Serious Questions about the Trinity

[mpaper345]

The truth is no matter how you look at it,there cannot be a trinity,because to say 3 persons but one God would be saying three gods.

The Bible says one God,and that is what it means one God,which the Bible says one God,and attributes only the Father as that one God,with no mention of Son,and Holy Spirit,which it does not need to mention them because there is only one God.

There is only one God,the Father,and one visible manifestation of God the Father to His saints,the Lord Jesus Christ,which Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.

And if you say the 3 persons make up one God,and they are equal,would be to say as they stand alone individual,one person,that they are only a third of a god,because it takes all 3 to make one God.

Then you have reduced each person's godhood to being a minor god,and as individual,not all powerful,not all knowing,not all omniscient,but then that contradicts that Christ is the fulness of the Godhead,all the attributes of God in a bodily manifestation.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,the Son,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,because God cannot be separated,which God is in all and through all.

There is only one God,an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit,with no distinction of persons,and whatever name He calls Himself,or whatever title He has,He is still one God,and it is one God that did it all,created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.

The truth is there is only one God a Holy Spirit,for before God created anything,He is a Holy Spirit.

Father is a title for God a Holy Spirit.

The Son is the man Christ Jesus.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the deep in creation,and Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and it is the Spirit that dwells in us.

It is the Holy Spirit that created all things,that came in flesh,and that dwells in us.

Jesus is Jehovah in a bodily manifestation.Jehovah means physical deliverance,and Jesus means spiritual deliverance.

The Bible says Jesus created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in us.

If Jesus created all things then how can He not be our Father,and how would the Father be our Father and not Jesus,if Jesus created all things.

Jesus told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said ask Him,and He will do it.

Which means that the disciples are not to ask the Son,the man Christ Jesus,anything to go to the Father about,but they go to Jesus as the Father.

The Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,the Father,but in another scripture Jesus will present it to Himself.

Baptize in the name,but it is Jesus that created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.

It seems like Jesus was telling Him baptize in His name,so they will not make a trinity out of the titles.

It seems like Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,are the 3 relationships God has with His people,designated by titles so we can identify the relationships,and not 3 persons.

Father-God is our parent.

Son-the visible relationship of the invisible God to the saints.

Holy Spirit-the invisible relationship of God to the saints.

But it is one God doing it all with no distinction of persons.

Created all things,manifest all His attributes to the Son,the man Christ Jesus,dwells in the saints.

There is more you can say,but there is no trinity,for there is too much evidence against it in the Bible.

 

[pentecostal]

You present an interesting quandary for yourself. According to you there is only one God with only one Divine person, correct? So it logically follows that if Jesus is God and if God is only one Divine person while Jesus was on Earth God was not in Heaven, and therefore there was no one to hear his prayers. So that means you have to either deny that Jesus was Divine, admit that there is more than one Divine person, or come up with some convoluted explanation to explain how God can be in Heaven and simultaneously fully incarnate in the flesh as Jesus.

no . firstly i do not believe there is one divinve person because God is not a person, a divine being would be better,

know jesus is omnipresent do you know what that means, it means he is everywhere so even though he was walking on earth he was still the almighty God in heaven ok

this is showing that you are not knowledgeable in the word of God jesus is divine (i am not a unitarian)
and he is the father in the flesh.

rememmber he is omnipresent

 

[SantoSubito]

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?


God is full of heaven and earth.

Still the quandary is unanswered as Jesus is God incarnate according to the NT meaning it is the complete Divinity in human form. An infinite God poured into finite flesh on a finite Earth. Trinitarinism doesn't have this problem as Jesus was one of the three Divine persons of the Trinity incarnate in the flesh, oneness however has no way to answer this problem short of denying that Jesus is God.

