the antichrist

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M

midwestbob

Guest
I have got.


(1) son

(2) man man

(2) king king

(3) himself himself himself

(3) prince prince prince


(7) him him him him him him him

(9) his his his his his his his his his

(20)he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he

47 tells saying its a man an antichrist. what have you got saying its not a man but it is islam or something else ?


Parallel. Israel a woman yes the bride of Christ


Parallel. Babylon the harlot, what better way to describe her than a harlot a her.

Talking about me twisting scriptures, you want to twist 47 tells saying it’s a "HE" "HIS" "HIM" "HIMSELF" "PRINCE ""KING" "MAN" and you want to twist 47 tells into Islam or something else? your funny.
 
 
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the SON of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth HIMSELF above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that HE as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing HIMSELF that HE is God.
Daniel 8:23-25 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a KING of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And HIS power shall be mighty, but not by HIS own power: and HE shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
And through HIS policy also he shall cause craft (fraud, deceit, treachery) to prosper in HIS hand; and HE shall magnify HIMSELF in HIS heart, and by peace shall destroy many: HE shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but HE shall be broken without hand."
Daniel 7:20-21 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Daniel 7:24-27 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten KINGS that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and HE shall be diverse from the first, and HE shall subdue three kings.
And HE shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into HIS hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away HIS dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations HE shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Revelation 13:3-18 And I saw one of HIS heads as it were wounded to death; and HIS deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with HIM?
And there was given unto HIM a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto HIM to continue forty and two months.
And HE opened HIS mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto HIM to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given HIM over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship HIM, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and HE had two horns like a lamb, and HE spake as a dragon.
And HE exerciseth all the power of the first beast before HIM, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And HE doeth great wonders, so that HE maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which HE had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And HE had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (666)

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the PRINCE of this world be cast out.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the PRINCE of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
None of the verses in Rev13 call the beast of Rev13:2 a man, king or prince. While you may believe those verses from Daniel and 2Th are referencing the beast of Rev13:2 you have yet to prove they are. As I have demonstrated multiple times your he/him/ his argument is inconclusive and at best only gives one a reason to assume, not proof. Scripture tells us to build precept upon precept, line upon line, not assumption upon assumption. Arguing ad nauseam will not change that. It will only prove to be an exercise in futility.

It all goes back to those questions.
Do you believe the Word was God?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Do you believe God is unchanging?
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Does God’s unchanging word tell us a beast is a kingdom?
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom.....
yes but not the beast of Rv13
You can’t have it both ways. You can‘t believe God/Word when it suits your doctrine but disregard it when it doesn’t. After all either God/Word is unchanging or it isn’t. Believe what you will. As I said your argument isn’t with my interpretation of what a beast is but whether or not God/Word changes. Scripture tells us God/Word is unchanging, believe as you choose, you have free will. Just be careful that by doing so you don’t do as Christ warned against in Mark7:13. After all considering that not all doctrines concerning eschatology agree we know that some have to be falling into that trap. Each of us has to decide what to believe. I believe God/Word is unchanging so a beast is a kingdom if you choose to believe God/Word changed between Daniel and Rev, so be it. Believe as you choose.
 
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peterT

Guest
None of the verses in Rev13 call the beast of Rev13:2 a man, king or prince. While you may believe those verses from Daniel and 2Th are referencing the beast of Rev13:2 you have yet to prove they are. As I have demonstrated multiple times your he/him/ his argument is inconclusive and at best only gives one a reason to assume, not proof. Scripture tells us to build precept upon precept, line upon line, not assumption upon assumption. Arguing ad nauseam will not change that. It will only prove to be an exercise in futility.
It’s not me that is giving assumption upon assumption, it’s you.

It’s not me twisting scriptures, for I copied and pasted them straight from the bible.

It’s not me who wants to change the words “he” “him” ‘his’ ‘himself’ ‘man’ (to Islam).

For it is you twisting scriptures and adding words to prophecy .


And there was given unto ((Islam) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto (Islam) to continue forty and two months.
And (Islam) )opened (Islam) mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto (Islam) )to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given (Islam) )over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship (Islam) whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and (Islam) had two horns like a lamb, and HE spake as a dragon.
And (Islam) exerciseth all the power of the first beast before (Islam) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And (Islam) doeth great wonders, so that (Islam) maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which (Islam) had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And (Islam) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And (Islam) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a (Islam) and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (666(Islam)


Correct me if I am wrong but this is what you seem to be saying.


It’s not me twisting scriptures, for I copied and pasted them straight from the bible on my post.
 
