The Faith We Hold.

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

"FAITH AND GOOD WORKS"

"There is no problem of "faith and good works" in the spirituality of the

Church. The relationship between faith and good works becomes a

"problem" only when justification is understood as an outward legal

process between God and man. In that case people either fear that

good deeds will come between the soul and Christ or, on the contrary,

they regard deeds as merits in the eyes of God. In the Orthodox view

deeds are not an end in themselves for the doer, but are more like a

saving instrument in the transformation of man's corrupted nature into

a "new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17). Therefore Christ's gospel command-

ments are not law but grace and mercy. They are like medicine given

for our use, without which we cannot get well. Let us think of any

virtue recommended to us in the Gospel: humility for instance. How

else could we grow in humility except by really humbling ourselves in

practice? A prayer from Psalm 119 is often repeated in church

services: "Blessed art Thou, O Lord; teach me Thy statutes!"

"Because of man's corrupted nature, he has no other way of showing

gratitude and love towards Christ than by trying to fulfill in his life the

commandments which Christ has given, which work towards his own

salvation. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (Jn. 14:

15)". [page 24: THE FAITH WE HOLD. Archbishop Paul of Finland.

Translated by Marita Nykanen and Esther Williams. Crestwood, NY:

St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1999.].

God save us in Christ's mercy: Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Grandpa]

I hope that some of my words have helped people come to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus. I hope that something that I have done or said has made a difference in someone elses life.

When you recieve a priceless gift it is pretty hard to pay it back. You feel an obligation but pretty much all you can do is give praise to the One who gave it to you.

Thank You Jesus.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Faith in what I ask?
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.1st john5


Faith=The Book of Hebrews, Chapter 11

 

[Forest]

"FAITH AND GOOD WORKS"

"There is no problem of "faith and good works" in the spirituality of the

Church. The relationship between faith and good works becomes a

"problem" only when justification is understood as an outward legal

process between God and man. In that case people either fear that

good deeds will come between the soul and Christ or, on the contrary,

they regard deeds as merits in the eyes of God. In the Orthodox view

deeds are not an end in themselves for the doer, but are more like a

saving instrument in the transformation of man's corrupted nature into

a "new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17). Therefore Christ's gospel command-

ments are not law but grace and mercy. They are like medicine given

for our use, without which we cannot get well. Let us think of any

virtue recommended to us in the Gospel: humility for instance. How

else could we grow in humility except by really humbling ourselves in

practice? A prayer from Psalm 119 is often repeated in church

services: "Blessed art Thou, O Lord; teach me Thy statutes!"

"Because of man's corrupted nature, he has no other way of showing

gratitude and love towards Christ than by trying to fulfill in his life the

commandments which Christ has given, which work towards his own

salvation. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (Jn. 14:

15)". [page 24: THE FAITH WE HOLD. Archbishop Paul of Finland.

Translated by Marita Nykanen and Esther Williams. Crestwood, NY:

St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1999.].

God save us in Christ's mercy: Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Eternal justification only comes through Christ's faith, Gal 2:16. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness of our own, Eph 2:2-3. The natural man will not seek spiritual things because they are foolishness unto him, 1 Cor 2:14. We cannot change from natural to spiritual without the intervention of God, Eph 2:5. The natural man will not look to spiritual things, as God's commandments, to fulfill his life.

 

[Forest]

Faith in what I ask?
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.1st john5


Faith=The Book of Hebrews, Chapter 11

Our faith can save us from many things in this world, but our faith cannot save us etenally.

 

[shroom2]

Eternal justification only comes through Christ's faith, Gal 2:16. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness of our own, Eph 2:2-3. The natural man will not seek spiritual things because they are foolishness unto him, 1 Cor 2:14. We cannot change from natural to spiritual without the intervention of God, Eph 2:5. The natural man will not look to spiritual things, as God's commandments, to fulfill his life.

The natural man can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. God wants all men to be saved, every single one. Sadly, not all will choose to believe.

 

[shroom2]

Our faith can save us from many things in this world, but our faith cannot save us etenally.

Our believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is precisely what allows us to be saved.

Rom 10:9

 

[Grandpa]

The natural man can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. God wants all men to be saved, every single one. Sadly, not all will choose to believe.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to the words of Jesus, Forest is correct. Natural man does not choose to believe in Jesus Christ unless he has been drawn by God to begin with. Your belief, faith and choosing all come from God. All good things come from God.

 

[shroom2]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to the words of Jesus, Forest is correct. Natural man does not choose to believe in Jesus Christ unless he has been drawn by God to begin with. Your belief, faith and choosing all come from God. All good things come from God.

God is drawing every man. His will is for all men to be saved, not willing that any should perish. God created man in His image, part of which is the ability to think, reason, express emotion, make decisions. You have control of your life. God gave it to you.

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Forest]

God is drawing every man. His will is for all men to be saved, not willing that any should perish. God created man in His image, part of which is the ability to think, reason, express emotion, make decisions. You have control of your life. God gave it to you.

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God calls only his elect and he calls all of them and they are predestinated, called, justified and glorified,Rom 8:30.

 

[SantoSubito]

Y'all would understand OOC's post much better if you knew the difference between Imputed vs Infused (Theosis) righteousness. In Catholic and Orthodox theology salvation is not an event where God declares a man just, rather it is a process by which God makes the faithful after the image of Christ by "infusing" (rather than imputing) grace and righteousness into the faithful. Thus at the end of this process the faithful are saved.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Faith in what I ask?
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.1st john5


Faith=The Book of Hebrews, Chapter 11

Dear Wisdomseeker: Faith in God the Reality of what is said in the

Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 AD

without the Filioque. See: Wikipedia for more information, please.

