XMAS, GOOD OR EVIL?

[TheGrungeDiva]

There was a family of messianic jews in my church. They taught us some interesting things, There teachings were scripturaly sound. As for Christmas..it is not biblical..it is a man made tradition

Excuse me, but Jesus' birth is absolutely Biblical.

Sure, there are a lot of traditions that some people, non-Christians and some probably well-meaning but misguided Christians, celebrate that are not Biblical. For example:

Tree with colored lights -- Pagan tradition
Mary giving birth in a cattle shed, because there was no room at the inn -- Biblical (Luke 2)
Magical fat man in red suit who rides a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer and slides down your chimney to give presents to good boys and girls all over the world on Christmas Eve -- Pagan
St. Nicholas, a martyr who lived in the 3rd century, who loved children and gave them gifts for no reason but that he loved them -- Historically accurate, as far as we can tell.
Shepherds visited Jesus at his birth -- Biblical
Three wise men visited Jesus at his birth -- mixture. The Bible speaks of wise men (Matthew 2). It doesn't say how many there were. We assume 3, because there are 3 gifts. There might have been 4, there might have been 2. (It's plural, so all we know is it's more than 1.) There might have been 100 (though that's a bit silly). It's also pretty clear from the context that this happened some time after the birth narrative -- Jesus may have been about 2 at the time, though it doesn't say with any specificity, we do know it was some time after Jesus was born.

So there are certain aspects of a "traditional Christmas" that are man-made, but to say that "Christmas" is not Biblical is flat-out wrong. Read your Bible, Matthew and Luke, and you'll see that the story of Jesus' birth is right there. Why should we not celebrate with the Angels, "Glory to God in the highest!"

 

[Avinu]

GrungeDiva, dude didn't say Yeshua's birth wasn't Biblical, He said, xmas wasn't Biblical which it isn't. It is a pagan holiday that goes all the way back to Nimrod.

 

[Dude653]

Yes the birth of Christ is biblical..however we are not biblicaly instructed to celebrate the birthday of Christ

 

[SantoSubito]

Yes the birth of Christ is biblical..however we are not biblicaly instructed to celebrate the birthday of Christ

But why wouldn't you celebrate the birth of God incarnate in the flesh?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

GrungeDiva, dude didn't say Yeshua's birth wasn't Biblical, He said, xmas wasn't Biblical which it isn't. It is a pagan holiday that goes all the way back to Nimrod.

it would be nice if people actually bothered researching the history of ancient religions...instead of just repeating the 'everything goes back to nimrod' nonsense...

the truth is that there is no firsthand historical information whatsoever about nimrod outside of the bible...we know nothing about his religion or his descendants...

any attempt at making a historical connection between nimrod and any known pagan religion is either guesswork or fabrication...

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

GrungeDiva, dude didn't say Yeshua's birth wasn't Biblical, He said, xmas wasn't Biblical which it isn't. It is a pagan holiday that goes all the way back to Nimrod.

Christmas is not pagan. Winter Solstice is pagan. Brumalia, Yule, Wren Day, Saturnalia, and probably thousands of other names that various cultures celebrate or have celebrated around the time of the shortest day / longest night of the year, those are all pagan. Christmas is the Mass, or sacred feast, of our Lord Christ. Nothing which celebrates Christ can be pagan. To say Christmas is pagan is to say that Christ is pagan. That sounds like blasphemy to me. I would not want to be standing close to you when you say that.

Christmas is not a pagan holiday. Yes, many (perhaps too many, I agree) of the traditions which are celebrated today and labeled as "Christmas" are pagan in origin. But the mass itself -- the celebration of Christ's birth -- that is not pagan.

But why wouldn't you celebrate the birth of God incarnate in the flesh?

Exactly!!! Even those extreme liberal Christians who say the whole Bible is a myth, and Jesus never really lived recognize that Jesus' birth is something worth celebrating. Those scrooges among you ought to be ashamed that some atheists get the spirit of Jesus better than you do!

it would be nice if people actually bothered researching the history of ancient religions...instead of just repeating the 'everything goes back to nimrod' nonsense...

the truth is that there is no firsthand historical information whatsoever about nimrod outside of the bible...we know nothing about his religion or his descendants...

any attempt at making a historical connection between nimrod and any known pagan religion is either guesswork or fabrication...

