XMAS, GOOD OR EVIL?
- Thread starter Avinu
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A
Get a grip...Christians are going to celebrate Christmas...yes it was built over a pagan
celebration of which God is not challenged by. You may be. But now your stretching
this thing all out of scope. Its about Jesus birth now. Not anything evil. If your looking
for pagans...its the folk who are warring against Christmas. Trying to rid the world of
the name, the manger scenes. And any other reference to Christ. Yes those are the Pagans.
Do you really feel your cause is just?
celebration of which God is not challenged by. You may be. But now your stretching
this thing all out of scope. Its about Jesus birth now. Not anything evil. If your looking
for pagans...its the folk who are warring against Christmas. Trying to rid the world of
the name, the manger scenes. And any other reference to Christ. Yes those are the Pagans.
Do you really feel your cause is just?
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A
actually Abiding calling people ignorant is kind of like calling them a fool or stupid.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Avinu you have yet to give a single verse of scripture that proves that Christians should keep the Jewish feasts and forbids gathering together for a mass honoring Jesus Christ.
Ignorance is cured by Knowledge and wisdom. neither of which you have provided. Just some ad hominem attacks and irrational assertions based on straw men arguments.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Avinu you have yet to give a single verse of scripture that proves that Christians should keep the Jewish feasts and forbids gathering together for a mass honoring Jesus Christ.
Ignorance is cured by Knowledge and wisdom. neither of which you have provided. Just some ad hominem attacks and irrational assertions based on straw men arguments.
A
Yes Christians do keep the feasts as Jesus taught but I have a feeling that its not as Avinu would have us keep them.
Like the Feast of Passover is fulfilled by keeping communion in remembrance of Jesus sacrifice on the Cross. The Feast of Tabernacle is about being a holy Temple for the Holy Spirit and not living in a tent but living in the wilderness of the world as a living sacrifice. The Feast of Trumpets is the great commission to tell the world of Jesus Christ and His salvation, etc.
However I wonder what Avinu believes about the feasts and how Jesus commands His disciples to keep them.
Like the Feast of Passover is fulfilled by keeping communion in remembrance of Jesus sacrifice on the Cross. The Feast of Tabernacle is about being a holy Temple for the Holy Spirit and not living in a tent but living in the wilderness of the world as a living sacrifice. The Feast of Trumpets is the great commission to tell the world of Jesus Christ and His salvation, etc.
However I wonder what Avinu believes about the feasts and how Jesus commands His disciples to keep them.
E
Your missing the point.
Yes modern day babylon started Christmas and Easter to mix pagan ritual with Christian belief. But that does not make them evil if done the right way.
many people only come to church on those two holidays, the start of many wonderfull Christian lives have been because of those two. Should we hold thme iup as being from god? NO. Should we call people evil who celebrate them the right way? NO. No religious ceremony (jewish or Christian) has ever saved anyone, so why argue over them? It is nonsense!
Yes modern day babylon started Christmas and Easter to mix pagan ritual with Christian belief. But that does not make them evil if done the right way.
many people only come to church on those two holidays, the start of many wonderfull Christian lives have been because of those two. Should we hold thme iup as being from god? NO. Should we call people evil who celebrate them the right way? NO. No religious ceremony (jewish or Christian) has ever saved anyone, so why argue over them? It is nonsense!
Whoa, thank you Abiding for clearing this all up for me! What was I thinking, how dare I stand on the word of YHVH. I should listen to blasphemers like you and spit in YHVH's face and keep a pagan feast and tell God His feasts mean nothing anymore. Yes, I see it all clearly now, you have all the answers and wisdom, and God and His word are wrong. Ok, I feel better now.
EG, if the church kept the feasts like they were suppose to, then there would be 7 TIMES A YEAR, that more people would start their lives with Yeshua. There is no right way to celebrate xmas, What part of "Don't do as the gentile nations do" does anyone not understand, apparently all of it.
