Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[God-fearing]

Beekeeper I believe said Israel is kicking out people in Israel?

 

[Beekeeper]

You still don't understand what that says. Abraham was made heir of the world because of his righteousness, which is exactly why God/Jesus made a Covenant with him and the seed of Isaac and Jacob. Abraham wasn't under the law to begin with, so no, it wasn't given to him or his seed THROUGH THE LAW.

---

I think that I understand and agree with that.
I would also understand that those who have the faith of Abraham, who have faith in Jesus, are the seed of Abraham and heirs the same land promise (Galatians 3:29) i.e. the world.
At this time we live in the world as strangers and pilgrims, much like Abraham did in the land of Canaan.
We are not called to conquer it, because that is the work of God when He judges it.

In the case of the children of Israel it was proven that some were heirs of Abraham's promise through the righteousness of their faith, but some were not.
National Israel incorporated both groups under the blessings of the Mosaic covenant, through which they possessed the land of Canaan.

We now have a situation where neither the curses or the blessings of the Mosaic covenant are in force, so the only inheritance that is still available is the older one, given to Abraham before the law.
The fact that the everlasting promise is for the whole resurrected world (including the land of Canaan of course), should be enough for Christians to know that establishing a nation in the land of Canaan is not our cause.

 

[cv5]

I think that I understand and agree with that.
I would also understand that those who have the faith of Abraham, who have faith in Jesus, are the seed of Abraham and heirs the same land promise (Galatians 3:29) i.e. the world.
At this time we live in the world as strangers and pilgrims, much like Abraham did in the land of Canaan.
We are not called to conquer it, because that is the work of God when He judges it.

In the case of the children of Israel it was proven that some were heirs of Abraham's promise through the righteousness of their faith, but some were not.
National Israel incorporated both groups under the blessings of the Mosaic covenant, through which they possessed the land of Canaan.

We now have a situation where neither the curses or the blessings of the Mosaic covenant are in force, so the only inheritance that is still available is the older one, given to Abraham before the law.
The fact that the everlasting promise is for the whole resurrected world (including the land of Canaan of course), should be enough for Christians to know that establishing a nation in the land of Canaan is not our cause.

"establishing a nation in the land of Canaan is not our cause"

Of course not. God is in the business of raising nations - not the Church of this age. And these nations will be raised - in lock step to His infallible prophetic plan. Including the raising of the Nation Israel per the Ezekiel 37 prophecy, which is happening in real time.

[Rev 19:10 KJV]
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[cv5]

Have you checked out the new thread here....tribulation started at 70 ad.

Indeed it is true that the 70AD crowd are gluttons for punishment.

I foresee yet another bone crushing defeat for that sorry crew.

But one must consider that Satan and his crew lie, deny and blame the other guy right to the bitter end.....

 

[Beekeeper]

Beekeeper I believe said Israel is kicking out people in Israel?

That is a religious pilgrimage or maybe more like a tourist/PR thing.
I was speaking about people who have lived there permanently, and I know what I am talking about.

My older Generation posed no threat to Israelis, but were forced to leave their homes with what they could carry on their backs a long distance.
Shortly before this happened the mayor of their Christian village was shot in his car, a couple were shot in their home and two small boys were tortured to death in public.
The people were warned that if they did not leave immediately they would suffer the same fate.
My great grand parents, my parents and my father had lived in the same place through the Turkish and British times, and not experienced violence from any of the Arab population.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I think that I understand and agree with that.
I would also understand that those who have the faith of Abraham, who have faith in Jesus, are the seed of Abraham and heirs the same land promise (Galatians 3:29) i.e. the world.
At this time we live in the world as strangers and pilgrims, much like Abraham did in the land of Canaan.
We are not called to conquer it, because that is the work of God when He judges it.

In the case of the children of Israel it was proven that some were heirs of Abraham's promise through the righteousness of their faith, but some were not.
National Israel incorporated both groups under the blessings of the Mosaic covenant, through which they possessed the land of Canaan.

We now have a situation where neither the curses or the blessings of the Mosaic covenant are in force, so the only inheritance that is still available is the older one, given to Abraham before the law.
The fact that the everlasting promise is for the whole resurrected world (including the land of Canaan of course), should be enough for Christians to know that establishing a nation in the land of Canaan is not our cause.

Well, at least you're getting closer!

Still, the purpose of God/Jesus for raising the nation of Israel and setting them in the promised land is for the purpose of proving that He is God, proving that He keeps His promises, and proving that everything written was true to the entire world.

---

 

[Revelation1v8]

My older Generation posed no threat to Israelis, but were forced to leave their homes with what they could carry on their backs a long distance.
Shortly before this happened the mayor of their Christian village was shot in his car, a couple were shot in their home and two small boys were tortured to death in public.
The people were warned that if they did not leave immediately they would suffer the same fate.
My great grand parents, my parents and my father had lived in the same place through the Turkish and British times, and not experienced violence from any of the Arab population.

