RAPTURE, PRE OR POST?
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The way I understand it in Thessalonians and 1 Corinthians there are still people alive together with the dead; therefore it is not considered a true resurrection because it involves people that are alive with no need to be resurrected. These will return with Christ after the 1000 years then. . . the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This - the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished - is the first resurrection - the resurrection of the just.
P
You might have the gumption to take away from Gods word, and remove the word resurrection from that verse to suit your doctrine.
But I fear the Lord too much to remove words from verses, and get involved in such nonsenses.
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it israised in incorruption
corruption is raised in incorruption: that puts the resurrection at the gathering/rapture
15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shallall be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal mustput on immortality.54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and thismortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
God’s word is God’s word, and why do you need to change it, so you can keep the tradition of men and your own doctrine.
Mark7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
But I fear the Lord too much to remove words from verses, and get involved in such nonsenses.
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it israised in incorruption
corruption is raised in incorruption: that puts the resurrection at the gathering/rapture
15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shallall be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal mustput on immortality.54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and thismortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
God’s word is God’s word, and why do you need to change it, so you can keep the tradition of men and your own doctrine.
Mark7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
P
it is not considered a true resurrection because there are live people there.
it is not considered a true resurrection because it’s just for the dead
it is not considered a true resurrection because you have a dead body.
What about the Christians in the past that don’t have a dead body lift, but just dust or ashes?
Is it so hard for you to think God can resurrect the dust left, dead flesh, and the living at the same time.
To say the rapture is not a true resurrection in nonsenses
corruption; it is raised in incorruption, whether it be dust of Christians, dead flesh of Christians or the living Christians.
And to say rapture is not a true resurrection is to change the word of God, and to take away from the word of God because it says
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption
it is not considered a true resurrection because it’s just for the dead
it is not considered a true resurrection because you have a dead body.
What about the Christians in the past that don’t have a dead body lift, but just dust or ashes?
Is it so hard for you to think God can resurrect the dust left, dead flesh, and the living at the same time.
To say the rapture is not a true resurrection in nonsenses
corruption; it is raised in incorruption, whether it be dust of Christians, dead flesh of Christians or the living Christians.
And to say rapture is not a true resurrection is to change the word of God, and to take away from the word of God because it says
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption
Some of what you are saying I never said or implied. Resurrection means to raise from the dead - you cannot raise a live person from the dead so to agree with you, I can only say that it is a partial resurrection. And yes I believe that God can raise the dead regardless of how long they have been in the grave. That's all I have to say on the matter. I don't need someone to degrade me because of what I believe.
I have been to God many times for many things and he has always been there for me. I thank God that although you have a different view; he has helped me not to resort to name calling or judging you for your differences. Thanks.
In Christ. . . . .
I have been to God many times for many things and he has always been there for me. I thank God that although you have a different view; he has helped me not to resort to name calling or judging you for your differences. Thanks.
In Christ. . . . .
P
What names did I call you?
How am I degrading you?
You are just making that up.
You are trying to teach me that the rapture/gathering is not the resurrection.
You are trying to teach me that when we put of corruption and are raised in incorruption, when we get are new bodies is not the resurrection.
You are trying to teach me that this verse is not a true resurrection.
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption
And then you want me to stand by and do nothing.
One of my jobs as a Christian is to
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
I attack you doctrine that’s one of my jobs as a Christian, to pull down strong holds, and to expose the teach which is you.
Most doctrines it doesn’t matter so much, but the pre-tribulation doctrine is evil, dangerous, and extremely misleading, and will cause Christians harm in the latter days
You are offended because I have exposed your doctrine as nonsense, so you aqueous me of name calling and degrading you, because that’s you best line of defence. because you don’t have a bible verse to stand upon, showing that the gathering/ rapture in not the resurrection.
How am I degrading you?
You are just making that up.
You are trying to teach me that the rapture/gathering is not the resurrection.
You are trying to teach me that when we put of corruption and are raised in incorruption, when we get are new bodies is not the resurrection.
You are trying to teach me that this verse is not a true resurrection.
1Cor 7:15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption
And then you want me to stand by and do nothing.
One of my jobs as a Christian is to
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
I attack you doctrine that’s one of my jobs as a Christian, to pull down strong holds, and to expose the teach which is you.