Agreed, no religious ceremony has ever saved anyone, so why keep xmas and easter, their nonsense!!!
Agreed, no religious ceremony has ever saved anyone, so why keep xmas and easter, their nonsense!!!
A
No, it is not a pagan feast. Its now probably appropriate for you to mention my blaspheme. Then give scriptures
that you are standing on. And then tell which parts of the pagan feast we keep for any gods and not to the Lord.
The most important part of this would be for you to show how your standing for the word of God.
To say you see i "have all the answers and wisdom, and God and His word are wrong" Avina why cant you see
that since i didnt say that not even close to it...makes that a lie and a smear, and at best very impolite?
Actually i see you being against a few statutes biblically. Both in your treatment and language to fellow
forum folk...and also in the thread itself. To inform people(as if its something unknown) of history is fine,
your sentiments towards the facts are fine also. Your rude reactions to peoples posts tho are certianly
out of line and rude.
So show your scriptures regarding these issues since you club those without scriptures with their comments.
that you are standing on. And then tell which parts of the pagan feast we keep for any gods and not to the Lord.
The most important part of this would be for you to show how your standing for the word of God.
To say you see i "have all the answers and wisdom, and God and His word are wrong" Avina why cant you see
that since i didnt say that not even close to it...makes that a lie and a smear, and at best very impolite?
Actually i see you being against a few statutes biblically. Both in your treatment and language to fellow
forum folk...and also in the thread itself. To inform people(as if its something unknown) of history is fine,
your sentiments towards the facts are fine also. Your rude reactions to peoples posts tho are certianly
out of line and rude.
So show your scriptures regarding these issues since you club those without scriptures with their comments.
Abiding here are some of the scriptures,
When the truth of xmas was brought to my attention, I researched it, then went to YHVH and asked Him what do I do about this? He directed me to His Word, first Jeremiah 10:1-4 then Jer. 16:19, Ez. 44:23, Ez. 22:26, Job 14:4 is a clear one. Deut. 12:30-32, and there's many more.
When the truth of xmas was brought to my attention, I researched it, then went to YHVH and asked Him what do I do about this? He directed me to His Word, first Jeremiah 10:1-4 then Jer. 16:19, Ez. 44:23, Ez. 22:26, Job 14:4 is a clear one. Deut. 12:30-32, and there's many more.
A
<sigh> this should be interesting....
Jeremiah 10
1 Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2 Thus says the LORD:
“ Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
Jeremiah 16:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You
From the ends of the earth and say,
“ Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”
Ezekiel 44:23
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
Ezekiel 22:26
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Job 14:4
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
No one!
Deuteronomy 12:30-32
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ 31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
32 “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
so who wants to tackle the eisegesis?
Jeremiah 10
1 Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2 Thus says the LORD:
“ Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
Jeremiah 16:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You
From the ends of the earth and say,
“ Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”
Ezekiel 44:23
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
Ezekiel 22:26
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Job 14:4
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
No one!
Deuteronomy 12:30-32
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ 31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
32 “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
so who wants to tackle the eisegesis?
A
Jeremiah 16:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You
From the ends of the earth and say,
“ Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”
that could just as easily apply to the man made traditions of the Sabbath and Jewish festivals that you have been taught Avinu. that Jesus refuted in the NT.
Example:
Matthew 12:10
And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.
A
Ezekiel 44:23
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
Ezekiel 22:26
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
yes it would be wise to read Jesus words concerning what makes one clean and unclean...
Matthew 23:26-28
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
A
Job 14:4
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
No one!
no one but GOD.
have you forgotten these verses?
Isaiah 1
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.
16 “ Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;[a]
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.
18 “ Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“ Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;
20 But if you refuse and rebel,
You shall be devoured by the sword”;
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
No one!
no one but GOD.
have you forgotten these verses?
Isaiah 1
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.
16 “ Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;[a]
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.
18 “ Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“ Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;
20 But if you refuse and rebel,
You shall be devoured by the sword”;
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.