What happens to our souls when we die?

[Red33]

Are you intentionally avoiding some of the scriptural references and objective questions that surround your claims about the soul and body? If you believe that man should live by every word of God, then you need to consider every word that is spoken. You can't dismiss anyone by telling them that they do not understand the present topic of discussion.

Question: There can be no doubt that man is made of spirit, soul and body according to (1Thes 5:23). If at death the soul and body go into the grave as dead until the resurrection, what happens to the human spirit that is in man as the candle of the Lord (Prov 20:27)? Does the human spirit represent the person that has died and wait in heaven to be reunited with the soul and body at the resurrection? Remember what Stephen said being stoned to death in (Act 7:59), 'Lord Jesus receive my spirit'.

 

[shroom2]

Are you intentionally avoiding some of the scriptural references and objective questions that surround your claims about the soul and body? If you believe that man should live by every word of God, then you need to consider every word that is spoken. You can't dismiss anyone by telling them that they do not understand the present topic of discussion.

Who are you addressing? If it's to me, I posted my "you do not understand death" post from a tablet. I apologize for the brevity.

Yes. We need to live by every word of God. We all do. Here are some scripture regarding death:

Deut 31:16) And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers…

Job 7:21) …For now I shall lie in the earth; you will seek me, but I shall not be.

Psalm 6:5) For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

Psalm 30:9) What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?

Psalm 49:12) Man in his pomp will not remain; he is like the beasts that perish.

Psalm 115:17) The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

Ecc 9:
4) But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
6) Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.
10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

John 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Acts 2:
29) Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30) Being therefore a prophet…
31) he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
32) This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
34) For David did not ascend into the heavens…

Those verses plainly teach that dead people are dead. Dead people will be raised in the future at one of the upcoming resurrections.

Question: There can be no doubt that man is made of spirit, soul and body according to (1Thes 5:23). If at death the soul and body go into the grave as dead until the resurrection, what happens to the human spirit that is in man as the candle of the Lord (Prov 20:27)? Does the human spirit represent the person that has died and wait in heaven to be reunited with the soul and body at the resurrection? Remember what Stephen said being stoned to death in (Act 7:59), 'Lord Jesus receive my spirit'.

Both the words "soul" and "spirit" have many meanings in the bible, as they do in English. Soul can refer to that which gives life to the body (nephesh in Genesis), it can refer to people as a whole (psuche in Acts 27:37). The same is true for the word "spirit".

Stephen will be resurrected from death when Christ returns to gather the church.

 

[superdave5221]

You want that verse to say things it does not say. "though he may die, he shall live" is not saying part of him dies but part of him lives on. That's what you believe, so that's what you read into the verse.

John 11:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

People who believe on Christ will live again at the resurrection.

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

And once resurrected, they will never die.

49 While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," he said. "Don't bother the teacher any more." 50 Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed."51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child's father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep."53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, "My child, get up!"55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56 Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.

Her spirit returned. From where?

The text does not say the spirit became alive again, but that it returned.

And you have yet to answer how Jesus' soul could die on the cross, and yet Jesus is eternal.

 

[shroom2]

49 While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue ruler. "Your daughter is dead," he said. "Don't bother the teacher any more." 50 Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, "Don't be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed."51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child's father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing," Jesus said. "She is not dead but asleep."53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, "My child, get up!"55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56 Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.

Her spirit returned. From where?

The text does not say the spirit became alive again, but that it returned.

From death. Her life was returned to her. She was raised from the dead.

And you have yet to answer how Jesus' soul could die on the cross, and yet Jesus is eternal.

Jesus has eternal life now. He did not always have it. He is the Son of God born to Mary. He lived a sinless life, then gave his life as payment for the sins of the whole world. He was completely dead, else the price for sin has not been paid. Three days later, God, his Father, raised him from the dead to eternal life.

Do you believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead? That's what a Christian's salvation is based on. That and confessing him as your Lord (Rom 10:9).

 

[Laodicea]

From death. Her life was returned to her. She was raised from the dead.


