The New Apostolic Reformation THE TRUTH

[1still_waters]

This is right out of her original post. Notice that the NAR is open to modalistic views of the Trinity...

Most would agree with the essential relationship of the three Persons of the Trinity as expressed in the Nicene Creed, although a few might prefer a more modalistic approach. All would agree on the Protestant principles of the authority of Scripture, justification by faith, and the priesthood of all believers.

That right there should put the NAR outside the bounds of orthodoxy.

 

[1still_waters]

The apostles of the NAR claiming they're like the original 12 apostles is like Nickelback claiming they're as good as the Beatles and Elvis combined.

 

[Abiding]

wrong.

wrong.


Yes, you are.

Eph 4:
8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Cessationism limits God, and makes the above verses false. They are not.

Really? Explain

 

[Abiding]

The apostles of the NAR claiming they're like the original 12 apostles is like Nickelback claiming they're as good as the Beatles and Elvis combined.

Actually i have record of them saying they would be WAY greater...in fact
they will become incarnate Christ on the earth.

 

[Abiding]

Leave it to Zone to believe an outsider's opinion over that of the person that FOUNDED IT in the first place. Why is it so easy for you to believe someone that is opposition when you get the truth right from the horse's mouth??

Your level of deception is AMAZING!

what deception...please provide

 

[Abiding]

God has promised great blessing to the land of Israel and its people (Dt. 28), and we can share in those blessings by faith. We have not replaced Israel, but are called to intercede for Israel's full restoration. God's goal is for Jew and Gentile to be united in faith as "One New Man," enjoying together the fullness of Abraham's blessings. As those who have been grafted into God's covenant, we are called to stand with God's covenant land. Every nation will be reconciled around this land (Ephesians 2:11-18).
Ephesians 2:11-18 says ZERO about LAND via ZONE

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, [a]excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near [c]by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [d]barrier of the dividing wall, 15 [e]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [f]make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [g]by it having put to death the enmity. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. The 'land' dear friend, is ISRAEL AND/OR THE PROMISE OF THE NEW EARTH. How sad that you could not 'get' that.

Sorry the land isnt Israel....why did you provide Ephesians 2....its counter to your arguement

 

[AnandaHya]

Red flags for anyone paying attention.... its a long message so I will just highlight the key passages and words in Red and comment in purple...

A MESSAGE FROM PETER ** November 21, 2011

THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION
What Are Its Beliefs?​

11-20-11 C. Peter Wagner

For the most part, the research being done is thorough and accurate. Yes, there are some flaws and serious omissions, but generally speaking the facts are there. The differences come in the interpretation of the facts. The NAR paradigm for the church pulls many observers out of their theological comfort zones, and some of them are not reluctant to express their concerns in the strongest language possible. A number of them actually consider me a heretic!

mmm might be something there... most of their facts are right...




A number of the observers pointed out that, in their research, they could not discover a formal NAR statement of faith. The reason for this is that none exists. We must keep in mind that the NAR is a movement; it is not an organization that one could join. There is substantial tacit unity among participants in NAR on the fundamental doctrines of the faith, but there is enormous diversity as to the various interpretations and applications of those doctrines, as well as how they would be prioritized in each individual case.

Tacit unity? no true unity its just a tactic?



What has fascinated me as much as anything about the NAR is the widespread tolerance of differences in belief and practice. .. And I could go on, but my point is that in the current NAR wineskin there is less and less of this kind of theological baggage. Post modernism and lukewarm theology hailed as a good thing? So sound doctrine falls under "theological baggage"?


Many, but not all, NAR apostolic networks and ministries have formulated their own statements of doctrines and beliefs. They would use different language, different formats, different priorities, and different attention to details. Most of them would be written by the apostolic leader of the group, and they would be subject to revision when and if necessary. None of them expresses the viewpoint of the entire NAR.


WE BELIEVE IN...

2. ISRAEL, AS GOD'S COVENANT NATION AND PEOPLE - God came to His covenant people first to redeem and restore communion to Himself. The people of Israel, the Jews, even in times of unbelief, are still His covenant people. When they rejected Him, He came to the Gentiles. We, "wild olive branches," are grafted into the root of Abraham to share in Israel's blessings. God has promised great blessing to the land of Israel and its people (Dt. 28), and we can share in those blessings by faith. We have not replaced Israel, but are called to intercede for Israel's full restoration. God's goal is for Jew and Gentile to be united in faith as "One New Man," enjoying together the fullness of Abraham's blessings. As those who have been grafted into God's covenant, we are called to stand with God's covenant land. Every nation will be reconciled around this land (Ephesians 2:11-18).

