DEPRAVITY OF MAN

[tribesman]

Does it make sense that all of the people on this forum are in dissagrement of what the truth is and that none of them have been regenerated?...

People who believes in false gospels and live in sin are not regenerate. Got me? People who believes in false gospels and live in sin are not regenerate. Amen. This is what the Bible says. If you believe to the contrary then you are at least into error. Maybe worse. And there's nothing more to discuss.

 

[Forest]

Your belief that the destruction spoken of in Matt.7.13-14 deals with "elect" people who receives merely a "timely" destruction is very odd, mildly put. Maybe you mean the crowd in verses 21-23, those who never knew the Lord, are also the "elect"? Can you name any persons/groups who believed and taught this before your version of PBs came up on the scene? Who were they? Where are they found? *sighs*

Sounds like the same questions that the unbelieving Jews ask of Jesus.

 

[tribesman]

Sounds like the same questions that the unbelieving Jews ask of Jesus.

Again, totally off-topic and out of the blue. You have been warned.

 

[Forest]

Regenerates believes the gospel, where salvation is conditioned on the work of Christ alone. While unregenerates believes false gospels, such that say that salvation is conditioned on the work of the sinner, which is no gospel at all.

Gal.5:22 says that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, which must mean believing the truth. This fruit of the Spirit must of course include believing the gospel.where salvation is conditioned on the work of Christ alone. Obviously, only regenerated souls have any fruit of the Spirit. And any unregenerate soul has no fruit of the Spirit, rather he manifests works of the flesh.

Gal.5:20 says that one of the works of the flesh is heresies, which must mean believing lies. This work of the flesh must of course include believing a false gospel, where salvation is conditiioned on the work of the sinner. No such persons, that believe false gospels and manifest works of the flesh, can be regenerate. Let us agree with Paul's judgment that those who are ignorant of the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel, are unregenerate.

It is a truth that when one is regenerated they receive the Spirit, and none of the fruits of the Spirit says a belief of the truth of the gospel. even the fruit of faith does not mean they see and understand the truth of the gospel. Most regenerated persons that have the Spirit do not have a knowledge of the truth. Only a few.

 

[Forest]

Your belief that the destruction spoken of in Matt.7.13-14 deals with "elect" people who receives merely a "timely" destruction is very odd, mildly put. Maybe you mean the crowd in verses 21-23, those who never knew the Lord, are also the "elect"? Can you name any persons/groups who believed and taught this before your version of PBs came up on the scene? Who were they? Where are they found? *sighs*

This is the same doctrine that Christ and his apostles believed.

 

[tribesman]

This is the same doctrine that Christ and his apostles believed.

Some PBs claim that their belief and doctrine has been passed on through "succession" through the ages. Then who believed exactly the same things as those PBs in the AD 200s, 300s, 400s, 500s....the 1100s, 1200s, 1300s, 1400s... etc, up until today? Name all of the persons/people and groups (and the places where they were found) that believed and taught exactly the same things as the PBs do, passed on in succession from the days Christ established His church up until today. Give straight and relevant answers this time and don't sneak away from this question. Last chance.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Some PBs claim that their belief and doctrine has been passed on through "succession" through the ages. Then who believed exactly the same things as those PBs in the AD 200s, 300s, 400s, 500s....the 1100s, 1200s, 1300s, 1400s... etc, up until today? Name all of the persons/people and groups (and the places where they were found) that believed and taught exactly the same things as the PBs do, passed on in succession from the days Christ established His church up until today. Give straight and relevant answers this time and don't sneak away from this question. Last chance.

Quick question, as I am having trouble understanding what is being discussed.


What is PB an acronym for?

 

[tribesman]

Quick question, as I am having trouble understanding what is being discussed.

What is PB an acronym for?

Just do a browsing of this thread and the thread named "The error of eternal justification", found here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/35327-error-eternal-justification.html <- link

PB=Primitive baptists=hyper-calvinists. Search engines are your friend.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Just do a browsing of this thread and the thread named "The error of eternal justification", found here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/35327-error-eternal-justification.html <- link

PB=Primitive baptists=hyper-calvinists. Search engines are your friend.

I just read that other thread and came here to respond to my own question. I knew of Primitive Baptists, but didn't realize that is what you were referring to. (I did try to look up what PB could be an acronym for, and it was a nearly endless list)


Thank you though!

 

[tribesman]

Eternal justification advocates say that if faith and repentance is a fruit of regeneration, or justification, then this makes justification conditioned on faith and repentance. In the same manner they would say that since repentance and obedience are works of man, wherein he can boast, then for someone to live in disobedience is not indicative of being lost. They would have it that since salvation is "fully up to God", then for someone to say that living in disobedience is indicative of being lost would be to say that salvation is dependent on man's obedience. Welcome to the absurd and bizarre world of the eternal justification error!

 

[AnandaHya]

Eternal justification advocates say that if faith and repentance is a fruit of regeneration, or justification, then this makes justification conditioned on faith and repentance. In the same manner they would say that since repentance and obedience are works of man, wherein he can boast, then for someone to live in disobedience is not indicative of being lost. They would have it that since salvation is "fully up to God", then for someone to say that living in disobedience is indicative of being lost would be to say that salvation is dependent on man's obedience. Welcome to the absurd and bizarre world of the eternal justification error!

oh fun.....

so when do we get to jump off the roller coaster?

 

[tribesman]

We receive the imputed righteousness of Christ when we are quickened together with Christ by God Eph 2:5. When he writes his laws in our hearts and upon our minds.

So you agree then after all that justification occurs at regeneration? What means this righteousness that has been received here other than the same thing as being justified? Because being justified and being made righteous is the same thing. This happens at regeneration, which causes you to believe.