Jesus has eternal life now. He did not always have it. He is the Son of God born to Mary. He lived a sinless life, then gave his life as payment for the sins of the whole world. He was completely dead, else the price for sin has not been paid. Three days later, God, his Father, raised him from the dead to eternal life.

Do you believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead? That's what a Christian's salvation is based on. That and confessing him as your Lord (Rom 10:9).

Jesus has always had eternal life
Isaiah 9:6
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Micah 5:2
(2) But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

[serpentslayer]

And you have yet to answer how Jesus' soul could die on the cross, and yet Jesus is eternal.

Jesus' soul did not die on the cross, nor could it, since the soul is eternal, but His flesh did. Jesus, His
Soul that is, went to Hell to preach the Gospel, which was His Atoning Death and emminent
Resurrection! (1Pt3:19, 4:6) And those who were awaiting His Coming (Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc,
and the faithful) who were all prisoners (captives) in the House of Lucifer, which is Hell (Is14:17,
Ps68:18), were taken up on High when Christ ascended into Heaven after His Resurrection (Born
Again) (Ep4:8).

For the souls of the damned, they will suffer eternal destruction in the Lake of Fire.

 

[shroom2]

Jesus' soul did not die on the cross,

Then our sins are not paid for.

"The wages of sin is death".

nor could it, since the soul is eternal,

That is a religious concept, and is not true. The soul is not eternal. Soul is simply that which gives life to the body.

but His flesh did.

Jesus Christ completely died on the cross. Three days later God, his Father, raised him from the dead.

Jesus, His Soul that is, went to Hell to preach the Gospel, which was His Atoning Death and emminent Resurrection! (1Pt3:19, 4:6) And those who were awaiting His Coming (Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, and the faithful) who were all prisoners (captives) in the House of Lucifer, which is Hell (Is14:17, Ps68:18), were taken up on High when Christ ascended into Heaven after His Resurrection (Born Again) (Ep4:8).

No, Jesus was dead for three days and three nights. Then after he was raised, he went and heralded to the demons being held captive that they failed in their mission to stop the Christ. Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, and the faithful are all still dead, awaiting the resurrection of the just, which will happen after armageddon, when Christ is setting up the millennial kingdom.

For the souls of the damned, they will suffer eternal destruction in the Lake of Fire.

Yes, people who do not believe will die the second death and be destroyed permanently.

 

[AnandaHya]

From death. Her life was returned to her. She was raised from the dead.


Jesus has eternal life now. He did not always have it. He is the Son of God born to Mary. He lived a sinless life, then gave his life as payment for the sins of the whole world. He was completely dead, else the price for sin has not been paid. Three days later, God, his Father, raised him from the dead to eternal life.

Do you believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead? That's what a Christian's salvation is based on. That and confessing him as your Lord (Rom 10:9).

and this is why its pointless to discuss certain things if the person you are discussing with does not believe that Jesus is God. or even that the Son of God is eternal. that Jesus is the WORD by whom and for whom all things were made.

no amount of scripture will convince such a one. only the conviction of the Holy Spirit concerning this Truth of God can change a heart that is harden to Him and His Words.

2 Peter 2 (New King James Version)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

no I can sit back and wait for someone to say how unloving I am to state that those who deny that Jesus is God Incarnate, denies Jesus, the Lord who bought them, and are false teachers.

 

[Red33]

No, Jesus was dead for three days and three nights. Then after he was raised, he went and heralded to the demons being held captive that they failed in their mission to stop the Christ. Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, and the faithful are all still dead, awaiting the resurrection of the just, which will happen after armageddon, when Christ is setting up the millennial kingdom.


Yes, people who do not believe will die the second death and be destroyed permanently.

You have not explained (Lk 16:20-31). The beggar Lazarus died and is in the bosom of Abraham being comforted and Abraham is being addressed by the rich man, who also died, and lifted up his eyes from hell being tormented in flames. According to you these individuals are suppose to be dead, both soul and body. So can you explain what is taking place here? Is Jesus making this up to illustrate something? If so, what is He illustrating? You can't avoid this passage of scripture because it's part of the whole counsel of God that we derive our understanding from. If you can't explain this in relationship to death and what happened to Abraham and others that died, then you have to reconsider your doctrine and examine it more carefully because it is very important to know the truth.