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midwestbob

Guest
It’s not me that is giving assumption upon assumption, it’s you.
Really lets have a look:
I believe the Word was God.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
I believe God is unchanging.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
I believe God/Word tells us beasts are kingdoms and history proves it.
The Scripture,
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth…
The history,
Daniel’s leopard beast was Greece, the bear was Medo-Persia, and the lion was Babylon.
Precept upon precept, line upon line we can see that the word is God and unchanging. If God/Word is unchanging then in the prophetic verses beasts are kingdoms regardless of whether they are in Daniel or Rev. If they aren’t then God/Word changes.

yes but not the beast of Rv13
God/Word is unchanging and says a beast is a kingdom yet you change the definition based on an assumption that says because the beast of Rev13:2 is referred to as he/him/ his it must be a man. As demonstrated by that standard of proof both Israel and Babylon are women.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
So clearly your reasoning proves to be nothing more then a reason to assume. Then you repackaged your argument by adding the words man king prince from verses in Daniel you believe are speaking about the beast. Unfortunately before you can make this attempt to repackage your argument you must first prove those verses are speaking about the beast of Rev13:2 You have provided no such proof. Do you have anything besides assumption? Can you show where God/Word changed?



It’s not me twisting scriptures, for I copied and pasted them straight from the bible.
Just as I cut and pasted the verses straight from the bible. That only proves you know how to cut and paste not that your interpretation is correct. Nor does it prove your belief that all the verses you quote are speaking about the beast of Rev13:2

It’s not me who wants to change the words “he” “him” ‘his’ ‘himself’ ‘man’ (to Islam).

For starters this statement is a fallacy, your continued misrepresetation of what I said grows wearisome. I do not want to change the words he, him himself man to islam. While it is true that I believe the he, him, his in Rev13 are referring to kingdoms when speaking of the two different beasts in Rev. Only the ones in Rev 13:1 –13:10 and Rev13:16-18 are speaking of the beast/ kingdom (aka the spiritual kingdom of islam). I have never said the 2nd beast referred to represents the spiritual kingdom of islam. Nor have I said that I believe the persons referred to as man, king, prince, himself from the verses you reference in Daniel and 2Th are Islam. I don’t believe the verses you reference from Daniel or 2Th are speaking about the beast from Rev13:2 so why would you misrepresent what I said and falsely state I am trying to say those words should be changed to islam?

For it is you twisting scriptures and adding words to prophecy .
You’re false accusation and continued attempts to misrepresent what I have said grows wearisome. What words have I added to prophecy?


And there was given unto
((Islam)a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto (Islam)to continue forty and two months.
And (Islam))opened (Islam) mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto (Islam))to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given (Islam))over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship (Islam)whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and (Islam)had two horns like a lamb, and HE spake as a dragon.
And (Islam)exerciseth all the power of the first beast before (Islam)and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
And (Islam)doeth great wonders, so that (Islam)maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which (Islam)had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And (Islam)had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And (Islam)causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a (Islam)and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (666(Islam)


Correct me if I am wrong but this is what you seem to be saying.
You are wrong as demonstrated above. To reply again would be nothing more then rehashing the points already covered above in this post. No sense arguing ad nauseam.

It’s not me twisting scriptures, for I copied and pasted them straight from the bible on my post
It’s not your ability to copy and paste that is a problem, but your interpretation of those verses I disagree with.

I realize that you have taken it personally and have been offended because I cast doubt on the doctrine you espouse. No harm was intended and I am sorry you took it that way. Regardless of our feelings the truth still stands that Gods unchanging words tell us beasts are kingdoms. Why don’t you put down your axe, turn off your grinder and take a little time to gain an understanding of other views before blindly attacking based on misconceptions from false assumptions about what others believe. Considering the volume of Scripture that goes into building our eschatological views it would be hard to explain it in a few posts but if one is interested they can read about it http://www.beholdthebeast.com/contents_tfp.htm ][/b][size=14HERE[/size[/b]

At least if you took the time to gain an understanding of the view (regardless whether you agree or not) we could carry on an intelligent conversation based on the validity of the subject rather this wearisome arguing ad nauseam as a result of your misconceptions and misrepresentations of the view.
 
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peterT

Guest
“because I cast doubt on the doctrine you espouse”
How/ where?
Don’t worry I haven’t taken this personally and you haven’t offended me.
Ps119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them
“You are wrong as demonstrated above”.
Thanks for correcting me, so it’s just these verses below that you think is talking about Islam?

Rev 13:1 –13:10 and Rev13:16-18 are speaking of the beast/ kingdom (aka the spiritual kingdom of islam).
Dose it go something like this?

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a (spiritual kingdom of islam) rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

16 And (spiritual kingdom of islam) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. (spiritual kingdom of islam)

Is that correct now midwestbob?


What about these verses, they are talking about the beast as will?

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

What about these verses they are talking about the beast as will?
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
402
2
0
Judaism is far more antichrist than islam is cause there is no similar comparison in the world to the talmud and the kabbalah in blaspheming Jesus Christ than in the doctrine of the jews!! The koran is by far not that evil than judaism is. Korans fails in accepting Jesus Christ as God though but adoring him as a prophet from God.So the driving force behind the islamophobia propaganda in our western media comes from jewish organisations and their stooges.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
Uh, either you're for Christ or you aren't. There isn't a "one is worse than the other."
 
