord in to lawlessness like those false grace people.
Eternal life is only applicable to those who abide in Christ
2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us
Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who was dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
The Lord warns in His Word those not continuing in His goodness (abiding in Christ) shall be cut off
Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
But no one calls a person a pharisee because they did that.
No. You turn the grace of God to legalsim. Like the jews did.
well good luck being like the pharisee.
I will pray for you
I have to ask...who would that matter to anyone who thinks sin is unavoidable ?
It apparently doesn't matter to someone who claims to be sinless.
Without turning from sin, as Jesus and the apostles commanded, there is no gift from God.
Without getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, there is no gift from God.
Without submissionto God and to His Son, there is no grace.
Paul writes..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
You have just labeled yourself the slave of your skin and bones, and no man can serve two different masters.
I agree, but your prior paragraph does not.
I am hung up on perfect obedience to the only one who deserves it.
Why aren't you ?
All sinners are bad trees, but those walking in the light, and God is that light, are the good trees.False. Water baptism "follows" conversion. (Acts 10:43-47) We must first hear (Romans 10:17) before we can repent (change our mind) and believe/believe the gospel/place faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order. Mark 1:15 - “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the gospel.” *Notice the order. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.
You reverse the scriptural order of repent and believe then you redefine repent to mean sinless perfection.Your works based false gospel demands sinless perfection and water baptism as the basis or means of receiving eternal life. That's not faith in Christ but faith in self. Repentance is unto the remission in Acts 2:38 and baptism is parenthetical. Compare with Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism? Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
So, according to you, good works are to be dissected from the moral aspect of the law? Loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves by providing our neighbor with food and clothing (James 2:15-16) does not involve good works?So, you disregard the moral aspect of the law in Leviticus 19:18 and Deuteronomy 6:5 and simply reduce the law merely to circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping and tithing? You are thoroughly confused. Folks who teach salvation by works will typically try to turn "not saved by works" into not saved by "these" works (works of the law) but still saved by "those" works (good works) in order to get around multiple passages of scripture. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)
So, when Abraham obeyed God by offering up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22, there was no moral decision to be made by Abraham when he obeyed God? (Romans 4:2-3) He was simply performing a work of the law even though Abraham was before the law? Also, works of righteousness (Titus 3:5 - literally, works done in righteousness) that we are not saved by have nothing to do with moral choices and only involve ceremonial laws?
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. - bad trees.
Tht is not correct
You are in effect trying to outlaw turning from sin and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins, to be saved on the day of judgement !
Youy should be ashamed of youself.
Serving one's God is a whole lot bettter that burnt sacrifices and offerings.
Personally, I don't think that those who are really reborn, and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, can be deceived.
It is those who were wavering in their belief from the start that get fooled away from God and from His Son.
If all remain sinners, what is the point of even teaching them about Jesus and His resurrection ?
Nobody changes.
Thankfully, I know that to be untrue.
Many have changed from serving sin, to serving the Lord.
And no man can serve 2 masters. (Matt 6:24)
Apparently???
Apparently they knew that faith without obedience was dead on arrival. Hence the lack of adding "alone".
If faith without obedience was the gospel they simply would have added:
"alone"
or
"only"
or
"solely"
or
"just"
or
"purely"
or
"exclusively"
or
"merely"
or
"simply"
etc.
And you would have no need to shoehorn your pet definitive into every verse you use to defend your theology.
Matthew 7:7-8
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
According to your reasoning there is no need to "ask", no need to "seek" and no need to "knock".
Afterall, these actions would be works of merit.
Eternal life is not conditional.
Where you spend it is most certainly conditional.
Until the Day of Judgement, none of us knows our fate.
It means His work is finished and people like you cannot add whatever definitive you like to His words.
By the grace of justification received by faith and baptism we have union with God thru Christ, in the communion of saints, empowered by grace and life in the spirit to attain to eternal salvation in glory!
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing.
phil 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
ps 23:3
He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name sake
how is this possible without works?
mt 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Lk 21:36 / mt 24:48 / mt 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
how is this possible without works?
mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
how is this possible without works?
mt 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
mt 3:8 / 2 cor 7:10
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
how is this possible without works?
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
how is this possible without works?
Lk 1:75
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
how is this possible without works?
acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
how is this possible without works?
((suffering))
Lk 9:23 deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
how is this possible without works?
((patience))
col 1:11 patience
heb 6:12 faith & patience
rev 2:19 faith, patience, & works
rev 14:12 commandments, patience, & faith
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)
how is this possible without works?
heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
how is this possible without works?
((keep the commandments))
deut 6:5 / mt 19:17 / Jn 14:21 / 1 cor 7:19 / 1Jn 3:24 / 1 Jn 5:2-3 / rev 12:17
rev 14:12 commandments, patience, & faith
how is this possible without works?
eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
how is this possible without works?
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
heb 6:15 after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!
how is this possible without works?
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
how is this possible without works?
HOW IS ANY OF THIS POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS???
thks
By focusing only on the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19–21, you overlooked verse 18, which is central to Paul’s argument. The verses you quoted address the unsaved, not the saved or how they are saved. By taking them out of context, you made them support your interpretation and obscured their true message. Galatians 5:1, however, tells us to “stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free.” Through His finished work and His blood on the cross, Christ has already made His spiritual children completely free; this liberty is neither gained nor maintained by human effort. As Paul states in Galatians 5:18—the verse you omitted— “But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” Being led by the Spirit through salvation removes those saved from being under the law; salvation is not a reward earned by human effort- it is a gift given purely through God's grace. Those who are dead in Adam remain under the dominion of the law and thereby desire to perform the works of the flesh for salvation. By contrast, those whom Christ the Savior has saved walk in the Spirit and thereby trust in Christ alone as Savior, even though their corrupt flesh continues to war against the soul until death.
You say that without turning from sin, getting baptized, and submission, there is no salvation. But by that, you make it dependent upon your actions, not upon Christ's: if we must do something to obtain salvation, then salvation is a debt paid for your efforts and Christ is not your Savior, you are.
As I have explained many times, Jesus Christ alone is the complete Savior. By Himself, He perfectly accomplished everything required to freely give salvation to His eternal spiritual children, leaving nothing for them to achieve. Yet you do not consider His work sufficient and seek to replace it with your own. In doing so, you make yourself your own savior and reject Christ. You cannot have it both ways: either Christ is entirely the Savior, or you are—and you have chosen yourself. The choice you've made could not be clearer.