 

[Forest]

So you agree then after all that justification occurs at regeneration? What means this righteousness that has been received here other than the same thing as being justified? Because being justified and being made righteous is the same thing. This happens at regeneration, which causes you to believe.

I know that you don't like me to be repreticious but when we are regenerated we come into the posession of the Holy Spirit and faith is a fruit of that Spirit. As we hear the word our faith grows and eventually some of us come unto the knowledge that Christ accomplished our justification on the cross. Just because we come unto a knowledge of our justification does not void the fact that we were actually justified by Christ on the cross. It was applied on the cross, we were made just on the cross, we were secured in our justification on the cross. Our belief had nothing to do with the fact that we were justified on the cross. Believing makes us knowledgeable of our justification but believing does not justify us. No! I don't believe that we are justified in regeneration.

 

[tribesman]

I know that you don't like me to be repreticious....

You have not yet replied to my questions to you in post #186 in this thread.

That is my last chance given to you to prove you are not a spammer. No more side-tracking!

 

[Red33]

I know that you don't like me to be repreticious but when we are regenerated we come into the posession of the Holy Spirit and faith is a fruit of that Spirit. As we hear the word our faith grows and eventually some of us come unto the knowledge that Christ accomplished our justification on the cross. Just because we come unto a knowledge of our justification does not void the fact that we were actually justified by Christ on the cross. It was applied on the cross, we were made just on the cross, we were secured in our justification on the cross. Our belief had nothing to do with the fact that we were justified on the cross. Believing makes us knowledgeable of our justification but believing does not justify us. No! I don't believe that we are justified in regeneration.

Forest,

When was this man (the publican) justified? Remember, Jesus was speaking this before the cross.

Lk 18:10-14

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Does this point to the believer's justification or are you going to concoct some other explanation for what you believe?

 

[Forest]

Forest,

When was this man (the publican) justified? Remember, Jesus was speaking this before the cross.

Lk 18:10-14

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Titus 3:3-7

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Does this point to the believer's justification or are you going to concoct some other explanation for what you believe?

All scriptures must harmonise with each other before you can understand the truth. All salvation scriptures are not talking about eternal salvation, and all scriptures talking about justification are not talking about eternal justification. In Rom 4:2 it says that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac. We know that eternal salvation is not by the works of man, and all justifications are not eternal justifications. We are to rightly divide the scriptures to harmonise with each other.

 

[Forest]

Some PBs claim that their belief and doctrine has been passed on through "succession" through the ages. Then who believed exactly the same things as those PBs in the AD 200s, 300s, 400s, 500s....the 1100s, 1200s, 1300s, 1400s... etc, up until today? Name all of the persons/people and groups (and the places where they were found) that believed and taught exactly the same things as the PBs do, passed on in succession from the days Christ established His church up until today. Give straight and relevant answers this time and don't sneak away from this question. Last chance.

There are hundreds of doctrines taught in this world, but there is only one doctrine that Christ taught. The scriptures prove themselves and Christ's doctrine does not have contradicting scriptures, they all harmonise with each other. If all scriptures do not harmonise with your belief then you do not have the truth. You think that I conjure up strange explinations to make my beliefs harmonise, does your belief harmonise with all scriptures? Heb 11:25, Jesus said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Only a few there be that find the truth by the revealation of the Holy Spirit. Matt 7:14.

 

[tribesman]

There are hundreds of doctrines taught in this world, but there is only one doctrine that Christ taught. The scriptures prove themselves and Christ's doctrine does not have contradicting scriptures, they all harmonise with each other. If all scriptures do not harmonise with your belief then you do not have the truth. You think that I conjure up strange explinations to make my beliefs harmonise, does your belief harmonise with all scriptures? Heb 11:25, Jesus said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Only a few there be that find the truth by the revealation of the Holy Spirit. Matt 7:14.

As expected you did not answer my questions to you at all (of course you can't bring any evidence for said "succession", QED). Instead you keep spamming the same thing. This gives that I will put you on ignore and stop replying to your posts as you are not keeping in line with sound and rational netiquette, seeing you actually do not discuss at all, repeatedly spamming same thing over and over.

I warned you several times not to keep spamming, but true to form you do not mind the posts of others, just keep spamming the same thing in thread after thread, often by oneliners. If I am not mistaken, your posts do not comply with the rules of this forum. Now it will be up to the moderators to discern whether the things you promote, and the way you have communicated them, are appropriate or not. Have a nice day!

 

[Red33]

All scriptures must harmonise with each other before you can understand the truth. All salvation scriptures are not talking about eternal salvation, and all scriptures talking about justification are not talking about eternal justification. In Rom 4:2 it says that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac. We know that eternal salvation is not by the works of man, and all justifications are not eternal justifications. We are to rightly divide the scriptures to harmonise with each other.

I asked you a simple question about when the publican was justified and you were not honest in your answer. You do not have an honest heart nor are you honest about the scriptures. You ad to the what the scripture testify about justification by faith. This was an example that every believer can identify with and you come up with an explanation that it was not eternal justification that Christ was referring to with this publican. You have no idea the kind of justification that God gives sinners by faith through His mercy and grace. You use this dumb excuse to justify your own understanding by discrediting others of not harmonizing the scriptures. Justification is the greatest doctrine of our faith and never should we lead others astray with such a false understanding. You need to reconsider and examine yourself and see if you are grounded in the faith of the Son of God as you claim to be.

 

[AnandaHya]

Red

Have I told you how much I love and appreciate you today?

We don't always agree on everything but an understanding of "the justification that God gives sinners by faith through His mercy and grace" is key and wonderful Gospel News that everyone should be proclaiming

Anyway catch you on another thread