The New Apostolic Reformation THE TRUTH

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'APOSTLE' CHUCK PIERCE

September 23, 2009 · 8:37 am
Chuck Pierce and the New Age “Sound”

Chuck Pierce has become obsessed with “sound” lately….. For those who have never seen it here’s the video from last year’s “Starting the Year off Right” conference with Robert Heidler, Chuck Pierce and C. Peter Wagner. In this video you can see the extent of their dominionist teachings going so far as to believe that as they join their “sound” with the “sound of heaven” that their actual cell structures are changing. This is classic manifest sons teaching that the body will be ‘translated” into an immortal body before the Lord returns. This reminds me of the new agers doing a harmonic convergence with TM.

Here are some transcripts:

Chuck Pierce, “Some of you feel your body moving. Let it move with the sound of heaven. Some of your organs will come alive in a new way.”

Someone begins singing these words, “The sounds of heaven…”

Chuck Pierce: “I see highways forming. Ways are being made for my people … The waves of sound are creating the way you will go in the season ahead.”

Singing, “The sound creates a highway.”

……..of DNA being reprogrammed by the sound of heaven going into bodies like laser of healings.”

Chuck Pierce: “God says a healing movement is beginning.” “It is part of my dominion.” Chuck Pierce: “I see the earth that has been so filled with iniquity. Chuck Pierce: “I see him rising up and saying ‘I hear the sound of heaven. I see the sound of heaven realigning man to bring forth the PLAN of the land.”

What plan is there to realign man to bring forth the plan of the land??? The man of the earth is the first Adam, but we are of the man from Heaven! This is so far off base and new age!

...................

 

[zone]

CHUCK PIERCE [N.A.R.] CONT....

And here’s a quote from a newsletter he sent out last May. Notice how many times he uses the word “sound”

This is a time that the Lord is doing a major work in the earth. Shaking and hovering are the two words I am hearing in my spirit. I hear the Lord saying that He is hovering over New Orleans in a new way. I see Him hovering over Pittsburgh now. I see Him going up and down the Pacific coast of America and hovering. I see that He is going to begin to invade the Pacific Coast of this nation. Both sides of Mexico are being invaded by the Spirit.

When I began to see this, I heard the Lord say: “There are three levels of sound I must bring through My people today. I must bring the sound of history that has caused their blood to remain flowing in Me and created the legacy of Me within the generations. I must bring forth the sound of the present that is causing their blood to come alive and producing the power in them to persevere through circumstances and endure in their trials. I must bring forth the sound of the future that will cause My people to have an expectation, an excitement of the power of My visitation and advancing glory in the earth. I’m blending these three sounds right now, in this moment, to change the course of the earth realm.”

“Now is the day that I am destroying what has covered you in the past. I am lifting layers and veils from My people that have set reproaches in motion and blocked new entry ways. I will NOW rise up and cover you in a new way. My hands are clapping, so in the midst of your wreck and ruin, clap. In the midst of your emotional struggle, clap. In the midst of your home, go through and clap and decree that what is not lit will light up.” It’s like those “clap on” lights! All of a sudden, when you clap, a room will light up. The Spirit of God says, “Start clapping and decree the darkness that has held certain areas captive will begin to light up.”

“There are many who are not even seeking Me that I’m going to meet, surprise and rearrange their lives. Call forth My hovering power over those that aren’t even aware I can hover over them. In the midst of the Earth I am looking for those who will say, ‘Here I am; here I am; I hear a sound calling me forth; here I am.’”

“There are sounds in the earth that you are not getting low enough to hear, and there’s a groaning. All creation is groaning. Humble yourself and get low enough to hear the sound. If you will get into that humble state before Me, you will see My hovering power; you will begin to hear what the ground under you is groaning, how you need to walk, and how you need to act. Put your ear to the ground for there are now sounds in the earth that are coming into agreement with Heaven. There are sounds in the land that need to be heard. These sounds (from your iniquitous bloodline) have been deposited in the land your ancestors have walked.”

“My earth has a heart that beats and you’ve not understood the power of creation. You have lost the beating heart of creation. Therefore, I cannot be creative in your midst. I’ve put My voice in every living thing, but it is your voice that rules. So in the midst of My voice groaning in other objects that can’t speak, you must speak for them.

(Seriously, this sounds like pantheism!)

