Eternal Hell Is a Logical Lie

[ScooterJackson]

then left with consciousness and existence without life.

That would be being alive and conscience being separated from the Lord in a place that is void of any shred of His presence.

That's the place God created for the devil and his demons and people end up their because they did not abide in Christ making them workers of iniquity which by default makes them children of the devil.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Revelation 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Yep, it's eternal torment. Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Matthew 13:41,42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

 

[John146]

Yep, it's eternal torment. Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Matthew 13:41,42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.

Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.

and they have no rest day nor night,

 

[tablet123]

Psalms 35:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.

Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

These people were conscious when they gnashed with their teeth.

It is an act that requires a person to be alive consciously to do it.

Wailing and weeping is an action where a person has to be conscious to do it.

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

If they are not conscious why are they wailing and gnashing their teeth.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

If there is no conscious why are they tormented for ever and ever and they get no rest day nor night.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

If there is no conscious why do they suffer vengeance of eternal fire.

You cannot suffer if there is no conscious.

 

[ScooterJackson]

and they have no rest day nor night,

Yessir, if annihilationism were actually a thing they would not be experiencing this

Teaching annihilationism actually results in a lot of people deciding to not get born again which is satan's purpose in starting and spreading the false doctrines of annihilationism

Sinners out in the world heard about being tormented in hell and thought to themselves that they really need to accept Jesus and get born again at some point in their lives - and then they hear about annihilationism and think why bother to get born again when I'll just cease to exist and not have to experience being tormented in hell for all eternity.

And how does one that believes in annihilationism witness to unbelievers (if they even believe in trying to reach the lost which most of them don't). Is that conversation like "Hey, you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, but if you choose not to it's all good as you'll be annihilated and never be tormented in hell so it's all good either way man!"

Those following annihilationism are definitely a freaky bunch of peeps that's for sure.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I made no personal attack but merely noted your difficulty with implication,
which you illustrated again by saying "What it does not explicitly teach is the duration of punishment prior to destruction",
again demonstrating demeaning logical implication in language.
You would do well to expand your exegetical framework by including the ability to discern what is implied as well as
what is specified in texts.
How do you say "happy trails" in Greek?

I've told OMC several times that there are countless times in the Bible where "explicit" language is NEVER used, but he keeps using that term anyway to play the devil's advocate as an excuse to defend his position, when he really knows better.

---

 

[GWH]

I've told OMC several times that there are countless times in the Bible where "explicit" language is NEVER used, but he keeps using that term anyway to play the devil's advocate as an excuse to defend his position, when he really knows better.

---

Perhaps his seminary should be blamed for him not being able to perceive/willing to acknowledge that
what language both logically implies and explicitly specifies are part of good/complete exegesis, because
I do not remember my seminary teaching that either. I may have learned that in my English courses, but
definitely from talking with people.

Not sure how many other folks are conscious of it, but I think too few, because it is required for harmonizing Scriptures
that at first reading out of context seem to disagree/contradict, although there are a few examples of contradictions
I have not seen how to harmonize yet.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Perhaps his seminary should be blamed for him not being able to perceive/willing to acknowledge that
what language both logically implies and explicitly specifies are part of good/complete exegesis, because
I do not remember my seminary teaching that either. I may have learned that in my English courses, but
definitely from talking with people. Not sure how many other folks are conscious of it, but I think too few.

Well, here's what I can tell from my most recent discussions with him. When he's proven wrong, he starts using neutral language so he doesn't feel picked on, or so it's not as easy to prove him wrong again. He's using language to hide behind.

---

 

[GWH]

Well, here's what I can tell from my most recent discussions with him. When he's proven wrong, he starts using neutral language so he doesn't feel picked on, or so it's not as easy to prove him wrong again. He's using language to hide behind.

---

Well, he isn't the only or worst. I wish everyone on CC would realize that perhaps the main sin after becoming a Christian is apathy about the commands to be one. Thus, I try to be agreeable and disagree amicably, but some people seem to find that boring and argue endlessly instead of placing their bets and moving on.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Well, here's what I can tell from my most recent discussions with him. When he's proven wrong, he starts using neutral language so he doesn't feel picked on, or so it's not as easy to prove him wrong again. He's using language to hide behind.