 

[SantoSubito]

no . firstly i do not believe there is one divinve person because God is not a person, a divine being would be better,

know jesus is omnipresent do you know what that means, it means he is everywhere so even though he was walking on earth he was still the almighty God in heaven ok

this is showing that you are not knowledgeable in the word of God jesus is divine (i am not a unitarian)
and he is the father in the flesh.

rememmber he is omnipresent

Then only a part of God was made flesh. God is omnipresent but Jesus was limited in what he could do on Earth because he was incarnate in the flesh. As Colossians 2:9 says: "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"

The "fullness" all of God not part in Heaven and part on Earth, all of God in the flesh on Earth.

 

[pentecostal]

Still the quandary is unanswered as Jesus is God incarnate according to the NT meaning it is the complete Divinity in human form. An infinite God poured into finite flesh on a finite Earth. Trinitarinism doesn't have this problem as Jesus was one of the three Divine persons of the Trinity incarnate in the flesh, oneness however has no way to answer this problem short of denying that Jesus is God.

the trinity is a belief in three Gods

i don't remember Deuteronomy 6:4 saying hear o Israel the lord our God is three Gods.

um have you read 1 timothy 3:16 where it says that God was manifest in the flesh


we have no problem in answering anything because our answers are in the bible. the bible is all about the oneness of God not the triune God. when i get to heaven i am not Going to see three persons but only one who is the king of all kings.

Paul said don't be fouled by man made theology. accept Jesus and get baptized in his name for the forgiveness of your sins, acts 2:38

 

[HearOhIsreal]

Still the quandary is unanswered as Jesus is God incarnate according to the NT meaning it is the complete Divinity in human form. An infinite God poured into finite flesh on a finite Earth. Trinitarinism doesn't have this problem as Jesus was one of the three Divine persons of the Trinity incarnate in the flesh, oneness however has no way to answer this problem short of denying that Jesus is God.

Finite flesh? So you believe Jesus had earthy nature? Jesus is The Word made flesh. The Word is divine and heavenly. Jesus has heavenly flesh. His flesh is the bread from heaven.

 

[SantoSubito]

the trinity is a belief in three Gods

i don't remember Deuteronomy 6:4 saying hear o Israel the lord our God is three Gods.

um have you read 1 timothy 3:16 where it says that God was manifest in the flesh


we have no problem in answering anything because our answers are in the bible. the bible is all about the oneness of God not the triune God. when i get to heaven i am not Going to see three persons but only one who is the king of all kings.

Paul said don't be fouled by man made theology. accept Jesus and get baptized in his name for the forgiveness of your sins, acts 2:38

The Trinity isn't three Gods. But thanks I can know conclude that you don't have an answer for the question, and by the way if you didn't notice I took my wording and concepts that I used to phrase my question directly from scripture. The Trinity answers the question, oneness has yet to.

 

[pentecostal]

The Trinity isn't three Gods. But thanks I can know conclude that you don't have an answer for the question, and by the way if you didn't notice I took my wording and concepts that I used to phrase my question directly from scripture. The Trinity answers the question, oneness has yet to.

yeah thats what you think. just keep believing in that false man made blasphemous teaching of the trinity and you will go nowhere

we that believe in the oneness of God teach the teachings that where given to the apostles by Jesus. i that time there was no trinity and Jesus did not teach such a thing but only that he was the great God manifest in the flesh.

you remind
me of those jews that also did not believe in the lord which later gave jesus in and traded him for a thief

 

[SantoSubito]

Finite flesh? So you believe Jesus had earthy nature? Jesus is The Word made flesh. The Word is divine and heavenly. Jesus has heavenly flesh. His flesh is the bread from heaven.

Before his Resurrection he had finite human flesh, blood and bone just like us. As it says in Hebrews 2:17: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren (like us), that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

and Hebrews 4:15; "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

and Hebrews 2:14: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--"

Oneness still leaves the question I posed unanswered.