 

[shroom2]

and this is why its pointless to discuss certain things if the person you are discussing with does not believe that Jesus is God. or even that the Son of God is eternal. that Jesus is the WORD by whom and for whom all things were made.

no amount of scripture will convince such a one. only the conviction of the Holy Spirit concerning this Truth of God can change a heart that is harden to Him and His Words.

2 Peter 2 (New King James Version)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

no I can sit back and wait for someone to say how unloving I am to state that those who deny that Jesus is God Incarnate, denies Jesus, the Lord who bought them, and are false teachers.

I surely do not deny Jesus Christ. Without him, none of us could be saved.

God bless you, Ananda. I'm sure you believe you're doing the right thing.

 

[shroom2]

You have not explained (Lk 16:20-31). The beggar Lazarus died and is in the bosom of Abraham being comforted and Abraham is being addressed by the rich man, who also died, and lifted up his eyes from hell being tormented in flames. According to you these individuals are suppose to be dead, both soul and body. So can you explain what is taking place here? Is Jesus making this up to illustrate something? If so, what is He illustrating? You can't avoid this passage of scripture because it's part of the whole counsel of God that we derive our understanding from. If you can't explain this in relationship to death and what happened to Abraham and others that died, then you have to reconsider your doctrine and examine it more carefully because it is very important to know the truth.

Luke 16 is a parable, the point of which is that even though a man was raised from the dead, people would still not believe. See v30, 31

 

[Laodicea]

This text is clear, tells us what happens
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Only Born again people have a living spirit. That is the part of us that must be born again. Lost people have souls even in Hell. The Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is proof that both the wicked and just live on after death. I believe their is much proof that our soul lives even without the body. What part of sinners goes to Hell? They don't have a spirit! So it must be their souls.

 

[superdave5221]

This is a subject in which it is not essential to believe one way or another as far as salvation is concerned.

What is more concerning is the view, expressed in one of the previous postings that Jesus is not God, or that he is not eternal.

What I mean by eternal here is without beginning or ending, therefore not created but existing before creation and transcendent to it.

Jesus Christ existed before time, and will always exist. Jesus' human body died, but not His soul. If his soul died on that cross, then He is not eternal, and he is not God.

That someone who calls themselves a Christian would say that Jesus has not always existed is very troubling.

 

[Red33]

Luke 16 is a parable, the point of which is that even though a man was raised from the dead, people would still not believe. See v30, 31

So a parable has no truth or eternal reality and Abraham was just randomly selected by name for the parable? Are you telling us that Abraham and the beggar Lazarus were not real individuals in this parable set on the other side of the great gulf that was fixed between the rich man and Lazarus? What you are really telling us is that the rich man was never really in hell being tormented in the flames and Abraham and the beggar were never really on the other side of the great gulf that was fixed. According to you they were still dead and in the grave, neither being in heaven or hell. You are saying that Christ used a setting that had no basis or reality in truth to illustrate the truth that people would not believe, even though one be raised from the dead. So Jesus just made up the details of the parable that were not true and did not really exist to express the truth. I don't think for a minute that believers are that gullible or naive to believe that God has to resort to non-truth to illustrate and communicate the truth. Sir, you have a long way to go before you can begin to grasp and understand God's eternal realities.

You probably don't even believe that Elijah was taken up in a chariot of fire in a whirlwind up to heaven in (2Kgs 2:11)?

 

[Laodicea]

Only Born again people have a living spirit. That is the part of us that must be born again. Lost people have souls even in Hell. The Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is proof that both the wicked and just live on after death. I believe their is much proof that our soul lives even without the body. What part of sinners goes to Hell? They don't have a spirit! So it must be their souls.

The rich man and Lazarus was a parable, its intent was not to teach the state of the dead. We do not have an eternal soul. Only God is eternal
1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[Red33]

This is a subject in which it is not essential to believe one way or another as far as salvation is concerned.