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peterT

Guest
Uh, either you're for Christ or you aren't. There isn't a "one is worse than the other."
I think that too.

Unbelief is unbelief

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Judaism is far more antichrist than islam is cause there is no similar comparison in the world to the talmud and the kabbalah in blaspheming Jesus Christ than in the doctrine of the jews!! The koran is by far not that evil than judaism is. Korans fails in accepting Jesus Christ as God though but adoring him as a prophet from God.So the driving force behind the islamophobia propaganda in our western media comes from jewish organisations and their stooges.
there are no clear references to jesus christ in the talmud...pretty much all of the supposed blasphemies can be shown not to refer to jesus christ at all...

also most jews do not study kabbalah...they are not supposed to...so it is not honest to attack judaism on the basis of kabbalah...

islam on the other hand denies that jesus is the son of God...and claims that he did not die on the cross...both of which are direct attacks on christianity...
 
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peterT

Guest
blessed and remember Mark7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Neither God or His word changed between Daniel and Rev yet you only believe God's unchanging word part of the time.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Does God’s unchanging word tell us a beast is a kingdom?

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom.....

Neither God or His word changed between Daniel and Rev yet you only believe God's unchanging word part of the time.

YES it dose. Or is Gods unchanging written word not good enough for you, as you said in your own words.

YES. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

YES. in Daniel 7:23 the beast is known as a kingdom.

But in Rv13 the beast is known as a ‘him’ ‘he’ ‘his’

And in Rv 17 the seven headed dragon the beast, had seven kings

YES. blessed and remember Mark7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

To take away the antichrist and in its place put Islam, sounds like you are taking away from the word of God and adding to the word of God.

Rv22;19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
 
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Nalu

Guest
there is nothing in the bible that makes any connection between the antichrist and worship on sunday...

this is just something the seventh day adventist church fabricated...

and actually 'sabbath keeping' movements throughout history have had more anti christian tendencies than probably any other movement...
I strongly agree.
 
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Abiding

Guest
there are no clear references to jesus christ in the talmud...pretty much all of the supposed blasphemies can be shown not to refer to jesus christ at all...

also most jews do not study kabbalah...they are not supposed to...so it is not honest to attack judaism on the basis of kabbalah...

islam on the other hand denies that jesus is the son of God...and claims that he did not die on the cross...both of which are direct attacks on christianity...
Rachel, wondered where you heard most jews dont study kabbbalah. From every source ive seen
From jerusalem to america it is taught everywhere and is more than ever on the rise. My sources
are just jewish sites.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Rachel, wondered where you heard most jews dont study kabbbalah. From every source ive seen
From jerusalem to america it is taught everywhere and is more than ever on the rise. My sources
are just jewish sites.
just because it is widely available does not mean it is widely studied by jews...it is really only a small minority that studies kabbalah in any capacity...mainly hasidic jews...the majority of jews aren't very interested in it...

Historically, not all Jewish people have considered the study of Kabbalah a worthwhile endeavor. When Hasidic Judaism was born in the eighteenth century in Eastern Europe, a revival of mysticism occurred and Jews studied the texts of Kabbalah with renewed vigor. There was, however, a large negative reaction to Hasidic thought. Rabbis and students called the mitnagdim (Hebrew for "those who are opposed") led this counter-movement and opposed the mystical practices of the Hasidic rabbis, including that of immersing themselves in Kabbalistic mysticism.
Thus, Orthodox Jews from a "mitnaged" background, many "modern Orthodox" Jews, and the overwhelming majority of Conservative, Reformed, Reconstructionist, humanistic, and Messianic Jewish adherents do not place a high value on the study of Kabbalah. The late conservative rabbi and Jewish Theological Seminary professor, Dr. Saul Lieberman, remarked that he did not want his students to study Kabbalistic texts (however, he did permit the study of such texts simply for their historical value). He declared, "It is forbidden to have a course in nonsense." Large segments of the Jewish population today also consider Kabbalah to be mystical "nonsense."
Today's Jewish world places more emphasis on the study of the Bible and the Talmud (which contains the Mishna, a commentary on the written Torah; and the Gemara, a commentary on the Mishna), as well as commentaries on the Bible and the Talmud from noted rabbis.
Kabbalah in Traditional Jewish Practice

another point that needs to be made is that many modern kabbalists aren't even jewish...they are just dabblers in mysticism in general...
 
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midwestbob

Guest
Does God’s unchanging word tell us a beast is a kingdom?

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom.....