That is a travesty! What year did that happen?

---

 

[tourist]

I'd even expect it sooner

I certainly hope so. I am all set if Jesus would come back today. The sooner the better.

 

[God-fearing]

That is a religious pilgrimage or maybe more like a tourist/PR thing.
I was speaking about people who have lived there permanently, and I know what I am talking about.

My older Generation posed no threat to Israelis, but were forced to leave their homes with what they could carry on their backs a long distance.
Shortly before this happened the mayor of their Christian village was shot in his car, a couple were shot in their home and two small boys were tortured to death in public.
The people were warned that if they did not leave immediately they would suffer the same fate.
My great grand parents, my parents and my father had lived in the same place through the Turkish and British times, and not experienced violence from any of the Arab population.

Are you familiar with this?

The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In fact, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.

The law thus divides unbelievers theologically into those who have a book and profess what Islam recognizes as a divine religion and those who do not; politically into dhimmis, those who have accepted the supremacy of the Muslim state and the primacy of the Muslims, and harbis, the denizens of the Dar al-harb, the House of War, who remain outside the Islamic frontier, and with whom therefore there is in principle, a canonically obligatory perpetual state of war until the whole world is either converted or subjugated.​

 

[OMC]

Are you familiar with this?

The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In fact, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.

The law thus divides unbelievers theologically into those who have a book and profess what Islam recognizes as a divine religion and those who do not; politically into dhimmis, those who have accepted the supremacy of the Muslim state and the primacy of the Muslims, and harbis, the denizens of the Dar al-harb, the House of War, who remain outside the Islamic frontier, and with whom therefore there is in principle, a canonically obligatory perpetual state of war until the whole world is either converted or subjugated.​

I don't disagree that those concepts have existed in certain streams of classical Islamic thought.
My only concern is that we still have to distinguish between describing a legal or theological framework and describing every individual Muslim.

For example, if someone wanted to understand Christianity, I wouldn't want them judging all Christians by the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the worst things ever done in Christ's name.
I'd want them to look at what Christians actually believe and how individual Christians live.

More importantly, as Christians our response isn't determined by how someone views us.
It's determined by how Christ tells us to treat them.

Jesus said: "Love your enemies... pray for them which despitefully use you" (Matt. 5:44).
So even if someone does view me as an enemy, Christ still commands me to love them.

That doesn't mean ignoring persecution, being naïve, or pretending all religions teach the same thing.
It just means I can oppose false beliefs without hating the people who hold them.

So yes, understand the ideology.
Yes, be aware of real dangers.
But I think the Christian's first question should always be: "How does Christ want me to treat this person?"
The answer to that question never changes.

 

[Churchgoer]

That is a religious pilgrimage or maybe more like a tourist/PR thing.
I was speaking about people who have lived there permanently, and I know what I am talking about.

My older Generation posed no threat to Israelis, but were forced to leave their homes with what they could carry on their backs a long distance.
Shortly before this happened the mayor of their Christian village was shot in his car, a couple were shot in their home and two small boys were tortured to death in public.
The people were warned that if they did not leave immediately they would suffer the same fate.
My great grand parents, my parents and my father had lived in the same place through the Turkish and British times, and not experienced violence from any of the Arab population.

My jew friends ancestors were from that land, they call it Palestine by Roman, Turkish, British name. They are against current Israel state murdering, robbing too.

 

[HeIsHere]

That is a travesty! What year did that happen?

---

It is called the Nakba, seems you have a lot to learn.

 

[HeIsHere]

That is a religious pilgrimage or maybe more like a tourist/PR thing.
I was speaking about people who have lived there permanently, and I know what I am talking about.

My older Generation posed no threat to Israelis, but were forced to leave their homes with what they could carry on their backs a long distance.
Shortly before this happened the mayor of their Christian village was shot in his car, a couple were shot in their home and two small boys were tortured to death in public.
The people were warned that if they did not leave immediately they would suffer the same fate.
My great grand parents, my parents and my father had lived in the same place through the Turkish and British times, and not experienced violence from any of the Arab population.

At the time when this was happening it was not well known.
But now thanks to many excellent researchers the truth of what happened in Palestine has been extensively documented and made known. Many atrocities were committed.

 

[God-fearing]

At the time when this was happening it was not well known.
But now thanks to many excellent researchers the truth of what happened in Palestine has been extensively documented and made known. Many atrocities were committed.