Most doctrines it doesn’t matter so much, but the pre-tribulation doctrine is evil, dangerous, and extremely misleading, and will cause Christians harm in the latter days
You are offended because I have exposed your doctrine as nonsense, so you aqueous me of name calling and degrading you, because that’s you best line of defence. because you don’t have a bible verse to stand upon, showing that the gathering/ rapture in not the resurrection.
John 11
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Sound familiar peterT and peacefulbeliever? Aren't both of you looking to the future to be saved by the Lord, Raptured?
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Present tense. I am the resurrection. He that believes, though he were dead, yet he shall live. Present tense, right now.
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Until you are born of the Spirit there is no life in you. This is the resurrection. This is the rapture you are looking into the future for. Being born again of the Spirit.
There is no power in Jesus saving people in the past. That's the past. There is no power in Jesus saving people in the future. This is just indefinite delay of faith. This is just faith in your understanding of what is or is not going to happen.
In the present, right now, there IS power in Jesus who is saving people.
You've quoted so much scripture and you don't understand any of it.
23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Sound familiar peterT and peacefulbeliever? Aren't both of you looking to the future to be saved by the Lord, Raptured?
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Present tense. I am the resurrection. He that believes, though he were dead, yet he shall live. Present tense, right now.
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Until you are born of the Spirit there is no life in you. This is the resurrection. This is the rapture you are looking into the future for. Being born again of the Spirit.
There is no power in Jesus saving people in the past. That's the past. There is no power in Jesus saving people in the future. This is just indefinite delay of faith. This is just faith in your understanding of what is or is not going to happen.
In the present, right now, there IS power in Jesus who is saving people.
You've quoted so much scripture and you don't understand any of it.
Okay - just insinuating rebellion and stubbornness.
No, I never said that verse 42 was not a resurrection. Also in that section it says -" We shall not all sleep (die) but we shall all be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." So I wasn't going by that one verse when I said that a resurrection is a the raising of the dead. This section and the account in Thessalonians includes people that are alive.
One of my jobs as a Christian is to
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 CorinthiIans 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
I apologize then for continuing in this thread. I thought we were discussing our beliefs. I believe in the pre-trib; you do not. I could have turned around and attacked your doctrine but I didn't because I believe you have a right to your belief system just as I do. I do not see where this is "extremely dangerous" for anyone's salvation - and if there isn't a pre-trib then we will just go through the tribulation period.
No, I am not offended. I only know that the resurrection only refers to those that are dead and the verses I used include those that are alive. At the least it would be considered a partial resurrection for some are dead but some are alive.
No, I never said that verse 42 was not a resurrection. Also in that section it says -" We shall not all sleep (die) but we shall all be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." So I wasn't going by that one verse when I said that a resurrection is a the raising of the dead. This section and the account in Thessalonians includes people that are alive.
One of my jobs as a Christian is to
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 CorinthiIans 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
I apologize then for continuing in this thread. I thought we were discussing our beliefs. I believe in the pre-trib; you do not. I could have turned around and attacked your doctrine but I didn't because I believe you have a right to your belief system just as I do. I do not see where this is "extremely dangerous" for anyone's salvation - and if there isn't a pre-trib then we will just go through the tribulation period.
No, I am not offended. I only know that the resurrection only refers to those that are dead and the verses I used include those that are alive. At the least it would be considered a partial resurrection for some are dead but some are alive.
P
I was quoting a Bible verses, how is that calling names and degrading you?
You said it was not a true resurrection. And now it is?
We have discussed our beliefs, and now I am rooting out false doctrine which is perfectly lawful for me to do according to this website and according to the Bible.
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 CorinthiIans 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds..
Yes go through the tribulation period, and some Christians that are not that strong in the word will thing God has left them behind, shaking their faith.
And some will think if the pre-trib was not right then maybe the Bible is not right.
It can shake one’s faith to teach such doctrine as a pre-trib coming.
You might not think that’s important but I do.
So what’s your point, if that is the resurrection then you have 3 resurrections in your doctrine
What are you apologizing for, you have a chance to preach the gospel here and shine for the Lord if you were right, which you are not.