Neither God or His word changed between Daniel and Rev yet you only believe God's unchanging word part of the time
YES it dose. Or is Gods unchanging written word not good enough for you, as you said in your own words.
YES. in Daniel 7:23 the beast is known as a kingdom.
But in Rv13 the beast is known as a ‘him’ ‘he’ ‘his’
By your definition the beasts in Daniel are kingdoms and at least one of the two different beasts in Rev13 is “the Antichrist” So we have at least 2 definitions for the same word according to your view, correct? Or do we have 3 after all you still haven’t told us how you define the other beast in Rev . or do you believe there is only one in Rev13? So how many definitions do you have to use for beasts? Your view is starting to sound confusing
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

So you believe God/Word changes? Based on what? Your “he/him/his” argument? Which at best is nothing more then inconclusive argument as demonstrated many times. Using your standard of proof both the kingdom of Babylon and Israel or women. We both know that isn’t true so your proof is at best inconclusive and in reality only an unproven assumption.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put HER away, and given HER a bill of divorce; yet HER treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense HER according to HER work; according to all that SHE hath done, do unto HER: for SHE hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.

You can’t have it both ways, friend either God/Word is unchanging or the verses below are lying. Precept upon precept, line upon line.
Joh 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever
I think Scripture speaks for itself on the subject of whether God’s word changes or not. Until we can come to an agreement on that continuing will just prove to be an exercise in futility. As you are led, friend as you are led.
 
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midwestbob

Guest
In regard to Jews and the issue of the spirit of antichrist, Jews do believe in the Son. Some haven't yet recognized that Jesus is their Messiah. Romans 11 warns Christians not to be wise in our conceits regarding Jewish blindness, since God Himself gave some of them the "spirit of slumber". That being said, a secular or atheist Jew will likely share the same fate as any other non-believer. Additionally, any Jew that has had this blindness removed, and has come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, should seek his salvation through Jesus Christ.
Here are a few related scriptures:


Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.


Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.


Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.


Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.


Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.


One thing is for sure. Nobody can know the judgments of God. We Christians need to keep that in mind when we witness to others.


Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Is the spirit of slumber (eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) the same as the spirit of antichrist? One is not allowed to see, one is allowed but still denies, are they the same?
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
Jesuits/Masons rule the world, and worship lucifer. The vatican is full of freemasons, the world elite are all freemasons, the Pope is a freemason. They all believe lucifer is God, and that they are gods, and that Jesus and the Father are devils. This is the anti-christ system, run by the spirit of anti christ himself - Lucifer. The NWO/One World Government is nearly formed, and the religion of all of the leaders of NATO, the UN and the global elite all serve the same master. Cathoicism and Islam are front religions controlled by the same satan worshippers, and serve the anti christ agenda. World domination, extermination of Christians, and rebellion against Yahweh and His Christ - Yeshua. Pretty plain and straight forward really. The little Horn power emerged from the Roman Empire centuries ago, causing 3 kingdoms to fall. The papacy fulfills all of the requirements. It was reinstituted and given political power again (Recovered from fatal would) and behind the scenes the pope is being setup to be the head of all of this. The Pope believes that He is higher than God and His word on this earth, and is the "Vicar" of God. He is another Christ. The greek for for "Anti" means another, not against. Its all therer in history people.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
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there are no clear references to jesus christ in the talmud...pretty much all of the supposed blasphemies can be shown not to refer to jesus christ at all...

also most jews do not study kabbalah...they are not supposed to...so it is not honest to attack judaism on the basis of kabbalah...

islam on the other hand denies that jesus is the son of God...and claims that he did not die on the cross...both of which are direct attacks on christianity...
Baloney, please stop tap dancing twisting around from an issue you either has no knowledge or you intentionally spreading disinformation.Do you think we are just silly antisemites by citing their own sources? I can show you overwhelming evidence just by citing their blasphemous rabbis and scribes.I tend to believe that you already know it that it is all true but you are ignorant and have to hypnotize people with your double speak.
I recommend that you read Michael Hoffman's book "Judaism Discovered". Besides that many jews are atheists or nihilists adhereing to the talmud the zohar and the kabbalah and those "books" are pure acid malice and a perpetual menace against Christians and non jews.But they depict it the other way around as if they had been the all time victims or are under a permanent threat of annihilation.They are liars and will drive the nations in another world war just for them as they did in ww1 and ww2 if they gang.