I have seated you in heavenly places, but you must put your ear to the earth where you walk so that I can use you to bring into agreement, from My heavenly realm, that which I am longing to create in the earth. The deep uttered its voice and lifted its hands on high.”

“At certain times, lower your head before Me in submission, and if you will do that, you will rise and come into a new place of communion. Do not keep your head raised above others at all times this week, for I am a God that will cause you to miss a certain blow, if you will stay before Me and at the right moment bend your knees, I will save you from experiencing a hit from the enemy this week.”
“Recognize the sound of creation that’s groaning, and let Me rise and bring your spirit man into agreement with the sound of the land and the hovering of My Spirit. I’ve stretched out My hand in the midst of My hovering; I am extending My hand, and though you’ve not known My love, look up and grab hold of that which you don’t know and let Me pull you forward. Fear not the sound of the shaking. Fear not that place where I will cause you to be very aware and let you hear the shaking. Then you can announce what will shake and you will cause many to be sheltered in a new way. Rise through the wreck and the ruin and the groaning that is around you. Rise and allow My Spirit that is hovering to rest on the earth, and you be My divine connector.”

Seriously, my Bible says to have a renewed mind and that we are seated with Christ in Heavenly places, so why is Chuck Pierce “prophecying” that Christians need to put their ears to the ground and hear the sounds of the earth? The earth is a type of the fallen earthly man! But we are of the heavenly man. It is not a coincidence that he is referencing the verses that talk about the earth groaning waiting for the sons of God to be manifest.

According to manifest sons doctrine we will all be transformed as we walk upon the earth.

Chuck Pierce and the New Age “Sound” | Truthspeaker’s Weblog

 

[CrimsonFlames]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAcmReMx6fI&feature=related[/video]



this is a random session of the great apostle/prophet Chuck Pierce.

Doesnt this sound just like the original Apostles?

The kingdom people riding upon the back of mammon?

Am I the only one thinking Ive heard this somewhere before ^^

 

[zone]

RUN AWAY FROM THESE GUYS.
REPENT.




ZERO intention of EVER submitting to these guys.
never.

 

[Abiding]

By people not believing His word. People deny the gift ministries, and the manifestations of holy spirit. They claim the gift ministries are false, and think the manifestations have ceased. God wants us to know what is available to us, the power we have through Christ. People deny it, and don't do it. God's hands are tied.

Note that i believe many of the popular "TV Apostles" or whatever you want to call them, are false. That does not mean the gift ministries have ceased. God has no control to prevent a charlatan from claiming to be "anointed".

Actually nothing will stop the providential working power of God. Gifts are given.
If anything hurts the church its the man handling of the ministry, focus on man.
Tell me which manifestations your talking about that "helps God" not be limited.
I believe Gods word. But my thinking is if alot people cant see a sign or wonder
or think they are making a big wave their faith goes out the window.

Tell me how the manifestations help.

 

[Abiding]

feel free to post more favorite Apostles...ill dig up their work
then we can hold them to the word....even tho most of them never
use the word.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

So here we have a whore riding upon beast about to become drunk in the blood of the saints

the 15th precept they present in the original post.., the right to discipline

I've said it all along.., it will be the false church who persecutes the saints., anyone who dont agree with these people will be branded heretics

Get ready for the new dark ages peoples!

 

[zone]

Monday, August 22, 2011

C. Peter Wagner Spins the NAR,

Issues A Public Statement

Post-denominational churches. The next church. New paradigm churches. They are all names that have been used to describe a new kind of church that is emerging at the close of the twentieth century and the dawn of the third millennium. The current reformation underway is not so much a reformation of faith as it is one of practice, not so much against apostasy as it is against irrelevance in a warp speed culture. Missiologist/researcher/author C. Peter Wagner has adopted the term, New Apostolic Reformation, to characterize this movement of God that is reshaping Protestant Christianity in the US and around the world. His new book, Churchquake!, to be released in March, seeks to identify the dynamics of this movement and chronicle the distinguishing characteristics of this new wineskin. We thank Wagner and his publisher, Regal Press, for their permission to print excerpts in this issue of NEXT.​

--Leadership Network, NEXT, Vol 5, No 1, Jan-Mar 1999​

C. Peter Wagner issued a letter late last week that discusses the recent controversy about the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and International House of Prayer (IHOP) in the media and the American political scene.