But it's so much easier to label something evil and be done with it than to study or look something up, or actually do any WORK.... {/sarcasm}

 

[Avinu]

it would be nice if people actually bothered researching the history of ancient religions...instead of just repeating the 'everything goes back to nimrod' nonsense...

the truth is that there is no firsthand historical information whatsoever about nimrod outside of the bible...we know nothing about his religion or his descendants...

any attempt at making a historical connection between nimrod and any known pagan religion is either guesswork or fabrication...
__________________

Rachel, again, your ignorance is amazing. You just go on any post and spout out what ever comes to your mind. I've been teaching and researching pagan celebrations such as xmas and easter for yrs. and their IS documented history about them, going all the way back to Nimrod and his wife and everything else. I have to wonder if it bothers you at all to make such foolish claims and sound so uneducated as you do. Because so far from everything you've wrote, it tells me that you don't know anything. Again, you really need to learn before you speak, or this case type.

 

[Avinu]

Christmas is not pagan. Winter Solstice is pagan. Brumalia, Yule, Wren Day, Saturnalia, and probably thousands of other names that various cultures celebrate or have celebrated around the time of the shortest day / longest night of the year, those are all pagan. Christmas is the Mass, or sacred feast, of our Lord Christ. Nothing which celebrates Christ can be pagan. To say Christmas is pagan is to say that Christ is pagan. That sounds like blasphemy to me. I would not want to be standing close to you when you say that.

GrungeDiva, I'll tell you the same as Rachel, unless you do some research and actually learn something, I highly recommend you stop making yourself look so foolish. Get some education and then come talk to me. Because you clearly don't have a clue about any of this stuff.

 

[Avinu]

If YHVH wanted us to celebrate Yeshua's birthday, then He would have given us the exact date of His birth. But we do know the day and hour of His death, which Yeshua commanded us along with Torah to celebrate. It's called Pesach/Passover, along with His resurrection, which is called First Fruits.
Now is it wrong to celebrate His birth, I don't think so at all. But He wasn't born in Dec., He was born in the fall as scripture proves out.

Luke 2:8 talks about the shepards in the fields with their flock at night, when Yeshua was born. Well if anyone knows how the shepards work in Israel as I know, since that is my country. Then they would know that they bring there flocks and herds in from the mntns. and fields for the winter by Oct. 15 @ the latest. Therefore Yeshua had to be born at the latest Oct. 15th.
So as I said, if you want to celebrate Yeshua's birth, then do it when at the time He was actually born which is around Sukkot, (Feast of Tabernacles) which happens to be called the Feast of Celebration. Hmmmm, that's interesting.

 

[Avinu]

Yes the birth of Christ is biblical..however we are not biblicaly instructed to celebrate the birthday of Christ

Amen dude, one of few who actually pays attention to what the Bible says.

 

[AnandaHya]

well if you consider the Talmud and the dead sea scrolls as good "research" material then you may have a point.

but then I would

"highly recommend you stop making yourself look so foolish. Get some education and then come talk to" us about Christmas and how praising God and sing hymns during mass or a church service dedicated to the remembrance of the birth of Jesus is a bad thing.

What is the origin of the word Christmas Avinu?

Its not too hard "Christ's Mass"

wow that sounds real pagan.

yeah Channukah is so much more Christ like and Jesus focused isn't it?

 

[AnandaHya]

If YHVH wanted us to celebrate Yeshua's birthday, then He would have given us the exact date of His birth. But we do know the day and hour of His death, which Yeshua commanded us along with Torah to celebrate. It's called Pesach/Passover, along with His resurrection, which is called First Fruits.
Now is it wrong to celebrate His birth, I don't think so at all. But He wasn't born in Dec., He was born in the fall as scripture proves out.