Talmud, Kabbalah, Toldoth, and The Shem Tov


In this document, I will discuss some of the writings of traditional Judaism that intentionally denigrate, as well as openly blaspheme the finished work of Jesus Christ. I feel the need to do this evaluation, because many of these texts are now being quoted by television evangelists such as Perry Stone, Steve Monsey, Benny Hinn and others. They are also used in the works of Christian book authors such as Grant Jeffreys, who appeared on the Benny Hinn show, as well as by some Pastors in their teachings to the people in their congregations. Some of the texts that I will discuss are the Talmud, the Toldoth Yeshu, the writings of the Jewish mystical system known as Kabbalah, as well as the Shem Tov book of Mathew, which is part of the Jewish writing titled Even Bohan.
The Talmud speaks negatively of Jesus in various books that comprise its writings. The Talmud is a rabbinic commentary on the Torah, which Christians know as the first five books of the Old Testament. Recently, some in Judaism have tried to state that the Talmud is speaking of another person(s) named Jesus, and not Jesus Christ, but conervative rabbi’s such as Daniel Lapin have clearly stated that the Talmud does in fact denigrate Jesus. Here is a quote by Mr Lapin that can be found on his website:
“Do we really want to open up the Pandora’s Box of suggesting that any faith may demand the removal of material that it finds offensive from the doctrines of any other faith? Do we really want to return to those dark times when Catholic authorities attempted to strip from the Talmud those passages that they found offensive? Some of my Jewish readers may feel squeamish about my alluding to the existence of Talmudic passages uncomplimentary toward Jesus as well as descriptive of Jewish involvement in his crucifixion. However the truth is that anyone with Internet access can easily locate those passages in about ten seconds. I think it far better that in the name of genuine Jewish-Christian friendship in America, we allow all faiths their own beliefs even if we find those beliefs troubling or at odds with our own beliefs. This way we can all prosper safely under the constitutional protection of the United States of America.
http://www.towardtradition.org/article_Mel_Gibson.htm
In the Talmud, great measures are taken so that Jesus is never referred to by His actual Hebrew name of Yeshua, because His name itself means He is Salvation, and is a description of His finished work. Jesus is referred by many othe names and titles such as Otho Iysh, which is translated in the English version as “that man”. In Abhodah Zarah, 6a, it is stated that “He is called a Christian who follows the false teachings of that man, who taught them to celebrate the feast on the first day of the Sabbath, that is, to worship on the first day after the Sabbath”.
Jesus is also referred to as Peloni , which is translated as “A Certain One.” In Chagigah, 4b, we read:
“Mary…the mother of a certain one, of whom it is related in Schabbath…” (104b)
Jesus is also referred to as Naggar bar naggar – “the carpenter son of a carpenter”, also Ben charsch etaim – “the son of a wood worker.”
He is also called Talui – “The one who was hanged.” and him who was hanged, as well as “the one who was hanged on his banner.”
Below are some Talmudic passages that denigrate Christ:
Sanhedrin, 67a ~ Jesus is referred to as the illegitimate son of Pandira, a Roman soldier.
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore
Sanhedrin 106 ~ Revels in the early age at which Jesus died
Sanhedrin 43a ~ Says Jesus (”Yeshu” / Yeshu “the Nazarene”) was executed because he practiced sorcery.
Gittin 57a ~ States that Jesus is being boiled in “hot excrement.”
Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: “On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?”
Abhodah Zarah II ~ Also referred to as the son of Pandira, a Roman soldier.
Schabbath XIV~ Again referred to as the son of Pandira, the Roman.
Schabbath, 104b ~ Called a fool and no one pays attention to fools.
Sanhedrin, 103a. ~ Suggested corrupts his morals and dishonors self.
Sanhedrin, 107b. ~ Seduced, corrupted and destroyed Israel.
Abhodah Zarah, 21a — Reference to worship of Jesusin homes unwanted.
Orach Chaiim, 113 — Avoid appearance of paying respect to Jesus.
Iore dea, 150,2 — Do not appear to pay respect to Jesus by accident.
Abhodah Zarah (78c) — Festivals of followers of Jesus regarded as idolatry.
Kallah, 1b. (18b) ~ Illegitimate son and conceived during menstruation.
Sanhedrin, 67a ~ Hanged on the eve of Passover.
Sanhedrin, 43a ~ On the eve of Passover they hanged Jesus.
Sanhedrin 90a ~Those who read the New Testament will have no portion in the world to come.
Shabbath 116a (p. 569) ~Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.
Rosh Hashanah 17a ~ Christians (”minim”) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
Sanhedrin 105ab ~ “Jesus fornicated with his jackass.
Gittin 57a ~ Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen. Christians are boiled in dung.
Talmudic passages are also used as the basis for the writing titled Toledot Yeshu, which translated means The Geneaology of Yeshu. This writing reports a distorted view of who Jesus was, with many blasphemous statements directed towards Him, claiming that he was the rebellious illegitimate son of a Roman soldier (Pantera) born of unclean conception or niddah, who practiced witchcraft by speaking the sacred or ineffefable name of God who tried to lead Israel astray. In this writing, it is also stated that he set up a brick and worshipped it, and that he was hung, which denies the blood atonement, and His finished work on the cross. The actual Biblical name for Jesus in Hebrew is spelled Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin which is Yeshua (H3442~H3443), a shortened form of Yehoshua (H3091). Yeshua means He is salvation or He saves. By shortening the name to Yeshu, they effectively deny His work of redemption. In order to get the name Yeshu, the ayin is dropped from His Biblical Hebrew name. All Hebrew letters represent something in Judaism. As an example, the lettter represents the hand. The letter ayin in the Hebrew language, is known to be representative of the eyes. Here is an excerpt from the Toldoth Yeshu:
Miriam gave birth to a son and named him Yehoshua, after her brother. This name later deteriorated to Yeshu.
The above quote from the Toldoth Yeshu tells us that His name deteriorated to Yeshu. Deteriorated is a term that obviously does not have a positive connotation. It should be noted that informed believers object to the name Yeshu, because they understand it as a rabbinically modified form of the name Yeshua, and In some versions of the Toledot Yeshu, the name “YeSHU” is used as an acronym for “Yemach Shemo U’zikhro” which translated means “May his name and memory be blotted out”. Yemach comes from the root word Machah (H4229) meaning to blot, Shemo from the root word shem (H8034) which means name or reputation, and zikhro from the root word zayker (H2143), which means a memorial or remembrance. This statement is spoken in the form of a curse, because to erase the name and memory of a person is to erase all knowledge of their being. It should also be noted, that this phrase, or a shortened version is often used in Jewish writings when the name of a despised individual (Hitler, Amalek, Hayman, etc) has been mentioned. This could be a possible allusion to Psalms 109:13-15, where king David curses the enemies of Israel:
13 let his posterity be cut off; let their name be blotted out (yimach shemam) in the following generation;
14 let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered to YHWH; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out;
15 let them be always before YHWH, so that He may cut off the memory of them from the earth; (v’yak’rat ma’erets zikram)
It could also be fashioned after the Biblical curses found in the Torah, that were placed on the enemies of Israel, such as Exodus 17:14 and Deuteronomy 25:19. In Exodus we find “machoh emche et zeykher Amaleq mitachat hashamayim” translated as “I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven”. Amalek is also cursed in Deuteronomy 25:19 as well.