That's something they have courses on in the cemeteries

about the commands to be one

Jesus said there are tares among true believers. He said they were of the devil.
Should we be one with them as well and accept their false teachings?

If not, how are you dealing with the tares?

 

[tourist]

That's something they have courses on in the cemeteries

Perhaps in the seminaries too.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Perhaps in the seminaries too.

That's where they train ministers to teach dead dried up carnal religion

 

[tourist]

That's where they train ministers to teach dead dried up carnal religion

That's probably true in some of those places.

 

[ScooterJackson]

That's probably true in some of those places.

Yeah, more of them than not. There's a reason for the falling away in the end times and it starts with church leaders.

1 John 4:1 - Do not to believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[GWH]

That's something they have courses on in the cemeteries



Jesus said there are tares among true believers. He said they were of the devil.
Should we be one with them as well and accept their false teachings?

If not, how are you dealing with the tares?

I consider TULIP and Sabbatarianism to be tares/heresies (contradicting the Gospel/kerygma),
so I disagree as amicably as I know how, placing my bet and moving on after I have shared truth lovingly.

Other discussions (like this OP and the one on abortion) are on didachaic topics, so I share my opinion or what I believe
while viewing us as essentially/spiritually one because of agreement regarding God's requirement for salvation.

 

[ZNP]

People go to hell because that is what they wanted

One argument against hell is that humans live for a very brief moment in time relative to eternity. So regardless of how sinful that brief moment is, righteous judgement would not give eternal punishing for a momentary sin.

John 5:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

According to this verse a temporal mortal can do something that will have eternal consequences, that is infinite consequences. So if a temporal human can hear and believe the words that would cause them to receive eternal life, what would be the consequences of someone who prevented someone from hearing and believing in Jesus so that they did not receive eternal life? Wouldn't those consequences also be eternal, that is infinite?

We have museums so that we can learn from the past. What if hell is a "museum" so that God's children can learn from all those that rejected Jesus and took the broad way that leads to destruction. Wouldn't you want to preserve that information for eternity?

Imagine that hell is a museum and when you walk through the museum you see each person and learn why they are in hell and what their punishment is. The fact is the person will be there, in hell, for eternity and people for eternity will know why they are there and what the punishment is.

Secondly, it is important to understand the punishment because a wrong understanding is also confusing.

People describe hell as very black darkness, that is, the absence of Light because God is light and in Hell there is no God.

Others describe it as pure hopelessness because God is hope.

Others say you immediately feel the total lack of love because God is love.

In the New Testament Jesus describes this man in hell begging for a drop of cool water on his tongue. Jesus is the living water.

The punishment is that these people get what they asked for, they get to live in a realm without God for eternity.

They rejected Jesus, that was their choice. They rejected and rebelled against God, that was their choice. I believe no one can go to hell unless they choose to. So we bring the gospel to all the nations to give them the option of whether or not to choose the Lord.

 

[John146]

That's where they train ministers to teach dead dried up carnal religion

There are very few seminaries left that teach the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[Chester]

2. Revelation 14:11 — Smoke and no rest​

The text says the smoke of their torment rises forever, and they have no rest day or night. Both statements deserve serious attention. Yet Isaiah 34:9–10 uses the image of smoke rising forever to describe Edom’s devastation. Edom is not still physically burning.

Unfortunately I do not have time to answer many of the points you bring out: but here is one: It is much easier to use another Scripture (like you use Isaiah 34:9-10) to bypass what a text says, than to actually deal with the actual direct meaning of the text itself.

 

[Chester]

One of the biggest initial errors that I see here is that the Biblical idea of death is not "termination" but it is "separation." Physical death is separation from the body. The second death (spiritual death) is separation from God.

 

[ThomasMatthew]

One of the biggest initial errors that I see here is that the Biblical idea of death is not "termination" but it is "separation." Physical death is separation from the body. The second death (spiritual death) is separation from God.

Sounds a lot like hell doesn't it?
I haven't spent much time studying hell, don't really have an opinion on it.
I just know that it's not a place anyone wants to be.