Wagner's letter, titled "THE NEW APOSTOLIC REFORMATION: An Update" was issued for the apparent purpose of doing damage control over the recent characterization of the NAR as a Dominionist cult, especially in the mainstream press. Recent public attention in the media has shed light on his entire NAR empire, and his letter indicates that he is very concerned about their image. He begins his letter with the sentence, "Surprisingly, the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) has recently become a topic of discussion in the political media."

Surprisingly? But what else could he expect? His group of self-appointed, self-anointed apostles and prophets, which has grown and thrived under the radar for over a decade in charismatic circles, has within the past year and a half come out as a key player in American Religious Right politics, beginning with the extraordinary May Day prayer event at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C. on May 1, 2010. We wrote about it in a series of articles at the time, here, here, here and here at the time.

Since that time many of the leaders of the IHOP and NAR movements have deftly moved out of the closet and into direct political action. And these apostles and prophets are now fully supported by a second tier of leading media moguls in the evangelical world, including the influential Family Research Council and the American Family Association. Everything changed when Texas Governor Rick Perry, now a presidential candidate, began associating himself with the NAR at his public prayer rally, "The Response" held on August 6th. We published many articles voicing concern about this situation. Why were we concerned? It wasn't about the politics of the situation. It was about the strange and aberrant doctrines and practices of this formerly obscure cult, which has now suddenly propelled itself onto a front and center national stage, and which has religious and political goals that are totally antithetical to biblical Christianity. We wrote:

~

• IHOP Enters Dominion/Christian Right Politics: IHOP is starting to feel its Dominion oats
• IHOP: International House of Political Action: IHOP Enters Dominion/Christian Right Politics, Part 2
• IHOP & the NAR: The Formation of a Revolution
• IHOP's New Breed Leaders
• Prayer Warfare Evangelism: The New Order Prayer Cover
• Divorcing Baal: Part 1: Divorce and Remarriage, Political Dominion Style
• Divorcing Baal for Dominion: Part 2: Divorcing Baal
• The Baal Covenant: Part 3: Divorcing Baal

..............

 

[zone]

In his letter, Wagner denies that the NAR is a cult, and claims that the NAR represents no doctrinal change. However, this statement is preposterous in light of his extensive public record of working on a new apostolic "paradigm" for both church structure and theology. He goes so far as to claim, "The NAR is not an organization," even though he has headed up the crucial networking elements that form its power base from the very beginning. Much of the factual details are documented very well at Sandy Simpson's Deception In The Church website, which has chronicled Wagner's activities for the past several decades, e.g. here, here, here and here. The truth is that Wagner's apostolic structure, which positions apostles and prophets in a hierarchical downline network over individuals, groups and organizations, represents both a major doctrinal change and a structural change.

Technically, the NAR may not be an organization, but it is a network. And as such, this network has, by stealth and cunning, superimposed itself on top of nearly every existing denominational structure in the country. This aggressive networking has set up entirely new avenues of authority and accountability, until existing structures and theologies have been compromised and eroded, or completely taken over by the NAR and/or one of its related networks. And through its Dominionist goals, the NAR hopes that its network can superimpose itself over existing community, cultural and governmental structures across the land, which is referred to as the Seven Mountains.

Several years ago we ran a series of Herescope posts about Wagner's NAR networking structure -- a series which explains how his networking empire was built, and the theology behind it:

~

• The Networking Church: Part 1: NETWORKING FOR TRANSFORMATION
• The Networking Church: Part 2: Restoration Through Transformation
• Networking for an Army: Networking the Church: Part 3
• The Return of the Warrior-Prophets: Networking the Church: Part 4
• Militant Apostles: Networking the Church: Part 5
• Apostolic Spheres of Authority: Networking the Church: Part 6
• Post-Apostolic: Networking the Church: Part 7
• The Synergy River: Networking the Church: Part 8

At the time of this series we wrote explanations like these:


This new church structure is based on a revolutionary interpretation of the “five-fold ministries” (Ephesians 2:20-21; 4:11-13) based upon the esoteric doctrines of the Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God cult.

In this evolutionary twist, the Church (as an organic whole) needs to come into full "maturity" by restructuring itself into networking cells that are governed by apostles and prophets. It is claimed that this will "activate" the Church to become fully operational as a body on Earth, unified to fulfill its manifest destiny (fulfill the Great Commission) -- a global army that heralds the return of “Christ.”