>>Part2 Shem Tov Matthew
 

ada

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Aug 25, 2011
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Part2 Shem Tov Matthew

In the Shem Tov Matthew, in many places the name of Jesus is also written in the Hebrew as Yeshu. The Shem Tov Matthew is a theologically altered middle ages manuscript (1390 ce), which was copied from a Latin text that originated from the Greek making it a third generation altered copy at best. This anti-Christian version of the book of Matthew was included in the writing titled “Even Bohan” which translates as “The Touchstone.” The Shem Tov Matthew has modified passages in some chapters that use Talmudic references, as well as some references from the Toldoth Yeshu.
This document was authored by Shem Tov, who resided in Spain during the fourteenth century. He was an anti-Christian Jewish writer, who wrote this in an attempt to stop the Jewish people from accepting Christianity as their faith. The Shem Tov Matthew has anti-Christian polemical commentary written by him throughout the document. There are a handfull of Shem Tov manuscripts available, but many of them are not in agreement with each other. Before his death, Shem Tov attempted to also translate a theologically altered version of the book of Mark, as he had done with Matthew, but the work was never completed.
In an excerpted article from the Jewish Encyclopedia quoted below, this was stated about Shem Tov, the author of Even Bohan, which includes the Shem Tov Matthew:
“…As a Talmudic scholar he carried on a correspondence with Sheshet. At Tarazona he completed his “Eben Bohan” (May, 1380 or 1385), a polemical work against baptized Jews…”
[IBN SHAPRUT (SHAFRUT, By : Richard Gottheil ; Meyer Kayserling
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=43&letter=I&search=shem%20tov%2",,-1,0,,,,]
From the American Academy for Jewish Research (AAJR) of Brandeis Hebrew University, a well recognized school of traditional Jewish learning, we find this dissertation by student Joshua Levy.Mr. Levy is a doctoral candidate in the department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New York University, studying medieval Jewish history. His dissertation, titled “Sefer Milhamot Hashem, Chapter Eleven: The Earliest Jewish Critique of the New Testament”, is an examination of medieval Jewish criticisms of the Gospel of Matthew:
“This study will begin with a critical edition of one chapter of an early and important medieval Hebrew polemical text, chapter eleven of Jacob ben Reuben’s Sefer Milhamot Hashem. The critical edition will be accompanied by a translation and commentary. Additionally, the dissertation will examine subsequent Jewish and Christian reactions to this pathbreaking text. Written by Jacob ben Reuben, a Jew living in southern France in the late twelfth century, Sefer Milhamot Hashem is one of the earliest extant Jewish polemical texts. Sefer Milhamot Hashem, as a whole, presents Christian, biblically-based arguments for the truth of Christianity and the subsequent Jewish counterarguments. Chapter eleven strikes at the heart of Christianity: it is a Jewish critique of the Gospel of Matthew. My work on this chapter will lead to an examination of the influence that this chapter had on later authors. Shem Tov ibn Shaprut, a Spanish Jewish author of the late fourteenth century, used the criticisms of Jacob ben Reuben in his own translation of the Gospel of Matthew; I will examine his translation to see how Jacob’s attacks were adopted and modified. Nicholas de Lyra, a Franciscan friar of the early fourteenth century, was the first Christian to write a refutation to Jacob’s criticisms. I will use his refutation to understand how the Church responded to Jewish attacks.” [http://www.brandeis.edu/ajs/dissertations.php?id=28]
Some other articles by Joshua Levy can be found here:
The Crusades - My Jewish Learning
As we can see from the article quoted above, Jacob ben Reuben was a Jewish rabbi who lived in Spain, who wrote polemical writings against Christianity during the twelveth century. He wrote a book titled the Sefer Milhamot Adonai or Book of the Wars of the Lord as a response to attacks by the convert Petrus Alphonsi. This book was comprised of twelve chapters. In it was refutations of the Christian arguments demonstrating Jesus as the promised Messiah of the TaNaKh (Old Testament), coupled with a written criticism of the Gospels as well as the book of Acts, in which he attempted to point out what he viewed as contradictions within the Book. This was the main foundation that Shem Tov built his own writings on. We can clearly see some of these theological alterations implemented by Shem Tov Ibn Shaprut, by simply comparing passages from the Shem Tov Matthew against any of the standard translations:
These passages fail to identify Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Annointed one who was predicted in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT).
Mat 1:1 “…the generation of Jesus Christ…”
Shem Tov “…the generations of Jesus…” [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
Mat 1:18 “…now the birth of Jesus Christ…”
Shem Tov “…birth of Jesus…” [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
In these passages His ability to forgive the sin of His people is eliminated, which denies His Deity:
Mat 1:21 “…thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins”
Shem Tov “…you will call his name Jesus because he will save my people from their sins.”
Mat 9:2 ” And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.”
Shem Tov “9:2, “They brought to him one who was sick with contractions, that is, paralitico, lying upon his bed. Jesus saw their faith and said to the sick man: Have courage my son. It is by the faith of God that your sins have been forgiven.” [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
In this passage Jesus is made equal to the earthly scribes or sages.
Mat 7:29 “For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.”
Shem Tov “because he was preaching to them with great power, not as the rest of the sages“
The part of this passage which stresses His Deity is eliminated:
Mat 28:20 – Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo ” I am with you always, even unto the end of the world ” Amen
Shem Tob – and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever.
In this passage the coming of a future Kingdom is eliminated