This website gives us the freedom to speak are minds and to preach the gospel to other Christians, and say what the Lord as put on are hearts. Which is probably one of the only places we can do so, without being thrown out being thrown out of church.
Yes it’s a tuff website, it’s for the brave hearted Christian . If it’s too hot in the kitchen for you then get out, but I suggest you stay and stop complaining about conversations that don’t go your way.
Go ahead and attack my doctrine, I love the battle
You said it was not a true resurrection. And now it is?
We have discussed our beliefs, and now I am rooting out false doctrine which is perfectly lawful for me to do according to this website and according to the Bible.
Jeremiah10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
2 CorinthiIans 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds..
Yes go through the tribulation period, and some Christians that are not that strong in the word will thing God has left them behind, shaking their faith.
And some will think if the pre-trib was not right then maybe the Bible is not right.
It can shake one’s faith to teach such doctrine as a pre-trib coming.
You might not think that’s important but I do.
So what’s your point, if that is the resurrection then you have 3 resurrections in your doctrine
What are you apologizing for, you have a chance to preach the gospel here and shine for the Lord if you were right, which you are not.
This website gives us the freedom to speak are minds and to preach the gospel to other Christians, and say what the Lord as put on are hearts. Which is probably one of the only places we can do so, without being thrown out being thrown out of church.
Yes it’s a tuff website, it’s for the brave hearted Christian . If it’s too hot in the kitchen for you then get out, but I suggest you stay and stop complaining about conversations that don’t go your way.
Go ahead and attack my doctrine, I love the battle
Okay
Do you read everything or do you just scan what I post?
I am not responsible for anyone's faith in God - they either have faith or not. If by saying that I believe born again believers don't go through the tribulation I shake that person's faith - their weakness is not my fault!
I to like posting on Christian websites - it strengthens me and encourages more study. I have been on tougher websites. I believe that I have said all that I can say on the matter - Rapture -pre or post? I believe the rapture is pre. . . . .
Thanks.
Do you read everything or do you just scan what I post?
I am not responsible for anyone's faith in God - they either have faith or not. If by saying that I believe born again believers don't go through the tribulation I shake that person's faith - their weakness is not my fault!
I to like posting on Christian websites - it strengthens me and encourages more study. I have been on tougher websites. I believe that I have said all that I can say on the matter - Rapture -pre or post? I believe the rapture is pre. . . . .
Thanks.
P
Am I my brother's keeper?
Cain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their fellows/ brothers/sisters
The Christian answer would be yes.
Not his keeper in that you hold him prisoner, but his keeper in that you look out for him (or her) and help them whenever you can.
Luke12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Cain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their fellows/ brothers/sisters
The Christian answer would be yes.
Not his keeper in that you hold him prisoner, but his keeper in that you look out for him (or her) and help them whenever you can.
Luke12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
P
lovest thou me, Feed my sheep.
lovest thou me, Feed my sheep
lovest thou me, Feed my sheep
Wops… you are partly responsible for their faith.
Romans 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And they are not hearing the word of God from you pre-tribulation teaching Christians.
Because Matt24 is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Big parts of the book of Revelation is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Big parts of the book of Daniel is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Bible future concerning end time events is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Faith doesn’t grow by hearing that nonsense. It grows by hearing the word of God
lovest thou me, Feed my sheep
lovest thou me, Feed my sheep
Wops… you are partly responsible for their faith.
Romans 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And they are not hearing the word of God from you pre-tribulation teaching Christians.
Because Matt24 is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Big parts of the book of Revelation is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Big parts of the book of Daniel is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Bible future concerning end time events is not relevant to their walk with the lord.
Faith doesn’t grow by hearing that nonsense. It grows by hearing the word of God
If you've been saved then your new body has already been resurrected.
There's no future resurrection. The resurrection is right now.
The only reason for a future resurrection is if you haven't been born of the Spirit yet. If you haven't been born of the spirit you aren't saved yet.
John 3
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
P
Wow, did you get a body like unto Jesus’s new body?
I don’t know about you, but I am getting a body fashioned like unto his glorious body.
But if you got your body already then good look with that.
Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Not sure what you are getting at, but I think you are saying that the resurrection is already past.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
I think you are trying to overthrow the faith of some with your nonsense doctrine .