A core heresy of the New Apostolic Reformation is that the Church must “incarnate” Christ; i.e., become deified through this restructuring process. A corollary to this doctrine creates the dominionism mandate whereby the church is empowered to act as agents of Christ on earth, crushing His enemies and building His Kingdom.

C. Peter Wagner has served as a one-man public relations firm for the widespread propagation of the new doctrines associated with the apostolic networks. In the latter half of the 1990s, key conferences were held in which he laid the groundwork for the creation of these apostolic networks. He constantly refined and re-defined the doctrines as he went along (sometimes very publicly); and has written numerous books on the topic, and introductions for books by other authors.

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2011/08/c-peter-wagner-spins-nar.html

etc.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

Whether or not these are the 7 mountains spoken of in revelations is neither here the there.., the fact these people would even choose to use this symbology is alarming.., what even more alarming is how Christians are just swallowing it hook line and sinker

 

[zone]

Joint Prophecies of Rick Joyner (NAR/Knight of Malta) & Rabbi Cohen

at Messiah'99 ​

Hashivenu.org is a Messianic Jewish organization located on the campus of Fuller Theological Seminary. Its president, Stuart Dauermann, a doctoral student and teacher at Fuller, was also a past speaker at the Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE). The first "'Core Principle of Hashivenu" states: "Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, and not a cosmetically altered 'Jewish-style' version of what is extant in the wider Christian community." Among Hashivenu's "Favorite Links" is listed The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA).

In July of 1999, the MJAA sponsored Messiah'99, a conference held in conjunction with the Young Messianic Jewish Alliance and the International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues. The Messiah '99 Brochure announced that conference speakers would include Rick Joyner of Morning Star Ministries, Stephen Strang, editor of ‘Charisma’ Magazine and Stephen Katz, a recruiter for Jews for Jesus. These speakers were presented as being among "Over sixty of Messianic Judaism's most respected teachers conducting Workshops, Panels, Teaching, Preaching. . ."

In a joint presentation to Messiah '99, MJAA President Rabbi Robert Cohen and Rick Joyner of MorningStar Ministries laid out a prophetic vision for the Messianic Jewish Movement. Highlights of the Prophecies given by Rick Joyner and Rabbi Cohen are as follows:

~​

• The 1970s, when Jerusalem returned to Jewish hands, was the end of the Gentile Age.
• The 1990s are moving on the spirit of revival that began with the Jesus Movement, which was the source of the Messianic movement.
• The Messianic people are a prophetic righteous remnant, "that are calling the Church back to their Jewish roots" and "they are back to become a prophetic call to the nation of Israel."
• Messianic people are, "THE HEAD," meaning, of the Body of Christ and the First Fruits.
• Whole communities will come to Y’eshua because of their witness.
• Jews and Gentiles will be looking to the Messianics to explain the Word of God.
• Joyner expressed a concern that Messianics: ". . .would not be corrupted by too many relationships with the Church" and that they are not supposed to be like the Church nor the Church like them as that would, "mess everything up."
• Racism is one of the ultimate enemies.
• There is a revolution going on in the Church.
• Reconciliation happens when there is restitution, and there’s going to be a lot of restitution for the Messianic people as Jews.
• Messianic people will have a better ability to witness, heal, discern and utilize spiritual gifts than others.
• Messianics are going to help us (the Church) restore our foundations to where they belong -- and we won’t get where we’re supposed to be without their help.

http://www.seekgod.ca/cohenjoyner.htm

 

[shroom2]

Actually nothing will stop the providential working power of God. Gifts are given.
If anything hurts the church its the man handling of the ministry, focus on man.
Tell me which manifestations your talking about that "helps God" not be limited.
I believe Gods word. But my thinking is if alot people cant see a sign or wonder
or think they are making a big wave their faith goes out the window.

Tell me how the manifestations help.

1) speaking in tongues builds a person up spiritually, it prayer and praise to God, and giving thanks well.
2) interpretation of tongues and prophesy edify the body of believers.
3) word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits help us know that we're dealing with in various situations in life, and what to do about it.
4) faith is the ability to have the faith to perform miracles and healings
5) miracles and gifts of healings have rather obvious benefits.

You don't think those things would help a Christian in his walk?