What is more concerning is the view, expressed in one of the previous postings that Jesus is not God, or that he is not eternal.

What I mean by eternal here is without beginning or ending, therefore not created but existing before creation and transcendent to it.

Jesus Christ existed before time, and will always exist. Jesus' human body died, but not His soul. If his soul died on that cross, then He is not eternal, and he is not God.

That someone who calls themselves a Christian would say that Jesus has not always existed is very troubling.

Every word of God and every single scripture is relevant and essential in all things, because every word is sacred and eternal and will never pass away.

 

[shroom2]

So a parable has no truth or eternal reality and Abraham was just randomly selected by name for the parable? Are you telling us that Abraham and the beggar Lazarus were not real individuals in this parable set on the other side of the great gulf that was fixed between the rich man and Lazarus? What you are really telling us is that the rich man was never really in hell being tormented in the flames and Abraham and the beggar were never really on the other side of the great gulf that was fixed. According to you they were still dead and in the grave, neither being in heaven or hell. You are saying that Christ used a setting that had no basis or reality in truth to illustrate the truth that people would not believe, even though one be raised from the dead. So Jesus just made up the details of the parable that were not true and did not really exist to express the truth. I don't think for a minute that believers are that gullible or naive to believe that God has to resort to non-truth to illustrate and communicate the truth. Sir, you have a long way to go before you can begin to grasp and understand God's eternal realities.

You probably don't even believe that Elijah was taken up in a chariot of fire in a whirlwind up to heaven in (2Kgs 2:11)?

The bible teaches that all men die (Heb 9:27). It says there is no one in heaven except for Jesus Christ (John 3:13). If Elijah went to heaven before Christ paid the price for sin, then any man could get to heaven without Christ, and Christ's ultimate sacrifice was not necessary. Elijah was carried into the sky to signify the transfer of power to Elisha. The same place the birds of "heaven" fly. He was transported, much as Phillip was transported in Acts 8:39.

I know this is contrary to traditional orthodox Christian thinking, but it's the truth. Dead people are dead, and will remain dead until one of the upcoming resurrections. If we die before Christ returns, our hope is the coming resurrection. Death is an enemy. It is not a "crossing over".

 

[serpentslayer]

Then our sins are not paid for.

"The wages of sin is death".


That is a religious concept, and is not true. The soul is not eternal. Soul is simply that which gives life to the body.


Jesus Christ completely died on the cross. Three days later God, his Father, raised him from the dead.


No, Jesus was dead for three days and three nights. Then after he was raised, he went and heralded to the demons being held captive that they failed in their mission to stop the Christ. Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, and the faithful are all still dead, awaiting the resurrection of the just, which will happen after armageddon, when Christ is setting up the millennial kingdom.

If the 'soul is simply that which gives life to the body', then how does David say that the Lord will
not leave his soul in hell (Ps16:10)? You understand neither the creation of Adam, nor the Power of
Christ, for He is God.

 

[babyboyblue]

You are correct. Jesus was 100% man, (as well as 100% God), and died as a man. If he died as a man, and his soul died with him, then how did he take it back up again? Or, as has been suggested, did Jesus have two souls? I would suggest some research on the ecumenical councils findings on the nature of God and the nature of The Trinity before believing that.

To ask how a dead (man) Jesus can resurrect Himself is like asking "Where did God come from?" It's the mystery of Godliness. Jesus as God, walked willingly as a Man. At any time he could've revealed His true form and destroyed all around him. At any time He could've called legion of Angels out of Heaven and have them do His bidding. On numerous occasions He called Himself God. Forgiving sins and healing people and walking on water things only God can do or enable. He said no one takes His but that he lays it down, signifying that if He chose not to lay down His life it would be impossible for anyone to kill Him. But He as God subdued His divinity to live like a man, to feel as man feels, to sweat as man sweats, to work as man works and to cry as man cries.

When he died on the cross, it was the 100% man that died. His divinity was very much alive and well. Can God die? Psalm 90:2 Say He is from Everlasting to Everlasting.

I believe Jesus literally meant what He said: He laid down His life and He Raised Himself from the dead.