Mat 6:10 “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”
Shem Tov “may your kingdom be blessed; may your will be done in heaven and on earth”
In this passage the preaching of the gospel is eliminated.
Mat 11:5 “The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.”
Shem Tov “the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are revived and the poor are acquitted.”
In this passage the temple is exalted above Christ
Mat 12:6 “But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.”
Shem Tov “Truly I say to you that the temple is greater than this“
In this passage the behavior of the Pharisees is questioned, and not their false doctrine.
Mat 16:12 “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”
Shem Tov “beware of the behavior of the Pharisees and the Saducees…” [This does not have the verses broken up by number. There is a group of verses listed as 9-12 , with no verse 6, 7, or 8a.]
Mat 16:9-12 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Shem Tov 16:9-12, “Do you remember the five loaves and four thousand men how many seahs were left over? Therefore you should understand that I am not speaking of natural loaves but I am saying to you that you should (beware) of the behavior of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
In this passage Elijah becomes the savior.
Mat 17:11 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”
Shem Tov “11. He answered them and said: Indeed Elijah will come and will save all the world. 12 “I say to you, he has already come, they did not know him, and they did to him according to their desire. (So) they will do to the Son of Man. 13 “Then the disciples understood that regarding John the Baptizer he was saying this””
Mat 18:11 “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”
Shem Tov 18:11, “and the Son of Man has stopped saving the enemy.”
In these passages the Deity of Christ is eliminated.
Mat 19:28 “And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,…”
Shem Tov “Jesus said: Truly I say to you who follow me, in the day of judgement when man sits upon the throne of his glory you also will sit upon the twelve thrones of the twelve tribes of Israel.” [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
Mat 20:30 “…when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.”
Shem Tov “…It was said to them: The prophet Jesus from Nazareth is coming. Then they cried out saying: Son of David, have mercy on us.” [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
Mat 28:9 “.. Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.”
Shem Tov “As they were going Jesus passed before them saying: May the Name [HaShem} deliver you. They came near to him, bowed down to him, and worshipped him" [Jesus is written in the Hebrew text as Yeshu]
In this passage preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ becomes, “the Anti-Christ” and “abomination of desolation.”
Mat 24:14-16 “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: “
Shem Tov “And this gospel, that is, evungili, will be preached In all the earth for a witness concerning me to all the nations and then the end will come. This is the Anti-Christ and this is the abomination which desolates which was spoken of by Daniel [as] standing in the holy place. Let the one who reads understand. Then those who are in Juda, let them flee to the mountains.”
In the passages below, Jesus is hanged in accordance to what is written in Talmudic writings and the Toldoth Yeshu, instead of being crucified. This eliminates His blood atonement and His finished work on the cross. The same Hebrew word is used to describe the death by hanging of Judas Iscariot in reference to being hanged by a rope.
Shem Tov
Matt 26:2
Do you not know that after two days will be the Passover and the Son of Man will be delivered into the hand of the Jews for the gallows.
KJV
Matt 26:2
Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Shem Tov
Matt 27: 22,23
Pilate said to them: If so, what shall I do with Jesus who is called Messiah? All of them answered that he should be hung. Pilate said to them: What evil has he done? Then they vigorously cried out: let them hang him, let them hang him, let them hang him.
KJV
Matt 27:22,23
Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? [They] all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
Shem Tov
Matt 27:26
Then he released Barabbas (to them), and delivered to them Jesus for beating and affliction that they might hang him.
KJV
Matt 27:26
Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered [him] to be crucified.
Shem Tov
Matt 27:31
When they had mocked him (much), they stripped the robe from him, and dressed him in his own clothes, and gave orders to hang him.
As they were going out from the city, they met a man whose name was Simon the Canaanite. They compelled him to carry the gallows, that is, “The Cross”.
27:35
When they had placed him on the gallows they divided his garments by lot
27:38
Then two thieves were hung with him, one on his right and one on his left.
KJV
Matt 27:31,32
And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify [him].
And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.
35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
If Jesus were hung, He would have not been thirsty, because medical science has determined that it is impossible to drink or speak when one is being hung. This would then eliminate all of the words that are recorded in the Gospels that He spoke while on the cross, and He would have never been able to say “It is finished”. Also If He was hung, then there would have been no need for the soldier to pierce his side, because He would have been dead almost instantly, which would deny His suffering. This errant translation of these passages denies all of His finished work, and also denies the cross and His finished work, because there is no blood shed during hanging, hence no redemption.
Yeshu is currently the name that many people refer to Jesus as when speaking modern Hebrew in Israel.
I would admonish anyone who has been using any of the above writings that I have evaluated as a source of learning and wisdom, to turn away from them immediately. In the NT writings we are told that Christ and Belial have no fellowship, therefore we need to understand that it is impossible to learn about who Jesus is and what He has done, from those who have not only openly denied Him and His finished work on the cross, but also have intentionally and deliberately blasphemed Him.
 