 

[zone]

Whether or not these are the 7 mountains spoken of in revelations is neither here the there.., the fact these people would even choose to use this symbology is alarming.., what even more alarming is how Christians are just swallowing it hook line and sinker

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

 

[Abiding]

1) speaking in tongues builds a person up spiritually, it prayer and praise to God, and giving thanks well.
2) interpretation of tongues and prophesy edify the body of believers.
3) word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits help us know that we're dealing with in various situations in life, and what to do about it.
4) faith is the ability to have the faith to perform miracles and healings
5) miracles and gifts of healings have rather obvious benefits.

You don't think those things would help a Christian in his walk?

These things happen all the time in every church and group ive belonged to;
without the manifestations as you know them. Although i would have to say
its the Holyspirit that empowers all believers...i can not say i believe that
what you have named is necessary, having been on both sides. I prefer seeing
a mighty miracle working God and the regenerating work of the Spirit of God
without the spiritual pretence of what i see as emotional hype and flesh.
Im not saying there are no gifts given to us...i believe there are....but not as
you see in todays charismatic churches where everyone has one....when at best
most are tares yet all are the same when it comes to the socalled manifestations.

Dont worry tho as most charismatics tell me ....i have to experience it myself to judge.
Well i have...and will say the same to all charismatics....youll have to experience the
Lord without the chaos first to see His power flows among us noncharismatics.

As far as limiting God. Ha thats just funny....youll live long enough to see this NAR
or a group like it lead this end time apostacy to the end. It wont come from
the gospel preaching bible teaching church. Or those who follow their apostles who
left their work in the pages of the bible. The later takes faith, the former takes sight,
and constant subjective experiences.

 

[Cheekygrin]

I read a lot of accusation. But not much peace or building up in love.
Proverbs 10:19 - When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise.

I have not heard the message of "Reclaiming the 7 Mountains" before. However, destroying the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) and seeking to build God's Kingdom (Matthew 6:33) in these areas seems like a great idea to me. Much better than separating ourselves (Hebrews10:39) and barricading ourselves off from the world with walls of lifeless religious doctrine (Mark 12:24, 2 Timothy 3:5). We are supposed to let our light shine for all men to see, so that they may see our good works and praise our Father in Heaven (Matthew 5:16).

what are the duties and requirements of an Apostle?
im sure you have the good answer

This really deserves another entire forum topic post Abiding. But I'd be happy to teach you what I know about this privately assuming you were serious in your question and not just being snarky towards notIbutChrist


(Christ's words referenced in red just 'cos I think He's so cool)

 

[zone]

experience the Lord without the chaos.

Renoir

 

[zone]

No the 'super' apostles are false apostles he's referencing. The entire context is about him vs. false apostles.

Look in your footnotes in some of the other translations. He's sarcastically talking about the apostles who snuck in and were deceiving them.

Apostles or "Super-Apostles?"

http://www.toddtyszka.com/newaposrest.html​

 

[Cheekygrin]

Well i have...and will say the same to all charismatics....youll have to experience the
Lord without the chaos first to see His power flows among us noncharismatics.

Luke 19:
36 As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road.37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
38 “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!”
“Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”
39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

As far as limiting God. Ha thats just funny....

Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

 

[Cheekygrin]

Renoir

Stunning. Thank you

 

[Abiding]

I read a lot of accusation. But not much peace or building up in love.
Proverbs 10:19 - When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise.

I have not heard the message of "Reclaiming the 7 Mountains" before. However, destroying the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) and seeking to build God's Kingdom (Matthew 6:33) in these areas seems like a great idea to me. Much better than separating ourselves (Hebrews10:39) and barricading ourselves off from the world with walls of lifeless religious doctrine (Mark 12:24, 2 Timothy 3:5). We are supposed to let our light shine for all men to see, so that they may see our good works and praise our Father in Heaven (Matthew 5:16).


This really deserves another entire forum topic post Abiding. But I'd be happy to teach you what I know about this privately assuming you were serious in your question and not just being snarky towards notIbutChrist


(Christ's words referenced in red just 'cos I think He's so cool)

thanks for the offer Cheekygrin....been through the Apostle subject quit a bit the past few months.
No actually i was calling him out to provide his evidence for saying a sister of mine is led by devils
and if he is taking a biblical stand on that in referance to this thread....then let him answer to his own
statements, or go shoot his arrows elsewhere.