 

[SantoSubito]

yeah thats what you think. just keep believing in that false man made blasphemous teaching of the trinity and you will go nowhere

we that believe in the oneness of God teach the teachings that where given to the apostles by Jesus. i that time there was no trinity and Jesus did not teach such a thing but only that he was the great God manifest in the flesh.

you remind
me of those jews that also did not believe in the lord which later gave jesus in and traded him for a thief

If Oneness is truly the doctrine of God it could answer the simple question I put forth from my untrained mind. The Trinity despite how "blasphemous" you think it is, answers the question. I'll forgive you for your last comment because I know your just lashing out because you don't have an answer for the question that fits the Oneness model. The only possible way I can see for you to answer the question and not appeal to another Divine person is to deny that Jesus is God, which would violate your own model and scripture.

Once again if your model is true it can answer my question, a question drawn from the pages of Holy Writ itself, sufficiently.

 

[shroom2]

you have totally taken my questions out of context and not read my answers that's why you do not understand.

I have read your answers and I do understand. I believe you are wrong in what you are promoting.

 

[HearOhIsreal]

Before his Resurrection he had finite human flesh, blood and bone just like us. As it says in Hebrews 2:17: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren (like us), that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

and Hebrews 4:15; "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

and Hebrews 2:14: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--"

Oneness still leaves the question I posed unanswered.

To say that he shared in our corruptible flesh and blood is blasphemy since the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in him. He dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory. What glory? Certainly not human glory. Christ had no lusts of the flesh, and is holy by nature. He is the perfect lamb with no blemish, the ultimate sacrifice.

 

[SantoSubito]

To say that he shared in our corruptible flesh and blood is blasphemy since the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in him. He dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory. What glory? Certainly not human glory. Christ had no lusts of the flesh, and is holy by nature. He is the perfect lamb with no blemish, the ultimate sacrifice.

Indeed he was like us in every way but sin. However, on Earth he was incarnate in the same kind of flesh that you and I have, not incorruptible flesh, because then he would not be like us. If Christ was cut while on Earth he would bleed, if he drank bad wine, he would vomit, and like us he was tempted but unlike us he did not fall nor sin. Thats what the Bible says, not that Christ came in incorruptible flesh, but that he became like us in every way but sin, corruptible flesh and all.

Besides if his flesh was incorruptible it could not taste death.

 

[HearOhIsreal]

Indeed he was like us in every way but sin. However, on Earth he was incarnate in the same kind of flesh that you and I have, not incorruptible flesh, because then he would not be like us. If Christ was cut while on Earth he would bleed, if he drank bad wine, he would vomit, and like us he was tempted but unlike us he did not fall nor sin. Thats what the Bible says, not that Christ came in incorruptible flesh, but that he became like us in every way but sin, corruptible flesh and all.

Besides if his flesh was incorruptible it could not taste death.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Also, if He had our flesh, how was He able to transfigure before the eyes of the apostles?

If He shared our flesh, His flesh would have returned to dust just like ours, but it didn't. The body of Jesus was no where to be found. It is written that Christ never changes. He is the same today, tomorrow, and forever. After the resurrection, He returned to the apostles just like He was before the resurrection.

 

[SantoSubito]

Also, if He had our flesh, how was He able to transfigure before the eyes of the apostles?

He is God and had power even in his incarnation.

If He shared our flesh, His flesh would have returned to dust just like ours, but it didn't. The body of Jesus was no where to be found. It is written that Christ never changes. He is the same today, tomorrow, and forever. After the resurrection, He returned to the apostles just like He was before the resurrection.

He is the first fruits of the Resurrection, something we will all experience at the Last Day and that is why he did not return to dust like we do. As it says in 1 Corinthians 15:23 "But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

and in 1 Corinthians 15:20: "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

In fact the whole thing that makes Christ's death special and the thing Paul focused on heavily is that Christ was like us in every way but sin; subject to our afflictions, our temptations, our bodily needs. That is what Paul was driving home in Hebrews. Incorruptible flesh has no need of food, but Christ ate, incorruptible flesh does not thirst, but Christ did thirst, Incorruptible flesh does not bleed, yet Christ bled, incorruptible flesh does not die, but yet Christ died.

Theres no way to get around what the Epistle to the Hebrews said on the matter, Christ took on our humanity and became like us in all ways but sin.