S

systemdown101

Guest
just because it is widely available does not mean it is widely studied by jews...it is really only a small minority that studies kabbalah in any capacity...mainly hasidic jews...the majority of jews aren't very interested in it...

another point that needs to be made is that many modern kabbalists aren't even jewish...they are just dabblers in mysticism in general...
This is so very true. In fact, if it weren't for like likes of those Hollywood half-wits like Madonna, Paris Hilton, and Britney Spears, no one would even know what Kabbalah is, and those cebebrities are simply using it so that they can have some kind of veneer of religion without having to be religious. Heck, I doubt many of the self-styled kaballah followers even know how to read. Most Jews either don't really care about it, or if they do know, don't care FOR it, and I suspect the sites that say they do are probably either White-power or anti-semetic sites that have some kind of agenda. Then again, I've also long suspected that the posters who talk about Jews the most - don't actually personally know any. In fact, why do they not ask Avinu and Schwagga, two Messianic Jews on this very site who DO know just about everything Jewish?

Baloney, please stop tap dancing twisting around from an issue you either has no knowledge or you intentionally spreading disinformation.Do you think we are just silly antisemites by citing their own sources? I can show you overwhelming evidence just by citing their blasphemous rabbis and scribes.I tend to believe that you already know it that it is all true but you are ignorant and have to hypnotize people with your double speak.
Ada, is attacking the poster really necessary? You're supposed to debate the post, not the poster. I can deal with personal insults against me, but attacking Rachel, who is a beloved member of this community, is going over the line. I direct you to this:

On the other hand, we will step in if we see any of these.....

1. Blatant personal attacks. (This means actually attacking someone. It doesn't mean when someone fails to believe something you believe.)
2. Blatant false teachings against the essentials of our faith. (We'll allow some users for a time to discuss issues that are against the faith, but if time passes and they keep it up, they will be dealt with.)
And regarding point 2: You've flat-out said that Esther was a whore (when the Bible called her a virgin) and that Mordecai seduced the king (when the Bible says he stopped a plot against the king) that Abram pimped out his wife for profit (Genesis 12 says it was out of fear for his life) that he said Sarai was his daughter (He called her his sister) so we have at least four instances where you're saying things that are clearly anti-Biblical.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
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Tap dancing again around the truth not mention the talmud, kabbalah zohar filth against Jesus Christ
but zealously tribe defending and protecting that are your arguments systemdown101 never mention
any arguments. Ignoring the facts that judaism is for over 2000 years the stranglehold against mankind.
Esther a virgin? Oh really ? She has the blood of over 75000 innocent civilians on her hands and purim
by the way is nothing else than the annual manifestation of the blood lust of the jews.
 
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Shilo

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Aug 31, 2011
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From my understanding Kabbalah does have a Jesus figure

Metatron in Kabbalah is the Heavenly scribe, lesser YHVH, EL shaddai, Heavenly Priest, eternal, metator and Messanger.


Judaism is far more antichrist than islam is cause there is no similar comparison in the world to the talmud and the kabbalah in blaspheming Jesus Christ than in the doctrine of the jews!! The koran is by far not that evil than judaism is. Korans fails in accepting Jesus Christ as God though but adoring him as a prophet from God.So the driving force behind the islamophobia propaganda in our western media comes from jewish organisations and their stooges.