Luke 2:8 talks about the shepards in the fields with their flock at night, when Yeshua was born. Well if anyone knows how the shepards work in Israel as I know, since that is my country. Then they would know that they bring there flocks and herds in from the mntns. and fields for the winter by Oct. 15 @ the latest. Therefore Yeshua had to be born at the latest Oct. 15th.
So as I said, if you want to celebrate Yeshua's birth, then do it when at the time He was actually born which is around Sukkot, (Feast of Tabernacles) which happens to be called the Feast of Celebration. Hmmmm, that's interesting.

If you actually paid attention, Christmas is to celebrate when Mary got the message from the angel that she would bear the Messiah in her womb.

you know the whole nine months pregnancy thing... hmmm lets do some math what month would that be?

 

[Avinu]

well if you consider the Talmud and the dead sea scrolls as good "research" material then you may have a point.

I'm sorry, when did I ever say anything about the talmud? Now you're adding to what I say?

What is the origin of the word Christmas Avinu?

Its not too hard "Christ's Mass"

wow that sounds real pagan.

yeah Channukah is so much more Christ like and Jesus focused isn't it?
__________________

It's clear you're stuck on the name, as though that means something. You can polish a terd and call it a diamond if you want, but it's still just a piece of crap.
As for Chanukkah, I was only sharing about it's history, so me one place where I said to keep it. But at least Chanukkah is in the Bible, and Yeshua was their. John 10:22. So get a clue.

If you actually paid attention, Christmas is to celebrate when Mary got the message from the angel that she would bear the Messiah in her womb.

you know the whole nine months pregnancy thing... hmmm lets do some math what month would that be?

You're funny, I'll give you that. Hmmm, wrong again. Do you study for yourself at all, or are you another follower of men and just listen to what sounds good to you.

It shows in scripture that Elizabeth conceived John the baptist in the summer, and when she was 6 months along, Mary came to her and John leaped in Elizabeths tummy for Mary was with child. Yes that is around winter, That is still not when He was born. So which story are you going with, she conceived in winter or He was born then, you can't have it both ways.
And by the way, when a woman from conception to birth has a normal pregnancy, it is actually closer to 10 months. You should know that being a woman. I know that watching all my kids be born.

 

[AnandaHya]

wow you are good at misunderstanding people eh....

summer like June maybe? Elizabeth conceives.. lets count... one: july two august three september four oct five november six december...wow maybe this is when the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary..... ok .... that would place Jesus birth around Sept or Oct.

What's the issue?

you assume that I said Jesus was born in December which I didn't I said that it was in celebration of His birth but the timing is closer to when the angel appeared to Mary and Jesus was conceived in the womb by the Holy Spirit NOT the physical birth but the spiritual one.

anyways Christmas is not a turd and does not need to be polished but your mouth might need some soap.

Guess what some of the traditions of Christmas are in the Bible too. the giving of gifts is in remembrance of the wise men who traveled to see Jesus. many of the hymns do the same.

what is the purpose of any festival Avinu?

Most are memorials to teach the children about God and His commandments and what He has done. Christmas should be no different though the world has tried to corrupt its purpose.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

But at least Chanukkah is in the Bible, and Yeshua was their. John 10:22. So get a clue.

Lord have mercy.

First of all, it's spelled "there," not "their."

Secondly, John 10:22 refers to the feast of dedication, not the festival of light. A few bad translations have it translated as Hanukkah (the NIV being one such bad translation -- they are just plain WRONG), but any reputable Bible will translate it as the feast of dedication, which has nothing to do with Hanukkah, the celebration of the victory of the Maccabees.

Thirdly, Yeshua is his Hebrew name. Here in Christian Chat we're supposed to speak English, so we call him Jesus. Just as German-speaking people call him "Jesu" (pronounced "Yezu"), or Spanish speaking people spell it the same as we do but pronounce it "Hey-ZOOS" .... You're really not impressing anyone by referring to his Hebrew name.

Finally, whether you call him Jesus or Yeshua or Joshua, he was neither at the original Hannukah nor at the original Feast of the Dedication (except in the form of God as the 2nd person of the Trinity, of course). He was, however, at his own birth, so it appears that it is you who needs to get a clue.