As in many wars and conflicts that don't even involve Israel.
You and others here seem its your duty the micro manager every step every move reported by fake news or even true news and only look for the negative to give reason for your view to be right.
Bad actors are everywhere, it seems you and others here hold Israel to a higher standard than you claim we have

 

[Beekeeper]

Are you familiar with this?

The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In fact, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.

The law thus divides unbelievers theologically into those who have a book and profess what Islam recognizes as a divine religion and those who do not; politically into dhimmis, those who have accepted the supremacy of the Muslim state and the primacy of the Muslims, and harbis, the denizens of the Dar al-harb, the House of War, who remain outside the Islamic frontier, and with whom therefore there is in principle, a canonically obligatory perpetual state of war until the whole world is either converted or subjugated.​

I am not really familiar with that.
I know a few Muslims and I don't think they are familiar with it either, but I will ask them.
My grandparents told me that the ottoman times were peaceful.
They were neglectful of their empire for the main part, but put money into preserving historic and religious buildings, including churches.
Most of the old churches have been destroyed now by the Israelis.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is entirely overlooked when discussing “Israel” in the Scriptures. The ones Paul described as “the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) were from both Jewish and Gentile origin.

Even John the Baptist said to the Jewish leaders of his day ….

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves,‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
The axe is already laid at the root of the trees;therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.“ (Matt 3:7-10)

Genetic relationship to Abraham was not the most important thing…. if God could easily ‘raise up children to Abraham from the stones’, then he could easily replace an unworthy Israel with a more worthy ‘spiritual Israel’ as Rom 9:6-8 reveals. Having received the foretold “remnant “ of natural Israel into a new fold, (Rom 9:27) God then turned to the nations to “take out of them a people for his name”. (Acts 15:14)
His name as recorded in Scripture is YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah in English) A name that to this day, Israel refuses to utter. (Psalm 83:18; Exodus 3:15) God’s name is not “The Lord”…that is his title, but he is the one who revealed his unique name. God’s people were associated with his name and forbidden to take it in vain…to be uttered with the most reverence, as the Bible writers did in ancient times.

As a fleshly nation, Israel always proved to be unfaithful…. Ri bing reproach on the name of their God….so when God’s purpose was completed in them (producing the Messiah), God abandoned them to the nations and chose a new “Israel”…one founded on the teachings of the Messiah, and who would “prove faithful unto death”.

Those who cling to natural Israel because of God’s promises to them, fail to discern that he has no use for those who cannot, or will not obey him. “The children of the promise are counted as the seed”….
There is the replacement….and logically so.
Only those who follow Jesus as the Christ and acknowledge him as Messiah, will inherit the promises…..(Matt 23:37-39) but there is no impediment to any among the natural Jews from accepting Jesus and becoming Christians……all of the first Christians were Jewish….including Jesus himself.

Yes well said. the promises of Jesus and the gospel, the promises of the new covenant ect were all too isreal to restore them, but they didn’t recognize it when thier messiah came .

There’s a parable that really speaks to what you said and what happened but it’s supported throughout the ot prophets and nt epistles . It sums up gods relationship with Israel in the ot

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, ( early prophets sent to Israel to call for repentance ) that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.



Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( latter messianic prophets sent to isreal call for repentance and announce the messiah ms salvation to come ) and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, ( the messiah sent to save them ) saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-39, 41-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Really the ot prophets told this story before it happened


There’s a nation of faithful believers belonging to god too many to number throughout the ages …… but it has nothing to do with thoer flesh and blood heritage ….. it has to do with Jesus flesh and blood , and his spirit .

To be clear no israelite is rejected because they are isralite they aren’t excluded but called and welcomed into Christ it’s just that like many gentiles they reject Jesus Christ and the supremacy of the gospel anyone who repents and turns to him belongs to him

 

[Churchgoer]

Yes well said. the promises of Jesus and the gospel, the promises of the new covenant ect were all too isreal to restore them, but they didn’t recognize it when thier messiah came .

There’s a parable that really speaks to what you said and what happened but it’s supported throughout the ot prophets and nt epistles . It sums up gods relationship with Israel in the ot

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, ( early prophets sent to Israel to call for repentance ) that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.



Again, he sent other servants more than the first: ( latter messianic prophets sent to isreal call for repentance and announce the messiah ms salvation to come ) and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, ( the messiah sent to save them ) saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-39, 41-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Really the ot prophets told this story before it happened


There’s a nation of faithful believers belonging to god too many to number throughout the ages …… but it has nothing to do with thoer flesh and blood heritage ….. it has to do with Jesus flesh and blood , and his spirit .

To be clear no israelite is rejected because they are isralite they aren’t excluded but called and welcomed into Christ it’s just that like many gentiles they reject Jesus Christ and the supremacy of the gospel anyone who repents and turns to him belongs to him

Absolutely brother sister!!!

Praise to God.