Thank you. In Erie Scott R. Harrington

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do people buy into this lie of faith plus works?

They use big words and things which sound good to try to propogate their false Gospel which will do nothing but lead people to hell.

They go around and call the Gospel "Gods commands" When God has given many commands. The law being one of them. If following Gods commands is Gospel. then not only do we have to follow the commands given by God to the church, But his commands given in the law. Thus the only way we could possibly be saved in this way is NEVER to break any of these commands (be perfect) The problem is no one has done this but Christ. Thus he, and only he, could make the sacrifice necessary to grant us eternal life.

The penalty of sin is death. If you lie, Your penalty is death, the only way to be "redeemed" from this sin is to either suffer death yourself. Or have someone pay that debt in your place. Going to church, Being baptized, Taking the eucharist. Making penance, all these things will never remove the penalty of that sin, which God says is death (separation from him)

so why are people insistant on adding works to grace, and twisting it to show we must earn salvation. When no man could ever earn salvation, because no matter how much work he does, he would never make up for the penalty imposed on Him "DEATH"

we are either alive in Christ. or we are dead to him. No amount of work will ever make us alive in Christ.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Our faith can save us from many things in this world, but our faith cannot save us etenally.

What is your faith?

 

[Forest]

Why do people buy into this lie of faith plus works?

They use big words and things which sound good to try to propogate their false Gospel which will do nothing but lead people to hell.

They go around and call the Gospel "Gods commands" When God has given many commands. The law being one of them. If following Gods commands is Gospel. then not only do we have to follow the commands given by God to the church, But his commands given in the law. Thus the only way we could possibly be saved in this way is NEVER to break any of these commands (be perfect) The problem is no one has done this but Christ. Thus he, and only he, could make the sacrifice necessary to grant us eternal life.

The penalty of sin is death. If you lie, Your penalty is death, the only way to be "redeemed" from this sin is to either suffer death yourself. Or have someone pay that debt in your place. Going to church, Being baptized, Taking the eucharist. Making penance, all these things will never remove the penalty of that sin, which God says is death (separation from him)

so why are people insistant on adding works to grace, and twisting it to show we must earn salvation. When no man could ever earn salvation, because no matter how much work he does, he would never make up for the penalty imposed on Him "DEATH"

we are either alive in Christ. or we are dead to him. No amount of work will ever make us alive in Christ.

I'll Amen that!

 

[Forest]

What is your faith?

Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit and we must be born of the Spirit before we have access to spiritual faith Gal 5. The natural man does not have spiritual faith because he has not the Spirit and will not seek after God, 1 Cor 2:14. We are not justified eternally by our faith, but only by Christ's faith, Gal 2:16.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Spirit and we must be born of the Spirit before we have access to spiritual faith Gal 5. The natural man does not have spiritual faith because he has not the Spirit and will not seek after God, 1 Cor 2:14. We are not justified eternally by our faith, but only by Christ's faith, Gal 2:16.

Not to be rude my friend. This makes no sense. We can not be saved by our faith (our trust in God) we can only be saved by Gods faith (His trust in us) ??

 

[lil_christian]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to the words of Jesus, Forest is correct. Natural man does not choose to believe in Jesus Christ unless he has been drawn by God to begin with. Your belief, faith and choosing all come from God. All good things come from God.

John 6:41- 58

Words to the Jews

41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”



I really don't think that has ANYTHING to do with predestination. This has to do with the Jews grumbling.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Why do people buy into this lie of faith plus works?

They use big words and things which sound good to try to propogate their false Gospel which will do nothing but lead people to hell.

They go around and call the Gospel "Gods commands" When God has given many commands. The law being one of them. If following Gods commands is Gospel. then not only do we have to follow the commands given by God to the church, But his commands given in the law. Thus the only way we could possibly be saved in this way is NEVER to break any of these commands (be perfect) The problem is no one has done this but Christ. Thus he, and only he, could make the sacrifice necessary to grant us eternal life.

The penalty of sin is death. If you lie, Your penalty is death, the only way to be "redeemed" from this sin is to either suffer death yourself. Or have someone pay that debt in your place. Going to church, Being baptized, Taking the eucharist. Making penance, all these things will never remove the penalty of that sin, which God says is death (separation from him)

so why are people insistant on adding works to grace, and twisting it to show we must earn salvation. When no man could ever earn salvation, because no matter how much work he does, he would never make up for the penalty imposed on Him "DEATH"

we are either alive in Christ. or we are dead to him. No amount of work will ever make us alive in Christ.

Faith without works does not justify (James 2:24), because love is greater than faith (1 Cor. 13:13). When Christ talked to St. Peter in the end of the Gospel of St. John, Christ asked St. Peter, "Lovest thou Me?" He did not ask St. Peter "Believest thou upon Me?"
If faith is all that is required of St. Peter, why did Christ ask St. Peter if he loved Him?
And Christ then required works of St. Peter, saying, "Feed My sheep".
Of course, Christ asked St. Peter this question 3 times because St. Peter denied Christ 3 times.
Without works, we are dead to Christ. Faith without works is dead, and can not save (James 2).
No faith without works will ever make us alive in Christ.
We cannot earn salvation by our works: but we cannot have true faith without any works.
Good works.

 

[Forest]

Not to be rude my friend. This makes no sense. We can not be saved by our faith (our trust in God) we can only be saved by Gods faith (His trust in us) ??

Not to be rude, but isn't that what I just said?