 

[theBibleisawsome]

Incorruptible Flesh means a flesh without sin its incorupted its not like ours our flesh has sin thats why we sin and give into temptation when Jesus was tempted he didn't give into the sin because he has no sin because he has incorruptible Flesh just because Jesus ate food does not mean he has sinful Flesh how is eating a sin Jesus didn't have a sinful Flesh he has a sinless Flesh not like ours God bless u

 

[prophecyman]

WHICH IS,WHICH WAS,AND IS TO COME... The Almighty. All the fulness of the Godhead as taught by the Apostle Paul dwelt (lived) in him (Christ). And he is the head of all things, for all power in heaven and earth is given to him. He created the world and all that dwell therein, nothing was made that was made without him, he came to his own and his own knew him not. All things were created for him and by him! He is El-Olam, El- Shadai, the Almighty and great eternal God which lived and was enbodied in the Son, the Father and the Son are one, the invisible God made visible in the face of Jesus.

Jesus is no longer flesh, but has been glorified, his body changed to the glory of the Father, and he is the manifested image of the invisible God which all the fulness yet dwells. You see Jesus, You see the Father! For the Father is Spirit and is invisible, but we see Jesus who is the express image of his person.

 

[SantoSubito]

Incorruptible Flesh means a flesh without sin its incorupted its not like ours our flesh has sin thats why we sin and give into temptation when Jesus was tempted he didn't give into the sin because he has no sin because he has incorruptible Flesh just because Jesus ate food does not mean he has sinful Flesh how is eating a sin Jesus didn't have a sinful Flesh he has a sinless Flesh not like ours God bless u

Your not getting it. Jesus didn't have some supernatural special body while on Earth, he had the same kind of body that me and you have. The Bible even says he took on all things like unto his brethren (us) Hebrews 2:17: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren" and who was tempted as we are Hebrews 4:15; "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." and who shared in our same flesh and blood humanity Hebrews 2:14: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--"

Christ was born with the same flesh we have with the same ability to sin that we have, but he didn't sin, and that is waht makes his death an acceptable and extraordinary sacrifice.

 

[SantoSubito]

Incorruptible Flesh means a flesh without sin its incorupted its not like ours our flesh has sin thats why we sin and give into temptation when Jesus was tempted he didn't give into the sin because he has no sin because he has incorruptible Flesh just because Jesus ate food does not mean he has sinful Flesh how is eating a sin Jesus didn't have a sinful Flesh he has a sinless Flesh not like ours God bless u

Also I should have said this but forgot to. Saying Jesus had corruptible flesh does not imply that Jesus had sin it is saying that Jesus had flesh that just like ours is subject to the same corruption of nature from Adam's sin. Like sickness, disease, sinful impulses, etc.

 

[HearOhIsreal]

Your not getting it. Jesus didn't have some supernatural special body while on Earth, he had the same kind of body that me and you have. The Bible even says he took on all things like unto his brethren (us) Hebrews 2:17: "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren" and who was tempted as we are Hebrews 4:15; "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." and who shared in our same flesh and blood humanity Hebrews 2:14: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--"

Christ was born with the same flesh we have with the same ability to sin that we have, but he didn't sin, and that is waht makes his death an acceptable and extraordinary sacrifice.

John 5:19

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

God The Father is divine, and cannot sin. It wasn't that Jesus didn't sin, it is that he couldn't sin. Jesus is made up of Word and Holy Spirit, which was prepared in the womb of the Virgin Mary. He did not have an earthly father nor did He take Mary's natural seed. He was born without taking the seed of an earthly mother and father but truly in the likeness of Melchizedek.



Hebrews 7:26-27


26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.



Christ submitted only to the Father's will. He cannot sin by nature, for He is holy. The experiences of Jesus including His temptations are the result of the fulfillment of prophecies for reconciliation and propitiation for our sins. It is impossible for corruptible flesh and blood to not sin. That is why we must die to the old man [corruption] and put on incorruption through Christ.




1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.