You have a lot of nerve insulting Rachel, Ananda, and me, when you don't have the slightest grasp of basic Biblical scholarship.

 

[Abiding]

GrungeDiva, dude didn't say Yeshua's birth wasn't Biblical, He said, xmas wasn't Biblical which it isn't. It is a pagan holiday that goes all the way back to Nimrod.

Wake up Avina...There was No Christmas back in babal. If you dont like Christmas ...fine....why spoil it
for everyone? We were called to reach the world. And in the great commision we have made some traditions.
Why do you not know everyone is aware of the pagan/Christian facts of Christian traditions? If there was any
worship or oblation to anything evil or demonic id agree with you. But it has become one of the best times of
the year for many. And you should cut back on your name calling also....your losing credibility.

 

[Abiding]

Rachel, again, your ignorance is amazing. You just go on any post and spout out what ever comes to your mind. I've been teaching and researching pagan celebrations such as xmas and easter for yrs. and their IS documented history about them, going all the way back to Nimrod and his wife and everything else. I have to wonder if it bothers you at all to make such foolish claims and sound so uneducated as you do. Because so far from everything you've wrote, it tells me that you don't know anything. Again, you really need to learn before you speak, or this case type.

Avina i believe your way too arrogant to teach the ignorant.


ar·ro·gant   [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
2.
characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.a certain person who holds the esteem that they are better than you; haughty;

 

[dscherck]

Rachel, again, your ignorance is amazing. You just go on any post and spout out what ever comes to your mind. I've been teaching and researching pagan celebrations such as xmas and easter for yrs. and their IS documented history about them, going all the way back to Nimrod and his wife and everything else. I have to wonder if it bothers you at all to make such foolish claims and sound so uneducated as you do. Because so far from everything you've wrote, it tells me that you don't know anything. Again, you really need to learn before you speak, or this case type.

Really? There's documented history about Nimrod and his wife? Let me guess, it's from someone named Hislop right? Or maybe someone else at Chick publications?

 

[owyka]

Hello Avinu
First i must ask you how did you know that God is not happy with easter and xmas? The bible says what your heart conderm you to do, do not do it. I don,t celebrate xmas but during this period the focus is mainly to God and share vrotherly love. The initial purpose was over ride. in my contry on that day we go to church not because of xmas but to make people know that when celebrating christ we should be consious and the most important thing is our salvation. the bible say do not judge God knowth the heart of every man and their purpose during these period PEACE

 

[Avinu]

GrungeDiva

Secondly, John 10:22 refers to the feast of dedication, not the festival of light. A few bad translations have it translated as Hanukkah (the NIV being one such bad translation -- they are just plain WRONG), but any reputable Bible will translate it as the feast of dedication, which has nothing to do with Hanukkah, the celebration of the victory of the Maccabees. The feast of dedication is Chanukkah, It's also called the feast of the Maccabees and the feast of lights. They are all the same feast.

Thirdly, Yeshua is his Hebrew name. Here in Christian Chat we're supposed to speak English, so we call him Jesus. Just as German-speaking people call him "Jesu" (pronounced "Yezu"), or Spanish speaking people spell it the same as we do but pronounce it "Hey-ZOOS" .... You're really not impressing anyone by referring to his Hebrew name. If you've noticed on my writings, the least of my concerns is to impress anyone. Yeshua is His real name, period. Jesus is not His name or any other name. It is Yeshua, that is His name period. You want to call Him Jesus go ahead. I will call Him by His real name.

Finally, whether you call him Jesus or Yeshua or Joshua, he was neither at the original Hannukah nor at the original Feast of the Dedication (except in the form of God as the 2nd person of the Trinity, of course). He was, however, at his own birth, so it appears that it is you who needs to get a clue.

You have a lot of nerve insulting Rachel, Ananda, and me, when you don't have the slightest grasp of basic Biblical scholarship.

Insulting you would be rude, saying you're ignorant because you speak of things you clearly have no knowledge of is just speaking the truth. I actually read what the Bible says, not go by what man teaches. You can go ahead and keep listening to people who twist scripture around and believe there lies, I'll stick with following YHVH's Word.