Israel is not physical its spiritual. the promise is to the SEED not the seeds of Abraham, who is Christ Jesus.



5. HOLY SPIRIT - Jesus overcame death, hell and the grave, and ascended to sit at Father's right hand. In ascending, He left Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity, here in the earth. The Holy Spirit comes to release the life and holiness of God to us. He points us to the fullness of Jesus. He desires to make us supernatural creatures, equipped to do the works of God in the earth. The Holy Spirit, working through humans, is the restraining force of evil in the earth realm. (To learn more about Holy Spirit we recommend you read The Book of Acts: A Commentary.)
umm what?


8. REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION - Your past does not have to control your future. You can disqualify yourself from ministry by choosing to violate God's Word, but if you truly repent, God will always open a path to restoration. Your destiny is not ruined when you make a mistake. A key to walking in restoration and blessing is the concept of firstfruits. If we bring God our best, then He will bless the rest. (To learn more about redemption and restoration, we suggest you read Redeeming the Time and Possessing Your Inheritance.) so sin is not sin but "mistakes"...firstfruits talk about fruits of the Spirit not of money or tithes...hmmm maybe if I read the pamplet??



9. CELEBRATING FIRSTFRUITS and GIVING - Giving and sacrifice are keys to worship. We give as He gave. He gave His best, His only son. Therefore, because of our gratitude for that gift, we are motivated and excited about giving our best. He gave us life, so with all that we have we want to honor Him first. Jesus said, "Seek the Kingdom first and all will be added to you!" Proverbs 3:9, 10 says, "Honor the Lord with your possessions, and with the firstfruits of your increase; so your barns will be filled with plenty and your vats with new wine!" God instituted the celebration of Rosh Chodesh at each New Moon (Lev. 23, Num. 28:11-15, Ps. 8:13). When we bring our best or firstfruits to Him and celebrate by worshipping Him, we will continue to move from harvest to harvest. is this leading into the Word of Faith prosperity false gospel? you know Paul was poor, beaten, imprisoned, etc and yet Jesus tells us to store up treasures in HEAVEN not seeking worldly fleshly lusts and fulfillment....hmm....



10. COMMUNION WITH GOD through DEMONSTRATIVE AND INTIMATE WORSHIP: A FAITH EXPRESSION - In the beginning, God planted a garden and made humans the tenders of that garden. This was God's place where He could commune with humans. That is still His goal. He told Moses to prepare a special place where He could dwell among His people. We are called to establish God's manifest presence and power in a place so that from that place we can be sent forth. This is God's principle of tabernacling with humans. Because of our belief in Jesus' resurrection, we are called to worship. Our worship is linked into His resurrection power. God wants the worship that takes place in heaven to be manifested in the earth. Our highest call is to be worshipers of the true and living Creator-God. As we worship Him, His presence is manifested in our midst. As we praise, He inhabits our being and our place. Our worship is an expression of faith. Worship unlocks revelation. hmmm no talk about private prayer closets? just the yelling in streets and highest seats in the synagouge stuff?



11. THE OPERATION OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS - When Jesus ascended He gave gifts to humankind. These gifts enable God's people to operate in supernatural dimensions and thereby accomplish the Father's purposes in the earth. God calls all His people to minister with these gifts - regardless of gender, race, identity or past sin. God provided a specific order and alignment for these gifts (first apostle, second prophet, third teacher...) so that His people can be equipped to function as a mighty army in the earth. The Holy Spirit is in the earth to manifest these gifts in God's people, from generation to generation. (We suggest you read Experiencing the Spirit and Your Spiritual Gifts Can Help Your Church Grow to learn more about spiritual gifts.) oh goody another pamplet..."supernatural" ? is that the same as spiritual? is this where you go around chasing and casting out demons you claim are in others, instead of just praying and trust God to send His angels to do it?



12. THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND APOSTOLIC GOVERNMENT - We serve a King who is advancing a Kingdom. The King has chosen to position His Kingdom within humankind. He sends those who have His Kingdom within them into every aspect of society's culture. The Kingdom of God is here now! The seven mountains of society are meant to be influenced and dominated by the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom has Jesus Christ as the cornerstone and apostles properly related to prophets form the foundation of the Kingdom. Apostles create and execute God's prototype plan in the earth and through each nation of the earth until there is a house of prayer built for every people group. Jesus taught us to pray that God's Kingdom would come to earth as it is in heaven. (To learn more about the Kingdom of God we recommend you read Apostles Today and Apostles and Prophets.) hmmm read about the seven mountains in Revelations, they are represented by the seven heads of the Beast that comes out of the sea...you know the whole AntiChrist world system and all...



13. PROPHETS AND PROPHECY - We believe God speaks today. Prophecy is an outflow of God's heart, nature and mind. We are called to seek all spiritual gifts, but especially to prophesy (1 Cor. 14:1). The privilege of every believer is to learn to hear and interact with the Father's voice. God promises if we will pay attention to His prophets, we will succeed! Knowing that God speaks is not enough; we must hear and respond to the voice of the one speaking! Prophets decree heaven's will. (To learn more about prophets and prophecy, we recommend you read The Future War of the Church, God's Unfolding Battle Plan, and Fighting for Your Prophetic Promises.) no we are to listen to the HOLY SPIRIT who teachs all of God's children. Pay attention to GOD. God wants us to have a relationship with HIM not with the messangers and we are to test the prophets and see if they speak words that lead to GOD or to fleshly desires and false visions. Succeed? in what? money, wealth, material things? or leading people to GOD? we don't succeed, GOD does. all glory should be for HIM.



14. SPIRITUAL WARFARE - Because we represent a Kingdom, we are at war to enforce Kingdom principles and plans in the earth. We are at war and must be equipped to stand against the enemy. Accomplishing God's purposes on earth is not without opposition. We are called to stand against the enemy and set his captives free. To enable us to stand in warfare, God provides His spiritual armor and weapons. We war from our abiding place in God. We ascend in worship and then descend in war. When you have conquered one enemy, the warfare for that season ends and you enter the REST of the land (Hebrews 4). (To learn more about spiritual warfare, we recommend you read Prayers that Outwit the Enemy, Restoring Your Shield of Faith and Spiritual Warfare Strategies.)What? guess i'll have to read this pamplet to figure out if what he is teaching is Biblical or not...


15. THE COMMISSION TO DISCIPLE and HEAL NATIONS - From the beginning of God's covenant with Abraham, His plan was to bless all the nations. One of the purposes of the nation of Israel was to show the other nations how they could relate to God. They were to live in such a way that the glory of the Lord would be on them and Gentiles would be drawn to them (Is. 60). His House was to be a joyful House of Prayer for all the nations (Is. 56:6-7). When the Jews rejected Jesus, they missed fulfilling this portion of their destiny. But that did not negate God's plan for all the nations to be blessed. Through Jesus, the Messiah, there is a remnant that has formed, called the Church. This group is called to be a light to the nations to all that unredeemed Israel did not reach. Through the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit, the Church can display the power and glory of God for sinners to be drawn to salvation and equipped to do the works of Jesus in the earth. God promised Abraham that all the nations of the earth would be blessed through him. Before He ascended, Jesus sent His disciples out to fulfill this promise and commanded them to disciple the nations - helping whole nations to be disciples of the Lord. From generation to generation, the Lord develops His Church to disciple the nations until the fullness of His plan has been completed and all nations have been restored. This is the outworking of God's covenant promise to Abraham. Because Gentiles are grafted into this covenant, we can fulfill our commission.

- end -

no such thing as UNREDEEMED Israel. the CHURCH is both JEWS and GENTILES who have been redeemed by the BLOOD of JESUS. the CHURCH IS ISRAEL!

anyways.....the pamplets don't sound very promising.. want to analyze them to see if they hold up to the Biblical test?

 

[notIbutChrist]

So you believe there are still apostles?

Absolutely! Can you find ANYWHERE in Scripture where is says that they were to come to an end and WHEN they were to come to an end?

No, you can't because it is not there.

Maggie

Good answer

 

[notIbutChrist]

zone, you have no idea how much error you promote. Being a loud, insistent, and prolific poster does not make you right. You are steering people AWAY from truth.

Wow, this is sooo true, yet I don't she will ever second guess which spirit she is lead by. Too bad though. If she knew she might repent

 

[Abiding]

Wow, this is sooo true, yet I don't she will ever second guess which spirit she is lead by. Too bad though. If she knew she might repent

Please elaborate..which spirit your implying...then explain

 

[Abiding]

Good answer

what are the duties and requirements of an Apostle?
im sure you have the good answer

 

[MaggieMye]

Post 39, that is just silly! I don't know what version you used, but "super" anything is not in the Bible. You have very much misunderstood this bit of scripture and have wrongly 'divided' it. REread it:

NASB: 5 For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles.Here Paul says that he does NOT consider himself to be inferior to the other well known apostles. Do you see that? PAUL was acknowleging that the people considered certain other apostles to be reputable and he, Paul did NOT consider himself anything less than they. 6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.

7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you without charge? 8 I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you; 9 and when I was present with you and was in need, I was not a burden to anyone; for when the brethren came from Macedonia they fully supplied my need, and in everything I kept myself from being a burden to you, [d]and will continue to do so. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be stopped in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those
who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.

Here Paul is simply saying that he will attempt to cut off anyone that is false and TRYING TO PASS THEMSELVES OFF AS ONE OF THOSE OF WHOM HE ASSOCIATES HIMSELF WITH, those being the apostles considered of Christ and reputable. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

*de-long chunk-paragraphed by 1still_waters...it was VERY hard to read in the original form*

 

[1still_waters]

Post 39, that is just silly! I don't know what version you used, but "super" anything is not in the Bible. You have very much misunderstood this bit of scripture and have wrongly 'divided' it. REread it:

NASB: 5 For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles.Here Paul says that he does NOT consider himself to be inferior to the other well known apostles. Do you see that? PAUL was acknowleging that the people considered certain other apostles to be reputable and he, Paul did NOT consider himself anything less than they. 6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.

7 Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you without charge? 8 I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you; 9 and when I was present with you and was in need, I was not a burden to anyone; for when the brethren came from Macedonia they fully supplied my need, and in everything I kept myself from being a burden to you, [d]and will continue to do so. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be stopped in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those
who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.

Here Paul is simply saying that he will attempt to cut off anyone that is false and TRYING TO PASS THEMSELVES OFF AS ONE OF THOSE OF WHOM HE ASSOCIATES HIMSELF WITH, those being the apostles considered of Christ and reputable. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

*de-long chunk-paragraphed by 1still_waters...it was VERY hard to read in the original form*

No the 'super' apostles are false apostles he's referencing. The entire context is about him vs. false apostles.

Look in your footnotes in some of the other translations. He's sarcastically talking about the apostles who snuck in and were deceiving them.

 

[MaggieMye]

I disagree.

 

[Abiding]

wrong.

wrong.


Yes, you are.

Eph 4:
8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Cessationism limits God, and makes the above verses false. They are not.

How? How can God be limited? Explain Please!

 

[1still_waters]

It's a complete joke to compare modern day 'apostles' to the original 12. The modern day ones don't even come close and it's an insult to the original 12 for these modern day ones to even attempt to wear the label apostle.

None of these modern day apostles have the authority, persecution, suffering or purity of the original 12. Modern day 'apostles' are pampered humans, carrying the dignity of the title, without being subject to any of the severe indignity the original 12 suffered. That in and of itself is an indignity.

 

[Bloodwashed]

Boy oh Boy! Saints are all over the map on just about every topic! I saw Chuck Pierce, he spoke at an Elijah List conference I attended about a year ago. I bought his book, " The Worship Warrior." It was great! If this is all demonic, these demons are going to get themselves fired. My love and devotion to Christ seems to be growing by leaps. He talks to me, & I'm willing to do what He asks. Things me and my nature would never do. He gets all the credit, it is not I that liveth, but Christ in me.

Someone said, " It's a complete joke to compare modern day 'apostles' to the original 12." Did some one claim that for them? 56 posts, I confess I haven't read them all! God Bless! Love you all! Mark

 

[shroom2]

How? How can God be limited? Explain Please!

By people not believing His word. People deny the gift ministries, and the manifestations of holy spirit. They claim the gift ministries are false, and think the manifestations have ceased. God wants us to know what is available to us, the power we have through Christ. People deny it, and don't do it. God's hands are tied.

Note that i believe many of the popular "TV Apostles" or whatever you want to call them, are false. That does not mean the gift ministries have ceased. God has no control to prevent a charlatan from claiming to be "anointed".

 

[zone]

Chuck Pierce and Kabbalah: Month of Nissan

In the first of our series of articles about Chuck Pierce and his promotion of Kabbalah, we take a look at the month of Nissan/Nisan.

According to Chuck Pierce, all months have some sort of spiritual (mystical, actually) significance. This, he claims, is because God created each month that way. Like much of what Mr. Pierce claims, however, that's not in the Bible. So where did he come up with that idea? Quite simply, he got it from Kabbalah. Consider the following from the Sepher Yetzirah, one of the central texts of Kabbalah. On the month of Nisan, it says:

"God produced He [Hei], predominant in Speech, crowned, combined, and formed Aries in the world, Nisan in the year, and the right foot of man."

Notice the emphasis on 1) the power of speech, 2) astrology (Aries is the Ram), and 3) the right foot. According to Kabbalah, each month is connected to some human sense or expression (sight, hearing, movement, etc.), an astrological zodiac sign (Aries, Leo, Gemini, etc.), as well as a part of the body (stomach, spleen, etc.).

It might interest you to know that Chuck Pierce follows this precise pattern in explaining the so-called significance of the Hebrew months. Here's a summary of what Chuck Pierce has to say about the month of Nisan/Nissan:

"This month [Nisan] represents the annual renewal of God's HEI plan...the month to decree, by speech, your future...This is the month of the RAM...where you put your best foot forward --the 'right foot' month."

Keep in mind, Chuck Pierce made these statements specifically about the month of Nisan. Need more convincing? Here's more:

MONTH OF REDEMPTION
Kabbalah: Nissan is referred to as "the month of the redemption."
Pierce: This is the month of redemption.

ARIES/RAM/ASTROLOGY
Kabbalah: "The Book of Formation says, 'He crowned the letter Hei and created with it Aries in the world...'"
Kabbalah: "God produced He [Hei]...and formed Aries in the world...'"
Pierce: "This is the month of the RAM or (lamb). Look for your RAM in the bush."

POWER OF SPEECH
Kabbalah: "God produced He [Hei], predominant in Speech..."
Kabbalah: "This world, created by the letter hei of Nissan, is one that is founded upon verbal communication."
Kabbalah: "Sense: Speech. -- The sense of speech implies ones ability to express his deepest feelings..."
Pierce: "This is the month to decree, by speech, your future. SPEAK FORTH your expected end..."

MIRACLES
Kabbalah: Nissan is a month of miracles (nissim)....according to our sages, nissei nissim [means] 'miracles of miracles.'"
Pierce: This is the month of the beginning of miracles--BELIEVE!

RIGHT FOOT
Kabbalah: "God produced He...Nisan in the year, and the right foot of man."
Kabbalah: "Controller: right foot. Just as "speaking" means "to lead," so does one's walking with one's right foot, the foot of trust and confidence
Pierce: "This is the "controller" month where you put your best foot forward--the "right foot" month."

EMOTIONAL BAGGAGE
Kabbalah: There are deep unsolved emotional residues bubbling up this month...Sad situations are shouting for help at this time.
Kabbalah: It is going to be a month full of fire, meaning there is a strong energy pushing us forward, a drive to leave existing situations for a new reality, and new ideas and thinking.
Kabbalah: These days provide us with the environment we need to work and build a positive consciousness to remove any negative actions we did and harmed in this life time or previous reincarnations,
Pierce: Decree that all anxiety, fear, doubt, anger, frustration, guilt, jealousy, and envy from past iniquity in your life will be removed.
Pierce: He paid for you by His BLOOD, so you could be released from any prison that is holding you.
Pierce: Cut ties with any immorality that has been a part of your bloodline, or the land where you are the steward.

At the risk of stating the obvious, this is not a coincidence. Chuck Pierce is systematically and deceptively integrating New Age mysticism, in the form of Kabbalah, into Christianity -- and the folks at Elijah List have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

So there you have it. That's the month of Nissan according to Chuck Pierce, the Kabbalist. Only eleven months to go.

Until I get around to my next post, you might want to research this on your own. Here are some of the links I used for this article:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm
http://www.inner.org/times/nissan/nissan.htm
https://www.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=life/astrology/aries
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6345
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/4045


Posted by Wyatt Roberts at 1:55 PM

Labels: Chuck Pierce, False Prophets, Heresy, Hucksters, Kabbalah

Y@'s Blog: Chuck Pierce and Kabbalah: Month of Nissan

 

[Abiding]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAcmReMx6fI&feature=related[/video]



this is a random session of the great apostle/prophet Chuck Pierce.

Doesnt this sound just like the original Apostles?